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General Discussion  » POLL: Should races have major impact on classes?

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40 posts found
  DamonVile

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

7/16/13 2:40:09 PM#21
I don't like games where every warrior is an oger and every mage is an elf, every thief a gnome or halfling. Giving racial abilities is fine but when they make a race the obvious best choice for a class it means far too many people walking around all looking/being the same character.
  theAsna

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/09
Posts: 303

7/16/13 2:50:45 PM#22

 

The poll is too much black & white.

 

In the end it comes down to the campaign setting and lore. There is often a certain rationale behind class and race restrictions (e.g. a certain class doesn't fit into the "lifestyle" of a certain race). In P&P you can handle this in a more flexible way. The Dungeon Master may allow exceptions as he sees fit. But the player has better come up with a reasonable explanation/background story.

 

In a single player game it is sort of an exception (since only one player is interacting with the game world).

 

In an MMO things look different. People will base their class and race choices on other criteria. So it can happen if you allow an "exotic combination" it might end up a popular combination (e.g. because it has advantages in PvP or PvE).

  Bamboozled

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/21/13
Posts: 29

7/16/13 2:51:13 PM#23

I vote yes, with the caveat that it needs to be balanced.

 

Your example of the Ogre vs the Halfling is right on. You balance the ability to withstand a hit vs the ability to avoid it. Which lends itself better to other classes, but can be applied to a warrior and create an "avoidance tank" like the warrior class in Tera.

 

I think that races lend to the ability to create cultures for the specific race, these cultures can be warlike, tribal, traders, nomads, smugglers, who knows. But it allows for more stories and RP opportunities, especially when dealing with other races.

 

Your class is your profession, your race is your history and how you are perceived by the world.

“He felt that his whole life was some kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.”

- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

7/16/13 2:55:50 PM#24
Originally posted by Bamboozled

Your class is your profession, your race is your history and how you are perceived by the world.

As long as you're not operating alterations to either, at will, as a profit center (and a Big one).

 

Is Smed historically capable of resisting the lure of easy cash?

Yes
No
LOL
(login to vote)

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Vidir

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/14/04
Posts: 966

7/16/13 2:59:22 PM#25
I vote no since I want to be able to play any class but I could not play a character looking like a cow , lizard or something.
  Bamboozled

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/21/13
Posts: 29

7/16/13 3:02:38 PM#26
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by Bamboozled

Your class is your profession, your race is your history and how you are perceived by the world.

As long as you're not operating alterations to either, at will, as a profit center (and a Big one).

 

Lol, Your poll is awesome. Here is me hoping that won't be the case.

“He felt that his whole life was some kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.”

- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

7/16/13 3:07:44 PM#27
Originally posted by Bamboozled

Lol, Your poll is awesome. Here is me hoping that won't be the case.

Not going to climb on the predictive soapbox...but we are talking F2P, right? Ignoring potential profit centers isn't something F2P titles are historically good at.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Xthos

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2651

7/16/13 3:13:12 PM#28
Originally posted by Lorska

I vote yes, so long as long as there wasn't a clear winner that all min-maxers would play 100% of the time. 

 

I'm for there being distinct differences between different races playing the same class, but not for one to be head and shoulders better than it than the rest. 

 

See this is where we both read this differently, if it is a 'major' impact, then it would be head and shoulders better.  So I voted no, even though I think it should have some advantages, but not to where it has to be the choice.

 

The biggest race/class thing I remember form EQ was Ogre Warriors, they were preferred and some say needed for certain encounters because they were immune to frontal stun I think it was, been a while, but I believe that was the case.  So when this became a big deal, I knew people that had warriors and started new ones, so they could be the main tank all the time for their guilds.  Generally in EQ, it was the way it should be, you could make choices that weren't optimal, but make it work and it wasn't a huge deal (to some it was, as people were min/maxing everything, but generally it wasn't).

 

 

So yes, I want differences and some uniqueness to each race, but I also don't want people to be shunned for trying to have a non-optimal choice either.

 

  Sinaku

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 481

7/16/13 3:15:49 PM#29

I vote yes, I know most people are worried "well i really want to be this race and this class but it isn't the "best" choice for that class :(" everything has its ups and downs with stuff like this and in the end it all comes down to skill (and lets be honest some good gear).

  sunshadow21

Novice Member

Joined: 8/15/04
Posts: 355

7/16/13 3:16:12 PM#30
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by Gallus85

I voted no because you worded it incorrectly.

I think race should have a nice impact on how the class plays, but an "Ogre warrior should not be BETTER than other races".  It should be Different from other races.

So maybe an Ogre warrior hits a little harder, has immunity or resistance to getting stunned/knocked down.....

But maybe a Gnome warrior runs faster in combat, has a chance to avoid being hit all together, etc.

So race should* play a major role in how that class  ends up playing, but Better is not the word I'd use.

Different, but balanced would be better wordage.

Yeah I agree with this. Small races should get better avoidance, big races more resistance / health. Adding slightly modified spells for different races is always cool too, like what they did in Vanguard and in vanilla WoW.

I tend to agree with this view, though I'm not sure that the precise wordage makes much difference if the concept is there. This reminds me of FFXI; there was a big difference in how you played, what weapon you ultimately used, etc., if you played a taru vs a human. You could still play all classes on all races, but there was no single approach that worked best in all situations, and some combinations were certainly bigger challenges than others, adding to the depth of the game in my opinion. I really didn't care for how EQ implemented it; they had the right concept, but personally I think they need to let the player choose the level of challenge. Flat out telling a player no is something that needs to be done carefully, and rarely when it comes to base character creation; making it clear that certain combos are much, much harder, and letting the player make the ultimate choice, is a far better way to go.

  Bamboozled

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/21/13
Posts: 29

7/16/13 3:17:57 PM#31
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by Bamboozled

Lol, Your poll is awesome. Here is me hoping that won't be the case.

Not going to climb on the predictive soapbox...but we are talking F2P, right? Ignoring potential profit centers isn't something F2P titles are historically good at.

Agreed. There has to be that balance where you aren't charging people for items integral to the game play mechanics (storage being the biggest culprit). But provide enough cosmetic and boost items where they are helpful to the point where you feel the money you spend is worth it.

 

I think of it this way, they structure a F2P game so that you aren't being tapped monthly for a fee.

Though, my suspicion is, that if you are playing, they expect you to spend $10.00-15.00 on items a month.

The benefit of the F2P model is you can quit at any time, and don't have to worry about being tapped for not playing.

 

$10.00-15.00 in the cash shop === Monthly subscription fee (they just use a different name).

“He felt that his whole life was some kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.”

- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

7/16/13 3:24:19 PM#32
Originally posted by Sinaku

I vote yes, I know most people are worried "well i really want to be this race and this class but it isn't the "best" choice for that class :(" everything has its ups and downs with stuff like this and in the end it all comes down to skill (and lets be honest some good gear).

You never watched the Undead Rogue Factory churning them out by the countless thousands? (On second thought, you probably didn't).

In a PVP game (and I'm assuming that's likely, as a sandbox title) there is going to have no end of metagaming and minmaxing. Stab your mother for a .2% advatage? You bet, where is the old broad?

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  ElRenmazuo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/28/06
Posts: 4321

7/16/13 3:26:25 PM#33
No because I like to pick the race I think looks coolest with the class I want and I dont want to be slightly gimped for that.

https://33.media.tumblr.com/262c40940b3181ade1001120dd379aaa/tumblr_nfrzn853rR1rz64nto6_r1_400.gif

  Tokken

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/06/04
Posts: 946

"I'm your Huckleberry!"

7/16/13 3:26:34 PM#34


Originally posted by Gholos
Do you think that races characteristics scores and abilities should play an important role on how a class work or not?

I think that some races should be more adapt than others to chose a specific class, so for example an ogre warrior should be a better tank than an halfling warrior, have more hp, but an halfling warrior should be more difficult to hit due his little size and so on.

So i think that race's characteristic scores and abilities should have a big importance even at higher levels, this mean that item's stats dont have to raise too much characteristics of your PC.

 

I vote: YES



Yes please! I love that and racial abilities.

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  User Deleted
7/16/13 4:26:11 PM#35
Originally posted by Icewhite

In a PVP game (and I'm assuming that's likely, as a sandbox title) there is going to have no end of metagaming and minmaxing. Stab your mother for a .2% advatage? You bet, where is the old broad?

metagaming and minmaxing is less of an issue when PVP isn't structured like a sport.  The biggest mistake I can see EQN making is to have CTF and Control Point like gameplay.  It's that crap that brings in the 'pro' PVPers.  RVR lakes is about as far as I can see them going with their open world style if they hope to avoid these issues.  I'm actually hoping they have a completely new system that we haven't seen before, but who knows.

I never thought Tournament Style gaming fits in a MMORPG.  I think MOBA games and the like are better suited for that type of gaming.

  H3deon

Novice Member

Joined: 5/05/13
Posts: 37

7/16/13 4:47:24 PM#36
do like to have unique stuff for races, so that the choice of race matters,  but too much of impact and they could as well class/race lock, which I certainly do not care for..
  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

7/16/13 5:17:36 PM#37
I voted Yes, I don't mind a disadvantage for race as long as it isn't crippling, or can be compensated for in some other achievable way. It also has the benefit of making my character more uncommon if I play a race that is not min maxed for the class.  

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  Gallus85

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 1115

7/16/13 5:37:23 PM#38
Originally posted by Gholos
Originally posted by Gallus85

I voted no because you worded it incorrectly.

I think race should have a nice impact on how the class plays, but an "Ogre warrior should not be BETTER than other races".  It should be Different from other races.

So maybe an Ogre warrior hits a little harder, has immunity or resistance to getting stunned/knocked down.....

But maybe a Gnome warrior runs faster in combat, has a chance to avoid being hit all together, etc.

So race should* play a major role in how that class  ends up playing, but Better is not the word I'd use.

Different, but balanced would be better wordage.

I havent worded incorrectly, i have intend exactly BETTER, cause an ogre, for me, is supposed to have class restrictions so he should be better in some roles than a race that can play all classes. I think that an ogre should not play, for example, a thief or a wizard but if he could, he have to be less efficient than an halfing thiel or an elf wizard.

I think like a pen and paper rp gamer, so for example if i play a merchant i will prefer to have an ogre bodyguard than an halfling.

I know that my perspective could not fit a MMO game, but i would like to see this approach in EQN.

Again, I already stated why I didn't like the way you worded it.

If you make races absolutely better than other races for the same class play, then you stifle creativity and customization.

An ogre wizard would have, say, less int and there for less effective magic, but if this was balanced with increased resistance to getting interrupted, resistance to getting stunned/knocked down, more HPs, etc...

An Ogre wizard would not be better or worst than a high elf wizard.

One would just have different advantages over the other.

An ogre thief might be detected from stealth easier, but I bet he could backstab a lot harder than a tiny armed little halfing.

:)

See my point?  Don't make it so any race is "Better" at a class over other races.  Let each race have it's pros and cons and let the player decide how he wants to play.

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  sunshadow21

Novice Member

Joined: 8/15/04
Posts: 355

7/16/13 5:49:56 PM#39
Originally posted by tkreep
No because I like to pick the race I think looks coolest with the class I want and I dont want to be slightly gimped for that.

Depends on what you mean by slightly gimped. There needs to be some kind of difference, otherwise picking a race is literally no more than choosing a the visual model you want to look at, rendering race meaningless. The dffierences can't be game breaking, but having larger races rely more on brute strength and raw toughness while the smaller races rely more on dexterity and finesse is not unreasonable.

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 6241

7/16/13 6:25:58 PM#40
Wow did this and had a backlash because of PvP and PvE players were competing with class/race combos that were all around greater.

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