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Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

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578 posts found
  Nanfoodle

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3508

7/16/13 12:26:12 PM#281
Originally posted by jdnyc
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
but FF14 will be forced to make that change if they want to get their share of people looking for a new MMO.

Maybe.  Maybe not.  I think people were all about the whole B2P/F2P bandwagon last two years for sure.  There's no denying that it certainly boosted sales for games in the short term.

I do however think that Neverwinter has turned a lot of people off the F2P model.

 

People know quality when they play it. F2P helped people see that game for what it was. Lots of people are also turned off paying for bad MMOs. F2P model also helped a lot of people find quality games like LotR and are now subbing to that game. F2P is here to stay, conform or dwindle. In the long run FF14 will be forced to conform if they want their share of people looking for a new MMO.

  Daxamar

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 559

7/16/13 12:33:10 PM#282
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by jdnyc
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
but FF14 will be forced to make that change if they want to get their share of people looking for a new MMO.

Maybe.  Maybe not.  I think people were all about the whole B2P/F2P bandwagon last two years for sure.  There's no denying that it certainly boosted sales for games in the short term.

I do however think that Neverwinter has turned a lot of people off the F2P model.

 

People know quality when they play it. F2P helped people see that game for what it was. Lots of people are also turned off paying for bad MMOs. F2P model also helped a lot of people find quality games like LotR and are now subbing to that game. F2P is here to stay, conform or dwindle. In the long run FF14 will be forced to conform if they want their share of people looking for a new MMO.

I hope your wrong. I see F2P as money grabs only. They rush a game, grab as much money as they can of the Cash Shops, and move on.

Or as with MMOs that have gone F2P, they try to cash in on whats left of there game. I hope theres a return to the Good Old Days of MMOs with subs, great communities and added content as they game progresess.

IMO, Blizzard did it, SE can also.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17382

7/16/13 12:33:53 PM#283
Originally posted by Notimeforbs
Originally posted by kaludytk
Originally posted by Shatter30
This game will fail as a sub MMO.  If TOR couldn't survive as one as large of an IP as it is, why would this do any better when its essentially a WOW clone done worse. 

TOR failed because they tried to market and sell it with the IP. The game had nothing good about it besides the class stories. They thought "Star Wars" would sell the game and make people overlook the fact that it is just plain bad.

So... SWTOR failed because it was Star Wars?

TOR is not a bad game.  It's just about the best Themepark experience you can get right now.  It "failed" as a subscription based game for the same reason that all Themeparks are "failing":  People are tired of Themeparks, because they already know what they are going to get, before it releases.

To say that TOR is somehow a bad game is beyond dumb.

While I agree SWToR is not a bad game, themeparks are not failing because people already know what they are going to get.

Any major themepark game launching garners a huge initial playerbase. The issue is once end game is reached there isn't much to do so people move on to the next "theme park".

 

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1628

7/16/13 12:38:42 PM#284
Originally posted by Shatter30
This game will fail as a sub MMO.  If TOR couldn't survive as one as large of an IP as it is, why would this do any better when its essentially a WOW clone done worse. 

Whatever you may think, SquareEnix would love to have this game fail "as hard as" SWTOR...

  Nanfoodle

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3508

7/16/13 12:39:41 PM#285
Originally posted by Daxamar
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by jdnyc
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
but FF14 will be forced to make that change if they want to get their share of people looking for a new MMO.

Maybe.  Maybe not.  I think people were all about the whole B2P/F2P bandwagon last two years for sure.  There's no denying that it certainly boosted sales for games in the short term.

I do however think that Neverwinter has turned a lot of people off the F2P model.

 

People know quality when they play it. F2P helped people see that game for what it was. Lots of people are also turned off paying for bad MMOs. F2P model also helped a lot of people find quality games like LotR and are now subbing to that game. F2P is here to stay, conform or dwindle. In the long run FF14 will be forced to conform if they want their share of people looking for a new MMO.

I hope your wrong. I see F2P as money grabs only. They rush a game, grab as much money as they can of the Cash Shops, and move on.

Or as with MMOs that have gone F2P, they try to cash in on whats left of there game. I hope theres a return to the Good Old Days of MMOs with subs, great communities and added content as they game progresess.

IMO, Blizzard did it, SE can also.

Blizzard is losing more players every month then they are gaining. They have such a bloat hog of a game its going to be hard to turn this around for them. My bet is they will start the same F2P model SoE uses. Free level 1-end game and the restriction on end game play as a F2P player will get you to sub if you want to join the end game community. They are already in the middle of adding their cash shop, F2P next? Most likely. Also this model SoE has done keeps the end game community really tight. F2P players are in their own box and cant do what sub players can. So raiding with them does not work because they are not on par with a sub player in gear or power. Its all a ploy to get someone to spend 2-8 weeks leveling a char and fall in love with a game so they are hooked and now must sub to join the real community. 

  vandal5627

Novice Member

Joined: 12/04/12
Posts: 319

7/16/13 12:44:31 PM#286
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Daxamar
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by jdnyc
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
but FF14 will be forced to make that change if they want to get their share of people looking for a new MMO.

Maybe.  Maybe not.  I think people were all about the whole B2P/F2P bandwagon last two years for sure.  There's no denying that it certainly boosted sales for games in the short term.

I do however think that Neverwinter has turned a lot of people off the F2P model.

 

People know quality when they play it. F2P helped people see that game for what it was. Lots of people are also turned off paying for bad MMOs. F2P model also helped a lot of people find quality games like LotR and are now subbing to that game. F2P is here to stay, conform or dwindle. In the long run FF14 will be forced to conform if they want their share of people looking for a new MMO.

I hope your wrong. I see F2P as money grabs only. They rush a game, grab as much money as they can of the Cash Shops, and move on.

Or as with MMOs that have gone F2P, they try to cash in on whats left of there game. I hope theres a return to the Good Old Days of MMOs with subs, great communities and added content as they game progresess.

IMO, Blizzard did it, SE can also.

Blizzard is losing more players every month then they are gaining. They have such a bloat hog of a game its going to be hard to turn this around for them. My bet is they will start the same F2P model SoE uses. Free level 1-end game and the restriction on end game play as a F2P player will get you to sub if you want to join the end game community. They are already in the middle of adding their cash shop, F2P next? Most likely. Also this model SoE has done keeps the end game community really tight. F2P players are in their own box and cant do what sub players can. So raiding with them does not work because they are not on par with a sub player in gear or power. Its all a ploy to get someone to spend 2-8 weeks leveling a char and fall in love with a game so they are hooked and now must sub to join the real community. 

I don't think blizzard is giong FTP anytime soon with WOW, they're just adding a cash shop in game and double dipping.

  Nanfoodle

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3508

7/16/13 12:49:15 PM#287
Originally posted by vandal5627
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Daxamar
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by jdnyc
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
but FF14 will be forced to make that change if they want to get their share of people looking for a new MMO.

Maybe.  Maybe not.  I think people were all about the whole B2P/F2P bandwagon last two years for sure.  There's no denying that it certainly boosted sales for games in the short term.

I do however think that Neverwinter has turned a lot of people off the F2P model.

 

People know quality when they play it. F2P helped people see that game for what it was. Lots of people are also turned off paying for bad MMOs. F2P model also helped a lot of people find quality games like LotR and are now subbing to that game. F2P is here to stay, conform or dwindle. In the long run FF14 will be forced to conform if they want their share of people looking for a new MMO.

I hope your wrong. I see F2P as money grabs only. They rush a game, grab as much money as they can of the Cash Shops, and move on.

Or as with MMOs that have gone F2P, they try to cash in on whats left of there game. I hope theres a return to the Good Old Days of MMOs with subs, great communities and added content as they game progresess.

IMO, Blizzard did it, SE can also.

Blizzard is losing more players every month then they are gaining. They have such a bloat hog of a game its going to be hard to turn this around for them. My bet is they will start the same F2P model SoE uses. Free level 1-end game and the restriction on end game play as a F2P player will get you to sub if you want to join the end game community. They are already in the middle of adding their cash shop, F2P next? Most likely. Also this model SoE has done keeps the end game community really tight. F2P players are in their own box and cant do what sub players can. So raiding with them does not work because they are not on par with a sub player in gear or power. Its all a ploy to get someone to spend 2-8 weeks leveling a char and fall in love with a game so they are hooked and now must sub to join the real community. 

I don't think blizzard is giong FTP anytime soon with WOW, they're just adding a cash shop in game and double dipping.

From 12 mill players to just under 8 mill in the past year or so... hmmm. I think only part of your post is right. They are seeing what F2P is doing to this market and that the new players that play for free end up a lot of the time subbing. LotR went F2P and the number of people subbing went up. This is just the kind of thing blizzard is looking for. The just under 8 mill people subbing to WoW now will keep paying when it goes F2P because they will still want full access to the game. So Blizzard loses nothing by going F2P. What they gain in new subs will waken up a lot of their dead servers where people want to quit because they cant get raids.

  User Deleted
7/16/13 12:58:07 PM#288
Originally posted by Daxamar
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by jdnyc
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
but FF14 will be forced to make that change if they want to get their share of people looking for a new MMO.

Maybe.  Maybe not.  I think people were all about the whole B2P/F2P bandwagon last two years for sure.  There's no denying that it certainly boosted sales for games in the short term.

I do however think that Neverwinter has turned a lot of people off the F2P model.

 

People know quality when they play it. F2P helped people see that game for what it was. Lots of people are also turned off paying for bad MMOs. F2P model also helped a lot of people find quality games like LotR and are now subbing to that game. F2P is here to stay, conform or dwindle. In the long run FF14 will be forced to conform if they want their share of people looking for a new MMO.

I hope your wrong. I see F2P as money grabs only. They rush a game, grab as much money as they can of the Cash Shops, and move on.

Or as with MMOs that have gone F2P, they try to cash in on whats left of there game. I hope theres a return to the Good Old Days of MMOs with subs, great communities and added content as they game progresess.

IMO, Blizzard did it, SE can also.

Really not sure if trolling or just getting to the age at which you forget all the woes that happened back then with the nostalgia glasses.

Bad F2P is shit, I readily admit that, it is a money grubbing tactic which is used by the same type of people that would put out shitty P2P games with no trials back before the days of F2P.

But unlike P2P which is only ever shit these days F2P can also have a good side (a game where you can choose to work your ass to the bone, pun oh so intended, by spending allot of time in-game having fun to keep up with paying players or just pay and spend less time, it isn't pay to win or pay to have fun because if you're really the type to have fun only at the end game then the F2P craze isn't what will get ya, it's the sandbox wave, either way it is fair because you get to play the game how you want to and being a nice douche to people will also mean that even if you're not paying you're still bringing something to the game ;) ).

  Doogiehowser

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1954

7/16/13 1:04:50 PM#289
Originally posted by Daxamar
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by jdnyc
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
but FF14 will be forced to make that change if they want to get their share of people looking for a new MMO.

Maybe.  Maybe not.  I think people were all about the whole B2P/F2P bandwagon last two years for sure.  There's no denying that it certainly boosted sales for games in the short term.

I do however think that Neverwinter has turned a lot of people off the F2P model.

 

People know quality when they play it. F2P helped people see that game for what it was. Lots of people are also turned off paying for bad MMOs. F2P model also helped a lot of people find quality games like LotR and are now subbing to that game. F2P is here to stay, conform or dwindle. In the long run FF14 will be forced to conform if they want their share of people looking for a new MMO.

I hope your wrong. I see F2P as money grabs only. They rush a game, grab as much money as they can of the Cash Shops, and move on.

Or as with MMOs that have gone F2P, they try to cash in on whats left of there game. I hope theres a return to the Good Old Days of MMOs with subs, great communities and added content as they game progresess.

IMO, Blizzard did it, SE can also.

Good old days... 

Let me tell you something about good old days. First of all you are over selling the 'great communities' part. And yes communities were better in olden days not because games were P2P but because MMOS were not main stream. I had met plenty of jerks and a**hats back in the days while playing AO and EQ, even more so because things like spawn camping etc brought the worse out of people.

Only because someone can afford 15 bucks a month doesn't mean he gets to wear a halo over his head.

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell

"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney

  Wolfhammer

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 519

Bleh!

7/16/13 1:11:14 PM#290
Originally posted by Aldous.Huxley

It's a sub based game & I couldn't be happier about it. I'll gladly shell out a nominal fee for a quality game.

+1  I'm with ya friend !

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1628

7/16/13 1:15:46 PM#291
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by vandal5627
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Daxamar
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by jdnyc
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
but FF14 will be forced to make that change if they want to get their share of people looking for a new MMO.

Maybe.  Maybe not.  I think people were all about the whole B2P/F2P bandwagon last two years for sure.  There's no denying that it certainly boosted sales for games in the short term.

I do however think that Neverwinter has turned a lot of people off the F2P model.

 

People know quality when they play it. F2P helped people see that game for what it was. Lots of people are also turned off paying for bad MMOs. F2P model also helped a lot of people find quality games like LotR and are now subbing to that game. F2P is here to stay, conform or dwindle. In the long run FF14 will be forced to conform if they want their share of people looking for a new MMO.

I hope your wrong. I see F2P as money grabs only. They rush a game, grab as much money as they can of the Cash Shops, and move on.

Or as with MMOs that have gone F2P, they try to cash in on whats left of there game. I hope theres a return to the Good Old Days of MMOs with subs, great communities and added content as they game progresess.

IMO, Blizzard did it, SE can also.

Blizzard is losing more players every month then they are gaining. They have such a bloat hog of a game its going to be hard to turn this around for them. My bet is they will start the same F2P model SoE uses. Free level 1-end game and the restriction on end game play as a F2P player will get you to sub if you want to join the end game community. They are already in the middle of adding their cash shop, F2P next? Most likely. Also this model SoE has done keeps the end game community really tight. F2P players are in their own box and cant do what sub players can. So raiding with them does not work because they are not on par with a sub player in gear or power. Its all a ploy to get someone to spend 2-8 weeks leveling a char and fall in love with a game so they are hooked and now must sub to join the real community. 

I don't think blizzard is giong FTP anytime soon with WOW, they're just adding a cash shop in game and double dipping.

From 12 mill players to just under 8 mill in the past year or so... hmmm. I think only part of your post is right. They are seeing what F2P is doing to this market and that the new players that play for free end up a lot of the time subbing. LotR went F2P and the number of people subbing went up. This is just the kind of thing blizzard is looking for. The just under 8 mill people subbing to WoW now will keep paying when it goes F2P because they will still want full access to the game. So Blizzard loses nothing by going F2P. What they gain in new subs will waken up a lot of their dead servers where people want to quit because they cant get raids.

They were at 9mil this time last year...and are currently sitting at 8.3 as per their last announcement (pretty much the same amount they had during Burning Crusade).

Its more like (fact) they went from 12 mil to 8.3 mil in the last 3+ years....

Ya...they won't be gonig F2P anytime soon....

PS, the last part of the hughlighted line is a little ironic, don't you think?

  Notimeforbs

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/13
Posts: 297

7/16/13 1:28:52 PM#292
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Notimeforbs
Originally posted by kaludytk
Originally posted by Shatter30
This game will fail as a sub MMO.  If TOR couldn't survive as one as large of an IP as it is, why would this do any better when its essentially a WOW clone done worse. 

TOR failed because they tried to market and sell it with the IP. The game had nothing good about it besides the class stories. They thought "Star Wars" would sell the game and make people overlook the fact that it is just plain bad.

So... SWTOR failed because it was Star Wars?

TOR is not a bad game.  It's just about the best Themepark experience you can get right now.  It "failed" as a subscription based game for the same reason that all Themeparks are "failing":  People are tired of Themeparks, because they already know what they are going to get, before it releases.

To say that TOR is somehow a bad game is beyond dumb.

While I agree SWToR is not a bad game, themeparks are not failing because people already know what they are going to get.

Any major themepark game launching garners a huge initial playerbase. The issue is once end game is reached there isn't much to do so people move on to the next "theme park".

 

What part of that isn't foreseeable?  It happens with every Themepark release.  It's the same story.  I'm sure we could lawyer this until we are blue in the face, but the point is... once they get to that end-game... they remember, "Hey... I've done this grind before."

  Nanfoodle

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3508

7/16/13 1:32:19 PM#293
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by vandal5627
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Daxamar
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by jdnyc
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
but FF14 will be forced to make that change if they want to get their share of people looking for a new MMO.

Maybe.  Maybe not.  I think people were all about the whole B2P/F2P bandwagon last two years for sure.  There's no denying that it certainly boosted sales for games in the short term.

I do however think that Neverwinter has turned a lot of people off the F2P model.

 

People know quality when they play it. F2P helped people see that game for what it was. Lots of people are also turned off paying for bad MMOs. F2P model also helped a lot of people find quality games like LotR and are now subbing to that game. F2P is here to stay, conform or dwindle. In the long run FF14 will be forced to conform if they want their share of people looking for a new MMO.

I hope your wrong. I see F2P as money grabs only. They rush a game, grab as much money as they can of the Cash Shops, and move on.

Or as with MMOs that have gone F2P, they try to cash in on whats left of there game. I hope theres a return to the Good Old Days of MMOs with subs, great communities and added content as they game progresess.

IMO, Blizzard did it, SE can also.

Blizzard is losing more players every month then they are gaining. They have such a bloat hog of a game its going to be hard to turn this around for them. My bet is they will start the same F2P model SoE uses. Free level 1-end game and the restriction on end game play as a F2P player will get you to sub if you want to join the end game community. They are already in the middle of adding their cash shop, F2P next? Most likely. Also this model SoE has done keeps the end game community really tight. F2P players are in their own box and cant do what sub players can. So raiding with them does not work because they are not on par with a sub player in gear or power. Its all a ploy to get someone to spend 2-8 weeks leveling a char and fall in love with a game so they are hooked and now must sub to join the real community. 

I don't think blizzard is giong FTP anytime soon with WOW, they're just adding a cash shop in game and double dipping.

From 12 mill players to just under 8 mill in the past year or so... hmmm. I think only part of your post is right. They are seeing what F2P is doing to this market and that the new players that play for free end up a lot of the time subbing. LotR went F2P and the number of people subbing went up. This is just the kind of thing blizzard is looking for. The just under 8 mill people subbing to WoW now will keep paying when it goes F2P because they will still want full access to the game. So Blizzard loses nothing by going F2P. What they gain in new subs will waken up a lot of their dead servers where people want to quit because they cant get raids.

They were at 9mil this time last year...and are currently sitting at 8.3 as per their last announcement (pretty much the same amount they had during Burning Crusade).

Its more like (fact) they went from 12 mil to 8.3 mil in the last 3+ years....

Ya...they won't be gonig F2P anytime soon....

PS, the last part of the hughlighted line is a little ironic, don't you think?

Not at all, you were right about the double dipping not the F2P. WoW is setting up their cash shop for the F2P model they will be coming out with. 500k players is a good sold MMO, they have lost the equivalent of about 6 successful MMOs since BC. Thats 45'000'000 a month and you dont think they want to take action to regrow that? Thats 25% off their business gone to many other games. A lot of them F2P model lol. You can add F2P and keep people subbing, just take a look at LofR and SoE products.

EDIT: I think the problem is most people here dont know the difference between freemium model and F2P model. Companies like SoE use a F2P model that is designed to make you want to sub when you get to end game. I also dont want to play a MMO that makes all its money from a cash shop like freemium games. The F2P model LotR and SoE use are just to net people looking for a game. Not lowering the standards to Neverwinter.

  narmito

Novice Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 14

7/16/13 1:40:51 PM#294
final fantsy xi 10 years mmo still with subscription ... the end :) 
  Nanfoodle

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3508

7/16/13 1:48:42 PM#295
Originally posted by narmito
final fantsy xi 10 years mmo still with subscription ... the end :) 

Different market, different time. This is like saying we should go back to selling music only by selling whole albums. MP3 players changed the music market and using places like Itunes to sell singles makes way more money. They still sell albums and its worth it to keep making them but when a market changes you change or die. People are sick of paying for bad MMOs and know they need to play more then 10-20 level to learn what the game is about. F2P with a P2P option when you get end game is getting a lot of people to sub to games they would not have otherwise played. F2P is not bad its a good thing and FF14 may not know it yet. Some fans may not but this is going to be standard on all MMOs and you get with the program or fail. Box sales + sub for about the first year to grab all your fans and stabilize your game and then F2P a year later to bring in new players and grow the player base as much as you can.

  SpottyGekko

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 2956

7/16/13 2:26:51 PM#296
Originally posted by Wolfhammer
Originally posted by Aldous.Huxley

It's a sub based game & I couldn't be happier about it. I'll gladly shell out a nominal fee for a quality game.

+1  I'm with ya friend !

+1   Me too !

  simulacra

Novice Member

Joined: 7/11/13
Posts: 93

7/16/13 2:34:54 PM#297
Haha Swtor didn't fail because it's a themepark! It failed because it was a buggy mess with an awful engine. Plus it felt like a single player experience which turned off a lot of people
  Nanfoodle

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3508

7/16/13 2:36:53 PM#298
Originally posted by simulacra
Haha Swtor didn't fail because it's a themepark! It failed because it was a buggy mess with an awful engine. Plus it felt like a single player experience which turned off a lot of people

500k players is not a fail. FF14 would do so well to fail as hard as SWToR.  

  Ehllfhire

Novice Member

Joined: 8/11/10
Posts: 590

Playing the FFXIV 2.0 Demo

7/16/13 2:37:59 PM#299
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by simulacra
Haha Swtor didn't fail because it's a themepark! It failed because it was a buggy mess with an awful engine. Plus it felt like a single player experience which turned off a lot of people

500k players is not a fail. FF14 would do so well to fail as hard as SWToR.  

Ya I doubt XIV will ever get close to TOR numbers. I see it being around TSW numbers.

Any graphical, audio, or gameplay restrictions not seen in other mmos but found in FFXIV can be blamed on one thing.
PS3

  Nanfoodle

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3508

7/16/13 2:40:05 PM#300
Originally posted by Ehllfhire
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by simulacra
Haha Swtor didn't fail because it's a themepark! It failed because it was a buggy mess with an awful engine. Plus it felt like a single player experience which turned off a lot of people

500k players is not a fail. FF14 would do so well to fail as hard as SWToR.  

Ya I doubt XIV will ever get close to TOR numbers. I see it being around TSW numbers.

As long as they get enough to keep new content coming and I can find a team I wont care =-) I really hope this game does make a larger dent but 500k is sold now days!!!

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