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General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Who wants camping back?

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448 posts found
  Jemcrystal

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 1270

Let em put a slave ring thru u're nose u're prob not going to like where they're taking you. Think.

7/16/13 9:42:43 AM#101
     =     
  alakram

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/02/06
Posts: 2225

7/16/13 9:46:50 AM#102
Originally posted by Chieftan

I thought about the mechanics of spawn camping vs dungeoning on my feet for the past oh, about 10 years now, I'm kinda ready to just chill at a camp again.

 

Think about it: you go to an area, group up, pick a campsite and just chill there pulling mobs to your spot. 

 

Maybe change things up a little from the early days of EQ such as:

 

1) Kill X mobs in X amount of time quests or "scalp" style turn-in quests

2)Random boss/named spawns

3)Random multi-mob spawns...think you've got the spawn broken?  Put in a random chance for 4 mobs to spawn where 1 normally does.

4)Remember the cool places you used to camp in EQ?  It could be a kitchen, a throne room, a campfire, etc.  Developers could really liven it up with some visually interesting camp spots.

5)"Hold the line" camps where you rain fire on a sea of orcs trying to cross the moat

Honestly none of this would require a massive re-coding of any current MMO.  Pump up the spawns in a given area and let people have at it.  Unlike the days of EQ you could still have the normal quest-quest-quest for exp path of current MMOs; this would just give players another alternate way of gaining levels.

It sounds to me like a new kind of OpenQuest or whatever it is called. The same that Warhammer did, the same that rift did, and it sounds good enought.

-=AlaKraM=-
Don't fight against poverty, fight against greed.
My Lord of the Rings Gallery

  Rydeson

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 3143

7/16/13 9:49:38 AM#103
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by sirphobos
Given the choice of camping or quest hub grinding, I'd take camping any day.

I'd take a dynamic world with events that happen everywhere without having to talk to a NPC with a "!" over his head.

     True.. BUT..   In an earlier post you mention about people "getting a life".. And I'm unsure how camping as it was in EQ1 is relevant to time spent playing..  Anyways, I agree with the above that I'd rather have dynamic events  instead of NPC ? hubs, but.. and this is a HUGE but.. What GW2 does is only a slight difference then quest hubs.. The so called heart quest unlocks the NPC that you can spend rewards on..  You still have to follow the breadcrumbs and do the "kill 10 rats" to unlock him as a vendor..  So what GW2 did was only slightly upgrade the annoying quest hub formula, but it's only dressed differently.. 

     What I would of love to see is allow people to BUY any of the items from a smaller number of NPC without ever being forced to do a "kill 10 rants" task to unlock them..  As for the time issue.. I find it more annoying  and wasteful running around looking for events, then camping..... So technically wouldn't it be more productive time wise to sit and camp, then run and gun?

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

7/16/13 11:26:05 AM#104
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Rydeson
Originally posted by nariusseldon

nah .. i am glad those days are over.

Camping is boring to me. I play a game for gameplay, not for waiting around doing nothing or chatting.

 

If all you did was wait around and chat, that sounds like a personal problem...... I never had any problem finding a group or camp to enjoy.. and the PULLS were coming faster then we could kill em.... So many times we had to tell our puller to STOP because we needed some free time to rest.. LOL 

You have never taken a number, and camp a boss with multiple groups?

Nope, because I didn't play poorly designed games. I played DAoC.

 

I agree EQ is very poorly designed.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

7/16/13 11:28:54 AM#105
Originally posted by Chieftan

We all know the easy-solo-quest formula has just about been beat into the ground.  Whether its camping or something else, developers better start coming up with some new ideas.

They already did. Online ARPG with some MMO features, MOBAs, instanced pvp games, shared world shooters like Destiny.

There is no reason to go back to a try and failed idea. There are plenty of new ideas .. just that some may not be traditional MMOs. Personally i really don't care about a definition if the game is fun.

  DavisFlight

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2396

7/16/13 11:29:15 AM#106
Originally posted by KBishop
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Fendel84M

EQ and FFXI are still there actually. You can camp all you want, for the record :-p.

Ah, the dumbest argument in the book...

 

No, the games as we knew and loved them have long ago been patched away.

For good reason. Have you actually played that game Pre WoTG?

The OP is not talking about sitting and waiting for rare spawns, they're talking about sitting in a room with respawning mobs and pulling them over and over.

I played DAoC where there was no silly waiting for boss mobs.

  DavisFlight

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2396

7/16/13 11:30:02 AM#107
Originally posted by BizkitNL
Originally posted by Rydeson
  Now as for your response that instancing takes off the population pressure of having hundreds if not thousands of characters in the same zone...... OMFGGGGGGGGGG What game are you playing that ever came close to that?  I have never seen Rift, TOR and GW2 end zones or any zone have hundreds to thousands of people IN that zone fighting.. And don't even dare to tell me it's because they are all busy instancing..

9 years ago (and before that), instancing was indeed a good way to let players enjoy content without lagging their socks off. I'm surprised it's hard to comprehend.....

Except thats not true... There was zero lag in noninstanced dungeons in DAoC.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2647

There... are... four... lights!

7/16/13 11:42:02 AM#108
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by BizkitNL
Originally posted by Rydeson
  Now as for your response that instancing takes off the population pressure of having hundreds if not thousands of characters in the same zone...... OMFGGGGGGGGGG What game are you playing that ever came close to that?  I have never seen Rift, TOR and GW2 end zones or any zone have hundreds to thousands of people IN that zone fighting.. And don't even dare to tell me it's because they are all busy instancing..

9 years ago (and before that), instancing was indeed a good way to let players enjoy content without lagging their socks off. I'm surprised it's hard to comprehend.....

Except thats not true... There was zero lag in noninstanced dungeons in DAoC.

You can't be serious.

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  DavisFlight

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2396

7/16/13 11:46:14 AM#109
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by BizkitNL
Originally posted by Rydeson
  Now as for your response that instancing takes off the population pressure of having hundreds if not thousands of characters in the same zone...... OMFGGGGGGGGGG What game are you playing that ever came close to that?  I have never seen Rift, TOR and GW2 end zones or any zone have hundreds to thousands of people IN that zone fighting.. And don't even dare to tell me it's because they are all busy instancing..

9 years ago (and before that), instancing was indeed a good way to let players enjoy content without lagging their socks off. I'm surprised it's hard to comprehend.....

Except thats not true... There was zero lag in noninstanced dungeons in DAoC.

You can't be serious.

I am totally serious. DAoC didn't start to lag until you got about 200 people on creen at once.

Instancing has never, EVER been about technical limitations. Especially not now. PS2 and Darkfall prove instancing is not needed for performance.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

7/16/13 11:48:20 AM#110
Originally posted by DavisFlight
 

The OP is not talking about sitting and waiting for rare spawns, they're talking about sitting in a room with respawning mobs and pulling them over and over.

I played DAoC where there was no silly waiting for boss mobs.

To be honest, when i first read this .. the impression is EQ camping, where waiting in queue is a large part of. That certainly turns me off.

However, if you are talking about not moving, and just kill, kill, and kill, then it *may* work for me, as long as the combat is fun.

The EQ model certainly will NOT work since you are fighting one-ies and two-ies and there is little tactical variations.

Lastly, the down-side of this type of camping is the static nature of terrain. I would probably like a dungeon crawl better just because the terrain (or layout) is changing and if combat takes that into account, it is more fun.

 

  DavisFlight

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2396

7/16/13 11:51:07 AM#111
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by DavisFlight
 

The OP is not talking about sitting and waiting for rare spawns, they're talking about sitting in a room with respawning mobs and pulling them over and over.

I played DAoC where there was no silly waiting for boss mobs.

To be honest, when i first read this .. the impression is EQ camping, where waiting in queue is a large part of. That certainly turns me off.

However, if you are talking about not moving, and just kill, kill, and kill, then it *may* work for me, as long as the combat is fun.

The EQ model certainly will NOT work since you are fighting one-ies and two-ies and there is little tactical variations.

Lastly, the down-side of this type of camping is the static nature of terrain. I would probably like a dungeon crawl better just because the terrain (or layout) is changing and if combat takes that into account, it is more fun.

 

That's why I liked how DAoC encouraged you to move around. The longer a specific area had gone without anyone pulling from it, the more camp bonus xp it gave you.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2647

There... are... four... lights!

7/16/13 11:52:30 AM#112
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by BizkitNL
Originally posted by Rydeson
  Now as for your response that instancing takes off the population pressure of having hundreds if not thousands of characters in the same zone...... OMFGGGGGGGGGG What game are you playing that ever came close to that?  I have never seen Rift, TOR and GW2 end zones or any zone have hundreds to thousands of people IN that zone fighting.. And don't even dare to tell me it's because they are all busy instancing..

9 years ago (and before that), instancing was indeed a good way to let players enjoy content without lagging their socks off. I'm surprised it's hard to comprehend.....

Except thats not true... There was zero lag in noninstanced dungeons in DAoC.

You can't be serious.

I am totally serious. DAoC didn't start to lag until you got about 200 people on creen at once.

Instancing has never, EVER been about technical limitations. Especially not now. PS2 and Darkfall prove instancing is not needed for performance.

I always had a top notch computer because I'm working in computer graphics development. Back when I bought DAoC, I had the "cream of the crop" computer. NO WAY DAoC was managing 200 people on screen without lag, not even 50 people.

DAoC fans tend to exagerate that "feature" (they actually make it up). I've been there, done that.

And Darkfall... please don't make me laugh. The performance of that game is abyssal as soon as you have more than 20 people on screen.

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  kjempff

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/12/04
Posts: 665

Make worlds not stories

7/16/13 12:21:45 PM#113

Camping worked well with eq because eq's grind was xp grind combined with named grind for drops. Other mmorpgs are not build on xp grind, but other grinds (grind points, grind dungeons, grind dailys, grind dynamic events, grind pvp points, continue on your own).

I enjoyed camping very much when I was at one, and I hated it when I spend 30 minutes to run to a zone just to hear "Hand/Warlord is camped". I loved a good camp grind after a day at work, talking with the group while killing stuff, spiced with moments of adrenaline rush from overpulling.

Camping for a quest item was a good way of taking in and really experience the world, and giving the brain some rest once inawhile builds immersion and also allows You to plan things, learn tactics, talk to people. At times it would be boring, but even the worst 20 hour grinds for an epic drop would be all worth it when I finally got the drop (feeling of accomplishment)... I can't explain it, but occasionally beeing bored is good.

 

Anyways, camping is tied to special game mechanics, so do I want it back ? I think the question is more, will we ever see those game mechanics again. The last mmorpg I did just a little amount of camping in was WoW where I camped for a special hunter pet (back when it mattered). 

  WereLlama

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/13/12
Posts: 193

7/16/13 12:59:15 PM#114

Camping mobs can work if it rewards one of the following play styles:

1. Socialize - If it facilitates players to talk with each other and share, while waiting for a mob to spawn 

2. Killer- Waiting in one spot allows for more opportunity to kill bigger and more interesting stuff

3. Achiever- Waiting in one spot allows the player to achieve something that most, less patient players, can achieve.

4. Explorer- Waiting in one spot long enough might reveal a clue or open up a new area seen by very few

Otherwise, it will fail.

Personally, while camping in EQ for years, I found it to be quite social-able until everyone figured out the exact/precise perfect way to kill stuff , and it became less of a social occasion.

Maybe the key is providing a truly random reward for campin an area, but only allow you to camp something once a day, so its special.

-WL

 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

7/16/13 1:05:01 PM#115
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by DavisFlight
 

The OP is not talking about sitting and waiting for rare spawns, they're talking about sitting in a room with respawning mobs and pulling them over and over.

I played DAoC where there was no silly waiting for boss mobs.

To be honest, when i first read this .. the impression is EQ camping, where waiting in queue is a large part of. That certainly turns me off.

However, if you are talking about not moving, and just kill, kill, and kill, then it *may* work for me, as long as the combat is fun.

The EQ model certainly will NOT work since you are fighting one-ies and two-ies and there is little tactical variations.

Lastly, the down-side of this type of camping is the static nature of terrain. I would probably like a dungeon crawl better just because the terrain (or layout) is changing and if combat takes that into account, it is more fun.

 

That's why I liked how DAoC encouraged you to move around. The longer a specific area had gone without anyone pulling from it, the more camp bonus xp it gave you.

The question, of course, is whether there are too many people to crowd the camp spot.

There is no reason this has to be done in an open world. If you just want to wait for spawn and kill, doing it in a group in an instance is the same. Even better, because there is zero chance of the need to share with anyone.

And of course the question is why waiting for respawn (assuming that it is fast and no dead time) is more fun than running from the beginning to the end of a dungeon, where you can also kill hordes of stuff?

 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

7/16/13 1:07:28 PM#116
Originally posted by WereLlama

Camping mobs can work if it rewards one of the following play styles:

1. Socialize - If it facilitates players to talk with each other and share, while waiting for a mob to spawn 

I don't play games to social. If i want to talk, i go to a chat room.

2. Killer- Waiting in one spot allows for more opportunity to kill bigger and more interesting stuff

Why wait? Just give me the bigger and interesting stuff in an instance, and let me kill it.

3. Achiever- Waiting in one spot allows the player to achieve something that most, less patient players, can achieve.

I don't want a "patience" achievement. I want one that says i down challenging mobs (one boss, or a hordes of lesser monsters).

4. Explorer- Waiting in one spot long enough might reveal a clue or open up a new area seen by very few

LOL .. camping, by definition, is the OPPOSITE of exploring. You stay in one place.

 

 

  Tryken

Ultima Online Correspondent

Joined: 7/08/04
Posts: 63

Some editors are failed writers, but so are most writers. - T.S. Eliot

7/16/13 1:07:42 PM#117

Somebody else said it, and I want to reiterate my approval: Mobs need to start dropping loot specific to that mob.

 

Take Guild Wars 2. Aside from getting the dungeon-completion bonus to spend on getting that dungeon's armor after so many runs, what's the point of doing one dungeon over another? Gold gain. And why go to any dungeon that isn't CoF? Well, if you've already gotten the armor-look you want, there isn't. You can get an exotic from any chest in any dungeon. So you'll always go to the fastest one.

That's why dungeons and rare mobs need specific loot. It acts as incentive. Why go to a nightmarish dungeon? Because you have a chance of getting a very rare and expensive item that's only available at that dungeon.

It's a way to make mobs valuable again, and to encourage players not to take the path of least resistance all the time.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11896

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

7/16/13 1:16:13 PM#118
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by BizkitNL
Originally posted by Rydeson
  Now as for your response that instancing takes off the population pressure of having hundreds if not thousands of characters in the same zone...... OMFGGGGGGGGGG What game are you playing that ever came close to that?  I have never seen Rift, TOR and GW2 end zones or any zone have hundreds to thousands of people IN that zone fighting.. And don't even dare to tell me it's because they are all busy instancing..

9 years ago (and before that), instancing was indeed a good way to let players enjoy content without lagging their socks off. I'm surprised it's hard to comprehend.....

Except thats not true... There was zero lag in noninstanced dungeons in DAoC.

You can't be serious.

I am totally serious. DAoC didn't start to lag until you got about 200 people on creen at once.

Instancing has never, EVER been about technical limitations. Especially not now. PS2 and Darkfall prove instancing is not needed for performance.

I don't doubt that you genuinely believe that. I also don't doubt that you feel that way because you really aren't familiar with how instancing has been used outside of dungeons. Here are a few:

  • AION, TERA and many other modern MMOs instance entire zones to create channels to boost performance in crowded areas.
  • Guild Wars instances the public town area, to limit it to 100 players in an instance.
  • Earth and Beyond instanced the new player zones to reduce the load at release.

 

 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

7/16/13 1:24:02 PM#119
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by BizkitNL
Originally posted by Rydeson
  Now as for your response that instancing takes off the population pressure of having hundreds if not thousands of characters in the same zone...... OMFGGGGGGGGGG What game are you playing that ever came close to that?  I have never seen Rift, TOR and GW2 end zones or any zone have hundreds to thousands of people IN that zone fighting.. And don't even dare to tell me it's because they are all busy instancing..

9 years ago (and before that), instancing was indeed a good way to let players enjoy content without lagging their socks off. I'm surprised it's hard to comprehend.....

Except thats not true... There was zero lag in noninstanced dungeons in DAoC.

You can't be serious.

I am totally serious. DAoC didn't start to lag until you got about 200 people on creen at once.

Instancing has never, EVER been about technical limitations. Especially not now. PS2 and Darkfall prove instancing is not needed for performance.

I don't doubt that you genuinely believe that. I also don't doubt that you feel that way because you really aren't familiar with how instancing has been used outside of dungeons. Here are a few:

  • AION, TERA and many other modern MMOs instance entire zones to create channels to boost performance in crowded areas.
  • Guild Wars instances the public town area, to limit it to 100 players in an instance.
  • Earth and Beyond instanced the new player zones to reduce the load at release.

 

 

Yeh. Marvel Heroes has serious performance issues in public zones, particularly when all the players are fighting a single world boss.

There is no reason not to use instances.

  Aelious

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2301

World > Quest Progression

7/16/13 1:41:24 PM#120
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by BizkitNL
Originally posted by Rydeson
  Now as for your response that instancing takes off the population pressure of having hundreds if not thousands of characters in the same zone...... OMFGGGGGGGGGG What game are you playing that ever came close to that?  I have never seen Rift, TOR and GW2 end zones or any zone have hundreds to thousands of people IN that zone fighting.. And don't even dare to tell me it's because they are all busy instancing..

9 years ago (and before that), instancing was indeed a good way to let players enjoy content without lagging their socks off. I'm surprised it's hard to comprehend.....

Except thats not true... There was zero lag in noninstanced dungeons in DAoC.

You can't be serious.

I am totally serious. DAoC didn't start to lag until you got about 200 people on creen at once.

Instancing has never, EVER been about technical limitations. Especially not now. PS2 and Darkfall prove instancing is not needed for performance.

I don't doubt that you genuinely believe that. I also don't doubt that you feel that way because you really aren't familiar with how instancing has been used outside of dungeons. Here are a few:

  • AION, TERA and many other modern MMOs instance entire zones to create channels to boost performance in crowded areas.
  • Guild Wars instances the public town area, to limit it to 100 players in an instance.
  • Earth and Beyond instanced the new player zones to reduce the load at release.

Yeh. Marvel Heroes has serious performance issues in public zones, particularly when all the players are fighting a single world boss.

There is no reason not to use instances.

 

If you mean channels of zones I agree, bad performance is annoying and not every engine is created equal.

 

If you mean private instancing then all the players wouldn't be able to attack a world boss, which if there were so many there to cause lag insinuates they liked it.

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