Trending Games | The Witcher 3 | Blade & Soul | Firefall | TERA

    Facebook Twitter YouTube Twitch.tv
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,985,160 Users Online:0
Games:828  Posts:6,434,141
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online AD2460 ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Ninja Anime Pirates Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord 2 Archlord X Armored Warfare Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Bionic Marine Command Online Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blackguards 2 Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodborne Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chroma Squad Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crowfall Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Heart Online Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dying Light Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthlock: Festival of Magic Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Fable Legends Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GRAV GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods Rush Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Hand of Fate Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Immune Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online Kill Strain King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Grimrock 2 Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lords of the Fallen 2 Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Hunter 4: Ultimate Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Necropolis Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Nova Genesis Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Overwatch Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Rebel Galaxy Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Chronicles Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Conflict Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Coast Legends Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Banner Saga 2 The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Trapped Dead: Lockdown Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Triad Wars Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utherous Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warriors World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles 3D Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » Are classes really a sandbox feature?

5 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 » Search
93 posts found
  zymurgeist

Elite Member

Joined: 12/24/04
Posts: 5244

7/16/13 6:45:17 AM#41
Sandboxes have nonlinear gameplay. There is no such thing as a "sandbox feature" just varying levels of nonlinearity.

"Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  Antarious

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/14/05
Posts: 2811

7/16/13 6:54:24 AM#42

I'll put it this way...

 

In a true "sandbox" .. sure classes can be a feature.   However, in a true "sandbox" that would mean one of the users created the "system" and not SOE.   This would be like going into Second Life and taking part in one of the various combat sims.   If you change the appearance of your avatar (hair, skin, eyes, clothes, animations etc) everything is created by a user... even the combat system on that combat sim will be created by a user (not linden labs).

 

Sandbox by definition only has a few features... such as user imagination and ability to create.

 

So as others have said.. there seems to be a great deal of confusion about sandbox and it certainly means different things to different people.

Moderator's on this site allow certain posters to create endless troll threads. Yet "warn" people for giving recommendations... account *pending* deletion because.. why bother.

  TheLizardbones

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10959

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

7/16/13 8:27:44 AM#43

There's no risk or reward for picking a class, only costs. If you look at a player's avatar as being part of the shared world that all the players are in, picking a class definitely creates a persistent change in the world, but once that change is made, it's permanent. The player is not longer interacting with it, and other players aren't interacting with it either. It becomes a static feature of the world.

This is based on how classes are implemented in every MMORPG I've ever played that has classes. I can't think of a way to implement classes that I would consider sandbox, but I suppose it could be done.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  sirphobos

Novice Member

Joined: 6/10/11
Posts: 625

7/16/13 8:30:12 AM#44
Originally posted by Waterlily
It's becoming very apparent that every person has a completely different definition of what is a sandbox.

 

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 7764

7/16/13 8:34:50 AM#45

Class system can have a lot of freedom if you can multi class and select specific skills within each class - Archeage is a good example of this.

So even if 10 players are all warriors with combat/devotion/adamant schools they could all be completely different as each one could pick 24 different skills from those schools.

 

  asdar

Novice Member

Joined: 11/07/05
Posts: 663

7/16/13 8:46:50 AM#46

Definition of Sandbox/Theme park that I use is that it's a scale that goes from pure sandbox to pure Theme park. Pure Sandbox would be Programming the game yourself, every choice is made by the player. Pure Theme park would be a movie, with no choices at all made by the player. Each feature can be defined as more or less sand this way, but Sand doesn't always equal good in my opinion.

Classes take the decision out of the players hands so it's more theme park than sand. I'm 100% for classes, but I'm also a Sandbox proponent. It's just one of the features that I think is more important than choice.

I think classes could be forced in a more sandbox way. Skill caps and limits, choices between skills where a class choice must be made and the like. For example you could make a choice that if you take this healing skill you can't take a 2h sword skill. You might still be able to take a 1h sword skill or archery skill. It's all fluid. That way if you wanted to be a healer you'd almost have to take a branch that led to healing skills over combat skills. Hybrids would then be players that decided they'd rather have this one skill over a certain healer skill, so they'd be less a healer, but maybe better overall, or in certain situations.

That gets complicated, but there's choices that make classes more sand. Straight up classes is not sand though.

Asdar

  Dullahan

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/05
Posts: 1816

Death to Themepark.

7/16/13 8:53:21 AM#47
Originally posted by asdar

Definition of Sandbox/Theme park that I use is that it's a scale that goes from pure sandbox to pure Theme park. Pure Sandbox would be Programming the game yourself, every choice is made by the player. Pure Theme park would be a movie, with no choices at all made by the player. Each feature can be defined as more or less sand this way, but Sand doesn't always equal good in my opinion.

Classes take the decision out of the players hands so it's more theme park than sand. I'm 100% for classes, but I'm also a Sandbox proponent. It's just one of the features that I think is more important than choice.

I think classes could be forced in a more sandbox way. Skill caps and limits, choices between skills where a class choice must be made and the like. For example you could make a choice that if you take this healing skill you can't take a 2h sword skill. You might still be able to take a 1h sword skill or archery skill. It's all fluid. That way if you wanted to be a healer you'd almost have to take a branch that led to healing skills over combat skills. Hybrids would then be players that decided they'd rather have this one skill over a certain healer skill, so they'd be less a healer, but maybe better overall, or in certain situations.

That gets complicated, but there's choices that make classes more sand. Straight up classes is not sand though.

Exactly.

You could remove the premade classes from a game, but if the skill trees are properly set up, the end result should be a class proper anyway.  If they aren't, you will always end up with 2 or 3 builds (1 if your Darkfall) that everyone chooses, and the game ends up sucking for all kinds of other reasons.

  Gallus85

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 1119

7/16/13 9:02:39 AM#48
Originally posted by thenetavenge

Are classes a sandbox feature... Maybe.

 

If you look at previous sandbox style games, several had classes.  The 'open/sandbox' nature was preserved as the character was not locked to any of these classes and they could be mixed to create hybrid classes.

 

SWG is a good example, it technically had classes; however, users were not locked into the classes, and could pick a mix of trees from several of the classes.  So you could have a Master Swordsman with some points in Fencer, some in Medic, some in artisan, etc.

 

There are games with no defined class trees, and are just a mix of skills.  However I have seen class-less games that are far from offering a sandbox experience as the skill choices are too limited or require a linear choice in the skill systems.

 

Based on SWG, as long as you aren't locked to a 'class' for your character, then they can work in a sandbox rather well.

 

My two cents.

The term sandbox has nothing to do with the class system.

Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  bcbully

Tipster

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 8252

7/16/13 9:16:28 AM#49
Originally posted by azzamasin

When I think of sandbox I think of total player freedom and choice.  With the recent speculation that EQN will feature classes does this really fit into a Sandbox mentality?

 

I am hoping that classes are nothing but a starting point and that there is "a lot" of freedom within the class structure and that it becomes possible that no 2 classes will be the same.

I with you. i hope they don't show us a game, then go through this massive redefining crap. "These are not 31 point talent trees, they are EVOLUTION LADDERS!." 

 

SOE delivered with Planetside 2. It was what they said it was. This is part of the reason I'm optimistic.

http://www.twitch.tv/sunshineNB
J.O.B. Daggerfalls BEST Gank Crew

  xxxxxx1

Novice Member

Joined: 7/26/06
Posts: 97

7/16/13 10:50:53 AM#50
Originally posted by zymurgeist
Sandboxes have nonlinear gameplay. There is no such thing as a "sandbox feature" just varying levels of nonlinearity.

I agree. It's a very simple concept between sandbox and theme park. It's all about nonlinear and linear gameplay in MMO design. 

  Justsomenoob

Novice Member

Joined: 10/20/10
Posts: 871

7/16/13 11:13:53 AM#51

While I don't think a sandbox game requires skill based progression vs classes, the skill based route does seem to lend itself to it better.

 

  SavageHorizon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 1853

7/16/13 1:02:16 PM#52
Originally posted by immodium

Like many have stated, no one is going to agree with what a sandbox is.

 

If I cant dig for stone/chop trees down(manipulating sand) and create a stone fort/wooden house(make a sand castle), It's not a sandbox IMO. Sandbox is the freedom to terraform the world, not the freedom of an open ended skill system.

Look at Minecraft, Everyone is equal in that game. What makes players different is not classes, it's what they have crafted for themselves. Classes are an RPG element, not a sandbox one. That's not to say you can't have classes in a sandbox game.

 

EDIT: I'd also like to add that sandbox elements, IMO have little to do with combat. It's more about crafting, and crafting classes. The only combat sandbox elements is the destruction of the games world, be it through battle or trolling. :)

And this is why i mentioned WurmOnline, everything you describe you can do in Wurm Online, it's Minecraft on steroids. I don't think for one moment that EQN will be anything like those two games, sandpark is what i guessing.

Coolermaster Cosmos II Case
Corsair AX1200W Modular PSU
Intel Core i7 3970X OC 4.50GHz
Asus P9X79 PRO Intel X7
16GB (4x4GB) DDR3 PC3-1866MHz
840 Series 250GB SSDs
Seagate Barracuda 2TB HDDs
EVGA SuperClocked GTX TITAN 6GB GDDR5 SLi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0i88t0Kacs

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 16588

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

7/16/13 1:12:42 PM#53
Originally posted by strangiato2112
Originally posted by azzamasin

When I think of sandbox I think of total player freedom and choice.  With the recent speculation that EQN will feature classes does this really fit into a Sandbox mentality?

 

I am hoping that classes are nothing but a starting point and that there is "a lot" of freedom within the class structure and that it becomes possible that no 2 classes will be the same.

Star Wars Galaxies had classes

Not exactly SWG NGE had classes, and their addition essentially destroyed the game. SWG prior to that had professions, professions that you could combine to essentially make your own class.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Gdemami

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7922

7/16/13 1:14:56 PM#54


Originally posted by azzamasin

When I think of sandbox I think of total player freedom and choice. 

You misunderstand the term freedom then.

  achesoma

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/05/05
Posts: 999

7/16/13 1:22:13 PM#55
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by strangiato2112
Originally posted by azzamasin

When I think of sandbox I think of total player freedom and choice.  With the recent speculation that EQN will feature classes does this really fit into a Sandbox mentality?

 

I am hoping that classes are nothing but a starting point and that there is "a lot" of freedom within the class structure and that it becomes possible that no 2 classes will be the same.

Star Wars Galaxies had classes

Not exactly SWG NGE had classes, and their addition essentially destroyed the game. SWG prior to that had professions, professions that you could combine to essentially make your own class.

I've always viewed pre NGE as a multi classing system than anything else.  Regardless, it was an awesome system.  Though I'm totally biased since it was my first MMO to play. 

  Gallus85

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 1119

7/16/13 1:32:29 PM#56
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by azzamasin

When I think of sandbox I think of total player freedom and choice. 

 

You misunderstand the term freedom then.

A game requires that there are rules that the players agree upon and goals to be reached.  A sandbox game is an oxymoron term in the way you're using it.  If sandbox means total freedom, that means there are no rules, and is by definition not a game.  If a game doesn't have a goal, it's not really a game.

Simcity and Spore for example are "sandboxes"... but Will Wright considers them Toys, not games.  They are virtual objects you play with and create your own games with.  This is because they have very few rules and there is no set goal for the player to achieve when your turn on something like SimCity.  Players invent their own rules and goals, but that means they make the toy into whatever game they deem fit.  But simcity as it stands before the player touches it is not a true game.

In an MMORPG, if it was a true sandbox, players would be able to do whatever they want.  This contradicts having rules for a true "game" and in turn would just be a virtual sandbox world or a toy.  It would be like Minecraft creativity mode the MMORPG or garry's mod online, which would not be conducive of "game-play."

MMORPGs need rules and boundaries so that it creates balanced and fair environment for players to co-exist in.  

A Class OR a skill point system is a boundary/rule. (Most skill point systems don't simply allow you to have ALL the skills, or make up any that you want "/Thunder-Thighs kick does 9999999999999 damage, unblockable, range 10000 meters"

Having content that's not possible to beat by a lvl 1 character is another boundry/rule.

The things people want in an MMORPG tend to be rules to make the game fun, challenging and fair for other players, and the more rules you have the less of a "sandbox" it is.  But also considering this, every MMORPG that people consider a "sandbox" is not a "true sandbox", most of them aren't even close to a true sandbox (Like SWG and UO).  They are Games, with some sandboxy feel to them.

Hope this clears up the misconceptions for a lot of people.

Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  dandurin

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/19/04
Posts: 498

7/16/13 1:33:34 PM#57
Originally posted by Waterlily
It's becoming very apparent that every person has a completely different definition of what is a sandbox.

A sandbox feature is no-more, no-less than User Generated Content.   That is by far the most useful definition.

 

There isn't really any such thing as "a sandbox" (ok maybe Second Life), games are just more "sandbox-y" or more "themepark-y" than other games.

 

Classes aren't a sandbox-y feature, as they limit user control, but that doesn't mean you can't have classes in a game that is very sandbox-y for other reasons.

 

When I hear Smedley say "EQN will be the largest Sandbox ever" I intepret that as meaning that there will be no games that are both larger AND more sandbox-y than EQN.     ie, it will be more sandboxy than the WoW family, larger than Wurm Online, and either larger or more sandboxy (or both) than ArcheAge.   (And/Or he's just blowing marketing smoke).

 

 

 

 

 

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19958

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

7/16/13 1:41:20 PM#58
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by azzamasin

When I think of sandbox I think of total player freedom and choice. 

 

You misunderstand the term freedom then.

A game requires that there are rules that the players agree upon and goals to be reached.  A sandbox game is an oxymoron term in the way you're using it.  If sandbox means total freedom, that means there are no rules, and is by definition not a game.  If a game doesn't have a goal, it's not really a game.

Simcity and Spore for example are "sandboxes"... but Will Wright considers them Toys, not games.  They are virtual objects you play with and create your own games with.  This is because they have very few rules and there is no set goal for the player to achieve when your turn on something like SimCity.  Players invent their own rules and goals, but that means they make the toy into whatever game they deem fit.  But simcity as it stands before the player touches it is not a true game.

In an MMORPG, if it was a true sandbox, players would be able to do whatever they want.  This contradicts having rules for a true "game" and in turn would just be a virtual sandbox world or a toy.  It would be like Minecraft creativity mode the MMORPG or garry's mod online, which would not be conducive of "game-play."

MMORPGs need rules and boundaries so that it creates balanced and fair environment for players to co-exist in.  

A Class OR a skill point system is a boundary/rule. (Most skill point systems don't simply allow you to have ALL the skills, or make up any that you want "/Thunder-Thighs kick does 9999999999999 damage, unblockable, range 10000 meters"

Having content that's not possible to beat by a lvl 1 character is another boundry/rule.

The things people want in an MMORPG tend to be rules to make the game fun, challenging and fair for other players, and the more rules you have the less of a "sandbox" it is.  But also considering this, every MMORPG that people consider a "sandbox" is not a "true sandbox", most of them aren't even close to a true sandbox (Like SWG and UO).  They are Games, with some sandboxy feel to them.

Hope this clears up the misconceptions for a lot of people.

It does, but at what point do these "rules/boundaries" flip a game from feeling more free (sandbox like) vs theme park?

Is it a combination of certain features?  Or centered around how it makes a player "feel".

EVE felt like a sandbox, yet has tons of rules and boundaries, but was a more enjoyable game for me than say Xyson, which had very little of anything to work with except a few toys in a big empty sandbox.

I always end up saying, "I'll know a sandbox once I've played one", and I can see where one man's sandbox is another's themepark in many cases.

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, "Meany", you speak as if these are bad things?
Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Gallus85

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 1119

7/16/13 1:48:24 PM#59
Originally posted by Kyleran

It does, but at what point do these "rules/boundaries" flip a game from feeling more free (sandbox like) vs theme park?

Is it a combination of certain features?  Or centered around

It's a subjective term.  What feels sandboxy to some people may feel themeparkish to other people, because different people care about different things.

Which is my point.  People throw the word around and assume their definition of it is the true meaning, yet very few people on these forums has actually grasped what a real sandbox MMO would look/play like.

Very few, if any, MMORPG to date that I know of has been a true sandbox (Wurm, Mortal Online, Eve, SWG, UO).  They are "Games" that have a nice sandboxy feel to them for many people, but are still Games with rules and boundries, so they're not true sandboxes.

Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  TheLizardbones

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10959

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

7/16/13 2:07:25 PM#60


Originally posted by dandurin

Originally posted by Waterlily It's becoming very apparent that every person has a completely different definition of what is a sandbox.
A sandbox feature is no-more, no-less than User Generated Content.   That is by far the most useful definition.

 

There isn't really any such thing as "a sandbox" (ok maybe Second Life), games are just more "sandbox-y" or more "themepark-y" than other games.

 

Classes aren't a sandbox-y feature, as they limit user control, but that doesn't mean you can't have classes in a game that is very sandbox-y for other reasons.

 

When I hear Smedley say "EQN will be the largest Sandbox ever" I intepret that as meaning that there will be no games that are both larger AND more sandbox-y than EQN.     ie, it will be more sandboxy than the WoW family, larger than Wurm Online, and either larger or more sandboxy (or both) than ArcheAge.   (And/Or he's just blowing marketing smoke).
 




Marketing smoke.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

5 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 » Search