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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Who wants camping back?

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448 posts found
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19928

7/15/13 10:07:46 PM#41
Originally posted by Rydeson
Originally posted by nariusseldon

nah .. i am glad those days are over.

Camping is boring to me. I play a game for gameplay, not for waiting around doing nothing or chatting.

 

If all you did was wait around and chat, that sounds like a personal problem...... I never had any problem finding a group or camp to enjoy.. and the PULLS were coming faster then we could kill em.... So many times we had to tell our puller to STOP because we needed some free time to rest.. LOL 

You have never taken a number, and camp a boss with multiple groups?

Even xp spots can be all taken with multiple group taking turns. How could i not wait when there is nothing to pull?

 

  DavisFlight

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2587

7/15/13 10:15:14 PM#42
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Rydeson
Originally posted by nariusseldon

nah .. i am glad those days are over.

Camping is boring to me. I play a game for gameplay, not for waiting around doing nothing or chatting.

 

If all you did was wait around and chat, that sounds like a personal problem...... I never had any problem finding a group or camp to enjoy.. and the PULLS were coming faster then we could kill em.... So many times we had to tell our puller to STOP because we needed some free time to rest.. LOL 

You have never taken a number, and camp a boss with multiple groups?

Nope, because I didn't play poorly designed games. I played DAoC.

 

  Chieftan

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/16/05
Posts: 1420

 
OP  7/15/13 10:54:00 PM#43
Originally posted by kyssari

I miss camping at times but at other times I don't. Personally I would love for it to make a return but not as the ONLY viable option but an option that is just as viable as questing etc.

Thank you!  All I'm saying is I wish they would present us with an alternative to questing and rushing thru dungeons.  Everquest never would have been successful if the camping mechanic wasn't fun for alot of people.

In SWTOR the Gree event actually had outdoor camping and it required a group.  The only problem was it was pointless to stick around longer than the 15 minutes it took to complete the quest objective.  Once that was done everybody scattered.

We all know the easy-solo-quest formula has just about been beat into the ground.  Whether its camping or something else, developers better start coming up with some new ideas.

5 hours of ESO videos...and counting

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLOxuLTBCUXiJYdTTHCv4xpbOWKZKaZ17-

  User Deleted
7/15/13 11:29:47 PM#44

I think this thread does a good job pointing out how MMO's focal point is in the social aspect of the game. The somewhat casualness of camping is something I somewhat miss, despite the disadvantages, it was still fun hanging out with people you enjoy socializing with and I think this is something that is terribly missed today.

Many players are too focused on their own progress and generally won't do anything for the sake of actually doing it. Every second spent has to have some reward and I sadly think previous MMO's has trivialized the whole experience down to that.

Now I don't mean to be grim but my favorite MMO's of all time to this day is still Ultima Online and Star Wars Galaxies because of how well you can casually play the game and socialize with others. Not many other MMO's since then allowed you to organize and build your own towns and cities or provide that degree of freedom within the environment.

Now its all about combat and combat mechanics and everything else is just lost or trivialized. What I believe separates great MMO's from the good ones today is which ones provides the best social tools and group activities IMO.

It just appears that too many MMO's are trying to cater to as many people as possible rather than trying to focus their game onto a target audience.

  twrule

Novice Member

Joined: 7/15/09
Posts: 1260

7/16/13 12:15:47 AM#45
 

No, thank you to bringing back camps as a main xp source. This is another classic case of players under the influence of nostalgia looking back and latching on to some incidental feature of the games they used to play and enjoy, wrongly associating that feature as one that somehow produces fun in all contexts.

I really enjoyed FFXI back in the day when you had to camp, but it wasn't the fact of camping that was enjoyable. Think about it: what attracted you to the game in the first place before you knew how the mechanics worked? For me, it was the promise of being able to establish myself in fictional worlds I had an affinity for (I played SWG and FFXI when I was younger among other MMOs), and have adventures alongside my friends.

When I think of having grand fantastical adventures and/or making an identity for myself in such a world, I don't think of finding a random corner in the middle of the wilderness to sit in and intentionally not move for hours on end (at least, not without building a village or something there).

Now, if there was an option that allowed (and encouraged) me and my friends to progress in a game that involved forming a small band that needed to stay together to survive outside town in most cases, but who would move about, either to explore, or better to explore while on a grand over-arching quest/mission (as was occasionally the case in FFXI, though quite rarely), then we might have something. THAT is adventuring, not squatting in a corner all day. It has to be open world though - instances, especially linear ones, ruin this whole dynamic by throwing together random players with no context or immersion.

 

 Originally posted by kyssari

 

The primary thing I miss in regards to this is the open world NONLINEAR Dungeons. That is by far the thing I miss the msot and wish would make a come back, and the reason that even today I enjoy playing Vanguard over pretty much every other MMO out there. Instanced linear dungeons get old real fast while open world nonlinear dungeons are much more fun and exciting to explore especially when mobs are respawning and you could easily get yourself lost and dying actually means something, making it a lot more dangerous and exciting all around, especially when you got all the random nameds dropping cool stuff but also respawning so you can actually farm them.

 

...Which leads me to agree with this. Exploring open world dungeons was one of my favorite things to do in all the earlier MMOs I played (SWG, FFXI, Lineage 2, EQ2 - hell I went back to some of these games on free trials just to solo explore a bit more). I do remember being really impressed the first time I played WoW's polished instanced dungeons (the earlier ones were arguably much less linear than the ones since BC), but they eventually became overdone and boring, with no feeling of exploration anymore, just the need to rush to the end. They were a cool way of presenting story, especially the ones that had you to embark on a lengthy questchain that lead up to them, explaining why you were there and why it was important, but otherwise...

From what I understand, there are still soem modern AAA MMOs that have such dungeons, though they are few. TERA I know has them, for example. As developers realize the instanced dungeon paradigm is a bit too played out to build an entire progression experience around anymore and start experimenting more with new forms of content, there is some hope that they will bring something reminiscent of these back I think. Honestly, I don't even care if they are dungeons - any excuse to navigate across a map progressively with a party in a way that is rewarding both xp wise and in other senses - I would be happy. Dynamic content may be a step in the right direction, but so far it doesn't strongly encourage people to form and stay in persistent groups when tackling open-world content, and simply grouping for short/simple themepark quests doesn't quite achieve the desired effect... 

TLDR: No to camping, yes to group-based open-world ADVENTURES.

  Mr_Mechanical

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/13
Posts: 88

7/16/13 12:26:48 AM#46
Originally posted by Uproar

Camping is fun.  I like camps.  I like camp checks.  I like clearing a camp.  I like leveling in camps.  I want camps.

 

What I don't want is camps that require 8+ hours (and that was once considered short).

I pretty much agree with what was said here.

 

Camps were some of the fondest memories i've had in MMO's starting w/ my years in FFXI.       Quest hubs today really are streamlined evolved and 'accessible to a broader audience" versions of camps.   Still the place people go when they wanna level up out in the world.    But there's no charm to quest hubs and quest grinding solo the way there is when camped with people for hours after earning your camp 'site' via patience, smarts, quickness, knowledge of terrain/spawns. etc.     

Personality and flavor go a long way for me in terms of whether I feel a task (in game) is bothersome or delightfully challenging and worth the payoff at the end.

So, I for sure raise my hand to the OP.   

Yes please!

  User Deleted
7/16/13 12:45:25 AM#47
No thanks. Hoping they have moved beyond static mob spawns.
  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 3023

I actually still like MMORPGs

7/16/13 1:11:03 AM#48

EQ and FFXI are still there actually. You can camp all you want, for the record :-p.

But I think most people just have nostalgia for a mechanic that seemed exciting when it was so new. I do think better group/multiplayer options are needed. Biggest problem with MMOs is this thought that getting to end game is the only point.

When did RPGs start having an end game? I don't ever recall playing Dungeons and Dragons and thinking "man we gotta hurry up and get to 20 so we can start the end game!" or playing an Elder Scrolls game thinking the same. Even the Diablo series!

Why are MMORPGs the only genre in the history of video games where 90% is considered pointless and the "real" game happens only after you have surpassed everything? Huge flaw in my opinion.

  twrule

Novice Member

Joined: 7/15/09
Posts: 1260

7/16/13 1:25:29 AM#49
Originally posted by Fendel84M

EQ and FFXI are still there actually. You can camp all you want, for the record :-p.

I don't know about EQ, but with its most recent expansion, camping in small parties is pretty much a thing of the past in FFXI. Now, from what I understand, you'll only find huge alliances of 18 people sitting in a general area killing whatever spawns (due to some changes in how xp rewards work). Those alliances are usually kept going perpetually with people coming and going over time. It's not *impossible* to be social in those contexts, but it's not exactly as intimate as a smaller group.

  DavisFlight

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2587

7/16/13 1:30:03 AM#50
Originally posted by Fendel84M

EQ and FFXI are still there actually. You can camp all you want, for the record :-p.

Ah, the dumbest argument in the book...

 

No, the games as we knew and loved them have long ago been patched away.

  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2461

World > Quest Progression

7/16/13 2:19:00 AM#51

I think it would be pretty easy to have both quest and grind progression where you actually can choose.

 

Take away quest xp and just reward items.

 

If items also randomly dropped from mobs you could choose either the quest route or the camp route.  Both would offer the same amount of xp, you need the kills for the quest afterall, and in the time it would take to run back to the quest giver for the item reward one could have dropped from a mob.

 

I think it's a tad silly to affer the biggest amount of progression to an end result and is why questing often feels like a drag.  You spend 20 minutes gaining virtually nothing and getting a little shot at the end which is just enough incentive to do it again.

  Cephus404

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 3697

7/16/13 2:19:01 AM#52
Originally posted by Jairoe03

I think this thread does a good job pointing out how MMO's focal point is in the social aspect of the game. The somewhat casualness of camping is something I somewhat miss, despite the disadvantages, it was still fun hanging out with people you enjoy socializing with and I think this is something that is terribly missed today.

But this is something you can still do today without camping.  You could always do it.  You don't have to have mandated down-time to talk to people you enjoy being around.  I fail to see why so many people think that this bad mechanic is the only way to get a favorable social result.

Many players are too focused on their own progress and generally won't do anything for the sake of actually doing it. Every second spent has to have some reward and I sadly think previous MMO's has trivialized the whole experience down to that.

Yet isn't that the choice of the individual?  If that's what other people want to do, what business is it of yours?  You can stop and shoot the breeze any time you want to, it's your choice.  You have no right to force your choices on anyone else.

Now I don't mean to be grim but my favorite MMO's of all time to this day is still Ultima Online and Star Wars Galaxies because of how well you can casually play the game and socialize with others. Not many other MMO's since then allowed you to organize and build your own towns and cities or provide that degree of freedom within the environment.

You can casually play the game and socialize with anyone you want to in any game out there, what are you talking about?

Now its all about combat and combat mechanics and everything else is just lost or trivialized. What I believe separates great MMO's from the good ones today is which ones provides the best social tools and group activities IMO.

It just appears that too many MMO's are trying to cater to as many people as possible rather than trying to focus their game onto a target audience.

That's always been the way it's worked, sorry.  Businesses are in business to make money and they do that by appealing to the largest audience possible.  It's just that there is a larger audience available since MMOs went mainstream.

Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
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  Cephus404

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 3697

7/16/13 2:20:31 AM#53
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Fendel84M

EQ and FFXI are still there actually. You can camp all you want, for the record :-p.

Ah, the dumbest argument in the book...

 

No, the games as we knew and loved them have long ago been patched away.

They've been patched away because the majority of players didn't like them like that.  Why is that so hard for you people to understand?

Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None

  craftseeker

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/11/09
Posts: 632

7/16/13 2:25:29 AM#54
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Fendel84M

EQ and FFXI are still there actually. You can camp all you want, for the record :-p.

Ah, the dumbest argument in the book...

No, the games as we knew and loved them have long ago been patched away.

They've been patched away because the majority of players didn't like them like that.  Why is that so hard for you people to understand?

Oh we understand it all right, we just do not like it and are still disappointed by the shortsightedness of the developers. I could make a personal attack here but I will leave that to you.

  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2461

World > Quest Progression

7/16/13 2:36:43 AM#55
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by Jairoe03

I think this thread does a good job pointing out how MMO's focal point is in the social aspect of the game. The somewhat casualness of camping is something I somewhat miss, despite the disadvantages, it was still fun hanging out with people you enjoy socializing with and I think this is something that is terribly missed today.

But this is something you can still do today without camping.  You could always do it.  You don't have to have mandated down-time to talk to people you enjoy being around.  I fail to see why so many people think that this bad mechanic is the only way to get a favorable social result.

Aside from the few people that "camp" general chat most people want to be doing something while they socialize.  MMOs do a great job of this, too good a job.  Now the doing something involves just me, myself and I because I can progress just as easily without the hassle.  No one said it was the only way, just the only one so far to get results.

Many players are too focused on their own progress and generally won't do anything for the sake of actually doing it. Every second spent has to have some reward and I sadly think previous MMO's has trivialized the whole experience down to that.

Yet isn't that the choice of the individual?  If that's what other people want to do, what business is it of yours?  You can stop and shoot the breeze any time you want to, it's your choice.  You have no right to force your choices on anyone else.

Again, socializing within playing the game.  Sure, no one should force another to participate but the common gameplay mechanics actually discourage interaction.  This just doesn't make sense in an MMO setting.

Now I don't mean to be grim but my favorite MMO's of all time to this day is still Ultima Online and Star Wars Galaxies because of how well you can casually play the game and socialize with others. Not many other MMO's since then allowed you to organize and build your own towns and cities or provide that degree of freedom within the environment.

You can casually play the game and socialize with anyone you want to in any game out there, what are you talking about?

He's talking about actually building a community with structures and player organization, not just hanging out at the auction house.

Now its all about combat and combat mechanics and everything else is just lost or trivialized. What I believe separates great MMO's from the good ones today is which ones provides the best social tools and group activities IMO.

It just appears that too many MMO's are trying to cater to as many people as possible rather than trying to focus their game onto a target audience.

That's always been the way it's worked, sorry.  Businesses are in business to make money and they do that by appealing to the largest audience possible.  It's just that there is a larger audience available since MMOs went mainstream.

True, there are more players and if you consider the tenure of the online populace in general you can see why MMOs can suffer social wise.  Companies are in it to make money but they have tried by copying the MMO with the largest audiance possible, which itself lost 12% of it's paying base this year.  I have no seeing eye but I have a feeling that things are shifting.  Making money for an MMO means keeping people playing it.  When players feel more invested in an MMO they stay and the best way to accomplish that, minus good gameplay of course, is other people.

 

It won't take many titles to get it right to see it's effect of more social MMOs.

  cydoneq

Novice Member

Joined: 7/15/13
Posts: 59

7/16/13 3:10:41 AM#56

Quests i would be doing or not:

Collecting 10 stone/wood/etc what the empire is needing and really can using. // hell yeah

killing 10 bandits that want to attack a little village, and if i dont kill them their will really attack the village // hm mabye, if im in the mood and the price is right.

killing 10 rats for gold and xp. // hell no

  LoverNoFighter

Novice Member

Joined: 9/05/12
Posts: 334

SWG pre cu > all

7/16/13 3:11:33 AM#57
Instancing - the worst thing ever invented.
  emperorwings

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/25/06
Posts: 1366

7/16/13 3:19:50 AM#58
Don't like it unless there is an open group system. Saves kills getting stolen or unable to progress a quest because a camp is already there. I prefer to progress through grinding and questing.

This isn't a signature, you just think it is.

  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5578

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

7/16/13 3:34:21 AM#59

Camps? -No.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  Rydeson

Elite Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 3376

7/16/13 4:53:25 AM#60

     OK peeps.. I have some news for you.. especially for the ones that are anti-camp posters...... LFG dungeon is the same thing as camping...... HELLO..  The only difference is that you have your own private camp that doesn't respawn vs. one that is in the open zone..   Yelling out for a camp check as it was back in the day of EQ, could of been a pain during prime time..  Even I took a number in line, but it is what it is..  That doesn't mean that "camping" is bad, it just means there aren't enough locations for everyone..  So instead of protesting that camping is bad, why not ask for more camp locations..  Why do you think instancing was created.. It was the CHEAP easy way of giving everyone a "camp" location with a click of a button.. 

     Now as for what some of us are asking, at least for me, is that I advocate that everyone should be able to solo 90% of the zone.. While making sure that there are ample camp locations for the groups..  I do like how the one person suggested random spawns inside the camp.. That was done to some degree with EQ, but I would like to see it taken a little farther.. Instead of 1 random mob spawning, maybe allow 2 or 3 randoms.. This will spice things up.. I might even suggest changing the timer per spawn location, and not just ONE timer for all..  This way you can't seriously time with accuracy.. 

     The thing I don't like about doing the LFG dungeon craw stuff is that you are always on the move, and if for some reason I have to take a break or get distracted, the group has to wait as well..  With camps, once it's broken, normally it's easy for one or more to not be present in the fight.. Doorbell rings, not everything is lost.. I for one get tired of button mashing NON stop too with the fast paced combat we have now.. YES, I like to sit and rest between fights..  Personally I find it insane and crazy for a caster to wipe out 20 mobs in a pull, go OOM, then eat a biscuit and be back to full power in seconds.. Really?   Ha Ha Ha..   Today's mmo feel like an arcade shooting gallery.. It's like going to the grocery store and say you went hunting for food..  lol

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