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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » POLL: Do you want mini map in EQN?

8 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Last Search
145 posts found
  Draedz

Novice Member

Joined: 6/04/13
Posts: 48

7/14/13 1:18:19 PM#61
I don't think mini maps have a place in fantasy MMOs.   On the other hand, opening a map that has details to it is not out of the question.  
  tank017

Novice Member

Joined: 7/09/06
Posts: 2206

7/14/13 1:19:25 PM#62

nope,its a huge immersion killer.

 

just give me a compass and my brain,that'll do.

  Kiyoris

Novice Member

Joined: 7/13/13
Posts: 356

7/14/13 1:27:13 PM#63

Hey you guys,

Would you be interested if they gave a cloth version like this with the collector's edition:

  Aceshighhhh

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/11
Posts: 187

7/14/13 1:32:13 PM#64
Originally posted by Kiyoris

Hey you guys,

Would you be interested if they gave a cloth version like this with the collector's edition:

Definitely. I'm always down to buy some physical goodies

  ste2000

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/28/04
Posts: 4735

7/14/13 1:34:43 PM#65

Nope

I didn't need any Map in EQ, I knew every zone by heart........................but I don't mind if there is one.

I say NO to minimap and YES to a generic map that you can edit yourself.

  waynejr2

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3735

RIP City of Heroes!

7/14/13 1:36:41 PM#66
Would it prevent people from using some kind of quest  helping addon to walk them through the game?  If so, then no minimap.
  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2440

World > Quest Progression

7/14/13 1:50:58 PM#67
Editable maps would be fantastic!

I think a regular map is fine, depending on what's on it. Topographical would be nice, similar to PS2 where you can see features of terrain and major structures. I would be up to you to put in information such as known cities and towns but also land marks you see (shrines, entrances to caves etc.).

Here's the kicker: fog. Until you walk in an area you don't know what's there. Not zone fog like WoW but by a radius of your character. Speculation: Dave mentioned being able to progress discovering the frontier. I wouldn't be surprised if radial fog is part of that.)

If cartography-ish progression like this was added I think having at least a map is fine. Mini-map... eh, be more adventurous without it.

So "No" vote for me.
  Gallus85

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 1113

7/14/13 1:57:38 PM#68

I'm going to take the road that would appeal to both sets of players.

Have a mini map in game.

Allow said mimimap to be easily hidden (Options menu button, rightclick/hide, etc).

That way if you really want a minimap, it's there.

If you don't want a minimap, you never have to see it.

Boom.  I hate being so smart.  Wait, no I don't.

Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  DavisFlight

Elite Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2586

7/14/13 5:21:01 PM#69
Originally posted by Gallus85

I'm going to take the road that would appeal to both sets of players.

Have a mini map in game.

Allow said mimimap to be easily hidden (Options menu button, rightclick/hide, etc).

That way if you really want a minimap, it's there.

If you don't want a minimap, you never have to see it.

Boom.  I hate being so smart.  Wait, no I don't.

Except that doesn't work.
 

When people say they don't want a mini map, they're not saying "I don't want to look at a minimap" they're saying they don't want the game designed around it.

 

Sure, I can turn off the quest compass in Oblivion, but then I'd never be able to play the fucking game because the game assumes you're using it.

 

People want the MMO to be designed around a lack of a map. To be able to have a map making skill. For there to be value in group leaders who know there way around a dungeon. For there to be value in exploring and discovering new things. For the world to be more immersive. For exploration to be baking into quests, not assuming you're just going to use /map the whole time.

 

Boom, I hate people who don't understand game design but pretend like they do.

  Dejoblue

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/11
Posts: 295

I'll give them heroics...and when everyone is super...no one will be.

7/14/13 5:42:05 PM#70

Most EQ zones do not have a map...it takes a lot of effort to alt tab back and forth all the time it is simply easier to learn the zones.

 

I am for no maps whatsoever.

 

  Gallus85

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 1113

7/14/13 8:49:26 PM#71
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Gallus85

I'm going to take the road that would appeal to both sets of players.

Have a mini map in game.

Allow said mimimap to be easily hidden (Options menu button, rightclick/hide, etc).

That way if you really want a minimap, it's there.

If you don't want a minimap, you never have to see it.

Boom.  I hate being so smart.  Wait, no I don't.

Except that doesn't work.
 

When people say they don't want a mini map, they're not saying "I don't want to look at a minimap" they're saying they don't want the game designed around it.

 

Sure, I can turn off the quest compass in Oblivion, but then I'd never be able to play the fucking game because the game assumes you're using it.

 

People want the MMO to be designed around a lack of a map. To be able to have a map making skill. For there to be value in group leaders who know there way around a dungeon. For there to be value in exploring and discovering new things. For the world to be more immersive. For exploration to be baking into quests, not assuming you're just going to use /map the whole time.

 

Boom, I hate people who don't understand game design but pretend like they do.

You suggest that an industry professional doesn't understand game design yet you can't even imagine how a game can be made to accommodate both preferences?  That's a bit presumptuous of you, and incorrect.

Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  Greez

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/03/13
Posts: 104

7/14/13 8:53:17 PM#72
The problem with optional maps or optional anything is that if you get to the point where you are like: "Where is guy X?" people will say: "Why don't you just look at the map, noob?" Game customization mostly works for single player games, MMO's generally should decide what they want to do.
  DavisFlight

Elite Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2586

7/14/13 10:41:51 PM#73
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Gallus85

I'm going to take the road that would appeal to both sets of players.

Have a mini map in game.

Allow said mimimap to be easily hidden (Options menu button, rightclick/hide, etc).

That way if you really want a minimap, it's there.

If you don't want a minimap, you never have to see it.

Boom.  I hate being so smart.  Wait, no I don't.

Except that doesn't work.
 

When people say they don't want a mini map, they're not saying "I don't want to look at a minimap" they're saying they don't want the game designed around it.

 

Sure, I can turn off the quest compass in Oblivion, but then I'd never be able to play the fucking game because the game assumes you're using it.

 

People want the MMO to be designed around a lack of a map. To be able to have a map making skill. For there to be value in group leaders who know there way around a dungeon. For there to be value in exploring and discovering new things. For the world to be more immersive. For exploration to be baking into quests, not assuming you're just going to use /map the whole time.

 

Boom, I hate people who don't understand game design but pretend like they do.

You suggest that an industry professional doesn't understand game design yet you can't even imagine how a game can be made to accommodate both preferences?  That's a bit presumptuous of you, and incorrect.

If you're a designer, it's no surprise MMOs have been garbage for 8 years. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. I took about your entire argument and gave examples, and the best you could say was "nuh uh".

  Gallus85

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 1113

7/14/13 10:57:41 PM#74
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Gallus85

I'm going to take the road that would appeal to both sets of players.

Have a mini map in game.

Allow said mimimap to be easily hidden (Options menu button, rightclick/hide, etc).

That way if you really want a minimap, it's there.

If you don't want a minimap, you never have to see it.

Boom.  I hate being so smart.  Wait, no I don't.

Except that doesn't work.
 

When people say they don't want a mini map, they're not saying "I don't want to look at a minimap" they're saying they don't want the game designed around it.

 

Sure, I can turn off the quest compass in Oblivion, but then I'd never be able to play the fucking game because the game assumes you're using it.

 

People want the MMO to be designed around a lack of a map. To be able to have a map making skill. For there to be value in group leaders who know there way around a dungeon. For there to be value in exploring and discovering new things. For the world to be more immersive. For exploration to be baking into quests, not assuming you're just going to use /map the whole time.

 

Boom, I hate people who don't understand game design but pretend like they do.

You suggest that an industry professional doesn't understand game design yet you can't even imagine how a game can be made to accommodate both preferences?  That's a bit presumptuous of you, and incorrect.

If you're a designer, it's no surprise MMOs have been garbage for 8 years. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. I took about your entire argument and gave examples, and the best you could say was "nuh uh".

You simply stated that games are "designed" around the use of a minimap(then gave the example of oblivion's compass, which I might be rusty on my Army knowledge but a compass is not a map) and said they're designed in such a way that without using the minimap you would not be able to play the game.  I disagree.  In fact I have a 3D monitor and often times HUD stuff looks bad or does not work in 3D, so I turn off the HUD completely.  TES series is where I have spent many hours playing in 3D and it is completely playable without the compass.

Further more EQ has downloadable maps, that players can choose* to use, but the game is completely playable without them.  So there's a working example right there.  Vanguard has a minimap but the game is completely playable without it.  I could go on and on.

You're simply confused on the subject.  You can create a game to have a minimap for those who want it but not make it essential to the game.

There has also been a lot of good MMORPGs in the past 8 years.  Making blanket statements like that show me you're too emotional to make objective or rational commentary on anything.

Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  hockeyplayr

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/27/10
Posts: 558

7/14/13 11:11:15 PM#75
I voted yes.  I'm not a fan of getting lost. 
  DavisFlight

Elite Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2586

7/14/13 11:59:06 PM#76
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Gallus85

I'm going to take the road that would appeal to both sets of players.

Have a mini map in game.

Allow said mimimap to be easily hidden (Options menu button, rightclick/hide, etc).

That way if you really want a minimap, it's there.

If you don't want a minimap, you never have to see it.

Boom.  I hate being so smart.  Wait, no I don't.

Except that doesn't work.
 

When people say they don't want a mini map, they're not saying "I don't want to look at a minimap" they're saying they don't want the game designed around it.

 

Sure, I can turn off the quest compass in Oblivion, but then I'd never be able to play the fucking game because the game assumes you're using it.

 

People want the MMO to be designed around a lack of a map. To be able to have a map making skill. For there to be value in group leaders who know there way around a dungeon. For there to be value in exploring and discovering new things. For the world to be more immersive. For exploration to be baking into quests, not assuming you're just going to use /map the whole time.

 

Boom, I hate people who don't understand game design but pretend like they do.

You suggest that an industry professional doesn't understand game design yet you can't even imagine how a game can be made to accommodate both preferences?  That's a bit presumptuous of you, and incorrect.

If you're a designer, it's no surprise MMOs have been garbage for 8 years. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. I took about your entire argument and gave examples, and the best you could say was "nuh uh".

You simply stated that games are "designed" around the use of a minimap(then gave the example of oblivion's compass, which I might be rusty on my Army knowledge but a compass is not a map) and said they're designed in such a way that without using the minimap you would not be able to play the game.  I disagree.  In fact I have a 3D monitor and often times HUD stuff looks bad or does not work in 3D, so I turn off the HUD completely.  TES series is where I have spent many hours playing in 3D and it is completely playable without the compass.

Stopped reading there, because it is literally impossible to do it. The vast majority of the quests give you a point marked on your map and tell you to go there. If you don't use the compass or map, you cannot finish the quest, as you don't get any directions from the dialogue. In a similar way, many MMOs just mark things on your map or minimap, and if you "choose not to use them" you literally cannot complete the quests.

 

  Gallus85

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 1113

7/15/13 1:02:37 AM#77
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Gallus85

I'm going to take the road that would appeal to both sets of players.

Have a mini map in game.

Allow said mimimap to be easily hidden (Options menu button, rightclick/hide, etc).

That way if you really want a minimap, it's there.

If you don't want a minimap, you never have to see it.

Boom.  I hate being so smart.  Wait, no I don't.

Except that doesn't work.
 

When people say they don't want a mini map, they're not saying "I don't want to look at a minimap" they're saying they don't want the game designed around it.

 

Sure, I can turn off the quest compass in Oblivion, but then I'd never be able to play the fucking game because the game assumes you're using it.

 

People want the MMO to be designed around a lack of a map. To be able to have a map making skill. For there to be value in group leaders who know there way around a dungeon. For there to be value in exploring and discovering new things. For the world to be more immersive. For exploration to be baking into quests, not assuming you're just going to use /map the whole time.

 

Boom, I hate people who don't understand game design but pretend like they do.

You suggest that an industry professional doesn't understand game design yet you can't even imagine how a game can be made to accommodate both preferences?  That's a bit presumptuous of you, and incorrect.

If you're a designer, it's no surprise MMOs have been garbage for 8 years. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. I took about your entire argument and gave examples, and the best you could say was "nuh uh".

You simply stated that games are "designed" around the use of a minimap(then gave the example of oblivion's compass, which I might be rusty on my Army knowledge but a compass is not a map) and said they're designed in such a way that without using the minimap you would not be able to play the game.  I disagree.  In fact I have a 3D monitor and often times HUD stuff looks bad or does not work in 3D, so I turn off the HUD completely.  TES series is where I have spent many hours playing in 3D and it is completely playable without the compass.

Stopped reading there, because it is literally impossible to do it. The vast majority of the quests give you a point marked on your map and tell you to go there. If you don't use the compass or map, you cannot finish the quest, as you don't get any directions from the dialogue. In a similar way, many MMOs just mark things on your map or minimap, and if you "choose not to use them" you literally cannot complete the quests.

 

A lot of MMORPGs generally give you some sort of text dialog to go with the quest.  "We're getting raided on the roads by bandits to west of town, go kill them".  You don't need a minimap to head west and look for bandits.

In fact, if you actually take the time to read most MMORPG quest dialog, it gives you a ton of hints/clues where to look for the mobs or items to collect.  Sometimes they outright tell you in plain English. (Most people don't know this because they tend to not even read the dialog.)

Also, I wouldn't expect this to even be an issue because EQN is probably going to be very light on the "quests".  Expect more of a dynamic experience.  Where you explore and run into situations and events and participate in them.  They're not going to make EQN a series of quests sending you all over the place to kill 10 rats.  This has already been said.

Also, even in original EQ, there was no map and the NPCs often gave you little or no guidance on where to go.

They'd say something like "Bring me 16 greater lightstones".  You would have no idea what mob they dropped off of or that they were actually 2 zones away.  You ended up just running around aimlessly until you found what you were sent to do.

We managed to make it through EQ alive somehow.

In any case, your statements clearly show a lack of imagination.  You can have a game with a minimap, not designed to require it.

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  User Deleted
7/15/13 3:09:03 AM#78
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Gallus85

I'm going to take the road that would appeal to both sets of players.

Have a mini map in game.

Allow said mimimap to be easily hidden (Options menu button, rightclick/hide, etc).

That way if you really want a minimap, it's there.

If you don't want a minimap, you never have to see it.

Boom.  I hate being so smart.  Wait, no I don't.

Except that doesn't work.
 

When people say they don't want a mini map, they're not saying "I don't want to look at a minimap" they're saying they don't want the game designed around it.

 

Sure, I can turn off the quest compass in Oblivion, but then I'd never be able to play the fucking game because the game assumes you're using it.

 

People want the MMO to be designed around a lack of a map. To be able to have a map making skill. For there to be value in group leaders who know there way around a dungeon. For there to be value in exploring and discovering new things. For the world to be more immersive. For exploration to be baking into quests, not assuming you're just going to use /map the whole time.

 

Boom, I hate people who don't understand game design but pretend like they do.

You suggest that an industry professional doesn't understand game design yet you can't even imagine how a game can be made to accommodate both preferences?  That's a bit presumptuous of you, and incorrect.

If you're a designer, it's no surprise MMOs have been garbage for 8 years. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. I took about your entire argument and gave examples, and the best you could say was "nuh uh".

You simply stated that games are "designed" around the use of a minimap(then gave the example of oblivion's compass, which I might be rusty on my Army knowledge but a compass is not a map) and said they're designed in such a way that without using the minimap you would not be able to play the game.  I disagree.  In fact I have a 3D monitor and often times HUD stuff looks bad or does not work in 3D, so I turn off the HUD completely.  TES series is where I have spent many hours playing in 3D and it is completely playable without the compass.

Stopped reading there, because it is literally impossible to do it. The vast majority of the quests give you a point marked on your map and tell you to go there. If you don't use the compass or map, you cannot finish the quest, as you don't get any directions from the dialogue. In a similar way, many MMOs just mark things on your map or minimap, and if you "choose not to use them" you literally cannot complete the quests.

 

A lot of MMORPGs generally give you some sort of text dialog to go with the quest.  "We're getting raided on the roads by bandits to west of town, go kill them".  You don't need a minimap to head west and look for bandits.

In fact, if you actually take the time to read most MMORPG quest dialog, it gives you a ton of hints/clues where to look for the mobs or items to collect.  Sometimes they outright tell you in plain English. (Most people don't know this because they tend to not even read the dialog.)

Also, I wouldn't expect this to even be an issue because EQN is probably going to be very light on the "quests".  Expect more of a dynamic experience.  Where you explore and run into situations and events and participate in them.  They're not going to make EQN a series of quests sending you all over the place to kill 10 rats.  This has already been said.

Also, even in original EQ, there was no map and the NPCs often gave you little or no guidance on where to go.

They'd say something like "Bring me 16 greater lightstones".  You would have no idea what mob they dropped off of or that they were actually 2 zones away.  You ended up just running around aimlessly until you found what you were sent to do.

We managed to make it through EQ alive somehow.

In any case, your statements clearly show a lack of imagination.  You can have a game with a minimap, not designed to require it.

Yes, have the minimap as a inventory item with the vaguest geographical features only and have the quest mark a general location or direction to head to without saying anymore. Boom, no one's happy!

  hMJem

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 468

7/15/13 3:44:28 AM#79

A map ruins YOUR experience? Just never press M. The minimap compass usually isnt useful unless you minimize it all the way. And even then I think most players hit M to look where they need to go

 

Just don't hit M. No one is forcing you to. You can read every quest log and such as you want.

  User Deleted
7/15/13 3:46:02 AM#80
Yes to mini-maps, no to quest trackers. You should have to read your quests to understand where you are going, but I don't think you should need to get out a pen and paper to jot down directions. Having maps with points of interest and towns is fine.  
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