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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » Why SOE doesnt care about you

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65 posts found
  User Deleted
7/13/13 2:19:39 PM#41

You will never match wow because wow has people who would never of played an MMO still playing.  Trying to target that audience 15 years after EQ helped start this genre isn't going to happen.

  Xevv

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/09
Posts: 47

7/13/13 2:38:56 PM#42
Originally posted by bayanmerkid

Everquest had 450,000 subscribers in 2003, Everquest 2 when it was subscription based had over 500,000, since going ftp it has tripled in players. World of Warcraft had 12 million subscribers in late 2010.

 Alot of those 450k dont even play mmo's anymore Im sure. Theyve moved on with their lives.

I mean I havent...but most people I know from back then have. If I was in charge of making the game I wouldnt even care a little about getting the "original" demographic to play the game. Way better ways to make alot more money.

And you better believe making money is what they care about.

 

  Antiquated

Novice Member

Joined: 3/08/13
Posts: 479

7/13/13 2:43:37 PM#43
Originally posted by Margulis

Oh the overly broad definition of "clone" argument again.....  "all mmo's are clones you push buttons!!" 

Try defining "troll" some time...every other poster is a troll, for some readers.

That's why gamer shorthand exists; so we can use it in overbroad definitions or argue that it should be applied more narrowly (whichever suits our argument-of-the-moment).  SEE: Sandbox.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11896

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

7/13/13 2:45:51 PM#44
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by MMOGamer71

Point is WoW is a clone

of what exactly?

Everquest.

 

I know you don't accept that and, if you only compare the level-based class-restricted gear-dependent raid endgame fantasy MMOs with each other, WOW and EQ look very different. I leave it up to you to figure out the flaw in that process.

  waynejr2

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3711

RIP City of Heroes!

7/13/13 2:52:14 PM#45
Originally posted by Vayman

So maybe WoW took some MMO concepts that were already in the industry and packaged them with their brand. Okay.

But the term "WoW Clone" isn't implying that WoW did something first, or was entirely originally all on its own. It's a reference to the success Blizzard had with the product and how many game companies since have tried to capture that same success.

I will say that for a feature to be part of a wow clone is MUST BE original to wow. 

If you try to play it the other way here is the stupid kind of logic it end up with.

EQ feature ->CLONED TO WOW->CLONED TO WOWCLONE#1->CLONED TO WOWCLONE#2.

If your logic followed, WOWCLONE#2 should not be called a clone of WOW but a clone of WOWCLONE#1.  But it's not.  It's blindly devoting it all to WOW.  In effect you are saying, it doesn't matter who created a feature as long as wow has BUT as soon as someone uses post WOW, then it matters and is a wow clone.  How dumb is that logic.

WOW is a EQ1 clone.  Like it or not. The roots of these games is DND.  DND has chainmail as it's root.

  VincerKaden

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/06
Posts: 460

7/13/13 4:10:25 PM#46
Originally posted by waynejr2
Originally posted by Vayman

So maybe WoW took some MMO concepts that were already in the industry and packaged them with their brand. Okay.

But the term "WoW Clone" isn't implying that WoW did something first, or was entirely originally all on its own. It's a reference to the success Blizzard had with the product and how many game companies since have tried to capture that same success.

I will say that for a feature to be part of a wow clone is MUST BE original to wow. 

If you try to play it the other way here is the stupid kind of logic it end up with.

EQ feature ->CLONED TO WOW->CLONED TO WOWCLONE#1->CLONED TO WOWCLONE#2.

If your logic followed, WOWCLONE#2 should not be called a clone of WOW but a clone of WOWCLONE#1.  But it's not.  It's blindly devoting it all to WOW.  In effect you are saying, it doesn't matter who created a feature as long as wow has BUT as soon as someone uses post WOW, then it matters and is a wow clone.  How dumb is that logic.

WOW is a EQ1 clone.  Like it or not. The roots of these games is DND.  DND has chainmail as it's root.

/shrug I'm not the one who throws around the term "WoW clone" in my posts. It's a rather meaningless discussion all things considered since no "side" will ever come to an agreement, nor would any "side" ever achieve anything if they happened to be proven right somehow.

It's just my observation that MMO games may have trended they way they have - as far as what features are prevalent - because of the success of WoW, not necessarily who originally conceived of a given feature.

Calling something a "WoW Clone" is an easily understandable albeit arguably inaccurate descriptor. No reason for anyone to take umbrage with it, in my opinion.

  Xthos

Elite Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2627

7/13/13 4:15:04 PM#47

Uhm....then why do they send me birthday and Christmas cards, ask me how I am doing, offer me limited things that surely they do not offer to everyone, and even invite me to their parties?

 

I feel the love.

 

  Dejoblue

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/11
Posts: 295

I'll give them heroics...and when everyone is super...no one will be.

7/13/13 4:22:31 PM#48

Yes, SOE hates our guts so much that they have EQMac open still and saved Vanguard and are even releasing new content for Vanguard...those jerks, stop hatin on your players!

I do not care that they have said over and over that EQN is not for EQ or EQ2 players, I am an EQ player, I was first, this is BS it reminds me of when Metallica sold out with the Black Album, SOE are SELLOUTS!

 

SELLOUTS!

  noncley

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/16/12
Posts: 619

7/13/13 5:02:31 PM#49
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by MMOGamer71

Point is WoW is a clone

of what exactly?

Yeah, what was WoW copying?  

  Xthos

Elite Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2627

7/13/13 5:14:34 PM#50
Originally posted by noncley
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by MMOGamer71

Point is WoW is a clone

of what exactly?

Yeah, what was WoW copying?  

Imo the direction of game play mechanics, like instances and such, game play mechanics that I thought were ruining EQ (You would guess correctly that I tried the WoW beta and never bought it).  I say direction, because they took the mechanics and access and put them on steroids.  Blizzard is good at copying concepts, and even striking first, like they did when WAR was coming out (if memory is accurate, been a while). 

 

They have the money to incorporate things others are doing, then picking and choosing what works, or tweaking it to add to WoW.  It has made them a lot of money.  I mean you can argue everything is a copy, but really, you don't have to dig that deep.  WoW felt like a more accessible/easy/convienient  EQ/DAoC mashup in concept to me, without DAoCs system depth.

 

That was my feelings of WoW when I played the beta, which is of course my opinion.

 

 

  bayanmerkid

Novice Member

Joined: 1/23/13
Posts: 6

 
OP  7/13/13 5:14:49 PM#51
Just to clarify this wasnt a post about how this game is going to be WoW or easymode or anything of the sort. What I was trying to get at is that people have this idea that SOE will be going after a niche of players who want EQ1 remade. When I say its going to be familiar to WoW, what is mean is that people who have played WoW in the past or for that matter any popular MMO be it GW1 2 or SWTOR, will easily be able to pick the game up and find some familiarity.
  Greez

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/03/13
Posts: 104

7/13/13 5:15:38 PM#52
Originally posted by bayanmerkid

When a very large company designs an MMO they will obviously go after their largest possible player base

I really hate it when people prop up like this trying to act like they're the company's publisher or something. There are 2 problems with that:

It doesn't affect you personally well at all if a company is not driven by your enjoyment of the game. Why would you support, promote, or excuse this is beyond me. Yes, that company wants to make money. That shouldn't mean squat to you. You should denounce that. You should tell them they're greedy. You should never ever forgive or accept the hyper greedyfication of a company unless you basically want to be surrounded by Zynga clones. That only occurs because we allow it. It only becomes profitable because we allow it. That's why people who like those things get bashed, and rightly so. Why are you shooting yourself in the foot or telling others to do so? Is it really worth it for you to be "right" on a message board rather than defend the turf of quality games made with passion? What the hell do you win from company X earning a lot of money? What exactly is the benefit of the random people on message boards like yourself who all come into "helpfully" "remind" us that companies only exist for money and not a single person in that company ever grew up and went to college and studied with the intent of, I fucking don't know, making something cool? People like you disgust me.

But never mind that.

What's even more silly is that you somehow think you know a) what this company in particular will do; b) what is profitable for that company. You also assume that what the company will do is always profitable for it. Maybe you should realize that these are actually not as simple and easy decisions as you may think. For one, companies would care about actual profit before they care about raw quantity of players, because they may gain more profit with less players, depending on how they run their model. And companies have succeeded with very different payment models and approaches. Many companies run on McDonalds style models, others run on reputation, some run in niches, some just make quality games and are done with it. Companies get huge amounts of players via F2P, for one, but it often heralds a failing game. Many times these companies make huge mistakes when they think they are going for a cash grab - I am really not sure how Blizzard's approach with Diablo III is going to affect the company in the long run. Many of these super "successful" companies went under pretty quickly. It's not that simple. Only complete idiots think it's really easy to just get the max amount of players in your game and get money. When Blizzard did it, it was done by releasing a quality product (you can hate WoW all you want but it was a very good game). It was also done by attracting WarCraft fans and the WarCraft brand, which GREW as a result of what they did - who says EQ can't do the same? Maybe people should get a clue that releasing junk may mean profits in the short term, but it has consequences. Maybe they should stop looking for the easy way out when they want to achieve something insane. When you do it the "easy" way and you take no risks you're also settling for mediocrity. And, yes, some companies are perfectly satisfied with that. I do not support those companies. The person at the top of this page made very good points.

You don't know what SOE is thinking. You can't read their mind. You have no fucking clue what they want to do with EQN. Be satisfied with that and speculate with the rest of us, and leave your publisher style think to the actual publishers.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10402

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

7/13/13 5:17:53 PM#53

Unless they realize that trying to get a million or more subscribers is the least likely scenario, regardless of what they do. If they have reasonable goals of say, 250k to 500k subscribers, then they may include a good bit of the less popular content.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  ThomasN7

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/17/07
Posts: 6637

"Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong.” - Mordin Solus

7/13/13 5:19:44 PM#54
How is this a WoW clone when this game will be a sandbox ? 
  Yamota

Elite Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6497

"Only cunts name their swords" -The Hound

7/13/13 5:23:26 PM#55
Originally posted by MMOGamer71
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by MMOGamer71

WoW is a clone.

WoW plays nothing like EQ if that's what you're trying to imply.

I see little point in creating another game that plays like WoW, the market is saturated with clones, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's what happens.

Point is WoW is a clone, "successful: but still a clone.

Of what? There was no MMO, prior to WoW, which played like WoW. It had elements from EQ and some other MMOs of that time but the end results was nothing of the sort.

  Sinaku

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 446

7/13/13 5:30:40 PM#56


Originally posted by MMOGamer71

Originally posted by Waterlily

Originally posted by bayanmerkid they will build a more mature WoW
Like the thousands of other WoW clones out there .
WoW is a clone.


WoW grabbed things from EVERY MMO before its time. Upon release WoW did nothing original. It just copied things very well and made a graphically/artistically appealing game which ran rather smooth (game play wise, not so smooth on the hardware back then).

  Deolus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/30/05
Posts: 391

7/13/13 5:34:58 PM#57
Originally posted by bayanmerkid
Just to clarify this wasnt a post about how this game is going to be WoW or easymode or anything of the sort. What I was trying to get at is that people have this idea that SOE will be going after a niche of players who want EQ1 remade. When I say its going to be familiar to WoW, what is mean is that people who have played WoW in the past or for that matter any popular MMO be it GW1 2 or SWTOR, will easily be able to pick the game up and find some familiarity.

I'm  a veteran EQ player of about 7 years and played EQ2 for about 18 months till I levelled every crafting class to max. I realise that EQN is not going to be similar  to either of those games but both of those games kept me playing for over the average 3 months that I normally play mmorpgs.

I have every faith in SoE to give me a new rendition of EverQuest that I will play for at least a year or two because at present every game since EQ2/WoW has been mediocre at best *off-topic* with exception from a couple of OWPvP games I enjoyed (EvE and Perpetuum), and I am not a PvPer by nature.

  Arkain

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/30/04
Posts: 500

Hows your google-Fu?

7/13/13 6:23:10 PM#58
Originally posted by MMOGamer71
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by MMOGamer71

Point is WoW is a clone

of what exactly?

ME, D&D and EQ1.

 

Edit:

Grabbed my vodka.

And Warhammer as well.

I played both EQ1 and WoW at release, and yes then that where very much alike.

The Orcs vs. humans well that was from Warhammer.

WoW took a lot from Warhammer.

  craftseeker

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/11/09
Posts: 626

7/13/13 7:17:20 PM#59
Originally posted by bayanmerkid
Just to clarify this wasnt a post about how this game is going to be WoW or easymode or anything of the sort. What I was trying to get at is that people have this idea that SOE will be going after a niche of players who want EQ1 remade. When I say its going to be familiar to WoW, what is mean is that people who have played WoW in the past or for that matter any popular MMO be it GW1 2 or SWTOR, will easily be able to pick the game up and find some familiarity.

So why are SOE deliberately targeting EQ and EQ2 players past and present with their promotion of the game?

  • My EQ Story campaign
  • Launching the game at SOE Live to "their loyalest fans"
  • That artwork everyone hated done as a tribute to EQ
  • Calling the game EQ Next rather than "World of Norrath" or "Eve of Luclin"

They are going after those players.  Sure the overall marketing will get bigger and broader but to date it has been clearly focused at those EQ and EQ2 players.

So what is your real agenda?  Is this a thinly disguised OW FFA PvP argument?

  Sengi

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 305

7/13/13 7:33:06 PM#60
Originally posted by Gardavsshade
Originally posted by bayanmerkid  ... When a very large company designs an MMO they will obviously go after their largest possible player base, if you played EQ 1, 2, or SWG you probably arent their target market, heck if you post on this forum you probably arent their target market. If you play WOW, COD, Guild Wars 1 or 2, wear a hat backwards while playing texas holdem watching UFC in your friends basement your probably their target market. ...

I believe that you Bayanmerkid are absolutely CORRECT with this statement. ...

Yes he is! 
 
We don't know what Everquest Next is going to be, but we can be certain about one thing it is not - hardcore. And that is a good thing. Hardcore is anyway just a better sounding word for niche. I want EQN to be mainstream otherwise it wont be successful.  
I also like casual games up to a point. I don't like to be ganked ever 2 minutes or chop down trees for two entire days. Vanilla WoW for example had a degree of difficulty that was ok for me. I'm not talking about Mists of Pandaria even Mr Wears-his-hat-backwards likes some challenge. 
 


But there is another point where the OP may not be right, I believe:

Originally posted by bayanmerkid

... they will build a more mature WoW with EQ lore and new enough game mechanics that although they will be familiar they wont be stale. ...

I think WoW and the Themepark MMORPG in general is much like Guitar Hero, it was a money making machine for many years, but all things must come to an end. I guess more or less everyone who was ever even remotely interested in WoW has now played enough of it for the rest of his life and is ready to move on. I believe that's the reason why WoW is now being almost exclusively targeted towards kids. This is the last demographic that haven't played the game jet. WoW-Clones never where where successful and now they are even less. 
 
I believe SOE when they are saying EQN will be a sandbox. It is a misconception that every sandbox needs to be super hardcore, with FFA PVP and time consuming crafting. It will be a casual sandbox. I believe that casuals actually like sandboxes because more freedom is always better. They just have not been presented to them in suiting way, and I believe SOE is go for exactly that.   
 
And by the way: The OP did not write anything about one game being a clone of another game, and I can't hear it anymore. 
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