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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » POLL: should all races be allowed to play every classes?

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140 posts found
  Greez

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/03/13
Posts: 104

7/13/13 3:05:00 PM#21

It should make sense in the lore, whatever it is.

I generally prefer restrictions rather than not, because it makes the races a bit more interesting to me. But, I do think that the game itself can be allowed to have some exceptions among NPC's, just not allow players because of the risk of it being too commonplace.

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3389

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

7/13/13 3:06:16 PM#22


Originally posted by Dihoru
No humanity within the races means you cannot relate to them easily which in turn affects immersion... no one is absolutely good and no one's absolutely evil, we're all the choices we choose to make and that would make an MMO worth playing. Tell me it wouldn't be interesting to play an Outcast Troll who chose to align with a good god (damn that sounds weird) and thus was exiled by his own race and the other good aligned races don't readily trust you but they accept you somewhat. The potential for extraordinary stories is there with more grey areas and less black vs white as long as the paths aren't easy... you could even open up unique questlines to that mix of character/profession.

To end I will state this much: A world where absolute good battles absolute evil, where the lines are clearly drawn, where enemies remain enemies and where nothing ever changes is a dead world. We need a world that has no absolute good or absolute evil, not one line but multiple, no fixed enemies and a fluid dynamic ( why couldn't a evil race work with a good race if there is a greater threat to both?).



"Humanity in races." Interesting concept. Why should there be this? They are different from humans. They are NOT humans. They just do not have different colored skins, though some games depict them this way (looking at you SW:TOR!). Many fantasy worlds have the different races created by different deities. The thing about fantasy worlds is that it is not just about humanity. It is about very real differences within the game context.

Many, many fantasy worlds are all about good vs evil. The Lord of the Rings is one good example with Star Wars being another. Good vs Evil can, and does work. The worlds are far from dead.

Personally, I like my "gray area" games in my single player game experience where my decisions actually matter in the game world.

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  wblastyn

Novice Member

Joined: 6/27/13
Posts: 13

7/13/13 3:13:33 PM#23

I voted no.

I think there should be class restrictions based on race, unless maybe there's a quest-line, that say allows a Gnome to gain favour with Tunare/Karana and become a druid, for instance. Otherwise I feel it cheapens the experience if every race can become every class right away (dark elf paladins anyone?).

  Waterlily

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/26/08
Posts: 2921

7/13/13 3:15:29 PM#24

You can find many sections in Everquest about good versus evil in the lore too.

For example:

 

"Who defines the lines of being right or wrong? When a good man is under pressure he sometimes makes bad choices. Should this man not be forgiven or should he be judged to be wrong for the rest of his life? It's just not right.

Grenic lost sight of our objective for a second and killed innocent people rather than making them prisoners. Mithaniel Marr banished him from the Halls of Honor."

 

It's part of the access quest to the Halls of Honor. Honor and righteousness are a defining trait of paladins in EQ, their whole class is about honor.

If you let a Dark Elf and follower of Innoruuk become a Paladin for example, the whole lore in EQ would stop making sense.

It's not just race, more importantly, it's deity. EQ is actually a highly religious game.

  Yamota

Elite Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6643

Gaming should be about fun, not gender equality.

7/13/13 3:17:27 PM#25
No, unless a gnome warrior get heavy penalties to damage compared to a troll warrior but the opposite for dexterity.
  User Deleted
7/13/13 3:26:40 PM#26
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by Dihoru
No humanity within the races means you cannot relate to them easily which in turn affects immersion... no one is absolutely good and no one's absolutely evil, we're all the choices we choose to make and that would make an MMO worth playing. Tell me it wouldn't be interesting to play an Outcast Troll who chose to align with a good god (damn that sounds weird) and thus was exiled by his own race and the other good aligned races don't readily trust you but they accept you somewhat. The potential for extraordinary stories is there with more grey areas and less black vs white as long as the paths aren't easy... you could even open up unique questlines to that mix of character/profession.

 

To end I will state this much: A world where absolute good battles absolute evil, where the lines are clearly drawn, where enemies remain enemies and where nothing ever changes is a dead world. We need a world that has no absolute good or absolute evil, not one line but multiple, no fixed enemies and a fluid dynamic ( why couldn't a evil race work with a good race if there is a greater threat to both?).



"Humanity in races." Interesting concept. Why should there be this? They are different from humans. They are NOT humans. They just do not have different colored skins, though some games depict them this way (looking at you SW:TOR!). Many fantasy worlds have the different races created by different deities. The thing about fantasy worlds is that it is not just about humanity. It is about very real differences within the game context.

 

Many, many fantasy worlds are all about good vs evil. The Lord of the Rings is one good example with Star Wars being another. Good vs Evil can, and does work. The worlds are far from dead.

Personally, I like my "gray area" games in my single player game experience where my decisions actually matter in the game world.

Yes, to be more readily empathized with they should have some human traits (jealousy, greed, avarice, kindness, caring, etc), all fantasy fiction does this unless it is the sub standard type which wants to dehumanize its villains.

In the Lord of the Rings you have good (the races of Middle Earth) vs evil (Sauron) but were all the races aligned against Sauron that good? The elves by what I remember were reluctant to help and seemed to be more self interested, the dwarfs pretty much doomed their own race by continually unleashing ancient evils such as the Balrog and were generally very greedy, the halflings were jolly and good natured but they were very reluctant to mobilize vs Sauron and don't even get me started on humans whom kept falling to their need for power and/or eternal life and on the opposite end we have characters like Smeagol who are tragic, not evil not good but tragic.

 

If this game turns out to be a sandbox then grey areas will allow more tools for people to interact.

 

 

@Waterlily: I was not referring to classes being changed but individuals from non-traditional races ( evil ones ) proving that they are actually worthy of being that class (Troll Paladin).

  arieste

Novice Member

Joined: 10/11/04
Posts: 3310

7/13/13 3:27:13 PM#27
Originally posted by Waterlily

It makes sense in EQ. 

It makes sense in EQ, it doesn't make sense in EQ2 and we've no idea if it makes sense in EQN.

 

"in general" it doesn't really make sense for ANY fantasy world, especially one that'll hopefully be designed as a sandbox where players can decide the fate of their characters.

 

and when i say "makes sense", i just mean "it matches lore", because honeslty, it never actually "made sense".    it always stops in my tracks the utter stupidity of my mighty warrior who can slay dragons with dual swords suddenly being completely unable to swing a hammer.    because "according to lore" apparently warriors don't use hammers.. or something like that.    some things are just stupid and need to be done away with. 

 

Does it make sense that the majority of trolls are brought up to be evil marauders?  Absolutely.    And the game should reflect that.  But to say that no troll ever did anything else? or that no halfling ever turned evil?  it'd be a really boring and rigid world.

 

Originally posted by Waterlily

It's not just race, more importantly, it's deity. EQ is actually a highly religious game.

 

Well, seems like an easy solution - require changing deity if you want to change classes.  if paladins are empowered by Marr, it makes perfect sense that a Dark Elf would first need to accept Marr as their deity.  Or whatever. 

"I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

- Raph Koster

Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2
Currently Playing: EQ2, Firefall

  reicht

Novice Member

Joined: 8/17/12
Posts: 42

7/13/13 3:28:25 PM#28

Anyone who votes no is a racist, a player character is an individual regardless of their racial background.  We are all humans but that didn't deny any of us the choice of pursuits in life, I was born into a Christian family but that has no bearing on my future.

 

Racists all of ya!! : P   Even a troll can detest his evil upbringing, Everquest was ALWAYS about freedom and open choice with factions and relations to me, I would detest the idea that my career and pursuit is based on my race... if I can swing a sword I can do it for good, evil, or neutral (Pally, SK, Warrior) based on my beliefs, not my parents.

  Gallus85

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 1115

7/13/13 3:31:36 PM#29
Originally posted by Dihoru
I selected yes but with the caveat that the class needs to make sense for that race (halfling or gnome type races couldn't be warriors for example as I rather doubt a midget race individual could lift a maul or bastard sword).

The original EQ lets you make gnome warriors and such.

I think restrictions are bad.  Let players choose the race/class combo they want and let them roleplay that race/class combo in their own creative way.

I vote yes.

Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  waynejr2

Elite Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3794

RIP City of Heroes!

7/13/13 3:36:44 PM#30

Opening everything up to everyone because the customer should get whatever he wants is part of what is wrong with games these days. It's the spoiled little brats who kick and scream until they get their way.  It's entitlement.

No, I want the devs to show them who the boss is and not cave into their demands.  Because if the devs cave in on one thing, they will cave in over and over again.  It teaches the children they can be rewarded with their tactics.

  SteadyC76

Novice Member

Joined: 11/10/08
Posts: 2

7/13/13 3:37:55 PM#31
They would have weapons armor made for there size. 
  arieste

Novice Member

Joined: 10/11/04
Posts: 3310

7/13/13 3:40:44 PM#32
Originally posted by waynejr2

No, I want the devs to show them who the boss is and not cave into their demands.  Because if the devs cave in on one thing, they will cave in over and over again.  It teaches the children they can be rewarded with their tactics.

That's right!  Don't let the screaming children get what they want!  Stick with the plan of having a sandbox world where any combination is possible!  RAWR!

"I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

- Raph Koster

Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2
Currently Playing: EQ2, Firefall

  Smeekle

Novice Member

Joined: 7/09/13
Posts: 14

7/13/13 3:40:53 PM#33
Originally posted by arieste
Originally posted by Waterlily

It makes sense in EQ. 

It makes sense in EQ, it doesn't make sense in EQ2 and we've no idea if it makes sense in EQN.

 

"in general" it doesn't really make sense for ANY fantasy world, especially one that'll hopefully be designed as a sandbox where players can decide the fate of their characters.

 

and when i say "makes sense", i just mean "it matches lore", because honeslty, it never actually "made sense".    it always stops in my tracks the utter stupidity of my mighty warrior who can slay dragons with dual swords suddenly being completely unable to swing a hammer.    because "according to lore" apparently warriors don't use hammers.. or something like that.    some things are just stupid and need to be done away with. 

 

Does it make sense that the majority of trolls are brought up to be evil marauders?  Absolutely.    And the game should reflect that.  But to say that no troll ever did anything else? or that no halfling ever turned evil?  it'd be a really boring and rigid world.

 

Originally posted by Waterlily

It's not just race, more importantly, it's deity. EQ is actually a highly religious game.

 

Well, seems like an easy solution - require changing deity if you want to change classes.  if paladins are empowered by Marr, it makes perfect sense that a Dark Elf would first need to accept Marr as their deity.  Or whatever. 

I could live with a Good, Evil, and NEUTRAL alignment system.  Where each alignment had certain deities within it..?  But some races should NEVER be allowed to reach Good, or Evil, Neutral is the middle ground i'd say.  And there needs to be some type of benefit to being straight good/evil vs. becoming or being neutral/agnostic and vise versa.   So let's say it goes like this:  High Elves can be Good Lawful, Good Neutral, Good Chaotic, and Neutral Good - but they cannot wade into any Evil alignments ever.  This would allow some flexibility for those that like choice and stay within the realm of the game lore; it would also work cool with factions.  For this to work, there needs to be major factions and benefits/drawbacks tied to the ALIGNMENT of characters.  Alignment could be changed through questing and slaying enough opposite aligned creatures perhaps.  Thoughts?

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 6020

7/13/13 3:46:11 PM#34
I voted yes because if it is supposed to be "sandbox-style" then I hope it will be more open to letting players decide their fate and role.  I hope this game is less linear, restricted, and directed than its two predecessors.

Curse you AquaScum!

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3389

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

7/13/13 3:48:58 PM#35


Originally posted by Dihoru
Yes, to be more readily empathized with they should have some human traits (jealousy, greed, avarice, kindness, caring, etc), all fantasy fiction does this unless it is the sub standard type which wants to dehumanize its villains.

For you perhaps.

I know of lots good fantasy worlds where villains have no redeeming humanistic qualities whatsoever that are not sub-standard. I also know of many that have your coveted gray areas. I enjoy both. I guess I like "sub standard" fantasy :)

Sometimes, especially in an entertainment area, it is nice to not have to worry about gray areas. It is relaxing to have clear cut lines drawn and adhered to. Sometimes, people actually yearn for clear cut black and white.

I understand you like gray areas. I do too, in some games. Do you understand not everyone does? EQ was not about gray areas. It was about clear cut definitions, Humans being the exception. Will EQN be this? Who knows...

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  Antiquated

Novice Member

Joined: 3/08/13
Posts: 479

7/13/13 3:50:15 PM#36
Originally posted by Gholos

I vote: NO

You know that by indicating your own vote, you only provide incentive to the contrarians, right?

Never mind, most all poll-creators editorialize their biases somewhere in the text.

  arieste

Novice Member

Joined: 10/11/04
Posts: 3310

7/13/13 3:52:36 PM#37
Originally posted by Smeekle
  High Elves can be Good Lawful, Good Neutral, Good Chaotic, and Neutral Good - but they cannot wade into any Evil alignments ever.  

I just can't really get behind a world in which every member of a certain race is guarateed to be morally good regardless of their actions.  Or vice versa.     What is the point of doing anything at all - of being a hero, of helping people, of saving the world - if you still remain a morally good person even if you don't do any of that?    It makes no sense to me and it's not the sort of world I would prefer to be part of. 

 

Oh hey, i was born an elf - WIN!  I am now guaranteed to have lived a good and righteous life.  No need to do anything.  Might as well kill myself now.

"I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

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  Antiquated

Novice Member

Joined: 3/08/13
Posts: 479

7/13/13 3:53:20 PM#38
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

For you perhaps.

 

I know of lots good fantasy worlds where villains have no redeeming humanistic qualities whatsoever that are not sub-standard. I also know of many that have your coveted gray areas. I enjoy both. I guess I like "sub standard" fantasy :)

Cruella de Vil?

I can't think of any non-Disney villains who are quite so cardboard, right offhand. Elucidate?

  Antiquated

Novice Member

Joined: 3/08/13
Posts: 479

7/13/13 3:59:53 PM#39
Originally posted by arieste

Oh hey, i was born an elf - WIN!  I am now guaranteed to have lived a good and righteous life.  No need to do anything.  Might as well kill myself now.

You can blame it all on Gary Gygax and the average teenager's simple grasp of Lawful Stupid way back in 1st Ed. paladins.

  PorkNails

Novice Member

Joined: 3/19/12
Posts: 63

7/13/13 4:00:42 PM#40

I voted yes because that brings a big limitation for the game and players, what if i want to be a tank with a small race?

 

Though i also believe would be good and lore wise if each race has bonuses that would benefit some classes that fit better with the given race.

That way you have freedom of choice to be whatever you want, but you know that each race is better for some classes then others.

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