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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Let's stop using the term "F2P"

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124 posts found
  nariusseldon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

7/12/13 12:23:23 PM#101
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by boxsnd
F2P haters are kind of funny. They are people who refuse when offered free things and insist on paying for them. 

Or  they have some brain cells left and realise very few things in life are free.

Very few .. but F2P games are one of those.

Let me see ... i played STO, Marvel Heroes, and DCUO. I have not paid a cent. Tell me how it is not free for me? (And let's not hair splitting about whether i have to pay for electricity. I am talking about paying the owner of those games).

 

  whisperwynd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/22/06
Posts: 1439

Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the priviledge to do so as well.

7/12/13 12:27:17 PM#102
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by boxsnd
F2P haters are kind of funny. They are people who refuse when offered free things and insist on paying for them. 

Or  they have some brain cells left and realise very few things in life are free.

Very few .. but F2P games are one of those.

Let me see ... i played STO, Marvel Heroes, and DCUO. I have not paid a cent. Tell me how it is not free for me? (And let's not hair splitting about whether i have to pay for electricity. I am talking about paying the owner of those games).

 

'Paying for electricity' That's the weakest attempt I've seen. It's already paid for, you'd still use the computer or the tv otherwise. Unless the argument then goes, 'Well, not if you went outside'.   

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1703

7/12/13 12:58:16 PM#103
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by boxsnd
F2P haters are kind of funny. They are people who refuse when offered free things and insist on paying for them. 

Or  they have some brain cells left and realise very few things in life are free.

Very few .. but F2P games are one of those.

Let me see ... i played STO, Marvel Heroes, and DCUO. I have not paid a cent. Tell me how it is not free for me? (And let's not hair splitting about whether i have to pay for electricity. I am talking about paying the owner of those games).

 

"Free for me"...thats the point right there. You may like leveling your toon and hanging around, but you cannot partake in most endgame content unless you pay, hence, for "me", they are not F2P.

I'm not too familier with STO, but DCUO for a fact, you cannot do the latest raid tiers without paying. Seeing as endgame is the main reason to play for me and many themepark players, they are free trials, not F2P games.

 

  theAsna

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/09
Posts: 303

7/12/13 12:59:32 PM#104

 

Electricity is a bad example. In general people pay a fixed minimum rate to their power company. On top of that comes the price per Kilowatt Hours you spent (i.e. "base subscription fee" + "a fee for every hour of game time spent").

  nariusseldon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

7/12/13 1:00:19 PM#105
Originally posted by whisperwynd
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by boxsnd
F2P haters are kind of funny. They are people who refuse when offered free things and insist on paying for them. 

Or  they have some brain cells left and realise very few things in life are free.

Very few .. but F2P games are one of those.

Let me see ... i played STO, Marvel Heroes, and DCUO. I have not paid a cent. Tell me how it is not free for me? (And let's not hair splitting about whether i have to pay for electricity. I am talking about paying the owner of those games).

 

'Paying for electricity' That's the weakest attempt I've seen. It's already paid for, you'd still use the computer or the tv otherwise. Unless the argument then goes, 'Well, not if you went outside'.   

You didn't see the "let's not" part? I am trying to pre-empt others to using electricity as a trivial argument, which happened in another thread.

  whisperwynd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/22/06
Posts: 1439

Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the priviledge to do so as well.

7/12/13 1:01:48 PM#106
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by whisperwynd
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by boxsnd
F2P haters are kind of funny. They are people who refuse when offered free things and insist on paying for them. 

Or  they have some brain cells left and realise very few things in life are free.

Very few .. but F2P games are one of those.

Let me see ... i played STO, Marvel Heroes, and DCUO. I have not paid a cent. Tell me how it is not free for me? (And let's not hair splitting about whether i have to pay for electricity. I am talking about paying the owner of those games).

 

'Paying for electricity' That's the weakest attempt I've seen. It's already paid for, you'd still use the computer or the tv otherwise. Unless the argument then goes, 'Well, not if you went outside'.   

You didn't see the "let's not" part? I am trying to pre-empt others to using electricity as a trivial argument, which happened in another thread.

Sorry if it didn't come out right but I was agreeing with you. 

  Loktofeit

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12401

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

7/12/13 1:04:13 PM#107
The confusion over this term seems to come up a lot on these forums, moreso than any other forum I visit. I'm wondering whether the problem is the forum culture here or just the type of people it's been attracting. I'm also curious as to the age of posters like the OP who are having trouble with this term to see if it's a generation thing.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Aysono

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/10
Posts: 164

7/12/13 1:16:05 PM#108
Originally posted by Loktofeit
The confusion over this term seems to come up a lot on these forums, moreso than any other forum I visit. I'm wondering whether the problem is the forum culture here or just the type of people it's been attracting. I'm also curious as to the age of posters like the OP who are having trouble with this term to see if it's a generation thing.

Different people have different reactions to phrases or words normally not found in the dictionaries.

 

Some may think "free-to-play" really no money is required to purchase the game or items inside the game but if they read the EULA they will find that's only in their dreams. Likewise, some may come to some MMORPG expecting to see hundreds of thousands of players online at the same thing but only to find out "massive" sometimes only means a hundred.

  Loktofeit

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12401

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

7/12/13 1:28:48 PM#109
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by Loktofeit
The confusion over this term seems to come up a lot on these forums, moreso than any other forum I visit. I'm wondering whether the problem is the forum culture here or just the type of people it's been attracting. I'm also curious as to the age of posters like the OP who are having trouble with this term to see if it's a generation thing.

Different people have different reactions to phrases or words normally not found in the dictionaries.

That's neat and all, but the level of bewliderment on these forums far surpasses that which I have seen in any other forum, chat or expo.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  nariusseldon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

7/12/13 2:04:46 PM#110
Originally posted by whisperwynd
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by whisperwynd
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by boxsnd
F2P haters are kind of funny. They are people who refuse when offered free things and insist on paying for them. 

Or  they have some brain cells left and realise very few things in life are free.

Very few .. but F2P games are one of those.

Let me see ... i played STO, Marvel Heroes, and DCUO. I have not paid a cent. Tell me how it is not free for me? (And let's not hair splitting about whether i have to pay for electricity. I am talking about paying the owner of those games).

 

'Paying for electricity' That's the weakest attempt I've seen. It's already paid for, you'd still use the computer or the tv otherwise. Unless the argument then goes, 'Well, not if you went outside'.   

You didn't see the "let's not" part? I am trying to pre-empt others to using electricity as a trivial argument, which happened in another thread.

Sorry if it didn't come out right but I was agreeing with you. 

Oh . haha .. no problem. Thanks for the clarification.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10942

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

7/12/13 2:55:00 PM#111


Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Aysono

Originally posted by Loktofeit The confusion over this term seems to come up a lot on these forums, moreso than any other forum I visit. I'm wondering whether the problem is the forum culture here or just the type of people it's been attracting. I'm also curious as to the age of posters like the OP who are having trouble with this term to see if it's a generation thing.
Different people have different reactions to phrases or words normally not found in the dictionaries.
That's neat and all, but the level of bewliderment on these forums far surpasses that which I have seen in any other forum, chat or expo.



It's contrived, just like these threads. The idea is that by appearing ignorant of the meaning of the phrase, issues with the system can be more readily brought to light, swaying people to agree with the point of view. Something like that. I don't know if there is an official term for that type of argument or not*, but there should be since it appears on these forums so much.

* It's not 'argument from ignorance', nor is it a method that Socrates used in pretending to be ignorant to get an answer because I looked them up.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 5071

7/12/13 3:24:09 PM#112

How about NCC?

(No Cover Charge)

Sure you can listen to the music, but the drinks aint cheap.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  vandal5627

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/04/12
Posts: 331

7/12/13 3:25:42 PM#113
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

How about NCC?

(No Cover Charge)

Sure you can listen to the music, but the drinks aint cheap.

Probably the best way to look at it.

  niceguy3978

Elite Member

Joined: 6/14/06
Posts: 2011

7/12/13 3:25:44 PM#114
Originally posted by whisperwynd
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by boxsnd
F2P haters are kind of funny. They are people who refuse when offered free things and insist on paying for them. 

Or  they have some brain cells left and realise very few things in life are free.

Very few .. but F2P games are one of those.

Let me see ... i played STO, Marvel Heroes, and DCUO. I have not paid a cent. Tell me how it is not free for me? (And let's not hair splitting about whether i have to pay for electricity. I am talking about paying the owner of those games).

 

'Paying for electricity' That's the weakest attempt I've seen. It's already paid for, you'd still use the computer or the tv otherwise. Unless the argument then goes, 'Well, not if you went outside'.   

There was a thread the other day talking about how f2p games aren't free because they cost bandwidth to download, and you have to pay your internet provider for service.  As though you don't have to pay those people the same prices if you were playing a p2p game.

  whisperwynd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/22/06
Posts: 1439

Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the priviledge to do so as well.

7/12/13 3:35:50 PM#115
Originally posted by niceguy3978

There was a thread the other day talking about how f2p games aren't free because they cost bandwidth to download, and you have to pay your internet provider for service.  As though you don't have to pay those people the same prices if you were playing a p2p game.

I get that, just not the electricity reason. Not everyone has unlimited bandwidth, it's true.

However, I have previously seen the "use of the electricity" logic to say it's not free and find this to be a weak premise for the argument.

  Attend4455

Novice Member

Joined: 2/03/13
Posts: 166

7/12/13 3:56:49 PM#116

 

@lizardbones: good point there, it does have echoes of the Socratic dialogue, I may have to dig them all out and revisit them, also, Schopenhauer "The Art of Controversy" (also published as "Why I am Always right" IIRC)

I sometimes make spelling and grammar errors but I don't pretend it's because I'm using a phone

  nerovipus32

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2716

7/12/13 4:00:53 PM#117
Originally posted by Arclan

One only need look at threads here to see "F2P" is hated by many and loved (dearly) by a few. But the term "F2P," is a marketing term coined by the very industry it serves. Saying "Free to Play" is about as useful as a grocery store claiming "Free to Shop."

I propose anyone who dislikes F2P to stop using that term since it only furthers their cause. Use "Monetization Model," instead or simply MM.

But they are free to play.

  nerovipus32

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2716

7/12/13 4:02:24 PM#118
Originally posted by Shadowguy64
It should be F2T- Free to Try

A try means for a short amount of time. You can play these games for as long as you want. They are free to play.

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

7/12/13 4:03:41 PM#119
Originally posted by DamonVile

It's the same reason people call some games mmoarpgs or mmotps mmofps ect ect. They're all just mmos so why not call them all mmos ? It's our nature to want to use our language to help give more detail to a name that actually describes what it is.

If I tell someone it's a freemium game and you say it's f2p who told the third party more about what to expect. If I say a game is a mmofps and you call it a mmo ...same thing. Nether is wrong or lied to anyone but one name is far more specific about the nature of the game.

In some contexts MMO is fine to say, when all you care about is games which are MMOs.  Most of the time players care about more than that, so we say MMORPG or MMOFPS to specifically refer to a type of game, because players usually care about that level of information when discussing genres.

Similarly, players basically universally understand what F2P means, especially when paired up with a genre.  A F2P MOBA immediately calls to mind certain traits which aren't typical of a F2P MMORPG.  But unlike MMO vs. MMORPG, no new information is really gained by using the term freemium, because F2P MMORPG already implied that info.

If there were hundreds of totally free games which were being labeled F2P, then you might have a point.  But that doesn't happen, so the need for a separate term is nonexistent.

  nariusseldon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

7/12/13 5:19:51 PM#120
Originally posted by niceguy3978
 

There was a thread the other day talking about how f2p games aren't free because they cost bandwidth to download, and you have to pay your internet provider for service.  As though you don't have to pay those people the same prices if you were playing a p2p game.

Plus, in the US, broadband is mostly unlimited. I pay the same amount if i only play MMOs, or if i download 200 movies.

 

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