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Star Wars Galaxies

Star Wars Galaxies 

General Discussion  » EQN: the New SWG?

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41 posts found
  Ginaz

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/01/07
Posts: 1721

7/08/13 10:01:27 PM#21
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by noncley
But can Smedley, the Father of the NGE, be trusted?

Smed had nothing to do with the nge it was LA and julio torres.

Prove it.  Provide a link or its BS.

Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

  Kazara

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/20/06
Posts: 1069

"Denial does not change reality."

7/09/13 7:31:31 AM#22
Originally posted by Ginaz
Originally posted by craftseeker
Originally posted by Ginaz
Originally posted by Onomas
Originally posted by noncley
But can Smedley, the Father of the NGE, be trusted?

Well considering Smed had nothing to do with the NGE, which was designed and forced upon SOE by Lucas Arts, I don't see an issue. Smed actually had different plans for SWG, but LA wanted to follow WOW's success due to the loss of subscribers.

 

You're wrong about that but hey lets not let facts and truth get in the way of a debunked theory.

FYI, you might want to read an interview with the late Jeff Freeman, a man who was deeply involved with swg and the nge, to understand that the change was soe's baby all the way.

That statement might be more compelling if you provided a link to that interview, as it is it seems to verge on the BS.

Google is your friend.  I'm too lazy to link it.  Its been posted here before.  Funny how you didn't ask the people blaming LA and absolving soe to provide or link.

I found a very useful article which provides many links regarding $OE/Jeff Freeman's involvement with the NGE. $OE designed the NGE abomination and obviously sold the garbage to LA.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/op-ed/801-SWG-NGE-Crying-Freeman

The article seems to summarize and organize the many threads/posts from the SWG sub-forum here on mmorpg.com.

Some additional Q&A -

http://www.mmofringe.com/forum/15-Star-Wars-Galaxies/157-jeff-freeman-revelation-archive

  NightBandit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 780

Make friends not money, then wealth will follow.

7/09/13 7:48:03 AM#23
Originally posted by noncley
But can Smedley, the Father of the NGE, be trusted?

Not sure what you are trying to imply but to keep bringing up the NGE is a waste of time and it dead JIM!!! The fact you bringing it up in EQ is also pointless as it had nothing to do with SWG or ever will so might be time you for to move on pal and stop looking back and try to be more positive and look forward.

What you need to do is look at this from a business prospective and Mr Smedley has been at the helm of this company for as long as I've been playing MMO's so he must be doing something right or they would of removed him years ago. I feel the fact that he's got you writing about his game proves he's doing it right because you talking about his game which is not even out yet.

So you are advertising his game by bringing up his past cool and he's not even had to pay for it. If I was sat where he is I'd be very happy indeed.

The Bandit

  Onomas

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/11
Posts: 1160

Sandbox is your only hope for a decent mmo ;)

7/09/13 10:32:33 AM#24
 
Originally posted by Kazara
Originally posted by Ginaz
Originally posted by craftseeker
Originally posted by Ginaz
Originally posted by Onomas
Originally posted by noncley
But can Smedley, the Father of the NGE, be trusted?

Well considering Smed had nothing to do with the NGE, which was designed and forced upon SOE by Lucas Arts, I don't see an issue. Smed actually had different plans for SWG, but LA wanted to follow WOW's success due to the loss of subscribers.

 

You're wrong about that but hey lets not let facts and truth get in the way of a debunked theory.

FYI, you might want to read an interview with the late Jeff Freeman, a man who was deeply involved with swg and the nge, to understand that the change was soe's baby all the way.

That statement might be more compelling if you provided a link to that interview, as it is it seems to verge on the BS.

Google is your friend.  I'm too lazy to link it.  Its been posted here before.  Funny how you didn't ask the people blaming LA and absolving soe to provide or link.

I found a very useful article which provides many links regarding $OE/Jeff Freeman's involvement with the NGE. $OE designed the NGE abomination and obviously sold the garbage to LA.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/op-ed/801-SWG-NGE-Crying-Freeman

The article seems to summarize and organize the many threads/posts from the SWG sub-forum here on mmorpg.com.

Some additional Q&A -

http://www.mmofringe.com/forum/15-Star-Wars-Galaxies/157-jeff-freeman-revelation-archive

That's just heresay from a disgruntled employee who spoke out against the NGE many times. He even left the SWG team shortly after the NGE was released.

"Despite the fact that he continued to suffer online abuse at the hands of Star Wars Galaxies players unhappy with the NGE changes even after leaving Sony Online Entertainment in late 2006
Read more at http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/86552-Jeff-Freeman-Former-SWG-Lead-Gameplay-Designer-Dies#oJPMq3W5ULoRGPys.99"

He also took his own life due to personal issues 2 years later.

 

I posted several interviews and letters from the creator of the NGE above. Tores is the man you want to point fingers at. Smed took full blame. But honestly, NGE made the game better but destroyed several aspects along the way. But in the end what SOE did with the NGE is a plus, they added so many features and tried new things, not like the stagnated games of today. Do believe the last thing they worked on was atmospheric flight which was pretty cool and original.

Problem was SWG was too complex for your average gamer, and too many gamers want their mmorpg's to play like console rpg's. They want to reach max level in 3 days not spend 3 days learning the game. This is what our gamers community has become, and it has suffered for it as well.

  Burntvet

Elite Member

Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 2778

7/09/13 11:53:50 AM#25
Yeah... it was so much better than original SWG that 90% of the players quit. 50k or more in a week. Yeah, it was "too elite" for SWG players of the time. That must be it. OR it became such broken bag of bad code that even the developers were ashamed of it. Post NGE the game plain didn't work well, and was that way even after years of additional development. Who "ordered" the NGE is irrelevant. That it was a broken, buggy, non-functional mess is all on SOE and the people that programmed it (or did LA people tell them to program it like shit as well? :P).
  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10924

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

7/09/13 11:58:35 AM#26


Originally posted by nerovipus32

Originally posted by noncley But can Smedley, the Father of the NGE, be trusted?
Smed had nothing to do with the nge it was LA and julio torres.



Smedley obviously had something to do with it. He was the talking head after all. If nothing else, he foisted it off on the players, and then defended and/or outright lied about it. That doesn't make him a trusted source of information.

It would be interesting if EQN provided the experience that players can no longer get because SWG is gone.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4941

7/09/13 12:34:44 PM#27
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by nerovipus32

Originally posted by noncley But can Smedley, the Father of the NGE, be trusted?
Smed had nothing to do with the nge it was LA and julio torres.


Smedley obviously had something to do with it. He was the talking head after all. If nothing else, he foisted it off on the players, and then defended and/or outright lied about it. That doesn't make him a trusted source of information.

It would be interesting if EQN provided the experience that players can no longer get because SWG is gone.

 

That would be awesome. It's not like SoE couldn't clone their own game under one of their own IPs. But my big concern would be this. Imagine SWG as F2P with a Cash Shop. If there is any way to buy game currently or buy an item that is tradeable, It's going to be a tough balance.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10924

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

7/09/13 12:37:26 PM#28


Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by nerovipus32

Originally posted by noncley But can Smedley, the Father of the NGE, be trusted?
Smed had nothing to do with the nge it was LA and julio torres.
Smedley obviously had something to do with it. He was the talking head after all. If nothing else, he foisted it off on the players, and then defended and/or outright lied about it. That doesn't make him a trusted source of information. It would be interesting if EQN provided the experience that players can no longer get because SWG is gone.  
That would be awesome. It's not like SoE couldn't clone their own game under one their own IPs. But my big concern would be. Imagine SWG as F2P with a Sash Shop. As it was in SWG, one's power was relative to one's wealth and if there is any way to buy game currently or buy an item that is tradeable, It's going to be a tough balance.



I know Sashes are out of style right now, but they're not really that bad.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4941

7/09/13 12:39:07 PM#29
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by nerovipus32

Originally posted by noncley But can Smedley, the Father of the NGE, be trusted?
Smed had nothing to do with the nge it was LA and julio torres.
Smedley obviously had something to do with it. He was the talking head after all. If nothing else, he foisted it off on the players, and then defended and/or outright lied about it. That doesn't make him a trusted source of information. It would be interesting if EQN provided the experience that players can no longer get because SWG is gone.  
That would be awesome. It's not like SoE couldn't clone their own game under one their own IPs. But my big concern would be. Imagine SWG as F2P with a Sash Shop. As it was in SWG, one's power was relative to one's wealth and if there is any way to buy game currently or buy an item that is tradeable, It's going to be a tough balance.


I know Sashes are out of style right now, but they're not really that bad.

 

LOL, Dammit, I was trying to fix that but you caught it 1st

 

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

7/09/13 12:44:36 PM#30
Wait weren't we just told by someone else that EQN was Vanguard 2?Or was it the spiritual UO2???Maybe it was Jesus 2 I can't remember.
  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10924

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

7/09/13 12:48:37 PM#31


Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by nerovipus32

Originally posted by noncley But can Smedley, the Father of the NGE, be trusted?
Smed had nothing to do with the nge it was LA and julio torres.
Smedley obviously had something to do with it. He was the talking head after all. If nothing else, he foisted it off on the players, and then defended and/or outright lied about it. That doesn't make him a trusted source of information. It would be interesting if EQN provided the experience that players can no longer get because SWG is gone.  
That would be awesome. It's not like SoE couldn't clone their own game under one their own IPs. But my big concern would be. Imagine SWG as F2P with a Sash Shop. As it was in SWG, one's power was relative to one's wealth and if there is any way to buy game currently or buy an item that is tradeable, It's going to be a tough balance.
I know Sashes are out of style right now, but they're not really that bad.  
LOL, Dammit, I was trying to fix that but you caught it 1st

 




:-)

Yeah, I'm not a fan of being able to buy your way into higher levels in a game, but at the same time I think people who are willing to pay money deserve some advantages. It's not just a tough balance in a game, it can be a tough thing to balance in peoples' heads too.

One thing I think is pretty safe for stuff like that is virtual property. If you pay money, you get to build a house, or at least rent the space where you can build a house. That is one of the things that ArcheAge is doing.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Kazara

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/20/06
Posts: 1069

"Denial does not change reality."

7/09/13 11:12:04 PM#32
Originally posted by Onomas
 
Originally posted by Kazara
Originally posted by Ginaz
Originally posted by craftseeker
Originally posted by Ginaz
Originally posted by Onomas
Originally posted by noncley
But can Smedley, the Father of the NGE, be trusted?

Well considering Smed had nothing to do with the NGE, which was designed and forced upon SOE by Lucas Arts, I don't see an issue. Smed actually had different plans for SWG, but LA wanted to follow WOW's success due to the loss of subscribers.

 

You're wrong about that but hey lets not let facts and truth get in the way of a debunked theory.

FYI, you might want to read an interview with the late Jeff Freeman, a man who was deeply involved with swg and the nge, to understand that the change was soe's baby all the way.

That statement might be more compelling if you provided a link to that interview, as it is it seems to verge on the BS.

Google is your friend.  I'm too lazy to link it.  Its been posted here before.  Funny how you didn't ask the people blaming LA and absolving soe to provide or link.

I found a very useful article which provides many links regarding $OE/Jeff Freeman's involvement with the NGE. $OE designed the NGE abomination and obviously sold the garbage to LA.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/op-ed/801-SWG-NGE-Crying-Freeman

The article seems to summarize and organize the many threads/posts from the SWG sub-forum here on mmorpg.com.

Some additional Q&A -

http://www.mmofringe.com/forum/15-Star-Wars-Galaxies/157-jeff-freeman-revelation-archive

That's just heresay from a disgruntled employee who spoke out against the NGE many times. He even left the SWG team shortly after the NGE was released.

"Despite the fact that he continued to suffer online abuse at the hands of Star Wars Galaxies players unhappy with the NGE changes even after leaving Sony Online Entertainment in late 2006
Read more at http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/86552-Jeff-Freeman-Former-SWG-Lead-Gameplay-Designer-Dies#oJPMq3W5ULoRGPys.99"

He also took his own life due to personal issues 2 years later.

 

I posted several interviews and letters from the creator of the NGE above. Tores is the man you want to point fingers at. Smed took full blame. But honestly, NGE made the game better but destroyed several aspects along the way. But in the end what SOE did with the NGE is a plus, they added so many features and tried new things, not like the stagnated games of today. Do believe the last thing they worked on was atmospheric flight which was pretty cool and original.

Problem was SWG was too complex for your average gamer, and too many gamers want their mmorpg's to play like console rpg's. They want to reach max level in 3 days not spend 3 days learning the game. This is what our gamers community has become, and it has suffered for it as well.

Please  clarify the disgruntled employee...Freeman? Please clarify the NGE creator. Best yet, please link those posted interviews. Defend $OE all you like, but the NGE was $OE designed and LA approved. I am not saying LA wasn't demanding changes, fixes and/or improvements - but development and design was $OE's job ...LA was the final approval.

  dbacher

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/13/05
Posts: 3

7/11/13 9:50:44 PM#33

Sony had a focus group.
It was forced on them by Lucas Arts.

Sony was aware it was going to tick off 2/3 of the player base to some extent, and made the change anyway. That isn't Sony's management, that isn't Smed. Smed will pick your pocket while he's talking to you, smiling huge, and afterwards you'll thank him for it. He's good at avoiding things, generally, that are going to cause huge numbers of players to complain.

For example, if you look at Omens of War -- when Sony tried to push the shit out after Gates of Discord, just like 3 months or something when people hadn't cleared GoD yet, there was a lot of noise. Sony immediately relented, pushed the date out, and rebalanced some of the encounters in Gates. Immediately.

When you look at what happened with NGE -- 1.75m accounts gone -- that wasn't Smed. If it had been Smed, the accounts would have hung around. The fact he couldn't even find a way to spin it to save even 1/3 of the accounts in the game indicates that it was not his decision.

Because again, Smed is great at separating players from their cash -- it's the reason Sony keeps him around. That and they can't find their office keys after they talk to him.

Here's my money, if I were going to bet.

Take Second Life. Cross it with Wonderful World of Eamon, Adventure Construction Set and Little Big Planet.

Take a look at LBP as an example. People can make anything. It doesn't really unbalance anything, that the people can make stuff. Meanwhile, Sony can collect money continuously off of micro transactions.

That's what I'm thinking its going to be, most likely. Once you have your group/raid, you're going to go fight some absurdly over powered thing. You're going to kite a dozen spiders while two bards are playing guitar hero, your main tank is yelling obscenities at the mob, and your healing circle is doing a 2/7 split or w/e.

You don't really need Sony to design that over powered mob. I can give a mob some absurd number of hitpoints, too, and put some weird conditions about spawning adds every 3.14% of its health or whatever.

Meanwhile, you're going to get some cool item -- but it's just numbers, and every item about the same level has about the same numbers. =P

Just saying. If I want a sword to look like a giant pink banana, I don't see where that really matters at all to the game system, etc.

  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

7/11/13 10:00:43 PM#34
Originally posted by Ginaz
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by noncley
But can Smedley, the Father of the NGE, be trusted?

Smed had nothing to do with the nge it was LA and julio torres.

Prove it.  Provide a link or its BS.

 

google is your friend, he might be too lazy to link it.                                                                                                                     

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  Starbuck1771

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/09/06
Posts: 284

7/11/13 10:15:01 PM#35
Originally posted by Myrdynn
I dont think there are jedis or other lame stuff from SW in EQN, so NO

Swords with magic/power what does that sound like.

Jedi/Paladins

Sith/Deathknights

You were saying? LOL :P

  aRtFuLThinG

Elite Member

Joined: 4/30/09
Posts: 1087

7/11/13 10:25:47 PM#36
Originally posted by Myrdynn
I dont think there are jedis or other lame stuff from SW in EQN, so NO

There were very few jedis from pre-NGE SWG.

You must be thinking of the other SW game.

Born in the 90s, you are, I bet, lol.

  Starbuck1771

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/09/06
Posts: 284

7/11/13 10:32:17 PM#37
Originally posted by ignore_me
Originally posted by Ginaz
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by noncley
But can Smedley, the Father of the NGE, be trusted?

Smed had nothing to do with the nge it was LA and julio torres.

Prove it.  Provide a link or its BS.

 

google is your friend, he might be too lazy to link it.                                                                                                                     

Jeff freeman is mainly to blaim not Smedley. He had the main idea showed it to Julio then the rest was history. Why else do you think Julio bailed from SWG and we ended up with Jake Neri as the new LA producer. Freeman admited his role in the NGE before he commited suicide.

  Ginaz

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/01/07
Posts: 1721

7/12/13 8:27:46 PM#38
Originally posted by dbacher

Sony had a focus group.
It was forced on them by Lucas Arts.

Sony was aware it was going to tick off 2/3 of the player base to some extent, and made the change anyway. That isn't Sony's management, that isn't Smed. Smed will pick your pocket while he's talking to you, smiling huge, and afterwards you'll thank him for it. He's good at avoiding things, generally, that are going to cause huge numbers of players to complain.

For example, if you look at Omens of War -- when Sony tried to push the shit out after Gates of Discord, just like 3 months or something when people hadn't cleared GoD yet, there was a lot of noise. Sony immediately relented, pushed the date out, and rebalanced some of the encounters in Gates. Immediately.

When you look at what happened with NGE -- 1.75m accounts gone -- that wasn't Smed. If it had been Smed, the accounts would have hung around. The fact he couldn't even find a way to spin it to save even 1/3 of the accounts in the game indicates that it was not his decision.

Because again, Smed is great at separating players from their cash -- it's the reason Sony keeps him around. That and they can't find their office keys after they talk to him.

Here's my money, if I were going to bet.

Take Second Life. Cross it with Wonderful World of Eamon, Adventure Construction Set and Little Big Planet.

Take a look at LBP as an example. People can make anything. It doesn't really unbalance anything, that the people can make stuff. Meanwhile, Sony can collect money continuously off of micro transactions.

That's what I'm thinking its going to be, most likely. Once you have your group/raid, you're going to go fight some absurdly over powered thing. You're going to kite a dozen spiders while two bards are playing guitar hero, your main tank is yelling obscenities at the mob, and your healing circle is doing a 2/7 split or w/e.

You don't really need Sony to design that over powered mob. I can give a mob some absurd number of hitpoints, too, and put some weird conditions about spawning adds every 3.14% of its health or whatever.

Meanwhile, you're going to get some cool item -- but it's just numbers, and every item about the same level has about the same numbers. =P

Just saying. If I want a sword to look like a giant pink banana, I don't see where that really matters at all to the game system, etc.

Its a cool theory and all, except for the fact you have absolutely no facts to back it up.  Until you do, its just another theory by some random internet dude.

Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10924

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

7/12/13 8:36:40 PM#39

Holy cats, this argument again?

It doesn't matter if Smedley thought up the NGE or not. SOE was happy to implement the changes, happy to not bother telling their players about the changes, and if the NGE really was LA's idea, Smedley was happy to lie about it, saying the changes were necessary to fix long standing bugs in the game.

It doesn't matter if Smedley or LA or both of them together came up with the NGE, Smedley is a talking head, not to be trusted when selling something. Only after the game no longer exists can his words be trusted.

**

EQN could still be awesome, but it should be judged on its own merits, not Smedley's words.

** **

Oh, I just read the OP. This thread is nothing but that argument. Figures. I think a discussion on EQN implementing things that people miss would be a decent discussion. It's possible that SOE could do it, and feasible since they may have learned from their experience.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  darkhalf357x

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/25/12
Posts: 1111

I'm only playing the role chosen for me. Who you supposed to be?

7/12/13 8:38:51 PM#40

SWG and everything it represented died when they turned the servers off.  No one has interest in creating an immersive world and that is obviously apparent to anyone who has played MMOs in the last 5 years.

I give respect for keeping the dream alive... 

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