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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » Would you play EQNext if it was as brutal as GoD?

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38 posts found
  Roguewiz

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/01/02
Posts: 454

When a Kender says "oops!"; its already too late.

7/10/13 12:26:55 PM#21

You know, I'm not sure.  GoD wasn't that bad.  Granted, I didn't raid everything in the expansion.  I quit halfway through.

I want a game to be difficult, scrub that, I want it to be challenging; but not Dark Souls difficult (albeit, Dark Souls is freaking awesome) and certainly not WOW easy.

Would I jump ship if EQN was that brutal?  Probably not.  It really depends on how good/bad the character advancement is.  If I can offset the brutal aspect of the game by making "the build", then I'll stick around.

I be Raq, destroyer of game balance!
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: League of Legends, Dark Souls 2, Elder Scrolls Online
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next (And Landmark)
Trying to beat Dark Souls without using magic is like having a naked hot blond give you a root canal every day; painful and enjoyable at the same time.

  Gallus85

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 922

7/10/13 12:28:21 PM#22
Originally posted by SavageHorizon
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by wizardanim

From what I remember - numerically, it was nearly impossible to beat because content was designed for the next expansion.  

With that said, having some content that is numerically too hard may spark some unique strategy, as it did in EQ1, it could be fun.  We had a turnout of over 100 people for elemental bosses in PoPower - multiple guilds and participants.  Yes, GoD even drove elite guilds to quit - but the content in question was far out of reach from the general population (progression and gear), and no one wanted to collaborate. 

Though, I'm not saying that I'd prefer to not allow a single group/guild to complete content of an expansion - I would prefer it if content like this was implemented (too hard), that it was an additional feature for fun, not a primary point in the games progression.

I liked GoD because you had something to work upto, you knew no one could beat it easily and you slowly made progress.

In new MMO I feel like everyone is just racing agains the clock, walsing through content as fast as possible, there's no time to reflect and invent a new strategy, it's just GO GO GO. I like progress that takes some time.

It's not so much the content that is hard, it's more the pace that is slow because of the hard content, I don't feel rushed.

Yeah but you don't want that type of difficulty all the way through. In this day and age most would simply leave the game, can you imagine the GW2 players or any of these latest mmo playing EQN if it was like GOD all the way through.

Most people couldn't even beat the 5 man exploration mode dungeons in GW2 and many that did slogged through it zerging with multiple deaths lol.  Even on the first lvl 30 dungeon lolol.

I hope EQN is like that, personally. :)

Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 10803

7/10/13 12:36:22 PM#23

wiki has a good overview in the "controversy" writeup

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EverQuest:_Gates_of_Discord

Matters came to a head when Woody Hearn, a notable gamer and cartoonist of GU Comics website called for the boycott of the next planned expansion Omens of War.[2]

When released, some of the content was nearly unplayable for most of the player base. Numerous bugs were discovered in the game with the release of the expansion, which also updated the graphics and geometry engine. Old content seemingly unrelated to the new expansion "broke", requiring the immediate attention of the new developers or online guides and GMs. One explanation offered is that during expansion developments there was a "changing of the guard" in the staff at SOE, leading or contributing to these issues. It was also revealed that a management mistake had been made in which some of the content was meant for the next tier cap of player levels - level 70. A SOE game developer confirmed that SOE designed Gates of Discord with level 70 in mind, but SOE did not include the planned tier cap increase from 65.[1] This management mistake ensured that several critical points of the expansion were unbeatable by most players at that time, both for single groups and raids. Whatever the cause, these issues were eventually addressed, but too late to prevent controversy.

Several "uberguilds" (highly powerful and influential groups of players), including Fires of Heaven, Afterlife, Ascent, and Keepers of the Faith, departed from EverQuest around this time. Many of these players acted as beta testers for World of Warcraft, which was in development for release later in the year, although by spring of 2005 some returned. This possibly had something to do with EQ becoming a game with fairer competition due to instanced raids.

In response to player criticism, SOE organized a summit in the summer of 2004 to hear the main concerns of the playerbase towards Gates of Discord and EverQuest in general.[1] The summit's guests included influential players and gamers from guild leaderships and fan websites, notably among them Woody Hearn (of GU Comics). SOE also delayed the release the next expansion Omens of War by several months to give time for the GoD quality issues to be addressed.[3]

 

 

http://www.gucomics.com/20040607

 

  User Deleted
7/10/13 12:37:14 PM#24

I don't really care how harsh a game is... If through learning the systems of the game etc things make sense.   Which means you can smart.. you can win.   Or if you are game smart you do have a chance to recover from a bad (not suicidal) encounter.

 

Most MMO's just seem to go to some system which makes zero sense and then declare it "difficult" or a challenge.   God mode on a NPC (as an example) isn't a challenge in my opinion.   Games used to be a lot more interesting at least my memory tells me they were.

 

Basicly what I mean is.. I don't mind figuring stuff out at all.   I don't mind if I die while in that process.   Dying simply because that's the script no matter what I do.. is not going to interest me.   I played Ultima Online up until EQ came out and then went back and forth (all but one friend moved to EQ) so I don't exactly find current games harsh in comparison to what UO was like in 97/98.

  kniltsol

Novice Member

Joined: 6/25/13
Posts: 10

7/10/13 12:40:12 PM#25

"It's cute"

LOVE IT!

  Gallus85

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 922

7/10/13 1:21:03 PM#26
I agree. They just dont make hardcore games like they used to. LOK made UO look like a baby's toy. Ahhh the good ol days.

Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  Lokero

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 4/30/06
Posts: 324

7/10/13 2:36:46 PM#27
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by SavageHorizon
Originally posted by arieste
I've no idea what GoD is but i'm all for brutality.  Loved AoC.

It's an EQ expansion called Gates Of Discord, it's nothing to do with how brutal the game was like AOC. The expansion came after Lost Dungeons Of Norrath. It was a mess with unfinished content or unbeatable content, some would actually say it was the nail in the coffin for some top EQ guilds and normal players.

This was the same year that WOW came out and the OOW was delayed till later in the year, basically 2 months before WOW came out.

People complain games are too easy.

Then they make an expansion hard and people call it broken and quit the game. lol

It's cute.

Haha, well to be fair, I was around in EQ still at that time.  And, what some of the others said above, the expansion was designed for level 70s, but the level cap remained 65 when it launched(they rushed the release of the expansion).  So, it was pretty much unbeatable for just about everyone.

Point: it really was broken :p

  Trudge34

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/08/12
Posts: 386

7/10/13 2:43:04 PM#28
Originally posted by Lokero
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by SavageHorizon
Originally posted by arieste
I've no idea what GoD is but i'm all for brutality.  Loved AoC.

It's an EQ expansion called Gates Of Discord, it's nothing to do with how brutal the game was like AOC. The expansion came after Lost Dungeons Of Norrath. It was a mess with unfinished content or unbeatable content, some would actually say it was the nail in the coffin for some top EQ guilds and normal players.

This was the same year that WOW came out and the OOW was delayed till later in the year, basically 2 months before WOW came out.

People complain games are too easy.

Then they make an expansion hard and people call it broken and quit the game. lol

It's cute.

Haha, well to be fair, I was around in EQ still at that time.  And, what some of the others said above, the expansion was designed for level 70s, but the level cap remained 65 when it launched(they rushed the release of the expansion).  So, it was pretty much unbeatable for just about everyone.

Point: it really was broken :p

I never did get through Tipt while I played GoD. Got past the first named but never completed the whole run. From what I remember, we always had a charmed mob tank the named because he hit way too hard for pretty much every tank...

GoD wasn't the expansion anyways that did it in for me, but OoW. Didn't feel like grinding out the next couple levels and saw that loot that I had raided for was now dropping with some regularity off of named mobs in the newest expansion. Think The Bloodfields was the place to go for that. Was just kind of deflating to me.

Played: EQ1 (10 Years), Guild Wars, Rift, TERA
Tried: EQ2, Vanguard, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic and countless others...
Currently Playing: GW2

Nytlok Sylas
80 Sylvari Ranger

  Betaguy

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2359

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

7/10/13 2:47:07 PM#29
Sure... I remember being in a sever first guild on Uldaman, we spent a month every night wiping on Magtheradon. We also never beat Naxx before it was removed either... we had like half the gear sets none complete. 

  Lokero

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 4/30/06
Posts: 324

7/10/13 3:07:11 PM#30
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by Vayman

 

One thing that "impossible" content does is bring together the community. Even a large guild might need to send out word for more people to ally with to take down Big Impossible Boss X. Everyone working together - strangers, even - tends to build camaraderie. Especially once the bad guy drops.

True, I think most EQ players made their best friends in the game during hardship, at least I did.

This makes me think back to when The Sleeper was actually defeated, yet he wasn't designed to be killed.  That was the epitome of community effort.  I think it was on Rallos Zek server when they did that? I don't remember, I didn't play there.

It was never expected to be killed by the devs, it constantly Death-touched people and had no loot tables at all because they never thought anyone would kill it.  That was legendary when people swarmed down the biggest, basically most "impossible" super boss in the entire EQ universe.

  sirphobos

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/10/11
Posts: 532

7/10/13 3:35:14 PM#31
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by SavageHorizon
Originally posted by arieste
I've no idea what GoD is but i'm all for brutality.  Loved AoC.

It's an EQ expansion called Gates Of Discord, it's nothing to do with how brutal the game was like AOC. The expansion came after Lost Dungeons Of Norrath. It was a mess with unfinished content or unbeatable content, some would actually say it was the nail in the coffin for some top EQ guilds and normal players.

This was the same year that WOW came out and the OOW was delayed till later in the year, basically 2 months before WOW came out.

People complain games are too easy.

Then they make an expansion hard and people call it broken and quit the game. lol

It's cute.

There's a difference between hard and poorly tuned to the point where a lot of the content is literally unbeatable by anyone, and the rest of the content is only beatable by the absolute most hardcore players.  Content like GoD will never exist in a MMO again.  It was a mistake and everyone who played when it was released knows it.

  Telondariel

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/11/10
Posts: 847

7/10/13 3:36:38 PM#32
Originally posted by SavageHorizon
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by wizardanim

From what I remember - numerically, it was nearly impossible to beat because content was designed for the next expansion.  

With that said, having some content that is numerically too hard may spark some unique strategy, as it did in EQ1, it could be fun.  We had a turnout of over 100 people for elemental bosses in PoPower - multiple guilds and participants.  Yes, GoD even drove elite guilds to quit - but the content in question was far out of reach from the general population (progression and gear), and no one wanted to collaborate. 

Though, I'm not saying that I'd prefer to not allow a single group/guild to complete content of an expansion - I would prefer it if content like this was implemented (too hard), that it was an additional feature for fun, not a primary point in the games progression.

I liked GoD because you had something to work upto, you knew no one could beat it easily and you slowly made progress.

In new MMO I feel like everyone is just racing agains the clock, walsing through content as fast as possible, there's no time to reflect and invent a new strategy, it's just GO GO GO. I like progress that takes some time.

It's not so much the content that is hard, it's more the pace that is slow because of the hard content, I don't feel rushed.

Yeah but you don't want that type of difficulty all the way through. In this day and age most would simply leave the game, can you imagine the GW2 players or any of these latest mmo playing EQN if it was like GOD all the way through.

 

I think early EQ2 was pretty good for hard content, you really stayed in the cities and leveled up as much as you could before  venturing out and then you needed a group to really get a head. I also like Vanguards level of hard or easy scale, you can solo but you really have to group to get ahead and earn the big results.

Relying on other players is great.

I agree.  That would make EQN a niche, hardcore game and I'm quite certain it is going to be the polar opposite of that. 

 

I am absolutely for having challenging content.  However, I don't think that should entirely mean you need to raid or find 4 other people to complete it.  Yes, bring on the content for people that like to do that;  let's also acknowledge other play-stlyes while still making it challenging (and doable) for them as well.  Judging by how EQ and EQ2 have evolved, I see EQN being accessible to many types of players with a lot of options to occupy a wide spectrum of the community.

 

To answer the OP question:  Hell no.

  keenber

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/10/07
Posts: 430

7/10/13 3:37:10 PM#33
 i loved god until they nerfed it hell i made over 1 mill plat farming the arena with my crapy geared druid. But i do know lots hated that place because it used to eat them in a few hits lol silly players just gotta learn not to get hit.
  Tibbz

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/07
Posts: 617

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in a group"

7/10/13 3:43:51 PM#34
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by wizardanim

From what I remember - numerically, it was nearly impossible to beat because content was designed for the next expansion.  

With that said, having some content that is numerically too hard may spark some unique strategy, as it did in EQ1, it could be fun.  We had a turnout of over 100 people for elemental bosses in PoPower - multiple guilds and participants.  Yes, GoD even drove elite guilds to quit - but the content in question was far out of reach from the general population (progression and gear), and no one wanted to collaborate. 

Though, I'm not saying that I'd prefer to not allow a single group/guild to complete content of an expansion - I would prefer it if content like this was implemented (too hard), that it was an additional feature for fun, not a primary point in the games progression.

I liked GoD because you had something to work upto, you knew no one could beat it easily and you slowly made progress.

In new MMO I feel like everyone is just racing agains the clock, walsing through content as fast as possible, there's no time to reflect and invent a new strategy, it's just GO GO GO. I like progress that takes some time.

It's not so much the content that is hard, it's more the pace that is slow because of the hard content, I don't feel rushed.

This...

BTW, doesn't anyone remember "The Sleeper?"  Dang near impossible bosses need to be in every game! 

  Gallus85

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 922

7/10/13 3:54:53 PM#35
Originally posted by sirphobos
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by SavageHorizon
Originally posted by arieste
I've no idea what GoD is but i'm all for brutality.  Loved AoC.

It's an EQ expansion called Gates Of Discord, it's nothing to do with how brutal the game was like AOC. The expansion came after Lost Dungeons Of Norrath. It was a mess with unfinished content or unbeatable content, some would actually say it was the nail in the coffin for some top EQ guilds and normal players.

This was the same year that WOW came out and the OOW was delayed till later in the year, basically 2 months before WOW came out.

People complain games are too easy.

Then they make an expansion hard and people call it broken and quit the game. lol

It's cute.

There's a difference between hard and poorly tuned to the point where a lot of the content is literally unbeatable by anyone, and the rest of the content is only beatable by the absolute most hardcore players.  Content like GoD will never exist in a MMO again.  It was a mistake and everyone who played when it was released knows it.

Sort of.  There's a difference between hard and time sink.  GoD was hard.  Taking 5 months to hit level cap via grinding mundane mobs that stand no chance against your group is not hard, it's tedious.

GoD was hard, not broken.  It was way harder than most people could handle, but it was still hard, not broken. The only time it's broken is when the outcome of the game is predetermined.  Then it's not a game any more.  If I say "Lets play a game.  The person named Gallus85 wins..... that's not a game because you had no say in the outcome.  A mob that can not be hurt because it has god-mode turned on is not hard, it would be "broken". 

However, GoD was eventually beaten but the very best players, and it stressed them to the limits to do it, and it took a lot of time and dedication.

You might not have liked it, and it might not have gone over well with the community at large, but it was not broken.  It was just really hard.  Which is exactly what a lot of people on here champion for.

My point?  Be careful what you guys wish for lol.  Because sometimes, you get exactly what you wanted.

Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  Bumdarf

Novice Member

Joined: 6/03/09
Posts: 1

"Long Live the Brotherhood"

7/10/13 6:53:55 PM#36
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by DMKano

GoD wasn't that brutal, it sure was ugly and uninspiring imo.

It's the only MMO expansion I know of that wasn't beaten before the next one came out. Tunat wasn't killed on any server before OOW.

Would people be ok if an expansion is unbeatable nowadays?

 

GoD was Brutal, but awesome. Definitely not smart, that is for sure.

However, there was one guild that beat GoD before OOW was unlocked. The only guild to beat Tunat at the lvl 65 lock

http://roiguild.org/2007/04/

Watch out come EQ Next

"Love live the brotherhood"

Bumdaorf - Realm of Insanity

Bumdaorf - Realm of Insanity Main Tank - Everquest

  Camoeb

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/06/06
Posts: 49

7/10/13 8:10:25 PM#37
Originally posted by Pitbull9784
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by DMKano

GoD wasn't that brutal, it sure was ugly and uninspiring imo.

It's the only MMO expansion I know of that wasn't beaten before the next one came out. Tunat wasn't killed on any server before OOW.

Would people be ok if an expansion is unbeatable nowadays?

 

GoD was Brutal, but awesome. Definitely not smart, that is for sure.

However, there was one guild that beat GoD before OOW was unlocked. The only guild to beat Tunat at the lvl 65 lock

http://roiguild.org/2007/04/

Watch out come EQ Next

"Love live the brotherhood"

Bumdaorf - Realm of Insanity

That was on a progression server though wasn't it? I really wouldn't count it unless it happened on live before the OoW release which was fall of 2004 if I remember correctly.

  Justsomenoob

Novice Member

Joined: 10/20/10
Posts: 869

7/10/13 8:21:35 PM#38

I'd like SOME content to be like that.

 

Not GoD all the way through because that was garbage, it was just a screw up.

 

But having some content around that you are extremely unlikely to beat?   Maybe impossible?   Sure, that's good.   Maybe players can come up with a way and beat it anyway, maybe they'll have to wait until they get stronger in an expansion or something.   No problem.

 

We don't need every boss encounter to be something like "Our testers wiped a few times and then completed it on the 4th try once they learned the 100% scripted mechanics that are the same every time and they figured out what fire to not stand in"

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