Trending Games | Skyforge | Shards | Chronicles of Elyria | Guild Wars 2

    Facebook Twitter YouTube
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:3,031,265 Users Online:0
Games:843  Posts:6,484,016
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online AD2460 ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Ninja Anime Pirates Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord 2 Archlord X Armored Warfare Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Bionic Marine Command Online Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blackguards 2 Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodborne Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chroma Squad Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crowfall Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Heart Online Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dying Light Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthlock: Festival of Magic Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Fable Legends Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
GRAV GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods Rush Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Hand of Fate Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Immune Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online Kill Strain King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Grimrock 2 Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lords of the Fallen 2 Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Hunter 4: Ultimate Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Necropolis Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Nova Genesis Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Overwatch Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Rebel Galaxy Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Chronicles Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Conflict Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Coast Legends Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Banner Saga 2 The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Trapped Dead: Lockdown Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Triad Wars Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utherous Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warriors World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles 3D Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik Discussion Forums

EVE Online

EVE Online 

Jita (General)  » Would EvE still be a sandbox without PvP?

2 Pages 1 2 » Search
36 posts found

Novice Member

Joined: 6/23/13
Posts: 9

OP  7/06/13 1:13:56 AM#1

I am trying to find what the definition is of a sandbox. What games are sandbox? What games aren't? Why is it ok for people to use the word "sandbox" to describe both EQ and EvE when they are both completely different?

 I've been thinking a lot about this, ever since smedley said that EQN will be "the largest sandbox ever". People really love to spew that EQ was a sandbox, especially in the EQN forum in this site, but I don't think it was. I think it was the original themepark. The only competition that EQ back then was UO, the one I think was the original sandbox.

This is my conclusion thus far (you are more than welcome to try to change it) that in order for a game to be a true sandbox it has to be.... open world PvP like EvE. 


Now this is the experiment, please, only people that play EvE try to answer this.

Before you answer, read this article as to why EQ is not a sandbox. and this video from this really smart guy in youtube that pretty much defines what a sandbox is and should be.


Now, here is a list of things that would no longer happen in EvE without PvP.

- No more ganking

- No more bounties on people

- No more gate camping 

- No more piracy

- No more ways to take unwanted people out from your base system (This one would piss me off, there is to many people trying to mine in our system in the past few weeks, we keep killing all of them but they just keep coming, bastards.) 

- No more danger hulling things

- No more great stories about GOONS, TEST, or anyone else because those type of large alliances would no longer be needed to keep control over territories.

- No more spies, they would no longer be needed.

- Pretty much all danger from other players is gone....


Now answer it, eve players.


If EvE had no PvP, none, just PvE. Would it still be a sandbox? (Be as detailed as you possibly can, please.)


(I am going to go spend time with my family, so I won't be able to check this for a while, but still, try to answer the question as best you can. I will check on this tomorrow. Good night. )


Novice Member

Joined: 7/23/12
Posts: 464

7/06/13 1:21:04 AM#2
Well i tell you this as old EVE  player.  EVE is not true sandbox game at all, you can't build what ever and where ever you want, you can't craft new things, in fact you are limited in many things. EVE is pure PVP game with some small sandbox elements, heavy restricted in high sec and with little more freedom in low sec.

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 3098

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

7/06/13 1:27:51 AM#3



PvP never has been part of the definition for a Sandbox game.  Although to Developer's credit it is something easily implemented to give longevity to a game.  However I am looking for a truly epic PvE sandbox game with many game systems to create this same longevity we all seek.  IMO the best way to do this is through long progression times and hugely massive worlds that takes a long time to traverse.

Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!


Elite Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1579

7/06/13 1:32:22 AM#4

If EvE didn't have any PvP it would be either F2P or shutdown by now, like most PvE based games. It would be a completely different game with no PvP.

Most of the sandbox elements within EvE do rotate around Players interacting with one another. That's not to say you have to have PvP for sandbox elements to exist.


Old School

Joined: 12/29/02
Posts: 2333

"Free to play, pay to win""

7/06/13 1:35:04 AM#5

Kind of weird to discuss, considering that the game would simply crumble apart. Eve upholds quite a basic principle:

Create > Destroy > Create > Destroy


That said, I think we all agree that a sandbox doesn't NEED PvP. But personally, it makes it that much more interesting.


Feel like trying Planetside 2? Get a headstart with the starter kit!


Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/11
Posts: 1161

Sandbox is your only hope for a decent mmo ;)

7/06/13 1:43:36 AM#6

Sandbox has nothing to do with pvp at all. Many sandbox games have limited or NO pvp at all.

Sandbox is about all the other stuff like exploration, crafting, building, social interaction, chatting, house decoration, and much,  much more.


This post to me just shows that the OP has no clue what a sandbox is. And the misconceptions that hurt a true sandbox.


Novice Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 3217

"A very special kind of stupidity"

7/06/13 4:54:09 AM#7

The essence of a "sandbox" is being able to effect change in the elements of the game world. The players are part of a multiplayer game world. A reduction of my ability to interact with those elements is a reduction in the "sandboxiness" of the game.

PvP is one "sandbox" element in a game. I'm not saying it's absolutely required to call a game a sandbox, but it does seem to me as if it's a huge mechanically imposed reduction in the degree of freedom to not have it.

Consider two otherwise identical "sandbox" games; one has non-consensual PvP and the other doesn't. How can we call the second more of a sandbox than the first?

Give me liberty or give me lasers


Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/11
Posts: 1366

7/06/13 5:17:03 AM#8

I'm going to say no on the basis that I don't think the game would still be live and active as without the pvp i'm not sure it would work.  

I can't even fathom what the economy would be like.  I just don't think EVE would work without the pvp and therefore I vote "No, the game wouldn't be a sandbox because the game wouldn't still be around."

pure speculation, but anyone who knows anything about the game knows you can't just remove something as big as the pvp from eve online and not have huge repercussions.

I get that this deviates somewhat from the spirit of the question, but that is as much as i'm going to contribute to a sandbox definition thread.

edit: BizkitNL and immodium pretty much summed it up, but i'm watchign my D-Scan so didn't notice it.  As i'm very close to being on the "destroyed" part of the spectrum as we speak.


Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 9103

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

7/06/13 5:19:09 AM#9
Yes it would still be sandbox, but not fun anymore, noboddy would be playing it in my opinion its pvp what makes eve stand out

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)


Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/10/13
Posts: 500

7/06/13 6:15:26 AM#10

First to answer the question you need to have a base ground for what is sandbox?

I bet every person that has ever read a post on forum about this being sandbox or that being sandbox will have different ideas.

So, prior to answer the question should be the "what is sandbox" regardless of game - A quick google of the term comes up with this


Definition - What does Sandbox mean?

Sandbox is a style of game in which minimal character limitations are placed on the gamer, allowing the gamer to roam and change a virtual world at will. In contrast to a progression-style game, a sandbox game emphasizes roaming and allows a gamer to select tasks. Instead of featuring segmented areas or numbered levels, a sandbox game usually occurs in a “world” to which the gamer has full access from start to finish.

source -

So if you use techopedia version of sandbox then it would lead onto the fact that unless a game HAD PvP then it could never be sandbox, because, how can you say to players that you can do such a fundemental thing as shoot each other and then try and claim that your a sandbox.

To me eve is about 90% sandbox, there are some restrictions (all games need restrictions) but its about as close as yo can get to sandbox However, remove the PvP and as i said then no game in my opinion can be sandbox with out it.

But a stage further, having PvP alone isn't enough, the PvP has to allow non - consensual because allowing consent is not sandbox,


FTR my understanding of sandbox is that it is an attempt to make a game as open as you wish it to be. If you want to do something then you can do it - or at least attempt to do it. for instance, If i want to murder someone in a game then i can, and the game should not have constraints to stop me.

Finally ,this leads me onto why its only 90% - the fact is there are some strict rules (for the good of the game ) such as no n00b bashing in starter systems - but for eg this rule only counts in that exact system  IE Chaven - once that player jumps out then he has basically said "yes i am  happy to be killed by anyone for any reason they feel like" however inside charen they have the 'shield of GM' around them. But even this is not a permanent shield, it is in fact only 28days, after the 29th day your game where ever you are in EvE.


I want to point out the bold bit and underlined. this is all my opinion, but i of course welcome debate on anything i have put, personal slander / name calling belongs in game :) were of course your welcome to call me names after all its a sandbox.


This post is all my opinion, but I welcome debate on anything i have put, however, personal slander / name calling belongs in game :) were of course your welcome to call me names im often found lounging about in EvE online.
Use this code for 21days trial in eve online


Novice Member

Joined: 9/11/10
Posts: 400

Facta, non verba.

7/06/13 11:13:29 AM#11


I feel as this question is sort of a bait question to take us further down the rabbit hole of..."without PvP, sandbox games could exist but gankers need it." Or maybe I'm just a jaded old vet of games like EvE. If you read any of my previous posts about sandbox vs anything else games, I have always stood by the tacit that unless the game developers give me the tools to enforce the rules, then it really isn't a sandbox. 

Of course, this is my definition. I would assume there are exceptions to the rule, i.e., A Tale in the Desert, but c'est la vie. As I look over your list of what wouldn't happen w/o PvP in ganking, no piracy, no bounties, no gate reminds me of some of my favorite experiences in that game.

Further down the list is what kept me in EvE for as long as I played..the ability to control space. As I was part of several alliances in my time, I was on the winning and losing sides of this. Nothing I have done in an MMO has rivaled this experience. Setting alarm clocks to get up for CTA's, watching the ventrillo log in go from 10-20 players to 75 in a matter of mins, the weight of FC'ing and knowing that our space was under attack. 

Darkfall had some of this as well, but I didn't care for the clunky combat system. DF, like EvE was all about the people you were with. Again, PvP was the tent pole in the whole gaming experience. 

Ganking, general asshattery, all the bad is worth it to be able to control assets. I guess that's why LOTRO, and several other MMO's didn't do it for me. Once you have experienced the rush of PvP that has consequence, everything else pales in comparison.

Playing: BF4/BF:Hardline, Subnautica 7 days to die
Hiatus: EvE
Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh)
Interested in: better games in general


Elite Member

Joined: 6/08/10
Posts: 2232

7/06/13 11:30:21 AM#12

Horrible premise. PvP doesn't create sandboxes, nor does it define them.


Look at what sandbox games are named after . . . sandboxes. They are titled that way because you get the sand, you get the tools (shovel, bucket, whatever else your parents bought you) and you get to play in the sand doing whatever you want with the tools available.

That's it. That's the whole definition of sandbox. Developers give you the game, they give you the tools and let you interact with the world (the sand) however you see fit within the tools parameters.

PvP is not a tool, nor is it sand. PvP is something gamers like to do - some of them like to do it all the time, some of them like to do it none of the time and lots like to mix'n'match.

The reason EVE would suck without PvP is because it's actually a bad game and has very little sandbox to it. Outside of choosing your skills there really isn't much customization in EVE. You can't make up ships by piecing together whatever parts you want to come up with a unique ship. CCP designs and puts the ships in the game. Yes, you can fiddle with how they function in combat, but there's not much else you can do.

You can't affect the game world either. PvP is only an illusion of changing the game world because it's impacting players and their "control" of any particular system. The world is the sand, the players are not the sand. You can mess with other people all you want, but it has nothing to do with sandbox.

Think of it this way, in WoW if a large group of people were dedicated enough they could "control" an enemy faction zone by killing NPC's and camping the area. It's exactly the same thing. No matter how long they stay there, they have not had an effect on the game world, just on other players. Does WoW become a sandbox if a group of players chooses to do that? No.

If players in EVE could develop systems into something, then yes they are affecting the game world and are engaging in sandbox gameplay. As it stands now, fighting over resources is not related to sandbox game player at all. It's just PvP - it can feel a bit like freedom, but it's really an illusion because if you asked the question the OP asked which is "what happens if you remove the pvp?" and you find out that the game fall flat without it, then you didn't really have a sandbox in the first place.

Does minecraft have pvp? I'm sure there's a mod, but it's pretty much a literal version of a sandbox. You get the sand, you get the tools, you go sandboxing.

If you can mess around with the sand, then you're not playing a sandbox. People are never the sand, they are the players. This is why EVE is the biggest myth of MMO's, it's great fun to speculate about how awesome it is, but it's really not awesome, it's a shallow game that requires encyclopeadic knowledge to participate in. Take away the pvp, all that knowledge is meaningless, the game doesn't stand up on its because there is no game.


Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 13665

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

7/06/13 11:32:51 AM#13
Without PVP combat, EVE would still be a sandbox, just a really crappy one. That is not because a sandbox needs PVP combat but because EVE's sandbox is built around it. There's no PVP combat in ATITD, and that seems to be a rather functional sandbox.

There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein


Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/15/08
Posts: 247

7/07/13 5:13:26 AM#14
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Without PVP combat, EVE would still be a sandbox, just a really crappy one. That is not because a sandbox needs PVP combat but because EVE's sandbox is built around it. There's no PVP combat in ATITD, and that seems to be a rather functional sandbox.

Pretty much. This game is designed to have pvp from the get-go. Removing pvp and the risks associated with it would make this a very dull game overtime. It has nothing to do with pvp->sandbox, but because this one revolves around pvp.


Novice Member

Joined: 12/20/07
Posts: 127

7/07/13 5:26:37 AM#15

I've played EVE, not anymore, but I've also played UO as my first.

For the most technical answer, it's just what it is. Think about playing (IRL) in a sand box. What can you do? Whatever you want to, really. If you have the right tools along with you, you can build stuff in the sand.

A theme park is just that. You have rides, you try them out, and if you like it you can keep riding it. It's a lot of repitition because it gets old fast, and doesn't have as much freedom. You have a lot of people telling you what to do, or how to play a game involving a couple of golf balls.

A sandbox constitues that you can do whatever you like, and still have fun and feel like you're doing something. There is no particular direction, because you can go at the pace you like, and your 'story' is unique to others, everyone has a very different story and it will NEVER be the same.

UO was the original sandbox, and EQ was the original themepark. Anyone who says otherwise, cannot call themselves an MMORPG expert.

In regards to EQNext, I have my speculations... Especially coming from people who ONLY know Themeparks. 'Open world' is different from 'sandbox'. PvP is not an element to make something 'Themepark' or 'Sandbox'. It's just an attribute to a game, like having mounts vs. teleport system is. That's it.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/28/05
Posts: 1518

7/09/13 12:26:16 PM#16
Originally posted by BizkitNL

Kind of weird to discuss, considering that the game would simply crumble apart. Eve upholds quite a basic principle:

Create > Destroy > Create > Destroy


That said, I think we all agree that a sandbox doesn't NEED PvP. But personally, it makes it that much more interesting.


Good answer. Because the funny part is create > Destroy > Create > Destroy is more or less the pinnacle of sandbox gaming. This very process is changing the world. And sandbox is all about building up things and for rehashing destroy all of them, to be able to build up again.

With other words a sandbox without pvp would be possible. (although it is limited about the pvp aspect, because pvp in itself is just another sandbox tool.. but what sandbox is not limited in one aspect or the other)

But you have to look how you(the system, the environment) destroys stuff, to be able for players to build up again. Minecrafts solution to this is server reset every few weeks.

Some pve mmorpg sandboxes tried to increase the world every time the world is full.. but in all honestly that is not a solution.. and they all failed in the end.

Let destory the weather, wandering mobs, evil empire faction, whatever destroy the world from time to time, so that you can build everything up again.. and you may get a working pve sandbox game. Nevertheless pvp is the easier, and maybe better solution for destruction.


PS: My definition for a sandbox in its core. One sentence.

The ability to create, modify, use and destroy persistent objects in a persistent world.



Housing: (would apply to farming or almost anything else)

- Build house

- use that house like opening the door, lock down door

- modify like decoration

- destroy.. like burn it down

Items(Armor, Weapon, Tools)

- craft item

- use item (take sword use it on the head of mob or player)

- modify (is a little bit difficult here, but like enchanting, like dying, like salvaging)

- destroy (breaks down by use, salvaging, etc.)


- create hill

- modify hill to tower

- use tower to live in it

- destroy tower/hill


And as much objects you enhance this ways, as more sandboxy it will be, and as more emergent gameplay can occur. And by the way, the player is just another of those objects in some way.



Advanced Member

Joined: 11/28/07
Posts: 2456

7/09/13 12:31:04 PM#17

I don't think so.  a limitation like that would really send the whole concept of 'sandbox' down the tubes.


It would still be a PVE MMO with a strong player economy.


If someone gives you sand, a shovel, and bucket.. you should be able to knock someone over the head with the bucket and bury them in the sand with the shovel.  I don't know why this is even a question though.  I'm not sure EVE retains as much of it's player base if they go PVE, which I doubt they would do in the first place.


Advanced Member

Joined: 10/11/04
Posts: 3338

7/09/13 12:37:59 PM#18

Yes, absolutely it would.


I've played EVE's sandbox world for months without PvP'ing.    Is it a great PvE game?  Probably not.  SWG was a much better sandbox MMO when it comes to PvE.


"I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

- Raph Koster

Currently Playing: EQ2, Firefall


Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10959

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

7/09/13 12:44:30 PM#19

Originally posted by DAS1337
I don't think so.  a limitation like that would really send the whole concept of 'sandbox' down the tubes.


It would still be a PVE MMO with a strong player economy.


If someone gives you sand, a shovel, and bucket.. you should be able to knock someone over the head with the bucket and bury them in the sand with the shovel.  I don't know why this is even a question though.  I'm not sure EVE retains as much of it's player base if they go PVE, which I doubt they would do in the first place.

A Tale In The Desert is a sandbox game, and it doesn't have combat at all. If you turn PvP off on a Minecraft server, it's still a sandbox building game. Garry's Mod is a sandbox game whether you are playing a mod with combat or not. If not having PvP was a requirement for a sandbox game, then there could be no single player sandbox games.

Requiring PvP for a game to be a sandbox game doesn't make sense. Not if you look at all the games out there that are sandbox games and don't even have combat, much less PvP.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.


Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/16/04
Posts: 7472

"Really officer, they're medicinal herbs."

7/09/13 12:45:29 PM#20
Would EVE still be a sandbox without PvP?  Sure, absolutely.   SWG was a far better sandbox than EVE ever will be and it had whole servers that were dedicated PvE servers.    A good sandbox game does not require PvP to be a sandbox. 

2 Pages 1 2 » Search