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General Discussion  » World of Warcraft going the way of Diablo 3

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75 posts found
  KBishop

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/13
Posts: 205

7/08/13 5:12:53 PM#41
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by KBishop
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Axehilt

WOW gradually going F2P?

Is this actually a surprise? If anything it's a surprise it took so long.

What has it got to do with Diablo 3? It's obviously going the way of F2P games (games which reported 200% or higher revenue increases) and doing something Diablo 3 didn't do at all.

Someone please explain to me how someone datamining 1 item on the PTR = WoW going F2P...

Please...

No one says WOW is going F2P tomorrow.

However, given that they are losing subs every year, isn't it quite reasonable to discuss the possibility of WOW going f2p? It is already F2P up to L20.

 

Nobody is saying that WoW will NEVER go F2P EVER.....but at the same time, nothing, not even the 1 datamined item, points to it happened within the next 5 years at the very least. WoW can stand to lose a million subs a year and still take another 6 years before it even becomes necessary. Im just pointing out how silly it is to read all of the comments here as if "its finally happening" ...you know......the post I quoted even said "im suprised it took so long"...as if its actually happening...so ya.....I'm sure you see why now I quoted what I quoted, and commented what I commented...im sure ud agree with me right?

They have a very high cost structure in WoW. Believe it or not, if their subs go down to 5 to 6 millions they will run a very high chance of either turning it f2p or shut down, with shut down (or indefinitely postponed  for enhancement like Diablo 2 or Titan) a bigger possibility.

According to

http://www.1up.com/news/world-warcraft-cost-blizzard-200m

as of 2008, it cost Blizzard a total of $200M in TOTAL upkeep over the course of 4 years. That means it cost Blizzard $50M a year to keep WoW running. This includes servers, customer service and so on.

Now, 50M a year translates to it costing $4,166,666 a month. In order to get that kind of revenue, WoW would need only 277,778 players in order for them to break slightly above even.

This didn't come from an official Blizzard site. It didn't even come from the site you put on the link. That site simply said "according to some person" I don't know. And it didn't list other expenses such as marketing and advertisement.

http://kotaku.com/5050300/how-much-has-wow-cost-blizzard-since-2004 stemmed from there.

Blizzard isn't going to disclose that on their site, however I've checked nearly half a dozen different websites and they are all repeating the same numbers. Also, it did list expenses. It stated that the $200M was ALL costs directly related to WoW over the course of 4 years, including everything from server upkeep to level designers to marketing and advertisement (not that there realistically was much advertisement)

All sources are repeating the same 200m figure. If you are able to find something different, by all means.

  SirFubar

Novice Member

Joined: 7/21/11
Posts: 403

7/08/13 5:16:51 PM#42
Originally posted by Jyiiga

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23226563

 

World of Warcraft maker Blizzard is to start experimenting with a system that lets players use real money to buy goods in the game.

Blizzard revealed the experiment in a message posted to the WoW chat forums.

Before now players have only been able to spend real money in out-of-game stores to buy pets and mounts for their characters.

The first item players can buy is a potion that boosts the experience points they gain from kills and loot.

The Enduring Elixir of Wisdom boosts experience rewards by 100% and is currently only available on the game's public test servers. To use it, players must be controlling a character of level 85 or above.

A Blizzard community manager called Zarhym said the elixir was one of the elements Blizzard was using to test in-game purchases. Other elements would appear on those test realms soon, they suggested.

 

----------------------

So if this works out for them... expect it to expand into other game aspects. 

Way to report a news and forgetting to most important part of it which is :  "We are currently exploring the possibility of adding a way for players in certain regions to make purchases directly within the game." Pretty sure this will only be for Asian market only.

  KBishop

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/13
Posts: 205

7/08/13 5:18:59 PM#43
Originally posted by Aysono

Thin air? What thin air? Didn't I tell you what Blizzard did to Diablo 2 and Titan? Again, you don't have to believe it but writing a post to just disagree other's post without reasoning is called trolling and I believe it is against the policy of these forums.

to be fair, Diablo 2 was a 1 time purchase which, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_PC_video_games only sold 4M copies over time. Even putting it at $60 purchase (it was $40 back in those days), that only amounts to $240,000,000. WoW EASILY pulls in more than that in 3 months even with the lower sub count. You can't readily compare the two

  Aysono

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/10
Posts: 164

7/08/13 5:21:56 PM#44
Originally posted by KBishop
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by KBishop
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Axehilt

WOW gradually going F2P?

Is this actually a surprise? If anything it's a surprise it took so long.

What has it got to do with Diablo 3? It's obviously going the way of F2P games (games which reported 200% or higher revenue increases) and doing something Diablo 3 didn't do at all.

Someone please explain to me how someone datamining 1 item on the PTR = WoW going F2P...

Please...

No one says WOW is going F2P tomorrow.

However, given that they are losing subs every year, isn't it quite reasonable to discuss the possibility of WOW going f2p? It is already F2P up to L20.

 

Nobody is saying that WoW will NEVER go F2P EVER.....but at the same time, nothing, not even the 1 datamined item, points to it happened within the next 5 years at the very least. WoW can stand to lose a million subs a year and still take another 6 years before it even becomes necessary. Im just pointing out how silly it is to read all of the comments here as if "its finally happening" ...you know......the post I quoted even said "im suprised it took so long"...as if its actually happening...so ya.....I'm sure you see why now I quoted what I quoted, and commented what I commented...im sure ud agree with me right?

They have a very high cost structure in WoW. Believe it or not, if their subs go down to 5 to 6 millions they will run a very high chance of either turning it f2p or shut down, with shut down (or indefinitely postponed  for enhancement like Diablo 2 or Titan) a bigger possibility.

According to

http://www.1up.com/news/world-warcraft-cost-blizzard-200m

as of 2008, it cost Blizzard a total of $200M in TOTAL upkeep over the course of 4 years. That means it cost Blizzard $50M a year to keep WoW running. This includes servers, customer service and so on.

Now, 50M a year translates to it costing $4,166,666 a month. In order to get that kind of revenue, WoW would need only 277,778 players in order for them to break slightly above even.

This didn't come from an official Blizzard site. It didn't even come from the site you put on the link. That site simply said "according to some person" I don't know. And it didn't list other expenses such as marketing and advertisement.

http://kotaku.com/5050300/how-much-has-wow-cost-blizzard-since-2004 stemmed from there.

Blizzard isn't going to disclose that on their site, however I've checked nearly half a dozen different websites and they are all repeating the same numbers. Also, it did list expenses. It stated that the $200M was ALL costs directly related to WoW over the course of 4 years, including everything from server upkeep to level designers to marketing and advertisement (not that there realistically was much advertisement)

All sources are repeating the same 200m figure. If you are able to find something different, by all means.

This is the internet. You just need to upload 1 piece of information, whether it is a file, a picture, a vid or whatever. It can go viral and be found in a thousand sites easily. Apparently they all came from this person nobody even know of.

Just use common sense on a company to company or game to game analysis. If it only took 277k players for WoW to break even it would take SWTOR far less to maintain. Why did EA turn it f2p citing drop in sharp drop in profits when they last report their sub at 1.3 million?

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1521

7/08/13 5:27:34 PM#45
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by KBishop
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by KBishop
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Axehilt

WOW gradually going F2P?

Is this actually a surprise? If anything it's a surprise it took so long.

What has it got to do with Diablo 3? It's obviously going the way of F2P games (games which reported 200% or higher revenue increases) and doing something Diablo 3 didn't do at all.

Someone please explain to me how someone datamining 1 item on the PTR = WoW going F2P...

Please...

No one says WOW is going F2P tomorrow.

However, given that they are losing subs every year, isn't it quite reasonable to discuss the possibility of WOW going f2p? It is already F2P up to L20.

 

Nobody is saying that WoW will NEVER go F2P EVER.....but at the same time, nothing, not even the 1 datamined item, points to it happened within the next 5 years at the very least. WoW can stand to lose a million subs a year and still take another 6 years before it even becomes necessary. Im just pointing out how silly it is to read all of the comments here as if "its finally happening" ...you know......the post I quoted even said "im suprised it took so long"...as if its actually happening...so ya.....I'm sure you see why now I quoted what I quoted, and commented what I commented...im sure ud agree with me right?

They have a very high cost structure in WoW. Believe it or not, if their subs go down to 5 to 6 millions they will run a very high chance of either turning it f2p or shut down, with shut down (or indefinitely postponed  for enhancement like Diablo 2 or Titan) a bigger possibility.

According to

http://www.1up.com/news/world-warcraft-cost-blizzard-200m

as of 2008, it cost Blizzard a total of $200M in TOTAL upkeep over the course of 4 years. That means it cost Blizzard $50M a year to keep WoW running. This includes servers, customer service and so on.

Now, 50M a year translates to it costing $4,166,666 a month. In order to get that kind of revenue, WoW would need only 277,778 players in order for them to break slightly above even.

This didn't come from an official Blizzard site. It didn't even come from the site you put on the link. That site simply said "according to some person" I don't know. And it didn't list other expenses such as marketing and advertisement.

http://kotaku.com/5050300/how-much-has-wow-cost-blizzard-since-2004 stemmed from there.

Blizzard isn't going to disclose that on their site, however I've checked nearly half a dozen different websites and they are all repeating the same numbers. Also, it did list expenses. It stated that the $200M was ALL costs directly related to WoW over the course of 4 years, including everything from server upkeep to level designers to marketing and advertisement (not that there realistically was much advertisement)

All sources are repeating the same 200m figure. If you are able to find something different, by all means.

This is the internet. You just need to upload 1 piece of information, whether it is a file, a picture, a vid or whatever. It can go viral and be found in a thousand sites easily. Apparently they all came from this person nobody even know of.

Just use common sense on a company to company or game to game analysis. If it only took 277k players for WoW to break even it would take SWTOR far less to maintain. Why did EA turn it f2p citing drop in sharp drop in profits when they last report their sub at 1.3 million?

IP and development costs, for starters...And you know, you prob shouldnt tell ppl to use common sense, then go ahead and compare a game running with an IP owned by blizz...to one that has to pay IP fees as high as Star Wars...

And for the record, if WoW got as low as SWTOR did, it would prob go F2P by that time as well...none of that lends credit to your point of WoW shutting down/F2P with 5 mil subs though...

  Aysono

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/10
Posts: 164

7/08/13 5:28:54 PM#46
Originally posted by KBishop
Originally posted by Aysono

Thin air? What thin air? Didn't I tell you what Blizzard did to Diablo 2 and Titan? Again, you don't have to believe it but writing a post to just disagree other's post without reasoning is called trolling and I believe it is against the policy of these forums.

to be fair, Diablo 2 was a 1 time purchase which, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_PC_video_games only sold 4M copies over time. Even putting it at $60 purchase (it was $40 back in those days), that only amounts to $240,000,000. WoW EASILY pulls in more than that in 3 months even with the lower sub count. You can't readily compare the two

You also need to take the time, market environment and the company's status into consideration. At the time when D2 was paused $240 million was a lot and Blizzard didn't have anything else to raise money. If you look at D3 today, it can outgrow WoW with many ways to monetize it, such as RMAH, cash shop and whatever some creative people can think of.

  Aysono

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/10
Posts: 164

7/08/13 5:34:05 PM#47
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by KBishop
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by KBishop
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Axehilt

WOW gradually going F2P?

Is this actually a surprise? If anything it's a surprise it took so long.

What has it got to do with Diablo 3? It's obviously going the way of F2P games (games which reported 200% or higher revenue increases) and doing something Diablo 3 didn't do at all.

Someone please explain to me how someone datamining 1 item on the PTR = WoW going F2P...

Please...

No one says WOW is going F2P tomorrow.

However, given that they are losing subs every year, isn't it quite reasonable to discuss the possibility of WOW going f2p? It is already F2P up to L20.

 

Nobody is saying that WoW will NEVER go F2P EVER.....but at the same time, nothing, not even the 1 datamined item, points to it happened within the next 5 years at the very least. WoW can stand to lose a million subs a year and still take another 6 years before it even becomes necessary. Im just pointing out how silly it is to read all of the comments here as if "its finally happening" ...you know......the post I quoted even said "im suprised it took so long"...as if its actually happening...so ya.....I'm sure you see why now I quoted what I quoted, and commented what I commented...im sure ud agree with me right?

They have a very high cost structure in WoW. Believe it or not, if their subs go down to 5 to 6 millions they will run a very high chance of either turning it f2p or shut down, with shut down (or indefinitely postponed  for enhancement like Diablo 2 or Titan) a bigger possibility.

According to

http://www.1up.com/news/world-warcraft-cost-blizzard-200m

as of 2008, it cost Blizzard a total of $200M in TOTAL upkeep over the course of 4 years. That means it cost Blizzard $50M a year to keep WoW running. This includes servers, customer service and so on.

Now, 50M a year translates to it costing $4,166,666 a month. In order to get that kind of revenue, WoW would need only 277,778 players in order for them to break slightly above even.

This didn't come from an official Blizzard site. It didn't even come from the site you put on the link. That site simply said "according to some person" I don't know. And it didn't list other expenses such as marketing and advertisement.

http://kotaku.com/5050300/how-much-has-wow-cost-blizzard-since-2004 stemmed from there.

Blizzard isn't going to disclose that on their site, however I've checked nearly half a dozen different websites and they are all repeating the same numbers. Also, it did list expenses. It stated that the $200M was ALL costs directly related to WoW over the course of 4 years, including everything from server upkeep to level designers to marketing and advertisement (not that there realistically was much advertisement)

All sources are repeating the same 200m figure. If you are able to find something different, by all means.

This is the internet. You just need to upload 1 piece of information, whether it is a file, a picture, a vid or whatever. It can go viral and be found in a thousand sites easily. Apparently they all came from this person nobody even know of.

Just use common sense on a company to company or game to game analysis. If it only took 277k players for WoW to break even it would take SWTOR far less to maintain. Why did EA turn it f2p citing drop in sharp drop in profits when they last report their sub at 1.3 million?

IP and development costs, for starters...And you know, you prob shouldnt tell ppl to use common sense, then go ahead and compare a game running with an IP owned by blizz...to one that has to pay IP fees as high as Star Wars...

And for the record, if WoW got as low as SWTOR did, it would prob go F2P by that time as well...none of that lends credit to your point of WoW shutting down/F2P with 5 mil subs though...

Yes, IP costs some money but said even with 500k sub they would make a profit. So regardless of the how much IP costs they turned f2p when they still have the money of 800k sub to fill their wallet.

I also want to add in other games like Aion. NCSOFT don't have to pay royalty for their own IP and Aion still turned f2p and now, despite of how good many people said of GW2, as of last financial quarter, Aion took in 80% of what GW2 did. Get the picture about the powers and temptation of f2p?

  KBishop

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/13
Posts: 205

7/08/13 5:34:58 PM#48
Originally posted by Aysono

This is the internet. You just need to upload 1 piece of information, whether it is a file, a picture, a vid or whatever. It can go viral and be found in a thousand sites easily. Apparently they all came from this person nobody even know of.

Just use common sense on a company to company or game to game analysis. If it only took 277k players for WoW to break even it would take SWTOR far less to maintain. Why did EA turn it f2p citing drop in sharp drop in profits when they last report their sub at 1.3 million?

http://www.theverge.com/2012/11/15/3652132/star-wars-old-republic-free-play-level-50

"The choice to go free-to-play is guaranteed to get more casual players on board, and EA has said it will continue to break even as long as subscriber numbers stay over 500,000."

doesn't sound too far out of left field.

  KBishop

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/13
Posts: 205

7/08/13 5:36:45 PM#49
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by KBishop
Originally posted by Aysono

Thin air? What thin air? Didn't I tell you what Blizzard did to Diablo 2 and Titan? Again, you don't have to believe it but writing a post to just disagree other's post without reasoning is called trolling and I believe it is against the policy of these forums.

to be fair, Diablo 2 was a 1 time purchase which, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_PC_video_games only sold 4M copies over time. Even putting it at $60 purchase (it was $40 back in those days), that only amounts to $240,000,000. WoW EASILY pulls in more than that in 3 months even with the lower sub count. You can't readily compare the two

You also need to take the time, market environment and the company's status into consideration. At the time when D2 was paused $240 million was a lot and Blizzard didn't have anything else to raise money. If you look at D3 today, it can outgrow WoW with many ways to monetize it, such as RMAH, cash shop and whatever some creative people can think of.

just an FYI, that $240M wasn't up front. Thats why I said OVER TIME. That $240,000,000 is over the course of 13 years

  Aysono

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/10
Posts: 164

7/08/13 5:37:29 PM#50
Originally posted by KBishop
Originally posted by Aysono

This is the internet. You just need to upload 1 piece of information, whether it is a file, a picture, a vid or whatever. It can go viral and be found in a thousand sites easily. Apparently they all came from this person nobody even know of.

Just use common sense on a company to company or game to game analysis. If it only took 277k players for WoW to break even it would take SWTOR far less to maintain. Why did EA turn it f2p citing drop in sharp drop in profits when they last report their sub at 1.3 million?

http://www.theverge.com/2012/11/15/3652132/star-wars-old-republic-free-play-level-50

"The choice to go free-to-play is guaranteed to get more casual players on board, and EA has said it will continue to break even as long as subscriber numbers stay over 500,000."

doesn't sound too far out of left field.

What's your point? Is 1.3 million more than 2.5 times of 500k?

  zymurgeist

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/24/04
Posts: 5186

7/08/13 5:38:51 PM#51
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Axehilt

WOW gradually going F2P?

Is this actually a surprise? If anything it's a surprise it took so long.

What has it got to do with Diablo 3? It's obviously going the way of F2P games (games which reported 200% or higher revenue increases) and doing something Diablo 3 didn't do at all.

Someone please explain to me how someone datamining 1 item on the PTR = WoW going F2P...

Please...

No one says WOW is going F2P tomorrow.

However, given that they are losing subs every year, isn't it quite reasonable to discuss the possibility of WOW going f2p? It is already F2P up to L20.

 

Nobody is saying that WoW will NEVER go F2P EVER.....but at the same time, nothing, not even the 1 datamined item, points to it happened within the next 5 years at the very least. WoW can stand to lose a million subs a year and still take another 6 years before it even becomes necessary. Im just pointing out how silly it is to read all of the comments here as if "its finally happening" ...you know......the post I quoted even said "im suprised it took so long"...as if its actually happening...so ya.....I'm sure you see why now I quoted what I quoted, and commented what I commented...im sure ud agree with me right?

They have a very high cost structure in WoW. Believe it or not, if their subs go down to 5 to 6 millions they will run a very high chance of either turning it f2p or shut down, with shut down (or indefinitely postponed like Diablo or Titan) a bigger possibility.

That is completely incorrect. Please dont blantantly make things up, it doesnt add anything to the discussion...believe it or not...

I am not asking anybody to believe. Blizzard won't tie up their resources and monies and let that game go down to the sub level of UO or DAoC. They pulled the plug on Diablo 2 for 10 years when they didn't even have other viable products. Now, they have many huge money makers and WoW sits at the end of the list in term of their financial statement.

They never pulled the plug on Diablo 2. Or Diablo 1 for that matter. The servers are still up. I's true they have stopped selling Diablo 1 disks but you can still buy Diablo 2 both digital and box versions. Hell the servers for Warcraft 2 are still up. Zero chance the WoW servers will go down in the next ten years.

"Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  Aysono

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/10
Posts: 164

7/08/13 5:43:03 PM#52
Originally posted by KBishop
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by KBishop
Originally posted by Aysono

Thin air? What thin air? Didn't I tell you what Blizzard did to Diablo 2 and Titan? Again, you don't have to believe it but writing a post to just disagree other's post without reasoning is called trolling and I believe it is against the policy of these forums.

to be fair, Diablo 2 was a 1 time purchase which, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_PC_video_games only sold 4M copies over time. Even putting it at $60 purchase (it was $40 back in those days), that only amounts to $240,000,000. WoW EASILY pulls in more than that in 3 months even with the lower sub count. You can't readily compare the two

You also need to take the time, market environment and the company's status into consideration. At the time when D2 was paused $240 million was a lot and Blizzard didn't have anything else to raise money. If you look at D3 today, it can outgrow WoW with many ways to monetize it, such as RMAH, cash shop and whatever some creative people can think of.

just an FYI, that $240M wasn't up front. Thats why I said OVER TIME. That $240,000,000 is over the course of 13 years

How much would the buying powers of  $240 million 10-20 years ago nowadays? And again, how much were Blizzard making besides D2 at the time they paused it?

 

For every business, there is an opportunity cost. If a company believe they can find better opportunities with their seed money they will plant it elsewhere? Wasn't that how WoW replaced D2? Isn't it what you see going with D3, Skylander and other hugely successful cash cows that pushed WoW to the last place and become the burden of Blizzard in Wall Street analysts' reports?

  KBishop

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/13
Posts: 205

7/08/13 5:44:01 PM#53
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by KBishop
Originally posted by Aysono

This is the internet. You just need to upload 1 piece of information, whether it is a file, a picture, a vid or whatever. It can go viral and be found in a thousand sites easily. Apparently they all came from this person nobody even know of.

Just use common sense on a company to company or game to game analysis. If it only took 277k players for WoW to break even it would take SWTOR far less to maintain. Why did EA turn it f2p citing drop in sharp drop in profits when they last report their sub at 1.3 million?

http://www.theverge.com/2012/11/15/3652132/star-wars-old-republic-free-play-level-50

"The choice to go free-to-play is guaranteed to get more casual players on board, and EA has said it will continue to break even as long as subscriber numbers stay over 500,000."

doesn't sound too far out of left field.

What's your point? Is 1.3 million more than 2.5 times of 500k?

lol.

you: If it only took 277k players for WoW to break even it would take SWTOR far less to maintain.

quote: The choice to go free-to-play is guaranteed to get more casual players on board, and EA has said it will continue to break even as long as subscriber numbers stay over 500,000.

What does this all mean? EA is saying as long as they are pulling 500,000 subscribers to break even with a near virtually identical subscriber fee. That means that WoW's requirement of 277k to break even doesn't seem that far off, and is completely in line to the original point I was making. That point is that as long as they have 277,778 subs, theoretically they are making a tiny profit and anything else is bonus.

As to WHY they are going F2P, its simple. They are gambling on people spending optional money. If sub fee's offer nice bonuses, those who were paying it now will almost assuredly keep paying it anyway. This means they aren't likely to lose money. The KEY is, however, that new people will come on board to it now that its F2P. This means theres a new group of people who either MIGHT opt to pay the fee for the additional goodies, or might spend it on shops which is additional revenue for EA.

 

  Aysono

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/10
Posts: 164

7/08/13 5:45:47 PM#54
Originally posted by zymurgeist
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Axehilt

WOW gradually going F2P?

Is this actually a surprise? If anything it's a surprise it took so long.

What has it got to do with Diablo 3? It's obviously going the way of F2P games (games which reported 200% or higher revenue increases) and doing something Diablo 3 didn't do at all.

Someone please explain to me how someone datamining 1 item on the PTR = WoW going F2P...

Please...

No one says WOW is going F2P tomorrow.

However, given that they are losing subs every year, isn't it quite reasonable to discuss the possibility of WOW going f2p? It is already F2P up to L20.

 

Nobody is saying that WoW will NEVER go F2P EVER.....but at the same time, nothing, not even the 1 datamined item, points to it happened within the next 5 years at the very least. WoW can stand to lose a million subs a year and still take another 6 years before it even becomes necessary. Im just pointing out how silly it is to read all of the comments here as if "its finally happening" ...you know......the post I quoted even said "im suprised it took so long"...as if its actually happening...so ya.....I'm sure you see why now I quoted what I quoted, and commented what I commented...im sure ud agree with me right?

They have a very high cost structure in WoW. Believe it or not, if their subs go down to 5 to 6 millions they will run a very high chance of either turning it f2p or shut down, with shut down (or indefinitely postponed like Diablo or Titan) a bigger possibility.

That is completely incorrect. Please dont blantantly make things up, it doesnt add anything to the discussion...believe it or not...

I am not asking anybody to believe. Blizzard won't tie up their resources and monies and let that game go down to the sub level of UO or DAoC. They pulled the plug on Diablo 2 for 10 years when they didn't even have other viable products. Now, they have many huge money makers and WoW sits at the end of the list in term of their financial statement.

They never pulled the plug on Diablo 2. Or Diablo 1 for that matter. The servers are still up. I's true they have stopped selling Diablo 1 disks but you can still buy Diablo 2 both digital and box versions. Hell the servers for Warcraft 2 are still up. Zero chance the WoW servers will go down in the next ten years.

Yes you are right. That's why I said EITHER shut down or "paused" like D2. They might not have to totally nuke WoW out of the surface of this world.

  KBishop

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/13
Posts: 205

7/08/13 5:46:35 PM#55
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by KBishop
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by KBishop
Originally posted by Aysono

Thin air? What thin air? Didn't I tell you what Blizzard did to Diablo 2 and Titan? Again, you don't have to believe it but writing a post to just disagree other's post without reasoning is called trolling and I believe it is against the policy of these forums.

to be fair, Diablo 2 was a 1 time purchase which, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_PC_video_games only sold 4M copies over time. Even putting it at $60 purchase (it was $40 back in those days), that only amounts to $240,000,000. WoW EASILY pulls in more than that in 3 months even with the lower sub count. You can't readily compare the two

You also need to take the time, market environment and the company's status into consideration. At the time when D2 was paused $240 million was a lot and Blizzard didn't have anything else to raise money. If you look at D3 today, it can outgrow WoW with many ways to monetize it, such as RMAH, cash shop and whatever some creative people can think of.

just an FYI, that $240M wasn't up front. Thats why I said OVER TIME. That $240,000,000 is over the course of 13 years

How much would the buying powers of  $240 million 10-20 years ago nowadays? And again, how much were Blizzard making besides D2 at the time they paused it?

 

For every business, there is an opportunity cost. If a company believe they can find better opportunities with their seed money they will plant it elsewhere? Wasn't that how WoW replaced D2? Isn't it what you see going with D3, Skylander and other hugely successful cash cows that pushed WoW to the last place and become the burden of Blizzard in Wall Street analysts' reports?

lets leave it at 13 years. this game wasn't even in D1 20 years ago.

Considering that we weren't in a colossal debt 13 years ago? I'd say the buying power was actually LESS then than it is now

edit: and WoW never replaced D2. Diablo was always Blizzards weakest IP behind starcraft and warcraft

  Aysono

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/10
Posts: 164

7/08/13 5:53:48 PM#56
Originally posted by KBishop
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by KBishop
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by KBishop
Originally posted by Aysono

Thin air? What thin air? Didn't I tell you what Blizzard did to Diablo 2 and Titan? Again, you don't have to believe it but writing a post to just disagree other's post without reasoning is called trolling and I believe it is against the policy of these forums.

to be fair, Diablo 2 was a 1 time purchase which, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_PC_video_games only sold 4M copies over time. Even putting it at $60 purchase (it was $40 back in those days), that only amounts to $240,000,000. WoW EASILY pulls in more than that in 3 months even with the lower sub count. You can't readily compare the two

You also need to take the time, market environment and the company's status into consideration. At the time when D2 was paused $240 million was a lot and Blizzard didn't have anything else to raise money. If you look at D3 today, it can outgrow WoW with many ways to monetize it, such as RMAH, cash shop and whatever some creative people can think of.

just an FYI, that $240M wasn't up front. Thats why I said OVER TIME. That $240,000,000 is over the course of 13 years

How much would the buying powers of  $240 million 10-20 years ago nowadays? And again, how much were Blizzard making besides D2 at the time they paused it?

 

For every business, there is an opportunity cost. If a company believe they can find better opportunities with their seed money they will plant it elsewhere? Wasn't that how WoW replaced D2? Isn't it what you see going with D3, Skylander and other hugely successful cash cows that pushed WoW to the last place and become the burden of Blizzard in Wall Street analysts' reports?

lets leave it at 13 years. this game wasn't even in D1 20 years ago.

Considering that we weren't in a colossal debt 13 years ago? I'd say the buying power was actually LESS then than it is now

edit: and WoW never replaced D2. Diablo was always Blizzards weakest IP behind starcraft and warcraft

LOL. The Nation needs to hire you as their financial minister then. Without debt? Any country can do well without debt and don't forget consumers came from all over the world, not only THIS Nation.

Diablo WAS the weakest IP behind WoW. But it was then. It is the other way now.

  KBishop

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/13
Posts: 205

7/08/13 5:58:32 PM#57
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by KBishop
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by KBishop
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by KBishop
Originally posted by Aysono

Thin air? What thin air? Didn't I tell you what Blizzard did to Diablo 2 and Titan? Again, you don't have to believe it but writing a post to just disagree other's post without reasoning is called trolling and I believe it is against the policy of these forums.

to be fair, Diablo 2 was a 1 time purchase which, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_PC_video_games only sold 4M copies over time. Even putting it at $60 purchase (it was $40 back in those days), that only amounts to $240,000,000. WoW EASILY pulls in more than that in 3 months even with the lower sub count. You can't readily compare the two

You also need to take the time, market environment and the company's status into consideration. At the time when D2 was paused $240 million was a lot and Blizzard didn't have anything else to raise money. If you look at D3 today, it can outgrow WoW with many ways to monetize it, such as RMAH, cash shop and whatever some creative people can think of.

just an FYI, that $240M wasn't up front. Thats why I said OVER TIME. That $240,000,000 is over the course of 13 years

How much would the buying powers of  $240 million 10-20 years ago nowadays? And again, how much were Blizzard making besides D2 at the time they paused it?

 

For every business, there is an opportunity cost. If a company believe they can find better opportunities with their seed money they will plant it elsewhere? Wasn't that how WoW replaced D2? Isn't it what you see going with D3, Skylander and other hugely successful cash cows that pushed WoW to the last place and become the burden of Blizzard in Wall Street analysts' reports?

lets leave it at 13 years. this game wasn't even in D1 20 years ago.

Considering that we weren't in a colossal debt 13 years ago? I'd say the buying power was actually LESS then than it is now

edit: and WoW never replaced D2. Diablo was always Blizzards weakest IP behind starcraft and warcraft

LOL. The Nation needs to hire you as their financial minister then. Without debt? Any country can do well without debt and don't forget consumers came from all over the world, not only THIS Nation.

Diablo WAS the weakest IP behind WoW. But it was then. It is the other way now.

ok. I don't necessarily know where you've been for the last 15 years, but A) we were in a surplus when Clinton left (as in we had no national debt) and B) we were in a trillion dollar debt when Bush left (which also happened to be our nations greatest financial collapse after the great depression.

No, Diablo is STILL Blizzards weakest IP. Even with the sales figures behind D3 and the declining subs in WoW. Although, to be fair, Diablo was surprisingly a stronger IP than the WC rts series.

 

Source: http://www.statisticbrain.com/blizzard-entertainment-statistics/

  zymurgeist

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/24/04
Posts: 5186

7/08/13 6:00:35 PM#58
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by zymurgeist
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Axehilt

WOW gradually going F2P?

Is this actually a surprise? If anything it's a surprise it took so long.

What has it got to do with Diablo 3? It's obviously going the way of F2P games (games which reported 200% or higher revenue increases) and doing something Diablo 3 didn't do at all.

Someone please explain to me how someone datamining 1 item on the PTR = WoW going F2P...

Please...

No one says WOW is going F2P tomorrow.

However, given that they are losing subs every year, isn't it quite reasonable to discuss the possibility of WOW going f2p? It is already F2P up to L20.

 

Nobody is saying that WoW will NEVER go F2P EVER.....but at the same time, nothing, not even the 1 datamined item, points to it happened within the next 5 years at the very least. WoW can stand to lose a million subs a year and still take another 6 years before it even becomes necessary. Im just pointing out how silly it is to read all of the comments here as if "its finally happening" ...you know......the post I quoted even said "im suprised it took so long"...as if its actually happening...so ya.....I'm sure you see why now I quoted what I quoted, and commented what I commented...im sure ud agree with me right?

They have a very high cost structure in WoW. Believe it or not, if their subs go down to 5 to 6 millions they will run a very high chance of either turning it f2p or shut down, with shut down (or indefinitely postponed like Diablo or Titan) a bigger possibility.

That is completely incorrect. Please dont blantantly make things up, it doesnt add anything to the discussion...believe it or not...

I am not asking anybody to believe. Blizzard won't tie up their resources and monies and let that game go down to the sub level of UO or DAoC. They pulled the plug on Diablo 2 for 10 years when they didn't even have other viable products. Now, they have many huge money makers and WoW sits at the end of the list in term of their financial statement.

They never pulled the plug on Diablo 2. Or Diablo 1 for that matter. The servers are still up. I's true they have stopped selling Diablo 1 disks but you can still buy Diablo 2 both digital and box versions. Hell the servers for Warcraft 2 are still up. Zero chance the WoW servers will go down in the next ten years.

Yes you are right. That's why I said EITHER shut down or "paused" like D2. They might not have to totally nuke WoW out of the surface of this world.

They never "paused" D2 either. They finished it, released an expansion a year later, and immediately went into production on D3. D3 was put on hold to concentrate resources on WoW. The last D2 patch was Patch 1.13d, released 27 October 2011. I don't think you realize how big Blizzard's capitalization is. It's a huge concentration of wealth for a company it's size.

"Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  Aysono

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/10
Posts: 164

7/08/13 6:01:58 PM#59
Originally posted by KBishop
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by KBishop
Originally posted by Aysono

This is the internet. You just need to upload 1 piece of information, whether it is a file, a picture, a vid or whatever. It can go viral and be found in a thousand sites easily. Apparently they all came from this person nobody even know of.

Just use common sense on a company to company or game to game analysis. If it only took 277k players for WoW to break even it would take SWTOR far less to maintain. Why did EA turn it f2p citing drop in sharp drop in profits when they last report their sub at 1.3 million?

http://www.theverge.com/2012/11/15/3652132/star-wars-old-republic-free-play-level-50

"The choice to go free-to-play is guaranteed to get more casual players on board, and EA has said it will continue to break even as long as subscriber numbers stay over 500,000."

doesn't sound too far out of left field.

What's your point? Is 1.3 million more than 2.5 times of 500k?

lol.

you: If it only took 277k players for WoW to break even it would take SWTOR far less to maintain.

quote: The choice to go free-to-play is guaranteed to get more casual players on board, and EA has said it will continue to break even as long as subscriber numbers stay over 500,000.

What does this all mean? EA is saying as long as they are pulling 500,000 subscribers to break even with a near virtually identical subscriber fee. That means that WoW's requirement of 277k to break even doesn't seem that far off, and is completely in line to the original point I was making. That point is that as long as they have 277,778 subs, theoretically they are making a tiny profit and anything else is bonus.

As to WHY they are going F2P, its simple. They are gambling on people spending optional money. If sub fee's offer nice bonuses, those who were paying it now will almost assuredly keep paying it anyway. This means they aren't likely to lose money. The KEY is, however, that new people will come on board to it now that its F2P. This means theres a new group of people who either MIGHT opt to pay the fee for the additional goodies, or might spend it on shops which is additional revenue for EA.

 

Let just kick that number 277,778 subs out of the picture since it can't never be verified.

 

OK. let's also assume WoW will not be shut down just to stop this argument until more official information is released.

 

Now, will they go f2p after seeing results from SWTOR, Aion and other bigger competitors? So by your reasoning, since EA could survive without turing f2p but turned f2p for more profits anyway why should WoW also turn f2p to get more profits?

  Aysono

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/10
Posts: 164

7/08/13 6:03:38 PM#60
Originally posted by zymurgeist
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by zymurgeist
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Axehilt

WOW gradually going F2P?

Is this actually a surprise? If anything it's a surprise it took so long.

What has it got to do with Diablo 3? It's obviously going the way of F2P games (games which reported 200% or higher revenue increases) and doing something Diablo 3 didn't do at all.

Someone please explain to me how someone datamining 1 item on the PTR = WoW going F2P...

Please...

No one says WOW is going F2P tomorrow.

However, given that they are losing subs every year, isn't it quite reasonable to discuss the possibility of WOW going f2p? It is already F2P up to L20.

 

Nobody is saying that WoW will NEVER go F2P EVER.....but at the same time, nothing, not even the 1 datamined item, points to it happened within the next 5 years at the very least. WoW can stand to lose a million subs a year and still take another 6 years before it even becomes necessary. Im just pointing out how silly it is to read all of the comments here as if "its finally happening" ...you know......the post I quoted even said "im suprised it took so long"...as if its actually happening...so ya.....I'm sure you see why now I quoted what I quoted, and commented what I commented...im sure ud agree with me right?

They have a very high cost structure in WoW. Believe it or not, if their subs go down to 5 to 6 millions they will run a very high chance of either turning it f2p or shut down, with shut down (or indefinitely postponed like Diablo or Titan) a bigger possibility.

That is completely incorrect. Please dont blantantly make things up, it doesnt add anything to the discussion...believe it or not...

I am not asking anybody to believe. Blizzard won't tie up their resources and monies and let that game go down to the sub level of UO or DAoC. They pulled the plug on Diablo 2 for 10 years when they didn't even have other viable products. Now, they have many huge money makers and WoW sits at the end of the list in term of their financial statement.

They never pulled the plug on Diablo 2. Or Diablo 1 for that matter. The servers are still up. I's true they have stopped selling Diablo 1 disks but you can still buy Diablo 2 both digital and box versions. Hell the servers for Warcraft 2 are still up. Zero chance the WoW servers will go down in the next ten years.

Yes you are right. That's why I said EITHER shut down or "paused" like D2. They might not have to totally nuke WoW out of the surface of this world.

They never "paused" D2 either. They finished it, released an expansion a year later, and immediately went into production on D3. D3 was put on hold to concentrate resources on WoW. The last D2 patch was Patch 1.13d, released 27 October 2011. I don't think you realize how big Blizzard's capitalization is. It's a huge concentration of wealth for a company it's size.

Notice I put "paused" in quotation? If I changed it to "put in back burner" will that make your happier? Either way, it doesn't have much bearing to the argument.

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