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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » The World Needs EverQuest Next

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81 posts found
  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 10803

7/08/13 2:44:38 PM#21
Originally posted by CrazKanuk

As far as the other arguments related to these games NOT being DEVELOPED by Sony, the argument amounts to a hill of beans because you're basically talking about the difference between funnelling money into a third party, or funnelling money into your own Development firm. I can tell you with a great deal of certainty that the people handling the money will be treating the people developing the game no differently than they would a third party.

theres a world of difference between

having your own development shop vs throwing money at a unrelated third party

- the difference is devs having business experience w both the company and software tools

 

SOE developers from both EQ and EQ2 teams have been transitioned to EQN team

  CrazKanuk

Elite Member

Joined: 10/06/09
Posts: 557

7/08/13 2:50:10 PM#22
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by CrazKanuk

OP makes GREAT points. I would LOVE to see this game released as advertised. However! There are a couple really, REALLY good reasons to cringe. 

 

1) Wizardry Online

2) Dragon's Prophet

 

Both games had such potential. I mean SOE basically took the Wizardry franchise and added in some permadeath and how can you mess it up? Well, download it. 

 

Secondly, you've got Dragon's Prophet! Ummmmm, let's see, it's freakin' Runewalker. Oh, oh, yeah and there are freakin' DRAGONS! How can you possibly mess that up? Well.... download it. 

 

Sony didn't make Wizardry they published it.

The same thing with Dragon's Prophet.

So you are essentially "that guy" who spreads misinformation, you say this in your guild chat, some other person who can't think for themselves (and why do we have so many of these people?) takes what you say for gospel and then continues the trend.

This is why the internet is such a cesspool.

 

If you want to lambaste SOE for anthing you should do so for things they actually have done.

They didn't make these games and they didn't screw them up.

 

I understand they didn't make them, I've said that before, but are you saying they're off the hook because they didn't make it? You're basically saying that it's ok to put your name on a piece of crap, as long as you didn't make it. Sorry, yes, as Publisher, SOE SHOULD be held accountable for crap games, they're the ones taking your money, not someone else. 

 

Without completely derailing the conversation entirely, are you saying that SOE shouldn't be responsible for games that they publish? Personally, if I put money into founding a hunk of dung that SOE published, I would go back to them to get my money back. So what's the difference? I'm really sorry, but if you publish crap then you shouldn't get a free pass just because you didn't make the thing in-house. 

Crazkanuk

----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------

  IridescentOrk

Novice Member

Joined: 5/27/13
Posts: 160

7/08/13 2:59:22 PM#23
Well, the game may turn out the WoW 2.0 I have been waiting for. If not this game, I guess I will have to wait for "Titan". Need official info about EQN though. It's all about gameplay. The "sandbox" thing doesn't cut it at this point.

gameplay > graphics

  CrazKanuk

Elite Member

Joined: 10/06/09
Posts: 557

7/08/13 2:59:31 PM#24
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by CrazKanuk

As far as the other arguments related to these games NOT being DEVELOPED by Sony, the argument amounts to a hill of beans because you're basically talking about the difference between funnelling money into a third party, or funnelling money into your own Development firm. I can tell you with a great deal of certainty that the people handling the money will be treating the people developing the game no differently than they would a third party.

theres a world of difference between

having your own development shop vs throwing money at a unrelated third party

- the difference is devs having business experience w both the company and software tools

 

SOE developers from both EQ and EQ2 teams have been transitioned to EQN team

 

+1 on the EQ staff being moved over to EQN, yes. 

 

However, if you believe that EQN has an unlimited budget then you're crazy. Basically that's all I'm saying, EQN has a budget and to believe that they will re-invent an entire genre with one fell swoop is unreasonable. 

 

Let me just set things straight here. I'm not saying I think that EQN will be miserable, but I am saying that the final product will not live up to the hype. Reason being that money is money and I don't see EQN having a $300 million dollar budget. But, if I'm proved wrong then GREAT! All the better, as long as I'm not barred from playing it :) 

Crazkanuk

----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 16604

7/08/13 3:07:12 PM#25
Originally posted by CrazKanuk
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by CrazKanuk

OP makes GREAT points. I would LOVE to see this game released as advertised. However! There are a couple really, REALLY good reasons to cringe. 

 

1) Wizardry Online

2) Dragon's Prophet

 

Both games had such potential. I mean SOE basically took the Wizardry franchise and added in some permadeath and how can you mess it up? Well, download it. 

 

Secondly, you've got Dragon's Prophet! Ummmmm, let's see, it's freakin' Runewalker. Oh, oh, yeah and there are freakin' DRAGONS! How can you possibly mess that up? Well.... download it. 

 

Sony didn't make Wizardry they published it.

The same thing with Dragon's Prophet.

So you are essentially "that guy" who spreads misinformation, you say this in your guild chat, some other person who can't think for themselves (and why do we have so many of these people?) takes what you say for gospel and then continues the trend.

This is why the internet is such a cesspool.

 

If you want to lambaste SOE for anthing you should do so for things they actually have done.

They didn't make these games and they didn't screw them up.

 

I understand they didn't make them, I've said that before, but are you saying they're off the hook because they didn't make it? You're basically saying that it's ok to put your name on a piece of crap, as long as you didn't make it. Sorry, yes, as Publisher, SOE SHOULD be held accountable for crap games, they're the ones taking your money, not someone else. 

 

Without completely derailing the conversation entirely, are you saying that SOE shouldn't be responsible for games that they publish? Personally, if I put money into founding a hunk of dung that SOE published, I would go back to them to get my money back. So what's the difference? I'm really sorry, but if you publish crap then you shouldn't get a free pass just because you didn't make the thing in-house. 

Well, first of all I apologize for my second paragraph. I was in a mood and had edited it as it was uncalled for. However you managed to grab that before I edited it so "I'm sorry".

More to the point...

Sony runs itself like "A big business". They essentially look for as many ways to make money as possible. This makes sense as they are a publicly traded company and they are obliged to maximize their returns lest the stockholders get mad. It's as if you had some stocks or mutual funds and you found out that the people managing them (company or fund) pretty much took your money and then sat on their "ass" and didn't do anything to actually make your investment worthwhile.

So we don't know the publishing deal or what they got out of it. I don't think Sony runs itself on the "hey, let's only publish things that are awesome!" platform.

They basically publish things and if the deal is right and it fits with their business strategy they will publish it. It's possible that they are getting more than just money when all is said and done. Maybe they get the IP's if they don't make their money back or maybe their investment is so small for whatever they will get that they just did the "least they could do" to make x dollars.

Look I played Wizardry for all of 5 minutes and it  felt like absolute crap. It felt as cheap as a game could get. But I don't fault them for accepting a deal for publishing it as I'm sure they had a great reason for doing so. Heck, it could even be a "write off".

I worked for a company for several years and it didn't matter that they always lost money. apparently the owners (a larger company) used it to their advantage.

So we don't know the reasons by Sony published them. But they do make money and I suspect they had their reasons. I'll just blame the actual developers for such a crappy job.

  nerovipus32

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2643

7/08/13 3:08:06 PM#26
No matter what SOE game i play i always get that old school feeling from their games, plus their communities are really good. EQ2 has by far the best community in the genre.
  CrazKanuk

Elite Member

Joined: 10/06/09
Posts: 557

7/08/13 3:21:17 PM#27
Originally posted by Sovrath
So we don't know the reasons by Sony published them. But they do make money and I suspect they had their reasons. I'll just blame the actual developers for such a crappy job.

 

For sure they make money, that's why we get these dev shops churning out garbage. 

 

I'll wait and see what happens with EQN. I really do hope I'm wrong. I mean I should be wrong, EQ is like their franchise MMO.

 

SOE Live should tell more I guess. 

Crazkanuk

----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------

  Daxamar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 428

7/08/13 3:31:48 PM#28

Im taking a wait and see attitude with EQNext. SOE has put out some garbage in the past and I really do not like what they have done with some games.

There not the Devs, but they do publish these games. So some responsibility falls on them. Too much hype for so little info also has me a little concerened.

  Arclan

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/29/07
Posts: 1174

Ideas are worthless. The only currency that holds any weight is the ability and drive to execute.

7/08/13 3:37:47 PM#29


Originally posted by Gallus85

Originally posted by Arclan OP makes excellent points. The WoW masses must be ready for a new challenge by now. Massive opportunity for $OE if they play their cards right which, history has shown, they don't. But I'm hoping they have finally learned a thing or two about business.
History has shown?

...List of Awesome SOE Games...



Yes history has shown $OE mismanages their IP. I completely agree that SOE developers create magnificent work and at an incredible pace.

I'm not going to a party full of clowns (F2P), then offer to buy them all drinks. -GregorMcgregor

Playing: XCom, Rome Total War, Master of Orion II, Majesty 2, and HOMM I.
Played: Everquest, Planetside, Vanguard, Pirates of the Burning Sea, EVE, UO.

  ElRenmazuo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/28/06
Posts: 3458

7/08/13 3:38:03 PM#30
I see games like Demons Souls and Dark Souls become so popular because of their difficulty and those are modern games for modern gaming market so I dont see why devs are so afraid to make a mmo difficult.  Because Dark Souls take up just as much free time in a persons life as any mmo.  I remember playing Demons Souls for over 10 hours a day sometimes.
  Gallus85

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 922

7/08/13 3:51:59 PM#31
Originally posted by Arclan

 


Originally posted by Gallus85

Originally posted by Arclan OP makes excellent points. The WoW masses must be ready for a new challenge by now. Massive opportunity for $OE if they play their cards right which, history has shown, they don't. But I'm hoping they have finally learned a thing or two about business.
History has shown?

 

...List of Awesome SOE Games...


 


Yes history has shown $OE mismanages their IP. I completely agree that SOE developers create magnificent work and at an incredible pace.

That's an opinion and a stretch of one at that.

LA mismanaged SWG, not SOE.

EQ was managed great.  It takes real solid management to keep an MMORPG alive for 14 years.

EQ2 was also managed well.

Vanguard was taken over by SOE and revived with defibrillators.  That's solid management if I've ever seen it.

Planetside and PS2 have also been well taken care of.

I won't comment on other SOE games because I haven't played them personally.  But given my experiences with their games, I can hardly think of any company that both creates top notch products and manages them as well as SOE.  It's easy to nit pick and make criticism, but if you take a more objective view of the things they've done, they stand head and shoulders over most other companies.

They are by no means perfect, but no one is, and both their development team and post production management is pretty stellar.  I feel that MMORPG players invest a lot of time and passion into games, and are a quite a bit hyper-critical, especially when it's not  really deserved.

Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  Gallus85

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 922

7/08/13 4:00:29 PM#32
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by Gallus85


EQ2 (Was just as good was WoW *If you like WoW*, but had much higher PC system requirements so it didn't take off, but offered everything WoW did and more)

Now it is. At launch it was a terrible game that had little in common with wow. It was hardly the system requirements that sent people over to wow. It was the lack of fun.

It is a very different game now.

At launch is was almost exactly the same as WoW.  It had faction pvp, group dungeons, raid content, a nearly identical combat system, etc etc. 

The only main differences was EQ was less solo friendly, and the system requirements were much higher.  People were always complaining about how their PC ran WoW fine but EQ2 was getting poor fps (I didn't have that problem because I'm a PC enthusiast with a nice custom build rig).  And we all know how people like easier games.  Combine the two and what do you get?  WoW subs vs EQ2 subs.

Aside from what I covered, WoW and EQ2 were almost identical in the offered features and amount of content.  I liked EQ2 personally, but I understand why it didn't turn out as popular as WoW.

Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  Betaguy

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2359

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

7/08/13 4:11:24 PM#33
Originally posted by craftseeker
Originally posted by Havepie

The MMO world has taken a terrible turn from the days of EQ1. Developers have had to balance the wants and needs of a younger generation that needs instant gratification, and an older generation with less time on their hands. The days of camping 28 hours for JBoots are a thing in the past, the day of grinding in a dungeon from level 22 to 23 is all but over. Today, if you die, you simply respawn and go something else, you could even die as a mode of transportation. Yesteryear, if you died, you just signed up for 2 hours of getting your body back or paying someone to do it.

The landscape has changed, and while I, like most people, don't have time to burn into a game, I miss the sense of achievement when I finally get my epic after a month long journey. It will take a titan, one like SOE to right the ship in EQN. World of Warcraft capitalized on the instant gratification model, the easy model, but I am ready, and the world is ready for SOE to deliver the best of both worlds. To innovate and amaze. To Immerse and wonder us all over again.

I look forward to growing old friendships and forging new ones once again in the world of Norrath.

Always chuckle when I see that sort of comment (highlighted in red) what about the gamers like me, over 50 retired or semi-retired cashed up and more free time than a college student?

But as for Everquest NEXT and the original Everquest, that is right on the money IMHO.

Me as well, most of my online friends are 40-60, people disabled or retired...

  Quazal.A

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/10/13
Posts: 378

7/08/13 4:17:21 PM#34

Sorry have to just add :)

Most of the gaming world has not even heard of EQ or EQnext, :)

All MMO suffer this lack of site. i have a group of about 40 people in a corp im in who i have played with for last 4yrs when i said about me playing EQ Next when it hits OB 90% of them said Whats that then...

So even for me only after my browsing this forum for a new game to break up eve time (i like to play 3 games similtanous (sp)  did i find out about EQ Next :)

 

Just thought i would add that.. change the title to the MMO world or EQ1 players need EQN and ill agree fully lol

This post is all my opinion, but I welcome debate on anything i have put, however, personal slander / name calling belongs in game :) were of course your welcome to call me names im often found lounging about in EvE online.
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  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

7/08/13 4:23:50 PM#35

Yeah...of all the things the world needs EQN is at the top....

Then again from reactions here since Smed opened his mouth about EQN the first time this game will cure cancer,create peace in the Middle East.reverse global warming,end racism and all other isms and make you waffles and cake at the same time so maybe the OP is right.

  Khayotix

Novice Member

Joined: 11/02/08
Posts: 221

If I ever kill you, you'll be awake, you'll be facing me, and you'll be armed.

7/08/13 4:26:06 PM#36
Originally posted by CrazKanuk

OP makes GREAT points. I would LOVE to see this game released as advertised. However! There are a couple really, REALLY good reasons to cringe. 

 

1) Wizardry Online

2) Dragon's Prophet

 

Both games had such potential. I mean SOE basically took the Wizardry franchise and added in some permadeath and how can you mess it up? Well, download it. 

 

Secondly, you've got Dragon's Prophet! Ummmmm, let's see, it's freakin' Runewalker. Oh, oh, yeah and there are freakin' DRAGONS! How can you possibly mess that up? Well.... download it. 

 

I am literally ill thinking about EQN. First, I want to love it, I pray that it is half as good as it's being hyped, but then I also look at the other games that have been horrible. It's not even that the ideas are horrible, but the games are unfinished, unrealized, and uninspired. 

 

So! I think that the real question here, since you've basically got someone (Smed) trying to control the head of a dragon (SOE), is what wins? Money or "The Vision", because the delta between what we're expecting and what will actually be delivered will ultimately be sopping up cash, so unless someone writes a blank check to get this game done right, it will likely let us down. 

You do realize you are using games that SOE Published Not Developed right? Any games that are poor are not the fault of the publisher(unless the publisher is also the developer). Those games were developed by Gamepot and Runewaker respectively. SOE published so they use SC, instead of Gamepot Gold or Runewaker Coin or whatever they would call it. Having publishing contracts in no way makes SOE Responsible for their Quality, that is only on the developers.

 

So in the book as it should be written, SOE has always made Great MMO's. EQN will be no exception.

  Latronus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/10/08
Posts: 705

PC is not political correctness, it means Political Cowardice!

7/08/13 4:36:46 PM#37
Originally posted by Drakynn

Yeah...of all the things the world needs EQN is at the top....

Then again from reactions here since Smed opened his mouth about EQN the first time this game will cure cancer,create peace in the Middle East.reverse global warming,end racism and all other isms and make you waffles and cake at the same time so maybe the OP is right.

Well, not quite.  It may lead to the cure for cancer, time will tell, but peace in the Mid-East... Nope.  Only a few well placed nukes will do that, but then we'd have to decide to kill a bunch of our friends as well.  Reverse global warming... Well being that most eco-fools have no idea what they are talking about, I'll just say that will EQN WILL reverse this because it will cause hundreds of thousands of gamers to stay at home increasing the demand for more energy, so more coal, oil and natural gas will need to be mined, or more forests will be cut down to make room for wind and solar farms (kinda ironic that deforestation will be needed to make room for enough Chinese solar panels and huge wind mills to cut down on oil use), this will increase greenhouse emissions, melting the polar icecaps faster putting more fresh water into the Atlantic, decreasing the salinity of said ocean thereby shutting the Gulf Stream down causing a rapid progression into the next great ICE AGE.  THAT will obviously reverse global warming.  Racism will actually increase because of the overwhelming hatred for all thing GNOME, and it may make waffles and cake, but the Moms will gladly make it while the goobers take up space in Mom and Dad's Basements!

  Gallus85

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 922

7/08/13 4:46:20 PM#38
Originally posted by Latronus
Originally posted by Drakynn

Yeah...of all the things the world needs EQN is at the top....

Then again from reactions here since Smed opened his mouth about EQN the first time this game will cure cancer,create peace in the Middle East.reverse global warming,end racism and all other isms and make you waffles and cake at the same time so maybe the OP is right.

Well, not quite.  It may lead to the cure for cancer, time will tell, but peace in the Mid-East... Nope.  Only a few well placed nukes will do that, but then we'd have to decide to kill a bunch of our friends as well.  Reverse global warming... Well being that most eco-fools have no idea what they are talking about, I'll just say that will EQN WILL reverse this because it will cause hundreds of thousands of gamers to stay at home increasing the demand for more energy, so more coal, oil and natural gas will need to be mined, or more forests will be cut down to make room for wind and solar farms (kinda ironic that deforestation will be needed to make room for enough Chinese solar panels and huge wind mills to cut down on oil use), this will increase greenhouse emissions, melting the polar icecaps faster putting more fresh water into the Atlantic, decreasing the salinity of said ocean thereby shutting the Gulf Stream down causing a rapid progression into the next great ICE AGE.  THAT will obviously reverse global warming.  Racism will actually increase because of the overwhelming hatred for all thing GNOME, and it may make waffles and cake, but the Moms will gladly make it while the goobers take up space in Mom and Dad's Basements!

All the educated people call it climate change btw.  Not global warming.  That's a really old, dated and incorrect term for what is happening.

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  Dejoblue

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/11
Posts: 295

I'll give them heroics...and when everyone is super...no one will be.

7/08/13 5:03:47 PM#39

I am a Dave Georgeson fanboi. Once he came back and into the EQ franchise the atmosphere around the game and in the game changed for the better, imho. The whole morale of customer service and the way the forums were moderated and better communication with us about game updates and better community just happened to bring me in around the time he took over.

I started in 2007 and the game was dark and dreary, the atmosphere, the community, everyone seemed to have bittervets syndrome. Only recently has it really changed. Things seem bright and happy and cheerful. I dont know how to explain it but as a relative outsider coming from WoW that has been my perception. When Smokejumper arrived things changed.

And that is what has me excited for EQN. If there was still that aura of gloom and doom that many of you guys seem to be holding onto I wouldn't be here.

They have been trying new things like SOEMote and the whole free to play changeover. They are taking chances in an organized fashion, one step at a time but the good news is they are doing things differently not just for them but different from the entire industry. What other game opened up a free EQ2 server and then saw it's success and went full free to play? What other game introduces SOEMote. Some love it some think it is stupid but for RPers it is pretty cool and SOE is not limiting things to just the mainstream.

EQ didn't try to get 500K subscribers. WoW didn't try to get 12 million subscribers. They simply had an audience in mind and direction and a "vision" and they went with it. The uniqueness of it is what brought it to the masses. Everyone assumes every game HAS to try to get 10 million subs and conform to this formula that so far has fizzled for every company but WoW. I hope that EQN has a new formula all it's own and we will finally have choice between WoW's Coke and EQN's Pepsi.

  Gallus85

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 922

7/08/13 5:28:08 PM#40
Originally posted by dejoblue

I am a Dave Georgeson fanboi. Once he came back and into the EQ franchise the atmosphere around the game and in the game changed for the better, imho. The whole morale of customer service and the way the forums were moderated and better communication with us about game updates and better community just happened to bring me in around the time he took over.

I started in 2007 and the game was dark and dreary, the atmosphere, the community, everyone seemed to have bittervets syndrome. Only recently has it really changed. Things seem bright and happy and cheerful. I dont know how to explain it but as a relative outsider coming from WoW that has been my perception. When Smokejumper arrived things changed.

And that is what has me excited for EQN. If there was still that aura of gloom and doom that many of you guys seem to be holding onto I wouldn't be here.

They have been trying new things like SOEMote and the whole free to play changeover. They are taking chances in an organized fashion, one step at a time but the good news is they are doing things differently not just for them but different from the entire industry. What other game opened up a free EQ2 server and then saw it's success and went full free to play? What other game introduces SOEMote. Some love it some think it is stupid but for RPers it is pretty cool and SOE is not limiting things to just the mainstream.

EQ didn't try to get 500K subscribers. WoW didn't try to get 12 million subscribers. They simply had an audience in mind and direction and a "vision" and they went with it. The uniqueness of it is what brought it to the masses. Everyone assumes every game HAS to try to get 10 million subs and conform to this formula that so far has fizzled for every company but WoW. I hope that EQN has a new formula all it's own and we will finally have choice between WoW's Coke and EQN's Pepsi.

I agree, especially about subs.  Subs don't = quality.  WoW has millions of subs and I found it shallow and lackluster in many areas.  SWG was never extremely popular, and declined in subs rapidly right after launch, but I thought it was an amazing game.  EQ was one of my favorite MMO experiences ever, and I think at it's peek it barely broke 500k subs.

There's also other non-MMORPG examples.  Like the SIMS are one of the most popular and best selling PC games of all time, yet I can't stand to play the game for a few minutes at a time.

CoD is wildly more popular than Battlefield, and I've always found the battlefield series to be much more interesting and provided much better features and innovation.

StarCraft and SC2 are the most popular RTS games on the planet, yet I found SupCom and Company of Heroes to be largely better games in many aspects.

Point is, I don't care if EQN only attracts 10k players.  If it's a fun game, it's a fun game.

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