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Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn 

General Discussion  » Anyone else find the combat lacking?

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107 posts found
  aesperus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4779

7/06/13 9:22:22 PM#21
Originally posted by Impulse47
First and foremost, I am an oldschool Final Fantasy nerd.  When I heard the prologue music for this game I nearly burst into actual tears of nostalgia.  I -want- to like and play this game.  That being said, recently I have played TERA, Guild Wars 2, and DCUO, to name a few MMOs.  So I've rolled an Archer in FF14, and it is by far the most bland combat I've experienced in years.  It feels like a huge step backwards from other modern titles.  Is there really no active dodging?  I can shoot an arrow through a crowd of mobs and it will hit my tabbed target way in the back?  Combat so far is peg target and kite in circles mashing 1 and occasionally other skills.  Does combat ever get better, or even compare to these other games?

It's using oldschool FF rules. Maybe you're remembering some of those games a bit differently?

I don't necessarily disagree, but it's more action-oriented than FFXI, but FF is still not a game that has ever really been know for it's robust combat mechanics. It's had a few games with some interesting mechanics (job system / materia system), but it's always been the story & the visuals that carried this IP. FFXIV is no different, even after the revamp.

  ElRenmazuo

Elite Member

Joined: 10/28/06
Posts: 4281

7/06/13 9:23:50 PM#22
Originally posted by LeGrosGamer
Originally posted by Impulse47
First and foremost, I am an oldschool Final Fantasy nerd.  When I heard the prologue music for this game I nearly burst into actual tears of nostalgia.  I -want- to like and play this game.  That being said, recently I have played TERA, Guild Wars 2, and DCUO, to name a few MMOs.  So I've rolled an Archer in FF14, and it is by far the most bland combat I've experienced in years.  It feels like a huge step backwards from other modern titles.  Is there really no active dodging?  I can shoot an arrow through a crowd of mobs and it will hit my tabbed target way in the back?  Combat so far is peg target and kite in circles mashing 1 and occasionally other skills.  Does combat ever get better, or even compare to these other games?

Sorry, but when I hear the name Final Fantasy, first thing that comes to mind is the turned based battles. Which defined Final Fantasy through the years (20+ years).  Seeing this battle system being like any other MMO is a turn off for me, Final Fantasy or not.  How can you name a game Final Fantasy without it being turned base?   FairyLand looks pretty dull BUT at least they got the turned based battle right, which got me hooked up for a few years!    I can already see the party finder chat looking a bit like this : LF Wizard 3K+ HP  400+ DPS with spiky hat! .     Ugh, this reminds me so much of the month of hell I had to endure in Ragnarok Online 2. hehe :)

FInal Fantasy stopped being turn-based since they implemented the ATB system which was in Final Fantasy 4 but they did let you choose between two different modes Active mode and Wait mode but wait mode pretty much takes the whole point of the ATB system away since the system is meant to be the global cooldowns for both enemy and player party members which is what traditional mmo combat is based on:

There are usually two settings to ATB, Active mode and Wait mode. In Active mode, time flows regardless of what is going on in game. In Wait mode, time stops when the player is navigating menus

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_System

  Laughing-man

Novice Member

Joined: 4/23/09
Posts: 3392

I thought what I'd do is I'd pretend I was one of those Deaf-mutes.

7/06/13 9:24:23 PM#23
Originally posted by Impulse47
First and foremost, I am an oldschool Final Fantasy nerd.  When I heard the prologue music for this game I nearly burst into actual tears of nostalgia.  I -want- to like and play this game.  That being said, recently I have played TERA, Guild Wars 2, and DCUO, to name a few MMOs.  So I've rolled an Archer in FF14, and it is by far the most bland combat I've experienced in years.  It feels like a huge step backwards from other modern titles.  Is there really no active dodging?  I can shoot an arrow through a crowd of mobs and it will hit my tabbed target way in the back?  Combat so far is peg target and kite in circles mashing 1 and occasionally other skills.  Does combat ever get better, or even compare to these other games?

How many buttons do you hit at level 10 in TERA?

in Wow?

or what ever other game you are comparing this game to.

1-4 buttons?

This game has the same amount.

I've played  TERA, GW2, and their combat systems are quite similar. 

I don't understand why people play new games and then try to compare level 1-20 to level 50-90 on whatever game they were playing, but that seems to happen all the time...

  AmbassadorDvinn

Novice Member

Joined: 9/02/04
Posts: 351

7/06/13 9:28:13 PM#24

Yes, OP - the combat is very boring and doesn't get better.  People say to play it up into the 20s (which I did) and is supposed to get better.  Well, I played it into the 20s and played the dungeons.  The combat is still terrible.  I played several class up to the 15-25 range and experienced bland gameplay with all of them.

I know there's readers out there thinking as they read this "but it's a progression game!" and I get that, but I'm not playing 20 hours, bored out of my mind, to find the eventual fun in this combat system.  I refuse to waste my time in another WoW fetch'em quest hub game with no new innovations.  I just can't do it.  I wish I could - I love Final Fantasy.  Sad, really.

I'm not a sheep to be ushered through mindless gameplay mechanics that is presented to me as a themepark ride.  I can't do it anymore.

 

Serious death penalties makes every close call an adrenaline rush, and every minor achievement a major victory. This alternative rule-set should be in all MMORPGs.

  Laughing-man

Novice Member

Joined: 4/23/09
Posts: 3392

I thought what I'd do is I'd pretend I was one of those Deaf-mutes.

7/06/13 9:29:19 PM#25
Originally posted by AmbassadorDvinn

Yes, OP - the combat is very boring and doesn't get better.  People say to play it up into the 20s (which I did) and is supposed to get better.  Well, I played it into the 20s and played the dungeons.  The combat is still terrible.  It's basically the original Everquest combat without fun spell choices (the cool fancy ones that don't really have much to do with combat).  I played several class up to the 15-25 range and experienced bland gameplay with all of them.

I know there's readers out there thinking as they read this "but it's a progression game!" and I get that, but I'm not playing 20 hours, bored out of my mind, to find the eventual fun in this combat system.  I refuse to waste my time in another WoW fetch'em quest hub game with no new innovations.  I just can't do it.  I wish I could - I love Final Fantasy.  Sad, really.

 

What did you not l enjoy about the combat?

What did you think was worse in this game (combat wise) than other games?

What class did you play?

Where did you see a quest hub?  (I'm curious, I've never seen even one of them)

Lets see hub

 (hb)n.

1. The center part of a wheel, fan, or propeller.

2. A center of activity or interest; a focal point.

I've seen towns in the game, where you can get quests, that lead you from place to place, but none of this 'hub' you speak of, no centralized location where you repeatedly go to to get more quests and turn them back in, the quests in 14 lead you from place to place telling you a story, also you CANNOT quest to level cap, how is this a quest hub game?  Its not...

 

 

  Impulse47

Novice Member

Joined: 12/20/03
Posts: 167

Banned

 
OP  7/06/13 9:33:42 PM#26
Originally posted by Laughing-man
Originally posted by Impulse47
First and foremost, I am an oldschool Final Fantasy nerd.  When I heard the prologue music for this game I nearly burst into actual tears of nostalgia.  I -want- to like and play this game.  That being said, recently I have played TERA, Guild Wars 2, and DCUO, to name a few MMOs.  So I've rolled an Archer in FF14, and it is by far the most bland combat I've experienced in years.  It feels like a huge step backwards from other modern titles.  Is there really no active dodging?  I can shoot an arrow through a crowd of mobs and it will hit my tabbed target way in the back?  Combat so far is peg target and kite in circles mashing 1 and occasionally other skills.  Does combat ever get better, or even compare to these other games?

How many buttons do you hit at level 10 in TERA?

in Wow?

or what ever other game you are comparing this game to.

1-4 buttons?

This game has the same amount.

I've played  TERA, GW2, and their combat systems are quite similar. 

I don't understand why people play new games and then try to compare level 1-20 to level 50-90 on whatever game they were playing, but that seems to happen all the time...

This was never a discussion about the number of skills early / late game.

  moosecatlol

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/25/10
Posts: 1178

7/06/13 9:35:47 PM#27
RYL, never forget.
  Laughing-man

Novice Member

Joined: 4/23/09
Posts: 3392

I thought what I'd do is I'd pretend I was one of those Deaf-mutes.

7/06/13 9:36:04 PM#28
Originally posted by Impulse47
Originally posted by Laughing-man
Originally posted by Impulse47
First and foremost, I am an oldschool Final Fantasy nerd.  When I heard the prologue music for this game I nearly burst into actual tears of nostalgia.  I -want- to like and play this game.  That being said, recently I have played TERA, Guild Wars 2, and DCUO, to name a few MMOs.  So I've rolled an Archer in FF14, and it is by far the most bland combat I've experienced in years.  It feels like a huge step backwards from other modern titles.  Is there really no active dodging?  I can shoot an arrow through a crowd of mobs and it will hit my tabbed target way in the back?  Combat so far is peg target and kite in circles mashing 1 and occasionally other skills.  Does combat ever get better, or even compare to these other games?

How many buttons do you hit at level 10 in TERA?

in Wow?

or what ever other game you are comparing this game to.

1-4 buttons?

This game has the same amount.

I've played  TERA, GW2, and their combat systems are quite similar. 

I don't understand why people play new games and then try to compare level 1-20 to level 50-90 on whatever game they were playing, but that seems to happen all the time...

This was never a discussion about the number of skills early / late game.

No? The number of skills have nothing to do with why you find the combat bland?

You can bother to post about how you think that I'm off topic asking you questions, yet you cannot be bothered to answer them... when they pertain directly to your complaint.

I was just wondering why you thought it was bland... I guess you yourself do not know.

  PulsarMan

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/09
Posts: 208

7/06/13 9:38:01 PM#29
I enjoy it for what it is. I do hope they add a bit more diversity with the limit breaks. Or something similar to skill chains. 
  BatCakez

Novice Member

Joined: 12/20/07
Posts: 127

7/06/13 9:40:18 PM#30

I've found the combat to be very stale. I nearly did not go through with the beta because I felt so disappointed with this 'rebirth' conclusion. However, I figured I shouldn't be so biased and thought to give it another chance. I think some other things make up for the combat lacking.. like the crafting. The quests are not as annoying as WoW, either. Some of the armor is cute or interesting,  and so on. Bits and pieces but I'm still finding myself curious as to whether I should play this game on launch or not.

I personally miss the old animations from FFXIV 1.0, just my two cents, they were a million times better and combat was not as stiff in appearance.

 

I'll admit though, the lack of action combat is very close to actuall FF games, so it brings some nostalgia and novelty with it.

  Laughing-man

Novice Member

Joined: 4/23/09
Posts: 3392

I thought what I'd do is I'd pretend I was one of those Deaf-mutes.

7/06/13 9:40:22 PM#31
Originally posted by PulsarMan
I enjoy it for what it is. I do hope they add a bit more diversity with the limit breaks. Or something similar to skill chains. 

On the flip side, what do you enjoy about it?

I myself think it's combat is pretty standard, which I don't think is a bad thing.  It mimics a lot of other game's combat systems and yet comes up with its own mixture of things.

It has combos, it has a lot of the standard fare in MMOs, like global cool down based attacks, auto attacks, it seems like it doesn't try to reinvent the wheel, just polish it.  Which I like that mentality.

  moosecatlol

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/25/10
Posts: 1178

7/06/13 9:42:27 PM#32
Originally posted by Laughing-man
Originally posted by Impulse47
Originally posted by Laughing-man
Originally posted by Impulse47
First and foremost, I am an oldschool Final Fantasy nerd.  When I heard the prologue music for this game I nearly burst into actual tears of nostalgia.  I -want- to like and play this game.  That being said, recently I have played TERA, Guild Wars 2, and DCUO, to name a few MMOs.  So I've rolled an Archer in FF14, and it is by far the most bland combat I've experienced in years.  It feels like a huge step backwards from other modern titles.  Is there really no active dodging?  I can shoot an arrow through a crowd of mobs and it will hit my tabbed target way in the back?  Combat so far is peg target and kite in circles mashing 1 and occasionally other skills.  Does combat ever get better, or even compare to these other games?

How many buttons do you hit at level 10 in TERA?

in Wow?

or what ever other game you are comparing this game to.

1-4 buttons?

This game has the same amount.

I've played  TERA, GW2, and their combat systems are quite similar. 

I don't understand why people play new games and then try to compare level 1-20 to level 50-90 on whatever game they were playing, but that seems to happen all the time...

This was never a discussion about the number of skills early / late game.

No? The number of skills have nothing to do with why you find the combat bland?

You can bother to post about how you think that I'm off topic asking you questions, yet you cannot be bothered to answer them... when they pertain directly to your complaint.

I was just wondering why you thought it was bland... I guess you yourself do not know.

No, the number of skills have nothing to do with visceral combat. People want games where you hit someone they feel it in their chair. What makes this possible? Good animation frames, hit boxes, and super armor/flinching systems. The combat is simply dated, not sure why people can't see that.

  ElRenmazuo

Elite Member

Joined: 10/28/06
Posts: 4281

7/06/13 9:43:05 PM#33
You get gear that lowers global cool downs too so the speed of combat will be much faster as you progress.
  kabitoshin

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/16/12
Posts: 730

7/06/13 9:43:17 PM#34
Nothing seems lacking to me the combat is traditional but a little slower. I don't know what you think is lacking, running around doesn't make sense with the slower paced combat. If you want action combat, then wait for FFXV cause combat isn't changing in this game. If you don't like the combat now, then you most likely won't like it later on in the game either.
  Laughing-man

Novice Member

Joined: 4/23/09
Posts: 3392

I thought what I'd do is I'd pretend I was one of those Deaf-mutes.

7/06/13 9:44:19 PM#35
Originally posted by moosecatlol

No, the number of skills have nothing to do with visceral combat. People want games where you hit someone they feel it in their chair. What makes this possible? Good animation frames, hit boxes, and super armor/flinching systems. The combat is simply dated, not sure why people can't see that.

Dated how? 

Personally the animations DO look 'VISCERAL' to me, when you savage blade it looks like you just cut the monster up, the combat animations look fantastic... 

What's a super armor flinching system?  I have no idea what that is...

Hit boxes?  This game has that... every game does.. do you mean collision detection? 

  F2Plague

Novice Member

Joined: 5/07/13
Posts: 51

7/06/13 9:44:52 PM#36
FFXIV may not be for you if you don't like the combat. Although it will pick up as you level, a lot of the game is built around grouping and team combat. Which a lot of people including myself like. But I also liked action combat, not many people will admit that Tera actually had great combat. Some of the best times I've had on an MMO were doing clan wars. That being said, I will be playing FFXI, but what I am really waiting for is Black Desert. If you haven't taken a look at that I suggest you do, sounds like its right up your alley. No release date yet, as its in closed beta in Korea. But many Western publishers are interested in making it happen already.
  django-django

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/12
Posts: 115

7/06/13 9:45:35 PM#37
I really enjoy the combat, the animations especially brings it to life and makes the battles much more interesting, quite the opposite of bland to be honest.
  simsalabim77

Novice Member

Joined: 4/27/13
Posts: 617

7/06/13 9:50:46 PM#38
Originally posted by Laughing-man
Originally posted by Impulse47
First and foremost, I am an oldschool Final Fantasy nerd.  When I heard the prologue music for this game I nearly burst into actual tears of nostalgia.  I -want- to like and play this game.  That being said, recently I have played TERA, Guild Wars 2, and DCUO, to name a few MMOs.  So I've rolled an Archer in FF14, and it is by far the most bland combat I've experienced in years.  It feels like a huge step backwards from other modern titles.  Is there really no active dodging?  I can shoot an arrow through a crowd of mobs and it will hit my tabbed target way in the back?  Combat so far is peg target and kite in circles mashing 1 and occasionally other skills.  Does combat ever get better, or even compare to these other games?

How many buttons do you hit at level 10 in TERA?

in Wow?

or what ever other game you are comparing this game to.

1-4 buttons?

This game has the same amount.

I've played  TERA, GW2, and their combat systems are quite similar. 

I don't understand why people play new games and then try to compare level 1-20 to level 50-90 on whatever game they were playing, but that seems to happen all the time...

 

By level 20 in XIV you are 40% of the way to cap. Just so someone doesn't jump down my throat; I don't mean in terms of experience, but in terms of skill progression for a single job. Lancer, for example, has eight abilities and four or five passive traits by 20. I don't remember how many cross-class abilities you get at 20, but I'm pretty sure it's not more than four or so. So, to recap we have eight abilities plus four (give or take) from another job, and four passive skills by level 20(40% of the way to cap) in FFXIV:ARR. 

 

To contrast, a level 50 (55% of the way to cap) Shaman in WoW has 27 base abilities and three passive abilities. There are three specs. One adds, two new abilities and 10 passives. The second spec adds four abilities and six passives. The third adds six abilities and seven passives. On top of that there are three talent points with a total of nine choices and a bunch(15+) of glyphs to choose from. 

 

ARR just does not offer a very deep and/or complex combat system for someone to sink their teeth into which is fine, but let's not try to put lipstick on a pig. 

 

edit: I forgot about advanced job skills for ARR which would add a few more abilities. 

  Laughing-man

Novice Member

Joined: 4/23/09
Posts: 3392

I thought what I'd do is I'd pretend I was one of those Deaf-mutes.

7/06/13 9:52:55 PM#39
Originally posted by simsalabim77
Originally posted by Laughing-man
Originally posted by Impulse47
First and foremost, I am an oldschool Final Fantasy nerd.  When I heard the prologue music for this game I nearly burst into actual tears of nostalgia.  I -want- to like and play this game.  That being said, recently I have played TERA, Guild Wars 2, and DCUO, to name a few MMOs.  So I've rolled an Archer in FF14, and it is by far the most bland combat I've experienced in years.  It feels like a huge step backwards from other modern titles.  Is there really no active dodging?  I can shoot an arrow through a crowd of mobs and it will hit my tabbed target way in the back?  Combat so far is peg target and kite in circles mashing 1 and occasionally other skills.  Does combat ever get better, or even compare to these other games?

How many buttons do you hit at level 10 in TERA?

in Wow?

or what ever other game you are comparing this game to.

1-4 buttons?

This game has the same amount.

I've played  TERA, GW2, and their combat systems are quite similar. 

I don't understand why people play new games and then try to compare level 1-20 to level 50-90 on whatever game they were playing, but that seems to happen all the time...

 

By level 20 in XIV you are 40% of the way to cap. Just so someone doesn't jump down my throat; I don't mean in terms of experience, but in terms of skill progression for a single job. Lancer, for example, has eight abilities and four or five passive traits by 20. I don't remember how many cross-class abilities you get at 20, but I'm pretty sure it's not more than four or so. So, to recap we have eight abilities plus four (give or take) from another job, and four passive skills by level 20(40% of the way to cap) in FFXIV:ARR. 

 

To contrast, a level 50 (55% of the way to cap) Shaman in WoW has 27 base abilities and three passive abilities. There are three specs. One adds, two new abilities and 10 passives. The second spec adds four abilities and six passives. The third adds six abilities and seven passives. On top of that there are three talent points with a total of nine choices and a bunch(15+) of glyphs to choose from. 

 

ARR just does not offer a very deep and/or complex combat system for someone to sink their teeth into which is fine, but let's not try to put lipstick on a pig. 

At level 50 (level cap right now in ARR) you have 27 abilities as any given job.

That is far more than you probably will actually need.

Lets look at my Paladin on WoW and check out how many abilities it has that are rarely if ever used... quite a few...

My point isn't that 'oh wow this game has A LOT of skills'.  My point was it has enough to do what it needs, which is create a compelling combat system.

  ElRenmazuo

Elite Member

Joined: 10/28/06
Posts: 4281

7/06/13 9:56:04 PM#40
Originally posted by simsalabim77

 

By level 20 in XIV you are 40% of the way to cap. Just so someone doesn't jump down my throat; I don't mean in terms of experience, but in terms of skill progression for a single job. Lancer, for example, has eight abilities and four or five passive traits by 20. I don't remember how many cross-class abilities you get at 20, but I'm pretty sure it's not more than four or so. So, to recap we have eight abilities plus four (give or take) from another job, and four passive skills by level 20(40% of the way to cap) in FFXIV:ARR. 

 

To contrast, a level 50 (55% of the way to cap) Shaman in WoW has 27 base abilities and three passive abilities. There are three specs. One adds, two new abilities and 10 passives. The second spec adds four abilities and six passives. The third adds six abilities and seven passives. On top of that there are three talent points with a total of nine choices and a bunch(15+) of glyphs to choose from. 

 

ARR just does not offer a very deep and/or complex combat system for someone to sink their teeth into which is fine, but let's not try to put lipstick on a pig. 

 

edit: I forgot about advanced job skills for ARR which would add a few more abilities. 

In vanilla WoW when the game was released the level cap was 60 so 50% would be level 30 not 50 before all the expansions. Maybe that would be a more fair comparison?

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