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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Is there a negative stigma against "MMO"?

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33 posts found
  Bidwood

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 555

 
OP  7/06/13 6:15:06 PM#1

- Elder Scrolls Online is now described as "more of a multiplayer Elder Scrolls than MMO".

 

- Similar comments were made about Destiny and The Division.

 

Any others?

 

I'm wondering if this is a marketing thing to draw in people who are turned off by the term "MMO" or if these games are legitimately somewhere in between multi-player and MMO. "Large Multiplayer Online" game? ;)

  ozmono

Novice Member

Joined: 3/12/06
Posts: 1045

7/06/13 7:30:25 PM#2

I don't know if it is because people are turned off by something called an MMO but I'm confident assuming it's a marketing ploy of some kind nevertheless. I actually see more of the opposite though, games claiming they are MMOs for marketing reasons rather than factual reasons. Hex was the last game I saw do this successfully but it wasn't the first nor do I think it'll be the last.

 

I'm not sure if there is a negative stigma against MMO's or not but I guess it depends who you ask. Some people are very jaded and bitter regarding the state of the genre so they might say so but on the other hand they generally have a vision or some hope of how it could be improved and are very passionate about it. Than there are people who are happy with the genre and I guess for them the answer would be different.

 

So the best I can do other than point out that it's subjective is to give my own feelings regarding it. MMO still has positive connotations with me. I can enjoy some of them now, I have hope for them in the future but most importantly I think they have more potential than any other genre out there and as such MMO excites me still.

  Jadedangel1

Novice Member

Joined: 5/25/13
Posts: 187

7/06/13 7:39:45 PM#3
I don't know either if it is a stigma or not, But with ESO people were already complaining that the devs was messing the game up and that it wasn't a true MMO so maybe they market it this way to save the game. Who knows? And Destiny wasn't being called a MMO from the get go, probably because it is solely a console game. It was the gamers who saw bits of it and said, "If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, its an MMO".
  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12401

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

7/06/13 7:43:08 PM#4

The term has so much baggage to it in the form of expectation and preconception that most Western developers are either avoiding the term or using it only where they have to. Some more examples of where it is and isn't used:

 

  • Defiance is called a 'massive online shooter'
  • Wildstar goes nowhere near the term on their The Game page, and the term is noticeably absent from their trailer.
  • Hex calls their game an MMOTCG, but it actually works in their favor as it indicates it's more than just an online TCG for the card game crowd and indicates it's something refreshingly different for the MMO crowd.
  • The vibe I get from the CU blogs is that they know it's going to be a step beyond the typical MMO but don't want to step into sandbox baggage territory, which is why they often reinforce it is an MMORPG but it has sandbox elements. They seem to be pretty smart about not overselling it.

 

My prediction is that over the next year you'll see the use of that term shift further and further out in the rings of discussion until it's no longer used. Those concentric rings being core gamers > MMO gamers > MMO gaming site > gaming press > other press/media. I say that because that's where it's already going. While SOE and the old guard of early devs are attached to the term, the newer studios - especially their marketing and PR teams - are going to steer clear of it.

 

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4899

7/06/13 7:47:02 PM#5
Out of the millions of MMORPG gamers that came in from WoW, many weren't really MMORPG gamers to begin with.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12401

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

7/06/13 7:55:43 PM#6
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Out of the millions of MMORPG gamers that came in from WoW, many weren't really MMORPG gamers to begin with.

It's been over a decade. They're probably familiar with the term by now.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4899

7/06/13 8:02:34 PM#7
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Out of the millions of MMORPG gamers that came in from WoW, many weren't really MMORPG gamers to begin with.

It's been over a decade. They're probably familiar with the term by now.

That's not what I meant. I am talking about crossing genres to play a game type that under other circumstances wouldn't appeal. Now the industry is trying desperately to keep players who wouldn't otherwise have come into a genre where slow and steady is the name of the game if not for a fluke.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

7/06/13 8:26:16 PM#8

Of course there's a negative stigma.  The gameplay found in non-MMOs has consistently been higher quality on average than MMO gameplay, in part due to the enormous technical and design tax of being MMO.

MMOs have historically had a lot of nonsense system design (staring at spellbooks, excessive travel times) which have either existed without benefit, or at least without a benefit that was worth it.

But of course it's not all about avoiding the stigma.  Partly it's marketing, and partly it's genuine intent to create a game which is as fun as a non-MMO (like Skyrim.)  Although this renews my concerns about how fun the game's group play will be, as that's what keeps me playing an MMO.  Maybe I'll talk with my friend who's working on it to raise this concern.

  LeGrosGamer

Novice Member

Joined: 7/06/13
Posts: 214

7/06/13 8:44:11 PM#9
Originally posted by Bidwood

- Elder Scrolls Online is now described as "more of a multiplayer Elder Scrolls than MMO".

 

- Similar comments were made about Destiny and The Division.

 

Any others?

 

I'm wondering if this is a marketing thing to draw in people who are turned off by the term "MMO" or if these games are legitimately somewhere in between multi-player and MMO. "Large Multiplayer Online" game? ;)

There is in fact. And with all the F2P titles released in the past 5 years, doesn't help the MMO world at all.  The future of MMO's are in the hands of indie developers that will try and create a MMO for a certain type of audience and not aiming for 50 billion$ profit a year along with 10 million active players.   2014 is the year of the Indie , with some nice titles announced for release , and I ain't talking about the flop which will be The Elder Scrolls Online.    2013 is a sad year for MMO's.  :(     

  ozmono

Novice Member

Joined: 3/12/06
Posts: 1045

7/06/13 9:00:55 PM#10
Originally posted by Axehilt

Of course there's a negative stigma.  The gameplay found in non-MMOs has consistently been higher quality on average than MMO gameplay, in part due to the enormous technical and design tax of being MMO.

MMOs have historically had a lot of nonsense system design (staring at spellbooks, excessive travel times) which have either existed without benefit, or at least without a benefit that was worth it.

But of course it's not all about avoiding the stigma.  Partly it's marketing, and partly it's genuine intent to create a game which is as fun as a non-MMO (like Skyrim.)  Although this renews my concerns about how fun the game's group play will be, as that's what keeps me playing an MMO.  Maybe I'll talk with my friend who's working on it to raise this concern.

There are also good things about MMOs that single player games cannot compete with. I don't feel like putting too much effort into writing a list of things and how they work in combination to provide an experience not found in single player games (because most of us including you know it already) so I'll just sum it up by saying the social intricacies combined with persistency and more content make MMOs capable of delivering something not found in single player games.

  killahh

Novice Member

Joined: 8/25/04
Posts: 455

As famous as the unknown soldier

7/07/13 1:11:12 AM#11
Massively multiplayer online role playing game.

Uo, Eq, AC, SWG, DAOC

Massively multiplayer online game.

Wow, rift, eve, and the clones

Multiplayer online

Defiance, ESO, ect

Guess in a way i am saying as the social immersion drops, games seem to be becoming online single player games that have other people in them, and that is kinda sad :/

Gonada Dahung,over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting....Please Lord, let someone make a game that had all the awesomeness of UO, EQ and EVE...

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19251

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

7/07/13 1:24:20 AM#12
The term has become too diluted to have much meaning. Ten years ago people knew what a MMORPG really involved, but now you need a half dozen qualifiers, such as CORPG, MOBA, MMOVRPG, MMOARPG etc.

Heck, I'm not sure anyone is making traditional MMORPGs anymore.

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, "Meany", you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  djazzy

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/05
Posts: 3623

7/07/13 1:26:52 AM#13

MMO usually is code word for "not fun" in my mind.

For a lot of non mmo players, it also has the stigma of grindy gameplay attached to it. A lot of my gamer friends won't play them because of that.

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

7/07/13 4:03:29 AM#14
Originally posted by killahh
Massively multiplayer online game.

Wow, rift, eve, and the clones

WOW and RIFT are as much an RPG as any videogame RPG ever made...

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 6122

7/07/13 4:12:32 AM#15
Originally posted by Bidwood

- Elder Scrolls Online is now described as "more of a multiplayer Elder Scrolls than MMO".

 

- Similar comments were made about Destiny and The Division.

 

Any others?

 

I'm wondering if this is a marketing thing to draw in people who are turned off by the term "MMO" or if these games are legitimately somewhere in between multi-player and MMO. "Large Multiplayer Online" game? ;)

Its a marketing tactic.

 

its been confirmed that TESO isnt a MMO at all. Its a CORPG like GW1 but with a larger scale version of PvP. World is instanced like Neverwinter for PvE in which only a small percentage of the population you can ever see at the same time or play with. only chat windows have the MMO scale.

 

 

Notice games like Guild Wars 1 also used that statement ""more of a multiplayer Elder Scrolls than MMO""

 

Its a statement used to hype up MMO players because it mentions the term directly, while also appealing to non MMO players.

 

its very clever. I learn to pick up on these kind of things. So dont mind me on this. Sheep-minded consumers dont really care until after the hype drops and their money is wasted.

  cribett

Novice Member

Joined: 3/11/04
Posts: 78

“Accept the challenges so that you may feel the exhilaration of victory.”

7/07/13 4:30:22 AM#16
With the current trash being release in this generation of MMORPG's I would say yes and rightly so .
  Scot

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5282

7/07/13 4:37:18 AM#17

Might I suggest they just don't make them like they used to, so gaming companies are getting wary of being compared to the large online worlds that we used to have?

We do have different kinds of MMO games coming out, but many are calling themselves MMO's and then setting their own standards for what that means. As a term it will not die out, but there has been problems with adopting new names for new types of MMO, I think we should embrace that. what's wrong with MMOFPS? Online action RPG's seem to have the same ARPG term as their offline counter parts, sometimes they are called online ARPG MMO's, this is where it gets confusing.

Marketing is to blame here I think, "if we put MMO in the title we will get more hits" that sort of thinking has caused a real problem. We do get these issues posted on here quite a bit which shows players are sometimes being puzzled by what companies are calling their games. But the terms have and will evolve, I think the types of games may evolve faster though!

  Sengi

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 344

7/07/13 11:06:30 AM#18
I think the therm "mmos" is being discredited form several sides. 
 
- People that exclusively play shooters, or sport games often see mmos a lame and boring, as games for geeky types where people speak in thees in thous, and there is not much action. 
 
- There is a bad picture painted of mmos in the media. There are people that get addicted and there are many horror stories about players falling dead from chairs because of dehydration and babies starving to death. 
 
- Some people only know bad F2P grinders and associate mmos with cheap games just made to grab money. Somehow these are the games that invest the most into promotion. When I see ads for mmos on the net or on tv its always for some really bad asian grinder. Its even the same on this site. 
 
- And there are the people (where i add myself to some extent) that think that mmos are always this same old same old. If you have seen WoW, you have basically seen them all.  
 
Over the years the mmo-genre has become narrowed on a set of stereotypical features and it is dragging along a lot of dead weight. This is the same way the point and klick adventure genre ended. If mmos are not able to break the mold soon the genre is in danger of going the same way. At least games are starting to take baby steps in the right direction.
  DavisFlight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2592

7/07/13 11:09:07 AM#19

Nowadays, yes. For two reasons.

 

Either they have no idea what it means because virtually every game with an online component, from LoL to Age of Empires Online are being called MMOs.

 

Or, they just picture a fantasy setting where they quest grind, aka, a WoW clone, and assume all MMOs are like that. And who can blame them? 8 years since WoW came out and only TWO AAA MMORPGs could be safely called not WoW clones.

  niceguy3978

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/06
Posts: 1995

7/07/13 11:14:26 AM#20
Originally posted by DavisFlight

Nowadays, yes. For two reasons.

 

Either they have no idea what it means because virtually every game with an online component, from LoL to Age of Empires Online are being called MMOs.

 

Or, they just picture a fantasy setting where they quest grind, aka, a WoW clone, and assume all MMOs are like that. And who can blame them? 8 years since WoW came out and only TWO AAA MMORPGs could be safely called not WoW clones.

Which two AAA games would you consider not a WoW clone?

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