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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Were sheep, developers decide what we like.

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60 posts found
  page975

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/02/13
Posts: 317

 
OP  7/06/13 5:58:35 AM#1

Games.  I call them games because most are not mmos. People will argue the definition of what an mmo is, I DON'T CARE ABOUT THIS ARGUEMENT.....We now have two styles :

 

Community style ( mmo )

- Open world, no dungeon finders, free to do what you like, no mega servers or phasing, most of all hard where you need others. After all where are these people asking for easy ?......Are moms really calling Blizzard saying their 5 year old would like easy ?. Come on developers are making this crap up to make you rush to the next expantion....were sheep believing this. It's all about marketing.

 

Games you play with others around you ( non-mmo )

- Zoned, carrot on a stick, going from one quest hub to the next, follow a leaner path, smart servers that are not smart for community building. Instant fun videoing.

 

 

Here is where I disagree with 90% of the people on this site. They call " Community style " old school. However Community style was never expanded upon ( made better ). Instead Developers took it upon them selfs to decide what is good and new.

Players were lead like sheep down this path and scratch their heads trying to figure out why they jump from one game to the next. It does not matter who makes the game or graphics,abilities,classes, factions, PvP, PvE end game none of it. PEOPLE WILL NOT STAY IF ITS NOT MADE FOR A COMMUNITY.....Community is the ONLY thing that would make a player of an mmo log in five months down the road. 

 

I'm playing Darkfall UW right now. This MMO is going strong right now, even the boards here are very active.

Is the game great ?...No........It has a lot of missing features, it has a major harvesting and crafting grind, its hard to compete in PvP with the higher end players until you play hard core for weeks to be the least bit completive.

So why is this mmo going strong with so many flaws ?.....Because, it's the only real mmo out their !.....You go where you feel, You don't know what you would run into each time you log in.  Most of all you REALLY PLAY WITH A COMMUNITY.

We would have a WoW killer if a developer would step back and think, really think of what would make a long standing mmo PvE PvP instead of a non community, full of feature carrot on a stick crap of a game like every game on the list.

 

 

  rojo6934

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 4546

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

7/06/13 6:07:25 AM#2

no developer decide what i like. I support a game if i like it and deem it worthy of my money. Very few of them these past few years are worthy of  seeing my wallet opening to them, but i am not a developer to make the game i would love eternally. So i have to stick with supporting the very few games i like until something better (and different) comes out. As long as i like it and enjoy playing it, ill support it. As soon as it feels like a chore, im out. If its faceroll easy, im also out unless i can find a way to make it challenging for myself.

"in peace, in sleep under the barren, abandoned soil"

  Bjelar

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/07/12
Posts: 383

7/06/13 6:11:01 AM#3

I completely disagree.

Developers have got access to numbers. Numbers don't lie. Players are drawn to solo-content like flies. PvPers go to great lenghts to avoid PvP. If players CAN grind stuff for months they WILL.

 

I think games would be so much better if developers stopped listening to what players SAY they want, and do what the numbers tell them players DO do. 

 

And to some extent it does make sense. If I feel extra social one day, I go to the pub. I meet up with friends real life. To be painfully honest, I don't think I have ever considered gameing and MMOs to be a social activity. I play computer games when I don't feel very social, or when my friends are too busy to go to the pub.

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 3763

7/06/13 6:16:27 AM#4

You have it backwards - we are telling developers what we want and they in turn create it by popular demand.

Key word is popular, as in majority.

Majority want MMO *games* not alternate life online requiring another 40+ hours a week spent in game.

Its about convenience - example - dungeon finders, most disliked spendig 30min or more just putring a group together, or phasing - done to improve performance, heck even putting in 1000s of quests - all these took additional work to program and implement, it would have been much easier for devs to leave them out and do it the old way.

So why did Dev studios spend all the extra time adding features - because the majority wanted them, wanted convenience, they wanted a game to be played for a short period.

 

The Dev studios are adjusting to the ever changing market, as the majority swing back to more sandbox gameplay, this is why you see more sandbox elements added to upcoming games.

Games will continue to shape shift as the players wants and needs evolve.

There is not a single major MMORPG that gets developed without market research supporting that it will be viable in the market, devs don't sit around and say - well we have $50 million, let's throw a game together - it doesn't happen like that, every game has to be greenlit before it gets OK for major funding.

 

 

 

  rojo6934

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 4546

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

7/06/13 6:18:43 AM#5
Originally posted by Bjelar

I think games would be so much better if developers stopped listening to what players SAY they want, and do what the numbers tell them players DO do. 

 

Activision follows their numbers (like you say) and what do we have? the same CoD every year because thats what people buy.

I think big publishers have the worst influence over developers making bad games. Not the players.

"in peace, in sleep under the barren, abandoned soil"

  Athena_Starfire

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/25/09
Posts: 161

UH! Whats this lever do?

7/06/13 6:20:27 AM#6

Well, I know what I like, I try most the new MMO's then I go back to working on my NWN1 World.

The will never be another game like it.

 

 

  DocBrody

Elite Member

Joined: 4/24/13
Posts: 1185

7/06/13 6:27:17 AM#7
No they are scared of being "niche" they rather like to make games "for everyone", then go F2P and shut down
  page975

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/02/13
Posts: 317

 
OP  7/06/13 6:28:08 AM#8

WoW : 

Easy, don't need others until end game.

Dungeon finder, don't need others.

 

Rift :

Quest hubs, Cant play with others because you have to match each other quest for quest in a carrot on a stick fashion, until end game.

 

Guild Wars 2 :

Quest hub, carrot on a stick

Auto grouping

Smart servers, but you will eventually make it to your server, but don't make any sudden moves because your off your server again.

 

D&D Online, LOTRO, EQ2, Neverwinter :

F2P....Who has purchased what package ? who is gimped ?....I can't play with you, you will not spend a penny.

 

Defiance :

The chat is screwed up, best to play by yourself anyway after all it's auto grouping....Developers don't care anyway.

 

Aion :

They actually drop popcorn on the ground where to go next !

 

Warhammer :

Remember that mess, remember the marketing. RvR, yet they game all the exp to scenarios leaving RvR and the open world a ghost town.

 

Wildstar :

They are keeping the cash shop a secret....Why ?

 

I could sit here all day with every game ( most are not mmos ). something in common NOT BUILT FOR COMMUNITY !

 

  Gatlan

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/19/13
Posts: 93

7/06/13 6:29:25 AM#9

.

weresheep

  Quazal.A

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/10/13
Posts: 378

7/06/13 6:35:08 AM#10
Originally posted by page975

So why is this mmo going strong with so many flaws ?.....Because, it's the only real mmo out their !.....You go where you feel, You don't know what you would run into each time you log in.  Most of all you REALLY PLAY WITH A COMMUNITY.

 

The rest of your post made my eyes glaze over.. so meh,

But in terms of this you are saying the UO is only game were community counts, have you never seen / tried / played (and by play i mean more than the 14/21 day trial) EvE Online

This game is built on what the players want, around 50% of the structure of the game has been developed from player ideas if this is not community gaming i have no idea what your expecting

Eve has a council that deals directly with the developers, heck CCP pay for them to go to Iceland (from anywhere in the world they live) to meet face to face to discuss how the game will be moved, there have been a few instances where the council has thrown out some ideas from these meetings and CCP has followed this.

If you really dont believe me google "monoclegate Eve online" and see the power that players have in EvE.

So please come back when you have done more research, because even with my limited (about 15-20 games) volume of games played i know 1 other straight away, im sure there are other , smaller/more focussed mmo out there that are also the same

This post is all my opinion, but I welcome debate on anything i have put, however, personal slander / name calling belongs in game :) were of course your welcome to call me names im often found lounging about in EvE online.
Use this code for 21days trial in eve online https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=d385aff2-794a-44a4-96f1-3967ccf6d720&action=buddy

  InFlamestwo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/20/11
Posts: 677

7/06/13 6:37:45 AM#11
Most developers give the majority what they want.

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 3763

7/06/13 6:46:54 AM#12
Originally posted by InFlamestwo
Most developers give the majority what they want.

True and to the point. 

MMORPGs average cost is $50+ million (AAA game) - catering to 30,000 players is not gonna work, basic economics.

 

 

  User Deleted
7/06/13 6:48:09 AM#13
Originally posted by page975

Guild Wars 2 :

Quest hub, carrot on a stick

Auto grouping

Smart servers, but you will eventually make it to your server, but don't make any sudden moves because your off your server again

You either haven't played GW2 or have no idea what you're talking about. There are no quest hubs, there are no carrots on a stick, the community comes together for meta events (gasp! which is a good thing). Maybe if sandbox communities were not full of 40 year old men acting like 12 year old chavs more people would play

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11358

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

7/06/13 11:24:28 AM#14
Originally posted by DMKano

You have it backwards - we are telling developers what we want and they in turn create it by popular demand.

Key word is popular, as in majority.

Majority want MMO *games* not alternate life online requiring another 40+ hours a week spent in game.

Its about convenience - example - dungeon finders, most disliked spendig 30min or more just putring a group together, or phasing - done to improve performance, heck even putting in 1000s of quests - all these took additional work to program and implement, it would have been much easier for devs to leave them out and do it the old way.

So why did Dev studios spend all the extra time adding features - because the majority wanted them, wanted convenience, they wanted a game to be played for a short period.

 

The Dev studios are adjusting to the ever changing market, as the majority swing back to more sandbox gameplay, this is why you see more sandbox elements added to upcoming games.

Games will continue to shape shift as the players wants and needs evolve.

There is not a single major MMORPG that gets developed without market research supporting that it will be viable in the market, devs don't sit around and say - well we have $50 million, let's throw a game together - it doesn't happen like that, every game has to be greenlit before it gets OK for major funding.

A rather accurate overview of how it all works.

  madazz

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/07/03
Posts: 1256

7/06/13 12:19:18 PM#15

I am responding to the title due to its absurdity.

I 100% disagree with you. The problem with MMO's is developers are listening to what people want. They aren't making a game that they think will be engaging. They aren't being artistic or creative. Instead, they are following guidelines set out by a shit-ton of whiners on forums that end up manifested in games that are run of the mill clone copies of one another. 

You can't please everybody. And that is the developers problem. If developers could choose what players liked then MMO's wouldn't be losing players/shutting down, and I sure as hell would be active in one right now.

  Rusque

Elite Member

Joined: 6/08/10
Posts: 1480

7/06/13 12:29:28 PM#16
Originally posted by Bjelar

I completely disagree.

Developers have got access to numbers. Numbers don't lie. Players are drawn to solo-content like flies. PvPers go to great lenghts to avoid PvP. If players CAN grind stuff for months they WILL.

 

I think games would be so much better if developers stopped listening to what players SAY they want, and do what the numbers tell them players DO do. 

 

And to some extent it does make sense. If I feel extra social one day, I go to the pub. I meet up with friends real life. To be painfully honest, I don't think I have ever considered gameing and MMOs to be a social activity. I play computer games when I don't feel very social, or when my friends are too busy to go to the pub.

This.

Developers have track data on what players do. You have to ask yourself, why a developer would willing look at the data, see what most of the players are doing and then ignore that information completely in order to work on a portion of the game very few players are interested in.

 

  page975

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/02/13
Posts: 317

 
OP  7/06/13 12:36:58 PM#17
Originally posted by madazz

I am responding to the title due to its absurdity.

I 100% disagree with you. The problem with MMO's is developers are listening to what people want. They aren't making a game that they think will be engaging. They aren't being artistic or creative. Instead, they are following guidelines set out by a shit-ton of whiners on forums that end up manifested in games that are run of the mill clone copies of one another. 

You can't please everybody. And that is the developers problem. If developers could choose what players liked then MMO's wouldn't be losing players/shutting down, and I sure as hell would be active in one right now.

I 100% disagree with you.  They are giving us what they want and telling us players asked for it.

- Do you ask for easy ?....Do you know anyone that does ?

- Do you ask for Mega servers and copies of realms, if it effects the community ?

- Do you ask for crazy out of hand F2P, P2W and heavy cash shops ?....well, maybe you are one of the totally free players that jumped on the mmo band wagon because its one of the only ways to get something for free !

 

Yet we see thousands of post, post after post of how everyone hates every mmo......... Are you so blind to not know that developers are telling you how to play ? 

 

  Vermillion_Raventhal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/01/04
Posts: 835

7/06/13 1:53:27 PM#18

Lol, but for a MMORPG it's stupid to not building for the long term vs. building for what players want now.

 

Its like find out what's the most desired food and then serve this exclusively.  Not only would we have a bad diet we'd be tired of eating the same crap.  Essentially this is what MMORPG's are.  

  Shadowguy64

Novice Member

Joined: 4/11/13
Posts: 880

7/06/13 2:01:47 PM#19

We're

 

 

  DamonVile

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 3644

7/06/13 2:02:25 PM#20
Originally posted by page975
Originally posted by madazz

I am responding to the title due to its absurdity.

I 100% disagree with you. The problem with MMO's is developers are listening to what people want. They aren't making a game that they think will be engaging. They aren't being artistic or creative. Instead, they are following guidelines set out by a shit-ton of whiners on forums that end up manifested in games that are run of the mill clone copies of one another. 

You can't please everybody. And that is the developers problem. If developers could choose what players liked then MMO's wouldn't be losing players/shutting down, and I sure as hell would be active in one right now.

I 100% disagree with you.  They are giving us what they want and telling us players asked for it.

- Do you ask for easy ?....Do you know anyone that does ?

- Do you ask for Mega servers and copies of realms, if it effects the community ?

- Do you ask for crazy out of hand F2P, P2W and heavy cash shops ?....well, maybe you are one of the totally free players that jumped on the mmo band wagon because its one of the only ways to get something for free !

 

Yet we see thousands of post, post after post of how everyone hates every mmo......... Are you so blind to not know that developers are telling you how to play ? 

 

Do you pay for things you don't want ? do you play games you don't like ?

they're not forcing anyone to do anything. Like ppl have told you those features are in games because people are paying for them. If no one liked them and it was all the devs forcing it on people...the games would be shut down.

People ask for easy by playing longer and paying longer for games that are. They ask for it by quitting games that aren't. You don't have to say you want something...no one cares what you say. Players "talk" with their wallet and their wallet says people enjoy winning.

People are like cats. When they die, you get a new one.

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