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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » [Poll] Which of these events related to pvpers and pvers happens more often and why?

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53 posts found
  Darwa

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/04/04
Posts: 2165

7/06/13 8:28:59 AM#41
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by darwa
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by darwa

Definitely the latter.

PvE can exist perfectly well without PvP, but the reverse has proven (almost) impossible to achieve in an MMO thus far.

No one questioned whether it can work or not. The question was which complaint scenario is more common.

I said nothing with regards to it working or not.

I directly answered the question and provided my reasoning.

Read it again once you've woken up a bit ;)

"PvE can exist perfectly well without PvP, but the reverse has proven (almost) impossible to achieve in an MMO thus far."

Then I didn't get the point of that statement. Whether something does or doesn't work and how it does or doesn't work is irrelevant to the frequency of complaints on the matter. If anything, your statement is the reason why your answer should be the former, as people don't complain about a working system, but will complain when they feel the system is broken and should be changed to suit them, despite how near-impossible it is to achieve.

Still not woken up yet?

"Whether something does or doesn't work and how it does or doesn't work is irrelevant to the frequency of complaints on the matter"

Of course it isn't irrelevant. If something works, then there will be fewer complaints. That's far from being irrelevant. You even go on to confirm that it's relevant in your following sentence!

Again, I should point out to you that I made no mention of anything regarding whether it works or not. Please stop reading that into my words.

As you're arguing against something that wasn't even said, and then refusing to acknowledge, despite my affirmation, that there was no mention of 'working' and then following it up by contradicting yourself, I'm afraid I see no point in responding to you again unless you wish to discuss that I said as oppose to what I didn't, for I have no desire to derail the thread in such a manner.

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3229

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

7/06/13 8:29:12 AM#42

It seems to me that the #1 complaint is "class balance" which typically comes from the PvP players. I could be mistaken.

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2794

There... are... four... lights!

7/06/13 8:32:57 AM#43
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

It seems to me that the #1 complaint is "class balance" which typically comes from the PvP players. I could be mistaken.

Yeah, and it's usually in the form of "class X just killed me, it can't be, it's OP and needs to be nerfed".

The general attitude of those players is "everything I can kill is properly balanced, but everything that kills me is overpowered".

;-)

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  Antiquated

Novice Member

Joined: 3/08/13
Posts: 479

7/06/13 8:39:35 AM#44

"Why do I have to level up at all? Why can't we start at the cap? etc."

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12386

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Project Gorgon, and Combat Arms

7/06/13 8:43:57 AM#45
Originally posted by darwa
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by darwa
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by darwa

Definitely the latter.

PvE can exist perfectly well without PvP, but the reverse has proven (almost) impossible to achieve in an MMO thus far.

No one questioned whether it can work or not. The question was which complaint scenario is more common.

I said nothing with regards to it working or not.

I directly answered the question and provided my reasoning.

Read it again once you've woken up a bit ;)

"PvE can exist perfectly well without PvP, but the reverse has proven (almost) impossible to achieve in an MMO thus far."

Then I didn't get the point of that statement. Whether something does or doesn't work and how it does or doesn't work is irrelevant to the frequency of complaints on the matter. If anything, your statement is the reason why your answer should be the former, as people don't complain about a working system, but will complain when they feel the system is broken and should be changed to suit them, despite how near-impossible it is to achieve.

Still not woken up yet?

"Whether something does or doesn't work and how it does or doesn't work is irrelevant to the frequency of complaints on the matter"

Of course it isn't irrelevant. If something works, then there will be fewer complaints. That's far from being irrelevant. You even go on to confirm that it's relevant in your following sentence!

Again, I should point out to you that I made no mention of anything regarding whether it works or not. Please stop reading that into my words.

As you're arguing against something that wasn't even said, and then refusing to acknowledge, despite my affirmation, that there was no mention of 'working' and then following it up by contradicting yourself, I'm afraid I see no point in responding to you again unless you wish to discuss that I said as oppose to what I didn't, for I have no desire to derail the thread in such a manner.

  1. Enough with the awake digs. Try to be constructive.
  2. The yellow lines are amusing.
  3. "Of course it isn't irrelevant. If something works, then there will be fewer complaints."  Never work customer support for an MMO. :)

Have a great morning.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Shadanwolf

Novice Member

Joined: 6/13/10
Posts: 1875

7/06/13 8:53:42 AM#46

I would love to see this same type of question about having games include console compatibility.

 

For example

"How many people who have a PC and a console demand a game be playable on a console" ?

  ghorgos

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/23/10
Posts: 129

7/06/13 8:55:19 AM#47
Originally posted by maccarthur2004

From what i saw in the mmos i played, the behavior of joining a game and asking changes to it  cater better to you instead of choosing well a game or server before joining or adapting yourself to the game, is seen more in pvers than pvpers.

Why that happens?

This comes from the general lack of quality games or the lack of certain features in most games. People join certain games because theese games do have certain mechanics, that no other (good) game has though the same game might have aspects they don't like.  Lets take Archage as an example. It offers same rare features for pve players that might realy attract(like the housing, farming, trading) them to the game even if they hate pvp. In addition they might believe they can live with the pvp. Once joined the game and played for a while they notice the pvp is even more dominant than they thought and get frustrated but being a part of the community they don't just leave but try to change the game into a direction they would like more. that "trying to change" is something most individuals do within their communities. Itss not confined to mmo's its part of everything within rl as well(from decorating your house to establishing/changing laws for your country).

 

The question who tries this more often is very depedant on individual perception. Personally i've seen more pvp'er trying to increase pvp aspects of a game than pve'er trying to reduce the pvp aspects of a pvp game. As for pve content in general its more difficult as both pve and pvp players always want more or changed pve-content.

 

Originally posted by maccarthur2004

My opinion: for some still unknows reason, the  pvp that occurs in the open world is seen by many players as a thing "unecessary" and thus liable to remotion, while the pve isn't seen that way even by the pvpers.

That is because forced pvp and forced pve is not the same. I'll try an analogy:

You are forced to work, type of work would correspond to pve/pvp, for this example 40h a week

forced pve: You need to work 40h but you decide about at what time you start working, how long, your breaks...

forced pvp: You need to work and (within certain limits) your boss decides about your working hours

 

As a player you have control over the pve. You need a break? Just head to a safe spot and thats it(solo-play, group-play is of corse more restricted but your whole group could do it). With forced pvp you don't have that control unless you log out and even that has restrictions(and logging ut because you just need 5mins for some RL issue sucks).   

Another point is there are far more pve players that don't want pvp than pvp players that hate pve. This fact alone creates a difference.

  Vorthanion

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1921

7/08/13 6:10:38 PM#48
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by craftseeker
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by darwa

Definitely the latter.

PvE can exist perfectly well without PvP, but the reverse has proven (almost) impossible to achieve in an MMO thus far.

Planet Side 2

I am going to need enlightening of the PvE content of Planet SIde 2.

As a PvE player I saw FFA PvP with ray guns said "not for me" and have ignored it ever since. 

That's not the purpose of darwa's post darwa stated, "PvE can exist perfectly well without PvP, but the reverse has proven (almost) impossible to achieve in an MMO thus far." I'm simply telling him at least one game that fits this category. The game works perfectly fine without PvE.

I believe that was in the context of a MMORPG, whereas Planetside 2 is a MMOFPS.

  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

7/08/13 6:18:40 PM#49

I have witnessed both cases in different MMORPGs before but the former is far more prevalent than the latter in my experience.

Most people who  are PvE exclusive will just avoid PvP centric games or servers or leave if they were misinformed of the gaems nature

PvPers however infest every game and demand it change to suit them.This may or may not be due to the lack of PvP centric MMO of their liking existing to date or may just be they feel every game should cater to them.

  Banquetto

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/06/09
Posts: 1028

7/10/13 3:57:29 AM#50

Definitely the latter. Even games which were obviously always intended to be PvE-focused like LOTRO are infested by whiny PvPers.

  Adalwulff

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/18/10
Posts: 1191

"I am not the light, or the darkness, but the twilight in between"

7/10/13 4:48:07 AM#51
Originally posted by DocBrody
PvP MMO? where?

 

Exactly!

PvE players keep whining about all the PvP MMOs....where the heck are they!!

  Tierless

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2114

joie de vivre

7/10/13 8:49:50 AM#52

How many quality PVP MMOs have we ever seen?

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  Rusque

Elite Member

Joined: 6/08/10
Posts: 1745

7/10/13 9:09:23 AM#53
Originally posted by Tierless

How many quality PVP MMOs have we ever seen?

How many quality PvE MMOs have we ever seen?

If you're going to discount all the PvP based mmos because they've not "quality" then why not do the same for PvE mmos?

 

As for the OP, pvpers go to a pve game and complain incessantly about . . . well . . . everything. I don't know how often PvE players willingly download and play a PvP mmo? So the people complaining about lack of PvE in a PvP MMO are probably also PvPers who happen to feel like some PvE sprinkled in.

PvPers cry about any class or ability that hurts them, they cry because they don't have rewards, they cry because they do have rewards, they cry when pvp is random and devolves into gank squads or one large guild facerolling everyone else, they cry when not enough people are playing, they cry when pvp is instanced or e-sport style, they cry when it isn't fair. PvPers just cry constantly about every aspect.

I do think MMO's need some pvp to have longevity, but it needs to be separate from PvE and left alone. Let it be unbalanced, let it be silly. PvPers ruin more games than anyone or anything else. Class homogenization? Thank you pvpers. Nerfing interesting flavorful abilities? Thank you pvpers. Nerfing fun like climbing and exploration due to exploiting things like roofs and hiding inside of rocks? Thank you pvpers. Requiring a different set of gear for pvp because "pvpers shouldn't have to pve to get the best gear"? Thank you pvpers.

An MMO should be first and foremost a world, not a pvp deathmatch. Basically what pvpers want, is a counter-strike map the size of a large MMO world with swords and spells (because they refuse to go play EVE regardless of how amazing they keep saying it is since it has space ships and not swords).

 

If asked, I will always say that I'm a PvEers first. But I do love pvp, but I only enjoy pvp if I'm fighting people who know that I'm about to fight them and are ready for it. Not if they're busy fighting a mob, not if they're gathering some wood, not if they're minding their own business. Not if it's 10 of my buddies just stomping some solo or small group. Not if they're lower level. I want the competition, because I want to know that I beat someone that was trying, that was ready. Otherwise my victory is hollow.

If you oblierate a 3 year old at chess, are you impressed with yourself? Do you feel satisfaction? No, it's meaningless. That's why Usain Bolt doesn't race against fat Susan from the reception desk, because winning a gold medal when she's your opponent doesn't mean anything.

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