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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » [Poll] Which of these events related to pvpers and pvers happens more often and why?

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53 posts found
  ego13

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/24/04
Posts: 287

Hell is other people. - Sartre

7/05/13 11:03:09 PM#21
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by darwa

Definitely the latter.

PvE can exist perfectly well without PvP, but the reverse has proven (almost) impossible to achieve in an MMO thus far.

Planet Side 2

You're being ridiculous.  It's quite obvious that the reference is to MMORPGs in general and not persistent FPS's. 

 

The only one to *try* and tackle this will be CU (if they pull it off, it'll be great but I doubt it).

 

For the one claiming PVP'ers were whining about getting ganked, that's a PERFECT example of a PvE'er on a PvP server whining....no real PvP'er whines about getting ganked, they strategize and retaliate.

Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.

  Mtibbs1989

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2867

7/05/13 11:04:19 PM#22
Originally posted by craftseeker
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by craftseeker
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by darwa

Definitely the latter.

PvE can exist perfectly well without PvP, but the reverse has proven (almost) impossible to achieve in an MMO thus far.

Planet Side 2

I am going to need enlightening of the PvE content of Planet SIde 2.

As a PvE player I saw FFA PvP with ray guns said "not for me" and have ignored it ever since. 

That's not the purpose of darwa's post darwa stated, "PvE can exist perfectly well without PvP, but the reverse has proven (almost) impossible to achieve in an MMO thus far." I'm simply telling him at least one game that fits this category. The game works perfectly fine without PvE.

I stand corrected, Planet SIde 2 is a good example of PvP without PvE and is doing well enough to be called a success.

What about Defiance would this meet the criteria? 

Ermm as a game that plays well without PvE or as a game that plays without PvP?


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Mtibbs1989

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2867

7/05/13 11:07:02 PM#23
Originally posted by Cirin
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by darwa

Definitely the latter.

PvE can exist perfectly well without PvP, but the reverse has proven (almost) impossible to achieve in an MMO thus far.

Planet Side 2

You're being ridiculous.  It's quite obvious that the reference is to MMORPGs in general and not persistent FPS's. 

 

The only one to *try* and tackle this will be CU (if they pull it off, it'll be great but I doubt it).

 

For the one claiming PVP'ers were whining about getting ganked, that's a PERFECT example of a PvE'er on a PvP server whining....no real PvP'er whines about getting ganked, they strategize and retaliate.

I'm not being ridiculous. Planet Side 2 is an MMO you can even RP in it if you feel like it. It'll just be very different from the standard RP. The only person who's being ridiculous is the person trying to shut down the 'sole game' that works perfectly fine without PvE. Muahaha I totally went there Planet Side 2 is an MMOFPSRPG!


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  ozmono

Novice Member

Joined: 3/12/06
Posts: 1045

7/05/13 11:07:51 PM#24
I'm playing Darkfall Unholy Wars at the moment and the amount of whining that the game has been ruined by vets that cannot "gank noobs" because of the addition safe zones is incredible.
  craftseeker

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/11/09
Posts: 650

7/05/13 11:08:32 PM#25
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by craftseeker
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by craftseeker
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by darwa

Definitely the latter.

PvE can exist perfectly well without PvP, but the reverse has proven (almost) impossible to achieve in an MMO thus far.

Planet Side 2

I am going to need enlightening of the PvE content of Planet SIde 2.

As a PvE player I saw FFA PvP with ray guns said "not for me" and have ignored it ever since. 

That's not the purpose of darwa's post darwa stated, "PvE can exist perfectly well without PvP, but the reverse has proven (almost) impossible to achieve in an MMO thus far." I'm simply telling him at least one game that fits this category. The game works perfectly fine without PvE.

I stand corrected, Planet SIde 2 is a good example of PvP without PvE and is doing well enough to be called a success.

What about Defiance would this meet the criteria? 

Ermm as a game that plays well without PvE or as a game that plays without PvP?

Emmm <scratches head> not sure for me Defiance comes under the heading "FFA PvP with ray guns" so I have ignored it. 

But if there is only one exemplar of a PvP only MMORPG  (out of what 600 or so) I think perhaps the "(almost) impossible to achieve" has to stand.

  Mtibbs1989

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2867

7/05/13 11:09:37 PM#26
Originally posted by craftseeker
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by craftseeker
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by craftseeker
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by darwa

Definitely the latter.

PvE can exist perfectly well without PvP, but the reverse has proven (almost) impossible to achieve in an MMO thus far.

Planet Side 2

I am going to need enlightening of the PvE content of Planet SIde 2.

As a PvE player I saw FFA PvP with ray guns said "not for me" and have ignored it ever since. 

That's not the purpose of darwa's post darwa stated, "PvE can exist perfectly well without PvP, but the reverse has proven (almost) impossible to achieve in an MMO thus far." I'm simply telling him at least one game that fits this category. The game works perfectly fine without PvE.

I stand corrected, Planet SIde 2 is a good example of PvP without PvE and is doing well enough to be called a success.

What about Defiance would this meet the criteria? 

Ermm as a game that plays well without PvE or as a game that plays without PvP?

Emmm not sure for me Defiance comes under the heading "FFA PvP with ray guns" so I have ignored it. 

But if there is only one exemplar of a PvP only MMORPG  (out of what 600 or so) I think perhaps the "(almost) impossible to achieve" has to stand.

 There's Planet Side 1; that makes two MMO's in the genre :3 It's truly hard to say. Not many developers attempt to make a PvP only game. So it's rather hard to actually conclude if PvP only games can work without PvE. I personally would say yes they can look at the vast majority of WAR. While it has PvE in it no one really does it. The game is centrallized around PvP. Even DAOC is focused around PvP with PvE elements. I suppose we'll have to wait and see the results of CU (Camelot Unchained) to actually start judging the possibility of pure PvP games.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  ozmono

Novice Member

Joined: 3/12/06
Posts: 1045

7/05/13 11:12:18 PM#27
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by ozmono
I picked the latter from my own experiences. When the former happens though, PVPers get very abusive. Obviously not all PVPers do but most of the "hardcore" PVP communities I've seen have been very hostile towards opposing views.

What else would you expect from a play style that is all about hostility towards other gamers.  The kinds of gamers that attracts are likely to be very vocal and very hostile.  It's kind of funny, but when I think of a pvper, I think of them as a typically rude New Yorker.

That did cross my mind as I wrote. I play PVP games, it's actually a huge selling point for me. I don't consider myself rude or hostile. That said I still recognize that alot are and that the playstyle can be considered a breeding ground for such behaviour.

  laokoko

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/14/09
Posts: 1937

7/06/13 2:14:28 AM#28

I vote for the second.

I just look it as this.  PvEr rarely play pvp games.

But pvper still play games like GW2 for their structure pvp or WvW.  I'm not sure who whine more, PvEr or PvPer.  I think they whine as much as each other.

  Darwa

The Furniture

Joined: 7/04/04
Posts: 2207

7/06/13 4:39:15 AM#29
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by darwa

Definitely the latter.

PvE can exist perfectly well without PvP, but the reverse has proven (almost) impossible to achieve in an MMO thus far.

Planet Side 2

Gotta disagree with you there mate.

As far as I'm concerned, PS2 is more FPS than MMO. Yeah, I know the definitions, but I see barely any social aspect in PS2 with little more that 'Let's pwn x' or 'OMG WTF N00B' seemingly being macroed to most player's keypads, whereas an MMO is traditionally a more social game with higher interactions.

Regardless, I did use the word "almost" and the popularity of PS2 does rather enforce my point. In fact, Darkfall or Mortal Online would have been better choices.

Of course, you're entitled to your own opinion etc, but I think you missed the target here ;)

  anemo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/24/10
Posts: 707

7/06/13 7:45:17 AM#30

Have you looking at the suggestion forums of any game with "enough" PvPer.

It gets utterly filled with rants about imbalances.

Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.

"There are still vast swaths of our planet's surface in which it's surprisingly easy to lose things. Even a ship the size of a large building." Richard Fisher

  Gardavsshade

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/27/11
Posts: 663

7/06/13 8:05:16 AM#31
Originally posted by Novusod

The second option may happen a little bit in every MMO. But it is really the first one that has ruined every PvP centric MMO ever created to the point that the PvP centric MMOs are now practically extinct.

Whiny PvEers are the problem. There are dozens of PvE MMOs but people will go an whine about the PVP in EVE.

That's because EVE is the ONLY GOOD SPACE MMO in existance. STO doesn't count, as most don't consider it good.... especially the "Space" part pf STO (Space is far too small, it doesn't feel like Space at all, rather it feels like a Lobby).

So EVE attracts Players that want a good Space MMO whether they be PvP or PvE enthusiasts. Players want a good Space experience even if it means they play a PvP game they don't want to play. Someday a Dev Team will realize this and make a great Space PvE MMO and then perhaps the Players of EVE won't have to hear all the whining from the PvEers.

Back to OP topic.... I hang out in a couple of PvE MMOs, and YES I see in chat many times the PvP players wondering where the PvP fun is or wondering why the PvEers won't go into the PvP zones... all the while making the same mistake PvPers accuse us for.... PvPers should know it's stupid to make a character on a PvE server and then complain about no PvP.

Example: About 2 weeks ago in Rift I was in Silverwood Forest zone (Guardian faction)on a PVE server.... doing quests, hunting critters for hides, enjoying the game.... and along comes 2 characters (Defiant Faction) that were trying to goad some of us into attacking them.... and then they complain that we are no fun and anal...because none of us took the bait and we did not attack of course. I just laughed in their face. What idiots.

This is why I have said for YEARS that I believe that MMOs should be made either for PvP or for PvE, but not for both. Two different customer groups, two different sets of "features" for their MMO, two different mindsets.

I have nothing against PvP in a MMO, I support Devs making PvP MMOs. Just make me a PvE MMO where I can go play and I am happy. (and they do).

(Note: I used to play EVE, now I do not. I am not one of them whiny PvEers asking for more PvE in EVE. I know where I do not belong.)

 

  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8857

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

7/06/13 8:11:37 AM#32
Who cares, no matter what game there is allways someone whining.

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  immodium

Elite Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1401

7/06/13 8:16:10 AM#33
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Who cares, no matter what game there is allways someone whining.

I agree.

IMO PvE players 'whine' more about content being to hard. PvP players 'whine' about PvE getting more attention than PvP.

But like Lord.Bachus said, who the hell cares.

  kaiser3282

Tipster

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 2691

7/06/13 8:32:06 AM#34

#1 from what Ive noticed.

 

DFUW is a prime example. It went from DFO, known for being a hardcore FFA PvP game to DFUW, a game where you can max out a character without ever leaving the safe zones yet people still whine that there should be PvE servers.

  Loktofeit

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12405

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

7/06/13 8:48:30 AM#35
Originally posted by darwa

Definitely the latter.

PvE can exist perfectly well without PvP, but the reverse has proven (almost) impossible to achieve in an MMO thus far.

No one questioned whether it can work or not. The question was which complaint scenario is more common.

 

My experience has been the same as Kazuhiro's:

"In terms of what I've personally seen, the first is VASTLY more common. I rarely ever see pvpers complaining about a lack of pvp in a pve game, but I see pve'ers complain night and day about pvp games having no or little pve in complete and total safety.

Which is suprising, considering how many pve games there are, and how few pvp ones there are."

 

It's rare you'll see someone in chat complain about a lack of PVP because almost every MMO has a PVP zone or PVP server. However, complaints about PvE safety in PVP MMOs are incessant due to either unrealistic expectations on the part of the PvE player and poor design on the part of the devs.

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Four0Six

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/18/11
Posts: 1161

7/06/13 9:01:46 AM#36

I didn't vote.

Here is why: We as players need to be more secure. We as players need to stop demanding changes to games to cater more to our play style. Again, "Don't like it, Don't play it.". That is my mantra.

Frankly I am sick of this attitude, which I see EVERYWHERE, that everything needs to be all inclusive to everyone. Seriously. Get a grip people. Some like hot dogs, some don't. Luckily for us there are several types of hot dogs, beef, pork, turkey, I'm sure if you looked hard enough a vegan option. Plus, if that still doesn't please you have a hamburger. This is my point.

Stop the complaining and log off. Go find a different game. Go find a different hobby. Go make different friends. Be more secure and "Do what cha like.". Stop trying to change what I like.

  Darwa

The Furniture

Joined: 7/04/04
Posts: 2207

7/06/13 9:02:34 AM#37
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by darwa

Definitely the latter.

PvE can exist perfectly well without PvP, but the reverse has proven (almost) impossible to achieve in an MMO thus far.

No one questioned whether it can work or not. The question was which complaint scenario is more common.

 

I said nothing with regards to it working or not.

I directly answered the question and provided my reasoning.

Read it again once you've woken up a bit ;)

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2890

There... are... four... lights!

7/06/13 9:03:03 AM#38
I can't help thinking the results of the poll are NOT what the OP expected when he posted it...

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  jdlamson75

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/27/08
Posts: 928

There's some lovely filth down here.

7/06/13 9:08:40 AM#39
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Who cares, no matter what game there is allways someone whining.

And on MMORPG.com, we have the special extra added bonus of witnessing whining from both sides during development.  Pre-alpha?  Who cares!  We're gonna bitch, moan, and complain like the game is our spouse!  Yeah! 

 

edit 1:  I didn't vote.

 

edit 2:  You should read the last two sentences in Denis Leary's rant voice.

  Loktofeit

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12405

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

7/06/13 9:14:01 AM#40
Originally posted by darwa
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by darwa

Definitely the latter.

PvE can exist perfectly well without PvP, but the reverse has proven (almost) impossible to achieve in an MMO thus far.

No one questioned whether it can work or not. The question was which complaint scenario is more common.

I said nothing with regards to it working or not.

I directly answered the question and provided my reasoning.

Read it again once you've woken up a bit ;)

"PvE can exist perfectly well without PvP, but the reverse has proven (almost) impossible to achieve in an MMO thus far."

Then I didn't get the point of that statement. Whether something does or doesn't work and how it does or doesn't work is irrelevant to the frequency of complaints on the matter. If anything, your statement is the reason why your answer should be the former, as people don't complain about a working system, but will complain when they feel the system is broken and should be changed to suit them, despite how near-impossible it is to achieve.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

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