Trending Games | World of Warcraft | Shards | Neverwinter | Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

    Facebook Twitter YouTube
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:3,027,758 Users Online:0
Games:843  Posts:6,483,494
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online AD2460 ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Ninja Anime Pirates Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord 2 Archlord X Armored Warfare Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Bionic Marine Command Online Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blackguards 2 Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodborne Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chroma Squad Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crowfall Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Heart Online Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dying Light Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthlock: Festival of Magic Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Fable Legends Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
GRAV GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods Rush Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Hand of Fate Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Immune Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online Kill Strain King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Grimrock 2 Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lords of the Fallen 2 Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Hunter 4: Ultimate Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Necropolis Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Nova Genesis Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Overwatch Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Rebel Galaxy Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Chronicles Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Conflict Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Coast Legends Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Banner Saga 2 The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Trapped Dead: Lockdown Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Triad Wars Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utherous Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warriors World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles 3D Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

News & Features Discussion  » [Column] General: Up to 90% of MMO Real Estate is Wasted

9 Pages First « 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 » Last Search
169 posts found

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

7/06/13 4:14:47 AM#81
Originally posted by Letsinod
This is where EQ1 got it so right.  There were many level ranges of mobs in each zone.  Spectres to docks anyone?  Giants also.  You would often have high level toons leveling next to newbs in some areas.

Dead on. There should be variation in zones, they shouldn't be homogenous.

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011


Novice Member

Joined: 7/06/13
Posts: 6

7/06/13 5:18:30 AM#82

I remember my first MMO starter Zone. First MMO I played was EQ2, loved it, still sub'd now. wish the zone was still around tbh, the music just entering the zone gives me nostalgia! The biggest thing I remember from the zone was if I killed 10,000 goblins i'd get the title "destroyer of goblins". can't remember how long it took but I earned that title, at lvl 10!! 10,000 goblins dead at my hands, I felt awesome.

2 other memories stick out in my mind. the first time I seen a dragon (raid lvl mob)! My heart was racing and it was the most epic battle I have ever had!, loved every minute! The second was when my guild (Sabaki on Najena sever) killed a raid mob and I won the epic drop from it, was so awesome I actually wrote some fan fiction for it!

Those days are gone now and I will never get them back, not from any future MMO or MMO since. It was my introduction to MMO's and I feel that nothing will ever compare to those memories, no matter how hard a raid boss is or how epic a piece of gear is. those first moments will never be relived. Tho I will keep looking for them, continue to strive for them, never to relive them. That's what modern MMO's are trying to achieve, and will never reach!!


Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/01/08
Posts: 47

7/06/13 5:44:59 AM#83

Have to agree with the post. Looking at my fave mmo age of conan. You start at an area with 3 instance quest zones and stay there till around level 23 (if not sooner leaving). Then you can choose from 4! areas all with same level cap. Gateway, Wild Lands, Connarch and khopschef. Funcom tries with quests to send you to all 4 area but not needed. Strange enough after reaching level 40 it is allmost 1 area at a time untill reaching level 80 when the raiding starts or doing some grindquests solo at khitai.

Like Mark Kern mentions, do they not think before making leveling zones?

Now most players do level themself untill level 40 because of the options and after that they powerlevel till level 80 because of bored of the 40 - 80 standard road.

And most new mmo have the same problem. Neverwinter, marvel heroes (if you can call that a mmo). Standard road. Thats why I look at teso, split starting zones make it maybe fun to level some more chars. Some like the leveling and some focus on the endgame.




Advanced Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 3922

7/06/13 7:14:27 AM#84
Originally posted by pantheron
I like GW2's system, since it scales you down to a zone, you can go anywhere, but in the lower level zones, youstill feel powerful, which is extremely important, but you don't just run over all the content.  I don't really see this as a bad solution like this guy seems to. i mean, you STILL have  all your gear which is higher leveled, and all your skills, and all your traits. i find it pretty satisfying.

     I agree.. I think GW2 does the best job in transforming vertical growth games into horizontal growth.. There have been many times my lvl 80 toon can get owned in a lvl 30 zone if I'm careless..  That was one thing I loved about EQ1 tho in their first 3 expansions, was the ability to give content at every level from 1-60.. There was a lot more 1-60 content in those expansion, then just top tier stuff..  For me, a hybrid of EQ1 expansions using GW2's de-leveling would be a great start..


Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/06
Posts: 879

7/06/13 7:26:43 AM#85

You don't actually need levels in a game but for an RPG we seek to improve our character . We do this buy obtaining better gear usually .

But with better gear we then need harder challenges or else it becomes too easy and then boring.


So if the game can throw harder and harder content at us dynamically , it could be something simple like you get a mission based on gear score and we go into an area which spawns the mission . Like how RIFTS appear in that game I guess .


Advanced Member

Joined: 6/27/11
Posts: 749

7/06/13 7:31:42 AM#86

"Up to 90% of MMO Real Estate is Wasted"...

No, "up to 90% of current Players don't adequately appreciate what the Devs created in their MMOs".

Yep, now that correct.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/14/06
Posts: 250

7/06/13 7:31:42 AM#87
Originally posted by Letsinod
This is where EQ1 got it so right.  There were many level ranges of mobs in each zone.  Spectres to docks anyone?  Giants also.  You would often have high level toons leveling next to newbs in some areas.

Agreed. This design also added an element of fear and respect for a zone when you might get stomped by a sand giant or a Griffin 20 levels higher than your group.


Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 13657

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

7/06/13 8:02:49 AM#88

Skill-based and social MMOs (ATITD, Puzzle Pirates, EVE, UO) don't have this problem. The author attributes the problem to level-based zones rather than to the shoehorning of a flawed 12-14 level, smallgroup system into a 60+ level massively multiplayer multi-group environment.

"Dynamic content and more horizontal, rather than vertical, progression is one way to do this. Imagine a world that knows what players are in a zone, and creates encounters for those players specifically, at their level of challenge."

This removes choice. More importantly, it either breaks scaling or requires convoluted rulesets to allow for it. Something learned from Dungeon Runners and games of its kind is that scaling tends to result in lack of feeling of progression. If the goal is to go the other direction and simply up the mob and loot tables in a zone, then we're just one step away from ProgressQuest, with characters that can stand in a single spot and just cycle their cool downs over and over - the ultimate faceroll gameplay.


There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein


Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/24/10
Posts: 779

7/06/13 8:56:59 AM#89



Ryozom(lesser extent, high level mobs are in low level areas however there are a few areas W/O low level mobs)

Aion(Much lesser extent, as higher level areas are in the sky of low level areas)


Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.

"There are still vast swaths of our planet's surface in which it's surprisingly easy to lose things. Even a ship the size of a large building." Richard Fisher


Novice Member

Joined: 10/22/10
Posts: 78

7/06/13 9:49:23 AM#90
Originally posted by Gardavsshade

"Up to 90% of MMO Real Estate is Wasted"...

No, "up to 90% of current Players don't adequately appreciate what the Devs created in their MMOs".

Yep, now that correct.

I'm going to have to call shenanigans on that one. What's your idea of adequate appreciation? Take a game like TERA for instance. You'll go to a new zone, be in awe of its beauty and then never return to that area again. Great. That's the inherent design flaw with practically every themepark MMORPG I've ever played. It's not the consumer's fault that there's such an emphasis on linearity and a disposable game world. 


Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/25/07
Posts: 711

7/06/13 10:14:50 AM#91

I am laughing to badly at his estimated most MMO's cost 100 million to make.  I'm sorry but SWTOR and WAR were both over that amount, to my knowledge not other game has been close to that amount to make  (and I maybe off on WAR, but was pretty sure it was over 100 to make). (Defiance for example is 50-60 million, so I would love to see his sources for all these mid-range MMO's costing 100 million.

Is he saying Firefall has cost of 100million to make?  If he is, then would of been better dividing it up, splitting it into stocks etc and never working a day in their life because frankly the game is never going to recoup that much.

Now I do agree with that assessment, but it is easily fixed by mixing in parts of zones that have different level ranges.  Areas that have an off path that is higher in level.  Rare spawns in small areas that are actually harder enemies (Maybe some ruins you wander through that are level 10-15ish.  But the further you get it levels up dramatically ending with a group or multi-group boss that needs to be taken down.

The other way is to make levels different and not the end all.   Although you will be more powerful, small enemies in large hordes could still overwhelm you.  Linear leveling is an approach for example that could utilize sure your level 60, but beware of 5 level 30's.


Age of Conan Correspondent

Joined: 6/12/06
Posts: 95

True freedom only exists in abstract thinking.

7/06/13 11:26:34 AM#92
Nobody has, or will do level design as good as Star Wars Galaxies. There were no levels, most of the worlds had real estate that players could actively use for not just player housing but resource gathering as well. This model was used almost a decade ago and no game since then has tried it, much less improved upon it (it could be improved to become a pvp paradise game with dynamic events threatening player cities etc) But for some reason, although I have a lot of respect for Red5, companies choose to ignore the gems of game play that were in SWG that could easily be adapted to today's mmos.


Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/31/09
Posts: 2441

7/06/13 12:31:02 PM#93

If other MMOs are supposedly wasting millions on their world content (all of which are much larger than Firefall's) then Firefall must be wasting millions in the constant redesigning of the whole game. Right?

Where's the article about that?


Novice Member

Joined: 1/22/09
Posts: 555

There are 2 kinds of people in the world: those who don't like dragons and those who enjoy living.

7/06/13 1:01:54 PM#94
This article describes an obvious point like, 10 years too late.

My blog is a continuing story of what MMO's should be like.


Novice Member

Joined: 1/16/13
Posts: 587

7/06/13 1:42:45 PM#95

This sounds a lot like FireFall will have a boring world with limited zones.  This article sounds like an excuse as to why there won't be many zones in the game.  Developers do this often and try to point out why a weakness in their game is actually a strength.  Just like when GW2 stated "that the whole game is endgame", we all know how that turned out.

A big diverse world makes a game significantly better even if players don't visit it often, especially in "MMO'ish" games.  In the real world I love my town, I don't go to every part of it, but doesn't mean I don't want it there.

Limited zones makes a game feel like a lobby.  Size is not the issue, it is the diversity and uniqueness of each zone.  If this isn't there in an MMO, people will get bored quickly.




Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/01/12
Posts: 229

7/06/13 1:51:37 PM#96
 It's a great point, so much space gets wasted. I always thought that  having separate servers for where you (the player) is at the story arc. a newbie server, then a leveling server then an end game server. All the servers would be separated by "Time" thus all areas of the map would be usable and some of the annoying aspects of games like twinking and ganking wouldn't exist.

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 8332

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

7/06/13 1:57:40 PM#97

Mark is dead accurate on his whole assessment but since i have seen nobody able to fix it,i would have to state incompetence   no other reason.

He is right devs separate players further and further away creating only more and more high level zones.

There are several ways to fix it and it really is very easy,hence i say incompetence.

To start with you create a sub class system,like FFXI's not like other TREE based games.This keeps players coming back to level new jobs.Then of course you need many classes to keep that turning for years.You need to make sure each level lasts,if they are too quick then none of the game matters,not the cool gear you  because your going to out level it too quickly.It also makes low level crafts a waste of time.

Ok so sub class is the start of the design.Next you create a REASON for players to come back.Just the simple is to create crafts that utilize all the zone and not just crafts that relate the tier to that certain zone.Drops,you can create an imbue system or a way to upgrade weapons and gear that involves going back and searching through out all zones.If you make the reason viable and enticing enough players will enjoy doing it.

you can expand your thinking outside the box.Example give player an overpowering weapon skill or spell but they have to farm the items to trigger it in again all zones not just the related tier as that again separates zones and players.

How about an elaborate housing system.You might need wood from tier 1 ,glass fibre from tier 2,porcelain from tier 3,you get the drift.

Another super easy way to keep old zones looking new is to constantly add to them or change how they look.Then of course you don't NEED to make a tier 1 zone only have tier 1 mobs ,it could have tier 5/6/10 and tier 1 mobs .

Bottom line is if these producers could think even a slight bit,they could improve their game design a lot.Also i disagree with Mark's assessment of 3 million a zone,i know of single people who make gorgeous zones all by themselves in a month or two.So even if you only had a team of 5 people making zones,you should have plenty of them by time 5 years comes around.There lies another problem,i doubt very much these developers are spending the time on these games,more like a year of hiring and thinking and looking for investors,then they claim they spent 2 years already working on it.
Samoan Diamond


Novice Member

Joined: 2/03/13
Posts: 166

7/06/13 2:52:19 PM#98
Originally posted by Hardsun79

"Everything has to be placed by hand: mountains, roads, caves, dungeons, valleys, trees, rocks, points of interest, themed/unique monsters and even grass! I would argue that zone creation is about 70% or so of an MMO’s total cost to develop including features, programming, art and world design. That means, on a 100M budget (typical for a mid to top end MMO these days), and a 20 zone game, you are spending about 3.5 million dollars a zone."


I wonder if he know about voxels and procedural generation ... with some develoopment those techs could DRAMATICALLY decrease amount of work needed to create REALLY HUGE mmo worlds.


I did wonder about that. Procedural generation with some hand optimising seems to me the way to go to create huge worlds. Placing individual items seems very labour intensive.

I sometimes make spelling and grammar errors but I don't pretend it's because I'm using a phone


Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 1391


contact me if you are seriously interested in
* C#
* making an old schoolish FPS

7/06/13 3:19:08 PM#99
Originally posted by lifesbrink
This article describes an obvious point like, 10 years too late.


its sooooo obvious..... that nobody does it?

and its too late because everybody is already doing it?  .....except for the little fact that they aren't



what a poorly thought out statement.

The End
i don't expect to like Darkfall, altho i may like it MORE than other MMOs. i know it is gonna have a very frustrating level of grind to it, even if its significantly less than most. waiting for a pure FAST action virtual world. dice rolling & character levels (even "skills") IN COMBAT should have never carried over from pencil & paper to a computer that can reasonably model 3D spaces and objects


Novice Member

Joined: 10/04/10
Posts: 53

7/06/13 4:02:52 PM#100
"Old School EQ (Pre 2002) did accomplish this. You had to go all over the world to complete quests. Your Epic quest for example made you go all over the place to complete the quest. It wasn't just the high end group & raid zones. It would be nice to see a game that returns to that concept and makes the world seem populated & life-like again."

Not just the quests but the crafting of gear and necessary items (like potions, spell scrolls, etc.) required things from the earlier content in the early game such as Silks, leathers, and ores. Of course later expansions changed this into the standard raid gear progression system we have now.   

"you level up to engage in the higher level zones as your character progress through the game. If you happen to go back to a low level zone for any reason your level downscales so the mobs in that low level map are still challenging to you (right now its kinda still easy so they could make it a lot more challenging). Once you get back to your high level zone your level goes back up. It makes perfect sense and every mmo should offer that. That means no matter how low level an area is you will always have a challenge if you happen to enter it. If new mmos dont do this in the future, they better remove leveling entirely and have horizontal progression."

This is so mind numbingly dull to me.  Without a reason to go back and farm anything there why would anyone want to go back and do the same thing over and over forever?  Its just the same old linear game play. It is a beautiful game world tho and I had fun playing through it.

"This is where EQ1 got it so right.  There were many level ranges of mobs in each zone.  Spectres to docks anyone?  Giants also.  You would often have high level toons leveling next to newbs in some areas."

The community was different at that time.  People would help each other.  Buffs, heals, ports, rezzes and other boons were needed and giving freely for the most part.  It really is going to be hard to bring that back but I think it could be done.  Just not at the profit range everyone wants to be in now.  Not sure about the cost per sq. meter, zone or whatever, but 100 mil or 50 mil per game is just ridiculous whether the beginner zones are empty or full.  Good grief...I would pay a healthy amount per month to play a game with graphics like the luclin expansion in eq if someone would make it as fun as that game was before dragonspine.

9 Pages First « 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 » Last Search