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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » Dave Georgeson Discusses How EQNext May Have Multiclasses Like FFIX/FFXIV

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182 posts found
  Dullahan

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/20/05
Posts: 705

Death to Themepark.

7/05/13 3:24:27 AM#61
Originally posted by bcbully

Do it like Wushu, you can learn all schools, but not as high a rank as someone of that school.

 

Doesn't have to be exactly like that, but it does make sense.

Oh gosh, please no.

Wushu's system would never work in a game with distinct roles, or anything with real PvE.  It was only good for Wushu because of the nature of the game, a giant fast paced PvP arena.

Played EQ, UO, DAoC, AO, WoW, EQII, Vanguard, Ryzom, Darkfall, Warhammer, Rift, MO, Tera, DFUW, Age of Wushu, NW2, ESO and many others I don't remember or care to admit.
-
Awaiting The Repopulation, and Pantheon ROTF.

Intrigued by Star Citizen and Archeage.
-
Don't be ignorant. Get an MMO education!

  Ramanadjinn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/08/11
Posts: 1123

7/05/13 3:40:57 AM#62
Originally posted by Bjelar
Replayability takes a huge hit when alts become pointless.

Depending on implementation.

If it takes 200 hours doing 4 different storylines to level 1 character to maximum in 4 professions or 50 hours each for 4 characters each doing its own different storyline there is little difference.

There is no logic in making blanket statements on features removed from all relevant systems.

  hMJem

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 468

7/05/13 4:11:08 AM#63

Only one other person mentioned this -- You think its going to be free to do all of this? When its a free to play game? Of course not.

 

They can charge money for "switching" or charge money for "learning a brand new school" I guess since people are comparing it to Rift, they'd rather charge money for learning a brand new school/art as opposed to always be paying for switching. Neverwinter charges $$ for changing specs and its atrocious

 

 

I guess their other alternative would have been 1 character per account, you pay $5 for another character slot. They probably make more money in the above method as more people would learn new schools compared to rerolling

And as others have pointed out -- This is a Sandbox game, not a PvE end-game raid on every tuesday game. While even usually I would usually say "These features? This is terrible for a themepark because it creates lazy raid design" but at this point I'm not expecting to be amazed or reliant on raids, as it seems like they are far more focused on crafting being the best way to get the best gear. (And for all we know, crafting may provide the best gear bar none in the game)

Something I wonder about though is how do you avoid newb zones being filled with zero players within months of the game launching, if there is never incentive to go back to a starting zone? 

 

Also I know people might laugh.. But is it wrong that if this is indeed true about having the abilities Dave is talking about, that it makes me want World PvP even more? It doesnt have to be non-consensual (Although under circumstances, I wouldnt mind) but atleast have zones of high value resources/mobs that are PvP enabled zones. I feel like if we have all this utility and all we use it on are PvE mobs that dont matter and building houses together, there isnt much reason for us to have all this utility as PvE endgame might have little to no impact at all on the game.

 

  Gholos

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/13
Posts: 209

7/05/13 4:32:27 AM#64

As a say in another topic, i think that one class must have a role, but doesnt it means that you can do only one thing...a warrior for example can tank or be a melee dps, but you have to respec and use another equipment (not ista switch from a role to another) i  m not against variery i m against illogical choices: for example a wizard or a rogue that can tank as a full plated warrior, a warrior that can do more ranged dps than a ranger and so on...in GW2 the game i m actualy playing there are such illogical choices: light classes that can do bunker spec (elementalist, engineer) and be more durable than a warrior that wear plate armor; guardian that should be the tank of the game that have less hp than than other classes and so on...i play a warrior in GW2 that is supposed to be a melee  and very often i have to use rifle to kill a boss.                                                                   

Well, i hope that in EQN will not such illogical things and most important thing that will be an aggro managment and taunt skill, otherwise the PvE will be boring as in GW2, without tatics and coordination.


"Brute force not work? It because you not use enought of it"
-Karg, Ogryn Bone'ead.

  H3deon

Novice Member

Joined: 5/05/13
Posts: 37

7/05/13 5:06:04 AM#65
just a guess, but when read Georgeson, instantly though oh so it will be like PS2, you go to a place and shift class - and yess all classes are free in planetside 2
  Dullahan

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/20/05
Posts: 705

Death to Themepark.

7/05/13 5:23:34 AM#66
Originally posted by H3deon
just a guess, but when read Georgeson, instantly though oh so it will be like PS2, you go to a place and shift class - and yess all classes are free in planetside 2

Thats one way to have everyone shift their EQ Next directory into the recycling bin.

Played EQ, UO, DAoC, AO, WoW, EQII, Vanguard, Ryzom, Darkfall, Warhammer, Rift, MO, Tera, DFUW, Age of Wushu, NW2, ESO and many others I don't remember or care to admit.
-
Awaiting The Repopulation, and Pantheon ROTF.

Intrigued by Star Citizen and Archeage.
-
Don't be ignorant. Get an MMO education!

  Aelious

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2258

World > Quest Progression

7/05/13 6:09:53 AM#67
I could see an overall progression system like PS2 but not as easy as getting to a terminal. There was mention of travelling to find reagents and other quips that make me think things won't be so easy in EQN.

Though if the system had you go through tasks and gain favor with class trainers I think multi-classing is doable. Add specific progression points inside each class and you could have a ton of play ahead of you. I think the more ways to play the game the better.

I also think that each class can play each role. Why not? Because D&D said so? I like D&D as much as the next nerd but limiting an RPG seems a bit silly. If I'm a Mage why can't I tank using energy fields to lessen blows and rock golems to distract the mob. If I'm a rogue why can't I life siphon to heal my group mates. I get why there is preconceived notions about certain class roles I just don't think they apply 40 years later.
  nerovipus32

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2643

7/05/13 6:37:34 AM#68
Hopefully the make it like star wars galaxies, where you could master one class and then train skills from other classes to make your character unique.  I think you had 220 skill points.
  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8121

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

7/05/13 6:39:39 AM#69

Single class, multi class, both are highly overrated..

 

I think the game would do best with a skilltree based progression

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations)
Currently playing : The Elder Scrolls Online

  nerovipus32

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2643

7/05/13 6:44:06 AM#70
  nerovipus32

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2643

7/05/13 6:49:55 AM#71
Originally posted by Selirii_Deuvlerii
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Hopefully the make it like star wars galaxies, where you could master one class and then train skills from other classes to make your character unique.  I think you had 220 skill points.
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Single class, multi class, both are highly overrated..

 

I think the game would do best with a skilltree based progression

the problem you guys are ignoring is teh fact that "open skill tree specialization" results in FOTM & independent roles THAT AREN'T fully FUNCTIONAL INDEPENDENTLY O_O

 

reduced options, flavor of the month preferred specs, it's a sh17hole of reduced choice to be a copycat of crap like Ultima & RuneScape

 

Originally posted by Ramonski7

If it's any system other than the one similar to FFXI forget it. The problem with open skill systems like the one some of you are describing is that sooner rather than later the min/maxing starts. Then you have players looking for specific skills that have good synergy with others and before long every tanks needs these skills and every healer needs those skills and all dps has to have skills that maximize damage.

 

The beauty of FFXI's job system was that only thing a player had to do was level the class and not worry about juggling skills. The skills came with the class. Also the only place you could change jobs was at your home. This gave picking a class and sub class a little weight unless your party was willing to wait for you to run back to your house to switch. Also jobs had goo synergy with several other jobs so it was not uncommon to see a WAR/MNK, WAR/SAM, WAR/THF and so on.

 

But if EQN goes an entirely different route, I just hope it's not like Rift or any other skill switching system. Keep things at the job/class level or make it like SWG. BUt if they do make it like SWG there will be no need for roles nor a trinity.

There are flavour of the month in a class system also, your class gets nerfed then it gets made op the next month. It's a joke of a system.

  Aceshighhhh

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/20/11
Posts: 186

7/05/13 6:54:28 AM#72
Originally posted by Aelious
I could see an overall progression system like PS2 but not as easy as getting to a terminal. There was mention of travelling to find reagents and other quips that make me think things won't be so easy in EQN.

Though if the system had you go through tasks and gain favor with class trainers I think multi-classing is doable. Add specific progression points inside each class and you could have a ton of play ahead of you. I think the more ways to play the game the better.

I also think that each class can play each role. Why not? Because D&D said so? I like D&D as much as the next nerd but limiting an RPG seems a bit silly. If I'm a Mage why can't I tank using energy fields to lessen blows and rock golems to distract the mob. If I'm a rogue why can't I life siphon to heal my group mates. I get why there is preconceived notions about certain class roles I just don't think they apply 40 years later.

Completely agree with this.

Although instead of switching out between a predetermined class system, I think we're more likely to see a skill based system. Since SOE is advertising this game to be a sandbox experience, it would make sense to allow any character to skill into whatever they like - with limits of course.

If someone wants to take up swords they should be able to pick up a sword and skill into it, or if they want to take up magic they could pick up a tome and skill into that - a bit similar to TES games. I feel that if this sort of system is designed right to prevent a lot of min/maxing, it would be a much more fitting design to an overall sandboxy experience.

  azarhal

Elite Member

Joined: 7/06/09
Posts: 509

7/05/13 6:56:33 AM#73

Has anyone though that maybe they are going for a freeform skill based system similar to UO, pre-NGE SWG or pretty much all the other sandboxy games out there?

They did say they wanted to make the largest sandbox game ever...

  SavageHorizon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 1429

7/05/13 6:57:12 AM#74
Originally posted by bcbully

Do it like Wushu, you can learn all schools, but not as high a rank as someone of that school.

 

Doesn't have to be exactly like that, but it does make sense.

No thanks, as much as i like AOW system i would prefer ArcheAge's system.

12O class combinations http://archeagesource.com/topic/1092-archeage-class-trees-and-skills-descriptions-cbt5-english/

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  Convo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/07/05
Posts: 154

7/05/13 7:16:09 AM#75
I think there will be a class system in EQN similar to EQ with no hard factions.  Players will be able to change classes though hard core faction grinding and learning the new class.  
  Gallus85

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 922

7/05/13 10:12:02 AM#76
Originally posted by dejoblue
Every MMO ever made has an instant respec button, the logout button. That's right, you log over to your alt and instead of warrior tank you are now cleric healer.

Of course I have to level each and every alt. Do you naysayers really think that once you get to max level they are going to just give you a button and let you switch classes without having to actually level up that class or that class's abilities? Did you really read it that way?

That's not a "Respec button".  That's making an alt.  If you pay attention to the video, Dave is basically saying that a lot of people like putting all their effort into one main character, but dislike being locked into one class.  Yes, I do think they're going to offer a way to switch your character's class, because that's exactly what he was talking about in the video.  I don't think they're going to make it something where you just flip on the fly.  But something you can pay for on their cash shop, or a difficult quest, or at least make you go back to town to do it (and it'll have a cooldown timer)

But that's exactly what he was talking about.  Not having to rework from 1 to cap just to try out a new class.

 

 

Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  Gallus85

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 922

7/05/13 10:22:43 AM#77
Originally posted by Selirii_Deuvlerii

the points I & many others raise in this thread & in the original are INARGUABLE.

 

having no penalty core role adjustment is a detriment to player identity & constancy that is key for PvP, & also a stronger sense of community.

It's extremely arguable.  You may not like it personally, but I think I don't just think this proposed system is a good thing, I know it's a good thing.  The freedom to continue playing a main character but not being locked into one class or play style is a great feature to keep the game fresh and entertaining for people.

I don't think it would be good to just be able to change it on the fly, but a system that allows you to switch classes without having to completely start over is a step in the right direction.

Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  Myrdynn

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/25/07
Posts: 1254

7/05/13 10:27:42 AM#78

for class system, see ISTARIA/HORIZONS.  They did multi-classing flawlessly. 

I hope I can have just one character, but I also hope that lets say level 100 is the max, that I have to level EVERY class seperately.  Some skills should overlap.

Although what I think we see, is some kind of Rift-ish system

on a similar note, just cause you can play every class on 1 char persay, doesnt mean you will, especially if it gets exponentially harder.  Some like to play females as their healers, I like big lizards or orcs/halfgiants as my tank, and gnome/ratonka as my rogues.  I could still see that aspect being plausable for alts

 

  Dejoblue

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/11
Posts: 295

I'll give them heroics...and when everyone is super...no one will be.

 
OP  7/05/13 10:28:07 AM#79
Originally posted by Convo
I think there will be a class system in EQN similar to EQ with no hard factions.  Players will be able to change classes though hard core faction grinding and learning the new class.  

Already mentioned this but here is the TLDR version, lol:

Smed said factions will be huge factor in EQN.

How will deities play into multiple skills or an open skill system?

What if it is tied to skills like now how you can betray in EQ2 from say pally to sk, there may still be that good evil race base but what if faction is added.

Maybe every time you use an SK spell you lose faction with good and gain faction with evil. Maybe the Gods are factions and as you use Pally spells you gain faction with Mithaniel Marr and your paladin spells become more powerful based on your faction meanwhile you LOSE faction with Rallos Zek and your SK spells and abilities become less powerful eventually they are useless because they are like a level 1 spell. Then imagine that Luclin and Povar and all of the gods have their own spells and you are in this twisting nether of what you can do based on what you do.

Then also when you do quests you get faction and that effects your spells and abilities. In PVP maybe killing a player gives faction and that effects everything.

I doubt this is the case but I wonder how factions will play out with the skill tree if at all.

I also wonder about deities and how with an open skill system that will work.

  Gallus85

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 922

7/05/13 10:30:43 AM#80
Originally posted by Seliriious_Deuvleri
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by Selirii_Deuvlerii

the points I & many others raise in this thread & in the original are INARGUABLE.

 

having no penalty core role adjustment is a detriment to player identity & constancy that is key for PvP, & also a stronger sense of community.

It's extremely arguable.  You may not like it personally, but I think I don't just think this proposed system is a good thing, I know it's a good thing.  The freedom to continue playing a main character but not being locked into one class or play style is a great feature to keep the game fresh and entertaining for people.

I don't think it would be good to just be able to change it on the fly, but a system that allows you to switch classes without having to completely start over is a step in the right direction.

but you don't disagree with me.

 

you argue for penalized core role adjustment, as well.

I disagree with your sentiment that there needs to be a level reduction or sorts to do the class change.  It shouldn't be able to be done on the fly, but this feature needs to be encouraged, not discouraged.  A quest to perform, having to go back to town and switch with a cooldown, or a SC cash shop purchase or something is exactly the right amount of "penalty".  Dropping levels is absurd, especially the amount of which you talked about.

Also, we all know EQ is going to have classes, not a skill tree.  I don't mind either, but from a design standpoint, classes are much easier to balance.  They offer a little less freedom (which can be helped by Class specialization trees) but their skills and abilities are grouped together and therefor easier to balance.

Also, even though classes are more restrictive than a skill-tree style system, EQN is going to have some sort of class changing system, so that brings in more freedom.

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