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EVE Online

EVE Online 

Jita (General)  » Is Eve pay to win?

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139 posts found
  DamonVile

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

7/04/13 12:37:49 PM#41

What does player skill have to do with a game being pay to win or not ? World of tanks was called pay to win because it used to sell gold ammo that you couldn't get without real money. It didn't matter if the guy buying it was retarded and couldn't hit anything and had no clue how to play. He was buying an advantage someone not spending real money couldn't get.

The thread is a moot point though. all p2p games by their very nature have always been pay to win. A free player can't even play and you've always been able to buy "gold" in sub game. People only get upset now because it's the company that made the game that's getting the money not some faceless asian farming one.

  Teala

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/16/04
Posts: 7436

"Really officer, they're herbs."

7/04/13 1:43:43 PM#42
Originally posted by Fendel84M
Originally posted by Raunu

In Eve, money does not = power. Yes, you will have the money to buy whatever ships you want, but you need more than just the ship to be powerful.  You need the skills necessary to fly the ship well, the skills to use whatever weapons you equip the ship with, the skills to you whatever defensive mods you put on the ship and so forth. All of those skills take time to acquire and train.

There is no one ship that's better than all the others. Each ship and class of ship has its own pros and cons.  Small ships, while faster, aren't as heavily armored or armed.  Larger ships aren't as fast, and also have trouble tracking and hitting the small faster ships. So it's entirely possible for people who have their skills trained to higher levels in a smaller class of ship to destroy a larger class of ship.

 

 

Plus, there is the fact that money is easy to come by, in Eve. You can join corps that give you free ships and will replace your ship when yours gets destroyed during any corporation related event. Even just going through the beginning quests gives you a bunch of different ships.

Then why do people even bother selling plex? Just laziness? It also seems weird that a sandbox game wouldn't have in game currency that is more valuable. I would think the economy would be an important thing.

Some people do not like to do anything but PvP.    PvP can be a very costly endeavor.    Loss of just one ship might take a billion or more to replace.  

  furbans

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/10/13
Posts: 929

7/04/13 1:50:50 PM#43
Originally posted by DamonVile

What does player skill have to do with a game being pay to win or not ? World of tanks was called pay to win because it used to sell gold ammo that you couldn't get without real money. It didn't matter if the guy buying it was retarded and couldn't hit anything and had no clue how to play. He was buying an advantage someone not spending real money couldn't get.

The thread is a moot point though. all p2p games by their very nature have always been pay to win. A free player can't even play and you've always been able to buy "gold" in sub game. People only get upset now because it's the company that made the game that's getting the money not some faceless asian farming one.

Just how are P2P/Sub games P2W?  One still has to grind dungeons, raids, faction, tokens, ect ect that one cannot simpley "P2W."

  furbans

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/10/13
Posts: 929

7/04/13 1:55:50 PM#44
Originally posted by Fendel84M

I always hear Eve being hailed as the shining beacon of subscription MMO hope. But, I looked into this plex thing...

Is it true I can just buy all the Plex I want with my credit card and then sell it in game to become crazy rich? That seems at least somewhat pay to win...they are basically being their own gold sellers.

Not in the slightest.  One still has to do MONTHS of skill training.  While you might be able to buy the top ship it is by no means permament as a noob can easily lose it to a vastly inferior ship but who is a veteran.  All it does is give you a lump of ISK to play with.  Not to mention if you buy a super "leet" ship people will be all over you like GIs on a prostitute and will be nothing more that a "shiney" in your hanger if your afraid to take the risk of losing all that ISK or $$$ you spend to get that ISK.

Starting off it might be like ZOMG!!! I'm RICH!!! but after time in game, learning the skills you want, have a good corp that ISK is more "meh."  More so since many easily have multiple accounts through buying plex on the market.

  evilized

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 564

7/04/13 1:57:54 PM#45

why not actually play the game before making threads like this? all questions would be answered within the first 15 minutes of gameplay.

 

and there is a free trial afaik.

  XxGrimmxX

Novice Member

Joined: 6/03/09
Posts: 245

7/04/13 2:02:31 PM#46
First we must define the definition of Pay to Win. Some say it's the ability to buy items that are superior than those provided in the game and the only way to get them is from real currency. Some say being able to spend money to get top tier gear/ships/equipment etc without having to put in the time to get it yourself is pay to win. Personally I think EVE is pay to win to a slight degree. Saying that you have to put months in to train your skills doesn't detract from the fact that you can essentially buy any ship you want. If WoW released a shop that allowed you to buy all the best gear would you not call that pay to win? "NO of course not, you have to spend A LOT of time grinding up to level 90, then you have to learn how to properly PvP...etc etc" I think you see my point. Player skill, or game knowledge has nothing to do with if a game is pay to win. Is EVE pay to win? People with money to blow certainly do have an advantage, you can't deny that.
  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15684

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

7/04/13 2:08:25 PM#47
Originally posted by Hokie

Well technically Terrawen he could use all that isk to purchase a character and then still not know how to play the game.

 

What Im trying to say and what a lot of other EVE players will say. Is there is no winning in EVE, because EVE has no end game.

Well i don't know about no winning in EVE, considering the game is based on control of territory.

I remember the E-bay Jedi from SWG-PreCu. They had the same problem of not knowing how to play the character they just bought.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  korent1991

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/09
Posts: 1405

7/04/13 2:11:19 PM#48
Originally posted by Fendel84M

I always hear Eve being hailed as the shining beacon of subscription MMO hope. But, I looked into this plex thing...

Is it true I can just buy all the Plex I want with my credit card and then sell it in game to become crazy rich? That seems at least somewhat pay to win...they are basically being their own gold sellers.

you can become crazy rich with only buying PLEX and lots of people do it in order to avoid jobs to get ISK....

BUT, in eve ISK only gets you the ship and the equipment... which means, if you don't have the skills trained to drive that ship - you wasted ISK on nothing useful, also if you encounter a player, who didn't just buy the most expencive ship he can get and decided to venture out in space, and is way better than you - you'll feel like a turtle on it's back :D

"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------

  Teala

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/16/04
Posts: 7436

"Really officer, they're herbs."

7/04/13 2:26:27 PM#49
Originally posted by XxGrimmxX
First we must define the definition of Pay to Win. Some say it's the ability to buy items that are superior than those provided in the game and the only way to get them is from real currency. Some say being able to spend money to get top tier gear/ships/equipment etc without having to put in the time to get it yourself is pay to win. Personally I think EVE is pay to win to a slight degree. Saying that you have to put months in to train your skills doesn't detract from the fact that you can essentially buy any ship you want. If WoW released a shop that allowed you to buy all the best gear would you not call that pay to win? "NO of course not, you have to spend A LOT of time grinding up to level 90, then you have to learn how to properly PvP...etc etc" I think you see my point. Player skill, or game knowledge has nothing to do with if a game is pay to win. Is EVE pay to win? People with money to blow certainly do have an advantage, you can't deny that.

Umm...you seem to think you can just by a ship and that means you win.    Sure a player with a lot of ISK can buy any ship they want - but what good is that ship if you can't even pilot it?   You just wasted ISK on a ship you cannot fly.   And no..people with money have no advantage - zero.     I know people in game that made all their ISK running missions - billions of ISK.    They actually buy Plex for game time.   

There is no golden Ammo in EVE - none.    There is no ship you cannot easily buy if you run a few missions.   Yes there are people that buy Plex for ISK - because they don't like anything not related to Pew Pew against other players.    That is there choice if that is how they wish to get their ISK - it doesn't give them any advantage whatsoever - at all - zero.

  XxGrimmxX

Novice Member

Joined: 6/03/09
Posts: 245

7/04/13 2:29:45 PM#50
You're right. Me being able to get instant money and tons of it over someone who has to grind out their ISK gives me absolutely no advantage at all.
  TheScavenger

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/12
Posts: 694

Those who ask a question, are stupid for 30 seconds. Those who never ask, are stupid for life.

7/04/13 2:30:48 PM#51

I've put in about 1000 dollars into EVE. Sold most of the PLEX and have so much money that I suicide gank people in cheap ships in high sec lol. And I don't care if I die at all, cause I have so much ISK that I can buy pretty much anything that I fly. I tend to stick to frigates and cruisers though...I like the smaller ships for ganking people. In other space games, I do way better in small ships.

 

In other words, usually suicide ganking is very much worth it...if you can afford to lose some. I ganked a miner (he was using one of the industrial ships to mine...don't ask me.) in high sec and got like 10 mill ISK from him lol in just cargo. So generally, I earn a lot more than I lose...but not always. But I usually fly cheap, but effective ships...so even if I lose some, its very easy to get it back or sell a couple PLEXes

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  XxGrimmxX

Novice Member

Joined: 6/03/09
Posts: 245

7/04/13 2:34:18 PM#52
Originally posted by TheScavenger

I've put in about 1000 dollars into EVE. Sold most of the PLEX and have so much money that I suicide gank people in cheap ships in high sec lol. And I don't care if I die at all, cause I have so much ISK that I can buy pretty much anything that I fly. I tend to stick to frigates and cruisers though...I like the smaller ships for ganking people. In other space games, I do way better in small ships.

 

In other words, usually suicide ganking is very much worth it...if you can afford to lose some. I ganked a miner (he was using one of the industrial ships to mine...don't ask me.) in high sec and got like 10 mill ISK from him lol in just cargo. So generally, I earn a lot more than I lose...but not always. But I usually fly cheap, but effective ships...so even if I lose some, its very easy to get it back or sell a couple PLEXes

I don't see any advantage to this at all. /sarcasm

EDIT: Congrats on your loot btw. o7

  XxGrimmxX

Novice Member

Joined: 6/03/09
Posts: 245

7/04/13 2:39:50 PM#53
Originally posted by Teala
Originally posted by XxGrimmxX
First we must define the definition of Pay to Win. Some say it's the ability to buy items that are superior than those provided in the game and the only way to get them is from real currency. Some say being able to spend money to get top tier gear/ships/equipment etc without having to put in the time to get it yourself is pay to win. Personally I think EVE is pay to win to a slight degree. Saying that you have to put months in to train your skills doesn't detract from the fact that you can essentially buy any ship you want. If WoW released a shop that allowed you to buy all the best gear would you not call that pay to win? "NO of course not, you have to spend A LOT of time grinding up to level 90, then you have to learn how to properly PvP...etc etc" I think you see my point. Player skill, or game knowledge has nothing to do with if a game is pay to win. Is EVE pay to win? People with money to blow certainly do have an advantage, you can't deny that.

Umm...you seem to think you can just by a ship and that means you win.    Sure a player with a lot of ISK can buy any ship they want - but what good is that ship if you can't even pilot it?   You just wasted ISK on a ship you cannot fly.   And no..people with money have no advantage - zero.     I know people in game that made all their ISK running missions - billions of ISK.    They actually buy Plex for game time.   

There is no golden Ammo in EVE - none.    There is no ship you cannot easily buy if you run a few missions.   Yes there are people that buy Plex for ISK - because they don't like anything not related to Pew Pew against other players.    That is there choice if that is how they wish to get their ISK - it doesn't give them any advantage whatsoever - at all - zero.

And can't you buy characters? Can't I essentially just buy a really decked out character, buy a really OP decked out ship, etc? Psh.. no advantage whatsoever to someone who doesn't spend money on the game at all... /thread

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4879

7/04/13 2:42:04 PM#54

Let me put a spin on the OP's question and ask it from a different light.

If as a brand new player to EVE, I were to pay 1 subscription and spend nothing more. No PLEX, no 2nd accounts, no nothing. But was committed to doing everything within reason to build myself up within the game. Taking full advantage of all the opportunities I can, How much of a disadvantage will I still be at? How long will I be underpowered respective to the general playerbase and what is the significance of the time gap that I can never bridge from the veteran players?

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  XxGrimmxX

Novice Member

Joined: 6/03/09
Posts: 245

7/04/13 2:43:07 PM#55
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Let me put a spin on the OP's question and ask it from a different light.

If as a brand new player to EVE, I were to pay 1 subscription and spend nothing more. No PLEX, no 2nd accounts, no nothing. But was committed to doing everything within reason to build myself up within the game. Taking full advantage of all the opportunities I can, How much of a disadvantage will I still be at? How long will I be underpowered respective to the general playerbase and what is the significance of the time gap that I can never bridge from the veteran players?

It will be several months but good news! Just spend a little bit of money and you can buy a decked out character. LOL

  Attend4455

Novice Member

Joined: 2/03/13
Posts: 166

7/04/13 2:47:42 PM#56
Originally posted by XxGrimmxX
Originally posted by Teala
Originally posted by XxGrimmxX
First we must define the definition of Pay to Win. Some say it's the ability to buy items that are superior than those provided in the game and the only way to get them is from real currency. Some say being able to spend money to get top tier gear/ships/equipment etc without having to put in the time to get it yourself is pay to win. Personally I think EVE is pay to win to a slight degree. Saying that you have to put months in to train your skills doesn't detract from the fact that you can essentially buy any ship you want. If WoW released a shop that allowed you to buy all the best gear would you not call that pay to win? "NO of course not, you have to spend A LOT of time grinding up to level 90, then you have to learn how to properly PvP...etc etc" I think you see my point. Player skill, or game knowledge has nothing to do with if a game is pay to win. Is EVE pay to win? People with money to blow certainly do have an advantage, you can't deny that.

Umm...you seem to think you can just by a ship and that means you win.    Sure a player with a lot of ISK can buy any ship they want - but what good is that ship if you can't even pilot it?   You just wasted ISK on a ship you cannot fly.   And no..people with money have no advantage - zero.     I know people in game that made all their ISK running missions - billions of ISK.    They actually buy Plex for game time.   

There is no golden Ammo in EVE - none.    There is no ship you cannot easily buy if you run a few missions.   Yes there are people that buy Plex for ISK - because they don't like anything not related to Pew Pew against other players.    That is there choice if that is how they wish to get their ISK - it doesn't give them any advantage whatsoever - at all - zero.

And can't you buy characters? Can't I essentially just buy a really decked out character, buy a really OP decked out ship, etc? Psh.. no advantage whatsoever to someone who doesn't spend money on the game at all... /thread

you could yes but you would just lose it. Look at e.g. PvE vs PvP

PvE you buy a character that can fly a blinged out mach and run lvl4 missions, you die to the first elite frig because you don't know how L4 missions work, how traversal works, etc Worse, you get mission ninja'ed and get podded in your elite clone because you don't understand aggression, Crimewatch etc

PvP, it just gets worse, you can be a maxed out sub cap pilot with every ship and weapon skill there is and you will die to the first guy that comes along in an attack frig.

0/10

I sometimes make spelling and grammar errors but I don't pretend it's because I'm using a phone

  XxGrimmxX

Novice Member

Joined: 6/03/09
Posts: 245

7/04/13 2:48:36 PM#57
Originally posted by Attend4455
Originally posted by XxGrimmxX
Originally posted by Teala
Originally posted by XxGrimmxX
First we must define the definition of Pay to Win. Some say it's the ability to buy items that are superior than those provided in the game and the only way to get them is from real currency. Some say being able to spend money to get top tier gear/ships/equipment etc without having to put in the time to get it yourself is pay to win. Personally I think EVE is pay to win to a slight degree. Saying that you have to put months in to train your skills doesn't detract from the fact that you can essentially buy any ship you want. If WoW released a shop that allowed you to buy all the best gear would you not call that pay to win? "NO of course not, you have to spend A LOT of time grinding up to level 90, then you have to learn how to properly PvP...etc etc" I think you see my point. Player skill, or game knowledge has nothing to do with if a game is pay to win. Is EVE pay to win? People with money to blow certainly do have an advantage, you can't deny that.

Umm...you seem to think you can just by a ship and that means you win.    Sure a player with a lot of ISK can buy any ship they want - but what good is that ship if you can't even pilot it?   You just wasted ISK on a ship you cannot fly.   And no..people with money have no advantage - zero.     I know people in game that made all their ISK running missions - billions of ISK.    They actually buy Plex for game time.   

There is no golden Ammo in EVE - none.    There is no ship you cannot easily buy if you run a few missions.   Yes there are people that buy Plex for ISK - because they don't like anything not related to Pew Pew against other players.    That is there choice if that is how they wish to get their ISK - it doesn't give them any advantage whatsoever - at all - zero.

And can't you buy characters? Can't I essentially just buy a really decked out character, buy a really OP decked out ship, etc? Psh.. no advantage whatsoever to someone who doesn't spend money on the game at all... /thread

you could yes but you would just lose it. Look at e.g. PvE vs PvP

PvE you buy a character that can fly a blinged out mach and run lvl4 missions, you die to the first elite frig because you don't know how L4 missions work, how traversal works, etc Worse, you get mission ninja'ed and get podded in your elite clone because you don't understand aggression, Crimewatch etc

PvP, it just gets worse, you can be a maxed out sub cap pilot with every ship and weapon skill there is and you will die to the first guy that comes along in an attack frig.

0/10

While true it really has no bearing on the discussion.

  Attend4455

Novice Member

Joined: 2/03/13
Posts: 166

7/04/13 2:51:08 PM#58
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Let me put a spin on the OP's question and ask it from a different light.

If as a brand new player to EVE, I were to pay 1 subscription and spend nothing more. No PLEX, no 2nd accounts, no nothing. But was committed to doing everything within reason to build myself up within the game. Taking full advantage of all the opportunities I can, How much of a disadvantage will I still be at? How long will I be underpowered respective to the general playerbase and what is the significance of the time gap that I can never bridge from the veteran players?

 

"How much of a disadvantage will I still be at? How long will I be underpowered respective to the general playerbase and what is the significance of the time gap that I can never bridge from the veteran players?"

It's more about what you know and who you know.

Play the game, make friends, understand how things work both in terms of game mechanics and meta gaming.

 

I sometimes make spelling and grammar errors but I don't pretend it's because I'm using a phone

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4879

7/04/13 2:52:17 PM#59
Originally posted by XxGrimmxX
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Let me put a spin on the OP's question and ask it from a different light.

If as a brand new player to EVE, I were to pay 1 subscription and spend nothing more. No PLEX, no 2nd accounts, no nothing. But was committed to doing everything within reason to build myself up within the game. Taking full advantage of all the opportunities I can, How much of a disadvantage will I still be at? How long will I be underpowered respective to the general playerbase and what is the significance of the time gap that I can never bridge from the veteran players?

It will be several months but good news! Just spend a little bit of money and you can buy a decked out character. LOL

Yeah, but assuming, I don't do that. But rather play through.

I have read that it's one of the MMOs where you should have multiple accounts to get the fullest.  It's probably the biggest deterrent for me trying EVE. I played AO and it's another one of those "exploitation" gamse. By that I mean Funcom does everything they can to get you to need multiple accounts or now, to use the cash shop.  In EVE, what would be the percentage of the Vets who only play on one account?

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  Attend4455

Novice Member

Joined: 2/03/13
Posts: 166

7/04/13 2:53:16 PM#60
Originally posted by XxGrimmxX
Originally posted by Attend4455
Originally posted by XxGrimmxX
Originally posted by Teala
Originally posted by XxGrimmxX
First we must define the definition of Pay to Win. Some say it's the ability to buy items that are superior than those provided in the game and the only way to get them is from real currency. Some say being able to spend money to get top tier gear/ships/equipment etc without having to put in the time to get it yourself is pay to win. Personally I think EVE is pay to win to a slight degree. Saying that you have to put months in to train your skills doesn't detract from the fact that you can essentially buy any ship you want. If WoW released a shop that allowed you to buy all the best gear would you not call that pay to win? "NO of course not, you have to spend A LOT of time grinding up to level 90, then you have to learn how to properly PvP...etc etc" I think you see my point. Player skill, or game knowledge has nothing to do with if a game is pay to win. Is EVE pay to win? People with money to blow certainly do have an advantage, you can't deny that.

Umm...you seem to think you can just by a ship and that means you win.    Sure a player with a lot of ISK can buy any ship they want - but what good is that ship if you can't even pilot it?   You just wasted ISK on a ship you cannot fly.   And no..people with money have no advantage - zero.     I know people in game that made all their ISK running missions - billions of ISK.    They actually buy Plex for game time.   

There is no golden Ammo in EVE - none.    There is no ship you cannot easily buy if you run a few missions.   Yes there are people that buy Plex for ISK - because they don't like anything not related to Pew Pew against other players.    That is there choice if that is how they wish to get their ISK - it doesn't give them any advantage whatsoever - at all - zero.

And can't you buy characters? Can't I essentially just buy a really decked out character, buy a really OP decked out ship, etc? Psh.. no advantage whatsoever to someone who doesn't spend money on the game at all... /thread

you could yes but you would just lose it. Look at e.g. PvE vs PvP

PvE you buy a character that can fly a blinged out mach and run lvl4 missions, you die to the first elite frig because you don't know how L4 missions work, how traversal works, etc Worse, you get mission ninja'ed and get podded in your elite clone because you don't understand aggression, Crimewatch etc

PvP, it just gets worse, you can be a maxed out sub cap pilot with every ship and weapon skill there is and you will die to the first guy that comes along in an attack frig.

0/10

While true it really has no bearing on the discussion.

au contraire my friend, the subject is "Is Eve pay to win?", my answer is, No it isn't and I pointed out the flaws in your argument.

I sometimes make spelling and grammar errors but I don't pretend it's because I'm using a phone

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