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Hardware  » Need some help controlling data usage on my home network.

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30 posts found
  OG_Zorvan

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/31/12
Posts: 646

 
OP  7/03/13 7:49:24 AM#1

Alright, I need an IT guru.

Moving to a little country house in the boonies, the only internet I can get is ATT DSL  6mb  which has a 150gb cap ( geez, I miss my Comcast 50mb with 250gb cap:p ).

Now my brother and his old lady moved in with me. I hold off doing any major downloading until the end of the month so I can make sure I don't go over my cap during the month.

I go to do some downloading and find out I'm 12gb shy of cap because my brother's ol' lady sits on their laptop all day sucking down streaming movies and youtube bronie videos.

If all else fails, I'll shut them out of the network completely and let them bitch.

But ideally, I'd like to find a way to just give them a download cap. Say like 20gb per month, when they hit it they lose access until the new billing cycle. The router does let me schedule shut off of internet access when a specified cap is reached, but that's for ALL computers/devices. It doesn't let me limit ethernet/wireless or devices separately or else I'd have no problem.

I have a Netgear WPN824N wireless router. It doesn't provide me with QoS access and that wouldn't really help anyway. I don't really care how fast or slow they download, only HOW MUCH they download.

Thought about running custom firmware for the router but never did it before and don't want to brick the router/fuck shit up. And not even sure if there's a custom firmware to let me do what I want to do.

So, any advice on how to accomplish a monthly cap on the wireless, either through the router or through third party software?

EA CEO John Riccitiello's on future microtransactions: "When you are six hours into playing Battlefield and you run out of ammo in your clip, and we ask you for a dollar to reload, you're really not very price sensitive at that point in time...We're not gouging, but we're charging."

  lugal

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/13/08
Posts: 504

7/03/13 8:01:09 AM#2
Might be limited by your hardware. I know I can do that on a Cisco router or switch, not sure if the Netgear can. May have to settle with throttling. Good luck

Roses are red
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The reviewer has a mishapen head
Which means his opinion is skewed
...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10419

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

7/03/13 9:31:45 AM#3

I have a Netgear N600 (WNDR3400v2) that's about a week old. While it's possible to set a limit, it's not possible to set a limit per MAC address, which is what you'd need to do. It doesn't seem to be possible to set a limit per network either, since you have a main and a guest network, each with a 2ghz and 5ghz ranges. They all share the same bandwidth cap, just as they all share the same MAC address access list.

If you're going to use a custom rom, check out www.dd-wrt.com first. That seems to be the defacto customer router rom. Though, looking through their tutorials, I don't see anything about bandwidth caps and the like.

You might consider having two routers. One would be for your family, with a bandwidth cap, the other would be for you, with a different bandwidth cap. Not entirely sure how to do this, since I've never set something like this up. From what I've read, you'd have a main router, plugged into your DSL modem, and the secondary router would plug into your main router. The secondary router allows connections to your family, with a bandwidth cap, while the main router only allows connections to your MAC addresses, with no bandwidth cap.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  OG_Zorvan

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/31/12
Posts: 646

 
OP  7/03/13 9:49:34 AM#4
Originally posted by lizardbones

I have a Netgear N600 (WNDR3400v2) that's about a week old. While it's possible to set a limit, it's not possible to set a limit per MAC address, which is what you'd need to do. It doesn't seem to be possible to set a limit per network either, since you have a main and a guest network, each with a 2ghz and 5ghz ranges. They all share the same bandwidth cap, just as they all share the same MAC address access list.

If you're going to use a custom rom, check out www.dd-wrt.com first. That seems to be the defacto customer router rom. Though, looking through their tutorials, I don't see anything about bandwidth caps and the like.

You might consider having two routers. One would be for your family, with a bandwidth cap, the other would be for you, with a different bandwidth cap. Not entirely sure how to do this, since I've never set something like this up. From what I've read, you'd have a main router, plugged into your DSL modem, and the secondary router would plug into your main router. The secondary router allows connections to your family, with a bandwidth cap, while the main router only allows connections to your MAC addresses, with no bandwidth cap.

I actually looked into dd-wrt but my router isn't supported, unfortunately. One that had exactly what i was looking for was a firmware called Gargoyle, but it's a bit convoluted and unknown if it would even work on my router.

However, your idea of the two routers is actually doable, and wish I'd thought of it originally. I'm gonna get that setup as I have a an extra router laying around here somewhere. Thanks bro!

EA CEO John Riccitiello's on future microtransactions: "When you are six hours into playing Battlefield and you run out of ammo in your clip, and we ask you for a dollar to reload, you're really not very price sensitive at that point in time...We're not gouging, but we're charging."

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10419

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

7/03/13 9:53:53 AM#5


Originally posted by OG_Zorvan

Originally posted by lizardbones I have a Netgear N600 (WNDR3400v2) that's about a week old. While it's possible to set a limit, it's not possible to set a limit per MAC address, which is what you'd need to do. It doesn't seem to be possible to set a limit per network either, since you have a main and a guest network, each with a 2ghz and 5ghz ranges. They all share the same bandwidth cap, just as they all share the same MAC address access list. If you're going to use a custom rom, check out www.dd-wrt.com first. That seems to be the defacto customer router rom. Though, looking through their tutorials, I don't see anything about bandwidth caps and the like. You might consider having two routers. One would be for your family, with a bandwidth cap, the other would be for you, with a different bandwidth cap. Not entirely sure how to do this, since I've never set something like this up. From what I've read, you'd have a main router, plugged into your DSL modem, and the secondary router would plug into your main router. The secondary router allows connections to your family, with a bandwidth cap, while the main router only allows connections to your MAC addresses, with no bandwidth cap.
I actually looked into dd-wrt but my router isn't supported, unfortunately. One that had exactly what i was looking for was a firmware called Gargoyle, but it's a bit convoluted and unknown if it would even work on my router.

However, your idea of the two routers is actually doable, and wish I'd thought of it originally. I'm gonna get that setup as I have a an extra router laying around here somewhere. Thanks bro!




Cool. Let us know how it works!

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Ridelynn

Elite Member

Joined: 12/19/10
Posts: 3319

7/03/13 12:27:39 PM#6


Originally posted by OG_Zorvan

Originally posted by lizardbones I have a Netgear N600 (WNDR3400v2) that's about a week old. While it's possible to set a limit, it's not possible to set a limit per MAC address, which is what you'd need to do. It doesn't seem to be possible to set a limit per network either, since you have a main and a guest network, each with a 2ghz and 5ghz ranges. They all share the same bandwidth cap, just as they all share the same MAC address access list. If you're going to use a custom rom, check out www.dd-wrt.com first. That seems to be the defacto customer router rom. Though, looking through their tutorials, I don't see anything about bandwidth caps and the like. You might consider having two routers. One would be for your family, with a bandwidth cap, the other would be for you, with a different bandwidth cap. Not entirely sure how to do this, since I've never set something like this up. From what I've read, you'd have a main router, plugged into your DSL modem, and the secondary router would plug into your main router. The secondary router allows connections to your family, with a bandwidth cap, while the main router only allows connections to your MAC addresses, with no bandwidth cap.
I actually looked into dd-wrt but my router isn't supported, unfortunately. One that had exactly what i was looking for was a firmware called Gargoyle, but it's a bit convoluted and unknown if it would even work on my router.

However, your idea of the two routers is actually doable, and wish I'd thought of it originally. I'm gonna get that setup as I have a an extra router laying around here somewhere. Thanks bro!


That could get sticky, try to avoid NAT behind NAT - if you can get multiple IPs from your IPS, that makes it easy and sometimes they will do it if you just call them and ask, although they sometimes want to charge extra for this. Then each router is just plugged into the Modem, and they both have their own IP going through your service, and it becomes trivial.

You may also just be able to designate your second router as the DMZ IP on the first, and then leave it's own DHCP server on with it's own subnet - you wouldn't be able to "see" any of the computers on the second router (via Network Explorer, LAN games, etc) from the first router, but I don't know that that is all that much of a concern unless your doing a lot of file sharing and such, and there are ways around that.

NAT behind NAT makes for port forwarding nightmares.

  OG_Zorvan

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/31/12
Posts: 646

 
OP  7/03/13 1:00:42 PM#7
Originally posted by Ridelynn

 


Originally posted by OG_Zorvan

Originally posted by lizardbones I have a Netgear N600 (WNDR3400v2) that's about a week old. While it's possible to set a limit, it's not possible to set a limit per MAC address, which is what you'd need to do. It doesn't seem to be possible to set a limit per network either, since you have a main and a guest network, each with a 2ghz and 5ghz ranges. They all share the same bandwidth cap, just as they all share the same MAC address access list. If you're going to use a custom rom, check out www.dd-wrt.com first. That seems to be the defacto customer router rom. Though, looking through their tutorials, I don't see anything about bandwidth caps and the like. You might consider having two routers. One would be for your family, with a bandwidth cap, the other would be for you, with a different bandwidth cap. Not entirely sure how to do this, since I've never set something like this up. From what I've read, you'd have a main router, plugged into your DSL modem, and the secondary router would plug into your main router. The secondary router allows connections to your family, with a bandwidth cap, while the main router only allows connections to your MAC addresses, with no bandwidth cap.
I actually looked into dd-wrt but my router isn't supported, unfortunately. One that had exactly what i was looking for was a firmware called Gargoyle, but it's a bit convoluted and unknown if it would even work on my router.

 

However, your idea of the two routers is actually doable, and wish I'd thought of it originally. I'm gonna get that setup as I have a an extra router laying around here somewhere. Thanks bro!


 

That could get sticky, try to avoid NAT behind NAT - if you can get multiple IPs from your IPS, that makes it easy and sometimes they will do it if you just call them and ask, although they sometimes want to charge extra for this. Then each router is just plugged into the Modem, and they both have their own IP going through your service, and it becomes trivial.

You may also just be able to designate your second router as the DMZ IP on the first, and then leave it's own DHCP server on with it's own subnet - you wouldn't be able to "see" any of the computers on the second router (via Network Explorer, LAN games, etc) from the first router, but I don't know that that is all that much of a concern unless your doing a lot of file sharing and such, and there are ways around that.

NAT behind NAT makes for port forwarding nightmares.

Yeah, I'm gonna try to run two from one modem. If not, then I'll chain them. Basically, all the second router is going to do is supply wireless to their PC only, so a monthly data cap can be set on them through that router while the first router will supply ethernet  for myself  The DMZ thing may work, I'm not worried about seeing their traffic, only controlling the amount of data upload/download they use per month.

EA CEO John Riccitiello's on future microtransactions: "When you are six hours into playing Battlefield and you run out of ammo in your clip, and we ask you for a dollar to reload, you're really not very price sensitive at that point in time...We're not gouging, but we're charging."

  syntax42

Elite Member

Joined: 3/30/07
Posts: 1087

7/03/13 8:04:39 PM#8

If you have an old desktop with 2 NICs, you could turn it into a firewall.  Find the right firewall software and you can do exactly what you're looking for, and possibly add extra security to your network.

 

The simplest method might be to set up pfSense as your firewall, then set up a captive portal on the LAN interface.  This requires users to "log on" similar to a hotel network.  The captive portal can then track and limit bandwidth per user.

 

There are a lot of other firewall options out there.  I think pfSense is one of the few free ones with a captive portal option.  It also has very low hardware requirements.  A 486 is probably fast enough to handle your bandwidth if you are just doing basic NAT routing and aren't enabling intrusion detection.  A Pentium III would be fast enough for IDS/IPS security and probably web proxy filtering and virus scanning.

 

Edit:  I should mention pfSense is one of the harder firewalls to set up (excluding Cisco IOS stuff) and has a steep learning curve.  If you need help, refer to the pfSense forums or send me a PM.  We might be able to set up a time for me to configure it, if I'm not too busy.

  jdnewell

Elite Member

Joined: 7/04/06
Posts: 1817

7/03/13 9:57:13 PM#9

Or you could just tell her she cant sit on her ass and stream video all day on your network.

Put a password on it that only you know and wahlah. Problem solved.

Or make them pay for their own internet. Your isp can do that.

 

Seems an aweful lot of trouble to go through when a conversation will probably work. And if it doesnt then password your shit and make her ask you to log in for her when she wants to get on the net. Either will solve the issue. I would try asking her not to stream all day due to your cap. See how that works and go from there.

  Toxia

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/25/09
Posts: 1289

7/03/13 10:03:02 PM#10

Keep hearing about this internet usage cap more and more. WTF kinda shit is this. I've never had a usage cap and dont think i'll use traditional internet atall if and when my ISP decides to go to this. Hell even my phone has unlimited internet usage.

When did this come into play, and for what reasons? It honestly boggles my mind. People just say 'okay, whatever' when the companies come out with this?

EDIT: How does a mmo gamer, or any type of gamer playing multiplayer games do this? I imagine it isnt hard to quickly surpass this limit while doing online gaming?

The Deep Web is sca-ry.

  Br3akingDawn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/01/11
Posts: 1295

7/03/13 10:04:42 PM#11
my god I feel exactly how you feel!! though I have the 18mb Uverse I limit wireless to only max 9mb. So when everyone is online, my wired speed wont be jipped from all the others using my internet. so Maybe you could hmm limit your wireless speed to 1mb or 2mb or 3mb, that way at least their stream will take longer... and not too much bandwith is used...

  Ridelynn

Elite Member

Joined: 12/19/10
Posts: 3319

7/03/13 10:22:58 PM#12


Originally posted by Toxia
Keep hearing about this internet usage cap more and more. WTF kinda shit is this. I've never had a usage cap and dont think i'll use traditional internet atall if and when my ISP decides to go to this. Hell even my phone has unlimited internet usage.

When did this come into play, and for what reasons? It honestly boggles my mind. People just say 'okay, whatever' when the companies come out with this?

EDIT: How does a mmo gamer, or any type of gamer playing multiplayer games do this? I imagine it isnt hard to quickly surpass this limit while doing online gaming?


Online gaming and just standard web browsing doesn't use a lot - I have a plan that has a 5G/month limit through work, and using it for normal stuff and gaming, including Pandora/Apple music streaming, I never even come close.

However, I can't download games/programs digitally, I have to be very careful with regards to patches, and streaming video (especially HD video) is right out.

Gaming in and of itself is low bandwidth. It's all the stuff that comes with gaming, like downloading the game and getting big patches, that really sucks.

Bandwidth caps are just the wave of the future - truth be told I rather agree with them, especially coming from the days when cable modem = huge slowdown because everyone and their brother in your neighborhood were streaming torrents because they thought it was cool, and there was no consequence of doing so. Paying for your data makes sense to me - just like paying for your minutes on a cell phone. You need what you need; but you have to really evaluate the difference between need and want.

  lugal

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/13/08
Posts: 504

7/03/13 10:28:12 PM#13
Originally posted by Toxia

Keep hearing about this internet usage cap more and more. WTF kinda shit is this. I've never had a usage cap and dont think i'll use traditional internet atall if and when my ISP decides to go to this. Hell even my phone has unlimited internet usage.

When did this come into play, and for what reasons? It honestly boggles my mind. People just say 'okay, whatever' when the companies come out with this?

EDIT: How does a mmo gamer, or any type of gamer playing multiplayer games do this? I imagine it isnt hard to quickly surpass this limit while doing online gaming?

In the age of F2P gaming, we are now getting similar type of business models from ISP's. It should be really popular. Now you do not have the burden of paying for all the bandwith you would never use anyways, with ancient flat unlimited usage fee's.

Roses are red
Violets are blue
The reviewer has a mishapen head
Which means his opinion is skewed
...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley

  lugal

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/13/08
Posts: 504

7/03/13 10:36:02 PM#14
Originally posted by OG_Zorvan
Originally posted by Ridelynn

 


Originally posted by OG_Zorvan

Originally posted by lizardbones I have a Netgear N600 (WNDR3400v2) that's about a week old. While it's possible to set a limit, it's not possible to set a limit per MAC address, which is what you'd need to do. It doesn't seem to be possible to set a limit per network either, since you have a main and a guest network, each with a 2ghz and 5ghz ranges. They all share the same bandwidth cap, just as they all share the same MAC address access list. If you're going to use a custom rom, check out www.dd-wrt.com first. That seems to be the defacto customer router rom. Though, looking through their tutorials, I don't see anything about bandwidth caps and the like. You might consider having two routers. One would be for your family, with a bandwidth cap, the other would be for you, with a different bandwidth cap. Not entirely sure how to do this, since I've never set something like this up. From what I've read, you'd have a main router, plugged into your DSL modem, and the secondary router would plug into your main router. The secondary router allows connections to your family, with a bandwidth cap, while the main router only allows connections to your MAC addresses, with no bandwidth cap.
I actually looked into dd-wrt but my router isn't supported, unfortunately. One that had exactly what i was looking for was a firmware called Gargoyle, but it's a bit convoluted and unknown if it would even work on my router.

 

However, your idea of the two routers is actually doable, and wish I'd thought of it originally. I'm gonna get that setup as I have a an extra router laying around here somewhere. Thanks bro!


 

That could get sticky, try to avoid NAT behind NAT - if you can get multiple IPs from your IPS, that makes it easy and sometimes they will do it if you just call them and ask, although they sometimes want to charge extra for this. Then each router is just plugged into the Modem, and they both have their own IP going through your service, and it becomes trivial.

You may also just be able to designate your second router as the DMZ IP on the first, and then leave it's own DHCP server on with it's own subnet - you wouldn't be able to "see" any of the computers on the second router (via Network Explorer, LAN games, etc) from the first router, but I don't know that that is all that much of a concern unless your doing a lot of file sharing and such, and there are ways around that.

NAT behind NAT makes for port forwarding nightmares.

Yeah, I'm gonna try to run two from one modem. If not, then I'll chain them. Basically, all the second router is going to do is supply wireless to their PC only, so a monthly data cap can be set on them through that router while the first router will supply ethernet  for myself  The DMZ thing may work, I'm not worried about seeing their traffic, only controlling the amount of data upload/download they use per month.

YOur router must have some sort of port management ability(assumption on my part). If they connect via a specific port, you should be able to limit bandwith on that port. Then setting up your port to have unlimited. Now, if need be, a wireless switch instead of a second router. Typically switches are cheaper, since they do not have all the functions of a router.

 

Edit: Couldn't find a decent cheap switch, I take for granted I get to play with Cisco equipment.

Roses are red
Violets are blue
The reviewer has a mishapen head
Which means his opinion is skewed
...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley

  Stizzled

Gumshoe

Joined: 9/13/07
Posts: 1000

Kill Your Heroes

7/03/13 10:47:29 PM#15
Originally posted by Toxia

Keep hearing about this internet usage cap more and more. WTF kinda shit is this. I've never had a usage cap and dont think i'll use traditional internet atall if and when my ISP decides to go to this. Hell even my phone has unlimited internet usage.

When did this come into play, and for what reasons? It honestly boggles my mind. People just say 'okay, whatever' when the companies come out with this?

EDIT: How does a mmo gamer, or any type of gamer playing multiplayer games do this? I imagine it isnt hard to quickly surpass this limit while doing online gaming?

I believe plans with usage limits are generally quite a bit cheaper than unlimited plans, at least at first. So, they make sense if your on a budget or just don't use the internet that much.

 

Although I'm with you on the gamer issue. I don't know how anyone who's main hobby is internet gaming could live without unlimited data. I would think that the extra cost would be justified.

  Arakazi

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/23/09
Posts: 829

7/03/13 11:11:56 PM#16
I used to have a limited broadband plan with my isp. Didn't take me long to go over the limit and end up paying a lot more than a plan with unlimited broadband. If you don't stream hd movies or download games its fine. But if you do either of these then its more pain than it's worth.

  Shadanwolf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/10
Posts: 1867

7/04/13 1:59:25 AM#17

I'm far from a guru.....but I would say they should set up their own separate account.

I also would do almost anything to not have some company tell me how much I can download. Think outside the box.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13169

7/04/13 6:39:51 AM#18
Originally posted by Toxia

Keep hearing about this internet usage cap more and more. WTF kinda shit is this. I've never had a usage cap and dont think i'll use traditional internet atall if and when my ISP decides to go to this. Hell even my phone has unlimited internet usage.

When did this come into play, and for what reasons? It honestly boggles my mind. People just say 'okay, whatever' when the companies come out with this?

EDIT: How does a mmo gamer, or any type of gamer playing multiplayer games do this? I imagine it isnt hard to quickly surpass this limit while doing online gaming?

You might well have a cap that your ISP just doesn't advertise.  Some will have a cap and, if you go over the cap, they'll throttle your speeds back--but not cut off your Internet or charge you extra.  But they'll set the cap high enough that very few customers go over it, and so very few notice it or complain.  ISPs don't like it when 1% of their customers use 50% of their bandwidth, so they'll try to throttle back that 1% without disturbing anyone else if they can--and if that 1% quits, so much the better.

As far as home (not mobile) Internet bandwidth usage goes, online gaming basically amounts to a rounding error for most plans, unless you frequently download huge games.  Excluding downloading a new game (but including patches of a game you've previously downloaded!), if you were to play an online game 24 hours per day every single day for a month, that might total 10 GB or so for the month.  Most home ISPs will love you if you only use 10 GB per month.

The exception is if you use OnLive or some analogous game streaming service, as those eat up massive amounts of bandwidth.

  syntax42

Elite Member

Joined: 3/30/07
Posts: 1087

7/04/13 9:23:21 AM#19

I was curious about MMO bandwidth usage, so I measured it for myself using NetBalancer.  

After playing Rift for 1.5 hours, I had a total of 17.0 MB downloaded and 4.3 MB uploaded by the game client.  I participated in a zone invasion which involved many players in the area, and I did some instant adventures and a random dungeon.  All of this should be a moderate to high amount of bandwidth usage for a MMO.

 

The average data rate was about 32 Kbps.  Converted to one month of continuous usage, we get about 10,224 MB, which is spot on for Quizzical's 10 GB estimate.  You won't be playing 24 hours per day, though.  My guess is you won't be able to play one quarter of that.  

  OG_Zorvan

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/31/12
Posts: 646

 
OP  7/04/13 12:39:31 PM#20

Couldn't find that extra router that I *know* I had...somewhere. 

Got pissed.

Took my brother to get one of those wireless dongles and a plan for his laptop ( under his name, his money ).

Locked them out of my system.

Problem solved.:p

 

However, I have found much useful information here from you guys and I greatly appreciate it!

EA CEO John Riccitiello's on future microtransactions: "When you are six hours into playing Battlefield and you run out of ammo in your clip, and we ask you for a dollar to reload, you're really not very price sensitive at that point in time...We're not gouging, but we're charging."

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