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News & Features Discussion  » [Preview] Firefall: The Miracle Patch?

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63 posts found
  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5575

7/03/13 6:18:12 PM#41
Originally posted by Grakulen
Originally posted by HakudoJoe                                                                         

Once you hit the combined point of permanent progress (no wipes) and taking money, your game is released. 

QFT

I think it's a little more complicated than that.  In a closed test it is hard to attract good testers and it's hard to keep people testing especially wipe after wipe.  People want to retain permanent progress and they want access to the cash shop (I've heard this complaint in a few alpha/beta tests now).

On the other hand, developers / publishers should be held accountable and factor in that those who are testing and spending money and time on the game should be appropriately compensated.  In short developers should be a lot more generous, forgiving, and accommodating towards those who are helping them polish their product.

I've done testing for Cryptic, SoE, and a few others.  They could all stand to improve in this regard.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  HakudoJoe

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/13
Posts: 10

7/03/13 6:47:35 PM#42
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by Grakulen
Originally posted by HakudoJoe                                                                         

Once you hit the combined point of permanent progress (no wipes) and taking money, your game is released. 

QFT

I think it's a little more complicated than that.  In a closed test it is hard to attract good testers and it's hard to keep people testing especially wipe after wipe. 

 

Not really. If your game is good (see: FFXIV) people will play the crap out of it even when there's an impending wipe.   You don't need to bribe people to get them to play a good game. 

 
  OG_Zorvan

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/31/12
Posts: 646

7/03/13 6:55:13 PM#43
Originally posted by orbitxo

Its pretty clear from reading all theses posts here that noone has actually recently played FF since the last patch. or if that at all.

speculations are here left and right.

 

my advice is play the game July 9th and then comment. because right now many of you sound like

spectators watching a football game instead of actually playing in the football game.

that is all.

 

Just because someone may be a spectator at the game instead of playing in the game doesn't somehow magically block  them from seeing the quarterback fumble. In fact, as it is many times in life, those on the outside looking in end up seeing more than those right in the thick of it.

EA CEO John Riccitiello's on future microtransactions: "When you are six hours into playing Battlefield and you run out of ammo in your clip, and we ask you for a dollar to reload, you're really not very price sensitive at that point in time...We're not gouging, but we're charging."

  Braindome

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/06/11
Posts: 530

7/03/13 7:06:14 PM#44

This article is essential and needed so that people that played Firefall in the past and thought it was mediocre come back and see that the quest structure "in particular" has made a vast open world dynamic jump and is very cerebral and exciting.

It has actually been alot better since the last patch and if anyone played it in the past and thinks it's the same should definitely come back and try again as it has improved quite a bit.

Running open world missions is hella fun.

 
  Vlacke

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/15/11
Posts: 156

7/03/13 8:53:56 PM#45
Game is constantly improving, vastly even from when i last played it and i will definitely give it a chance, the potential is undoubtedly there.
  RelGn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/05
Posts: 515

7/03/13 10:08:37 PM#46

open beta means they soft release the game because there are no money.

The game is not their final vision but they release it in order to complete their vision by earning some money from people that play.

Although the game is not on it's full release vision it's pretty much playable but with a lot of things missing.

For example marvel heroes has been released but the game is treated like open beta.

  SomeHuman

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/24/12
Posts: 268

7/03/13 10:31:58 PM#47

Closed Beta Key: J1H4X-AMESO-YO2OJ-XWM1Y

Please, post when you take it.

Have fun!

Gaming since 1985; Online gaming since 1995; No End in Sight! My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8POVoJ8fdOseuJ4U1ZX-oA

  Baikal

Tipster

Joined: 9/20/04
Posts: 1028

7/03/13 11:36:29 PM#48
Originally posted by SomeHuman

Closed Beta Key: J1H4X-AMESO-YO2OJ-XWM1Y

Please, post when you take it.

Have fun!

Thanks for doing it! Longest I've seen a code offered without redemption on this site in quite awhile!

 

For me, I've tried to keep away from the genre ever since SWTOR, don't get me wrong, I liked it, but it was not ultimately what I wanted. That said, I've kept away from a lot of titles, and only recently started paying attention to FireFall.  I'm looking forward to seeing what it is, and taking it for a spin, and forming my own impressions. 

 

Cheers for posting the code!

  TheCrow2k

Novice Member

Joined: 10/19/09
Posts: 956

7/03/13 11:47:26 PM#49
@Dakirn - Sorry mate but the second you start allowing I game purchases (founders packs / pre-orders are different) then it is no longer any sort of BETA, instead it is a release. Sure it can be a work in progress release like almost every other MMO it will develop & change over time. Devs need to stop treating players as suckers with this "BETA but you can spend money and we won't do wipes" crap.
  KaosLegion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 61

7/04/13 12:32:45 AM#50
If kickstarter can take money for development generally without a playable game what is the problem with a game in development and live offering options for financial support??
  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5165

7/04/13 2:58:51 AM#51

"Next week, Firefall officially goes into open beta.  That’s the same kind of Open Beta that we reviewed Neverwinter during, and Dragon’s Prophet.  It means they’re letting anyone and everyone in, not wiping characters, and taking money from customers."

This is the new normal then, you say the game is becoming beta and open the doors to all. But the cash shop is open and no toons will be wiped. This is a launch and any problems will be blamed on it being a beta.

Glad to hear MMORPG.com intends to start the weekly review process now, these companies are trying to pull the wool over players yes.

In answer to other posters questions, I have always said do not pre-order and you take part in a Kickstarter at your own peril. It is amazing how easily punters are parted from their money before they see the actual product. To be fair you are seeing more of a MMO in beta than you are when you pre-order a game, but the same principle applies. They are taking your money before the goods are fit for sale.

  Robokapp

Elite Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4531

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

7/04/13 3:02:24 AM#52
Scot, it's the players' moral responsibility...YES, nariseildon, moral responsibility, you heard it right...to not use the cash shop until the game is launched.

  DigitallyEndowed

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/14/10
Posts: 125

7/04/13 3:33:57 AM#53
Originally posted by HakudoJoe
Originally posted by sbarra1x

Just to chime in on the whole “Open Beta Vs release” issue: it’s not so black and white! Try not to have such a two dimensional perspective.


Having a cash shop open and choosing not to wipe characters does not automatically class a game as released, finished, ready; you should make your judgements based on the games features and current state of development as opposed to these “hidden rules” that have been imagined up.

Yes. It does make your game released.  I don't think people understand the amount of word manipulation that's going on here.   Beta by it's definition (in the past) means that the product is not content complete, and is filled with bugs that need working out.    It meant that if the game was "officially" released in that state, it wouldn't be up to the standards of the game industry at large.   

.                                                                                                                                                                           

The problem is that PR teams have taken to the idea of applying the beta tag to a released product. Why? Because there's a large contingent of people who will be directly fooled into thinking that it's ok if a released product is incomplete if it has the mythical beta tag on it.   People aren't ok with an incomplete product if it's deemed release, but they can be fooled if you call a release product beta.  It's nothing more than hardcore deception of people who don't know any better. 

.                                                                                                                                                                      

 

Thankfully, there's plenty of people in the games journalism world who aren't giving companies a pass when they try to release woefully incomplete games and call them a beta.    Whatever reviews Firefall may get in the next week will be the reviews it deserves, make no mistake. 

 

 

I understand perfectly the level of manipulation hence the mention of Neverwinter. I still disagree. As I said the fact that you charge for a service does not necessarily mean that the said service is “finished;” it’s simply not as black and white as that.

 

As you say yourself a beta is not content complete, still has many bugs and so forth. You can launch an open beta that meets these requirements while also choosing to open your cash shop and opting not to wipe any progression; this does not automatically mean that the game is a finished and refined live service.

 

For Example, what if there were to be a game on Kickstarter and the proposed “launch” version will have 7 races, 7 classes, 7 continents, 7 dungeons, 7 raids and 7 warzones. Now, at some point within this hypothetical game’s development the company decide to launch an open beta, for real “open beta reasons.” At this point in said game’s development there is 1 race, 1 class, 1 continent, 1 dungeon, 1 raid and 1 warzone; we can clearly see that it is nowhere near finished and that the open beta is genuine, but guess what? The company have also decided to keep all character progression permanent as a sort of perk for beta testers, and they have opted to open their cash shop to the public to generate more revenue for further development. Does this suddenly mean that this clearly incomplete game is now complete?

 

This is what I am getting at; you need to use judgement and logic as opposed to an unwritten blanket rule.


I agree entirely that it is poor business practice to release a game and pretend it is beta. I see why some companies do this and the advantages are clear, and yes many people do get “suckered” into it. Does this mean that every game with a  live cash shop is automatically finished even if it is very clearly not? Come on now.

  Zorgo

Elite Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2197

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

7/04/13 7:40:57 AM#54
Originally posted by BillMurphy
Originally posted by Dakirn

Bill.. for the love of god, don't compare the FireFall Open Beta to Neverwinter. Never, ever.. EVER do that.

Seriously, the Neverwinter launch/open beta fiasco is making it harder for games to do a beta without people expecting it to be in a release state and then complaining everywhere the game isn't finished... and things like you mentioned in the article aren't helping.

I've already spoken to Red 5 and their PR.  While they're calling it Open Beta, and want people to know it's still "Beta", they also know that letting anyone and everyone in, not wiping characters, and taking money and treating it like a live service means we're going to review it.

It's that simple.  They can call it what they want to call it, but when it hits Open Beta on the 9th, we'll be treating it like a live product and reviewing it because it's taking money and will for all intents and purposes be "live".

It's not just Neverwinter that did this either.  But oh-so-many F2P games across the board.  Just because they're higher profile doesn't mean they get a pass.  In fact, it likely means they'll be more under the microscope, and from what I can gather Red 5 is prepared for that.

I guess Bill doesn't love God...../wink.

  Squeak69

Novice Member

Joined: 1/21/13
Posts: 959

cheese cheese wheres da bloody cheese

7/04/13 8:57:37 AM#55
Originally posted by sbarra1x
Originally posted by HakudoJoe
Originally posted by sbarra1x

Just to chime in on the whole “Open Beta Vs release” issue: it’s not so black and white! Try not to have such a two dimensional perspective.


Having a cash shop open and choosing not to wipe characters does not automatically class a game as released, finished, ready; you should make your judgements based on the games features and current state of development as opposed to these “hidden rules” that have been imagined up.

Yes. It does make your game released.  I don't think people understand the amount of word manipulation that's going on here.   Beta by it's definition (in the past) means that the product is not content complete, and is filled with bugs that need working out.    It meant that if the game was "officially" released in that state, it wouldn't be up to the standards of the game industry at large.   

.                                                                                                                                                                           

The problem is that PR teams have taken to the idea of applying the beta tag to a released product. Why? Because there's a large contingent of people who will be directly fooled into thinking that it's ok if a released product is incomplete if it has the mythical beta tag on it.   People aren't ok with an incomplete product if it's deemed release, but they can be fooled if you call a release product beta.  It's nothing more than hardcore deception of people who don't know any better. 

.                                                                                                                                                                      

 

Thankfully, there's plenty of people in the games journalism world who aren't giving companies a pass when they try to release woefully incomplete games and call them a beta.    Whatever reviews Firefall may get in the next week will be the reviews it deserves, make no mistake. 

 

 

I understand perfectly the level of manipulation hence the mention of Neverwinter. I still disagree. As I said the fact that you charge for a service does not necessarily mean that the said service is “finished;” it’s simply not as black and white as that.

 

As you say yourself a beta is not content complete, still has many bugs and so forth. You can launch an open beta that meets these requirements while also choosing to open your cash shop and opting not to wipe any progression; this does not automatically mean that the game is a finished and refined live service.

 

For Example, what if there were to be a game on Kickstarter and the proposed “launch” version will have 7 races, 7 classes, 7 continents, 7 dungeons, 7 raids and 7 warzones. Now, at some point within this hypothetical game’s development the company decide to launch an open beta, for real “open beta reasons.” At this point in said game’s development there is 1 race, 1 class, 1 continent, 1 dungeon, 1 raid and 1 warzone; we can clearly see that it is nowhere near finished and that the open beta is genuine, but guess what? The company have also decided to keep all character progression permanent as a sort of perk for beta testers, and they have opted to open their cash shop to the public to generate more revenue for further development. Does this suddenly mean that this clearly incomplete game is now complete?

 

This is what I am getting at; you need to use judgement and logic as opposed to an unwritten blanket rule.


I agree entirely that it is poor business practice to release a game and pretend it is beta. I see why some companies do this and the advantages are clear, and yes many people do get “suckered” into it. Does this mean that every game with a  live cash shop is automatically finished even if it is very clearly not? Come on now.

if you are confident enough in a game to take people money for in game stuff, and state you will not need to do a char whipe again, then it is a finished product.

don't let the lack of a sub fool you, cause the cash shop is the replacement for the subs.

you can argue aginst it all you want but in the end, companies that do tis are ether idiots or mone grubbing.

F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  Derros

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/16/09
Posts: 997

7/04/13 5:54:11 PM#56
Originally posted by sbarra1x

 

For Example, what if there were to be a game on Kickstarter and the proposed “launch” version will have 7 races, 7 classes, 7 continents, 7 dungeons, 7 raids and 7 warzones. Now, at some point within this hypothetical game’s development the company decide to launch an open beta, for real “open beta reasons.” At this point in said game’s development there is 1 race, 1 class, 1 continent, 1 dungeon, 1 raid and 1 warzone; we can clearly see that it is nowhere near finished and that the open beta is genuine, but guess what? The company have also decided to keep all character progression permanent as a sort of perk for beta testers, and they have opted to open their cash shop to the public to generate more revenue for further development. Does this suddenly mean that this clearly incomplete game is now complete?

 

This is what I am getting at; you need to use judgement and logic as opposed to an unwritten blanket rule.

 

Yes, that game is released, it may not be "feature complete" but it IS released. 

 

And I honestly get what Red5 is trying to say, but at this point its like PETA trying to get fish renamed Sea Kittens.

  granfadra

Novice Member

Joined: 8/20/09
Posts: 1

7/07/13 11:16:23 AM#57
This Place is full of the same stupid ppl that spam every gameforum out there /OMG THEY TAKE MY MONEY AND SAY ITS BETA OMG/ its beta if they still test the game get a grio on what beta is guys
  g4m3sh4rk

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Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 40

Get some!

7/07/13 4:00:32 PM#58
This game is doomed to fail. There is just enough game here to get you to want to pay for their beans. If I were you I would steer clear of this money sink.. After a week or two this game becomes nothing more then what it was truly meant to be... a money pit. 
  g4m3sh4rk

Novice Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 40

Get some!

7/07/13 4:01:22 PM#59
Originally posted by granfadra
This Place is full of the same stupid ppl that spam every gameforum out there /OMG THEY TAKE MY MONEY AND SAY ITS BETA OMG/ its beta if they still test the game get a grio on what beta is guys
 

^ This

  Ramonski7

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Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 2685

"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something."

7/07/13 4:27:46 PM#60
Originally posted by granfadra
This Place is full of the same stupid ppl that spam every gameforum out there /OMG THEY TAKE MY MONEY AND SAY ITS BETA OMG/ its beta if they still test the game get a grio on what beta is guys

Yeah I bet they are the same people that believe a test server is not really a test server cause the game is charging them money! I can hear thousands of frustrated devs across the world screaming in the words of Bill O'reilly during his epic meltdown:

F-K IT! WE'LL DO IT LIVE!!


"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

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