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News & Features Discussion  » [Preview] Firefall: The Miracle Patch?

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63 posts found
  HakudoJoe

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/13
Posts: 10

7/03/13 12:37:19 PM#21
Originally posted by Dakirn

Bill.. for the love of god, don't compare the FireFall Open Beta to Neverwinter. Never, ever.. EVER do that.

 

How full on kool-aid are you? Do you enjoy just swallowing everything a (bad) PR team tries to throw out there?  Saying something is "beta" is absolutely meaningless - all that matters is the level of access people have, and whether or not money is involved.   Firefall is giving people unrestricted access to the game, and charging money - it's release, NOT beta. 

 

I'm glad most reviewers can see through obvious PR bullshit and call it out.  This game is going into it's retail release in less than a week, and it's a gigantic turd of a game.  Probably the worst failure of executive leadership in modern MMO development. 

 
  kyssari

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/12/12
Posts: 159

"Reality is but a figment of our collective imaginations." -N.E.S.

7/03/13 12:40:04 PM#22

Pretty good and accurate article though one thing worth mentioning along with items dropping from mobs and crates again is that they also finally launched a Marketplace where those items, as well as crafted ones of course, can be bought and sold.

 

That being said a lot of these posters don't seem to realize Red5 has been taking cash for a long while now in the form of both Founders Packs and Red Bean purchases, as well as standing by their policy of no character wipes for years now. That doesnt really mean it was full release version as soon as they started doing so, it means people had the option to support the development of the game financially if they wanted to. Tons of games do this these days but that doesnt mean you can say its release as soon as they do. Personally I think of a game as released when players are given unrestricted access to it, aka Open Beta which is a very questionable term to begin with really, not just because they are accepting peoples money in one way or another.

 
 
  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 2986

I actually still like MMORPGs

7/03/13 1:00:12 PM#23

Really, the game's been released for a while. I bought a no-wipe closed beta access for $20 a long time ago.

Basically, it's been B2P for a while.

  MondoA2J

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/13
Posts: 259

"You are mine, I'm yours, and if we die, we die. But first we'll live." Ygritte

7/03/13 1:10:10 PM#24

I will test it during open beta for a day.

The appeal really isn't there for me.

MMORPG Gamers/Developers need a reality check!

  OG_Zorvan

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/31/12
Posts: 646

7/03/13 1:10:25 PM#25
Originally posted by BillMurphy
Originally posted by Dakirn

Bill.. for the love of god, don't compare the FireFall Open Beta to Neverwinter. Never, ever.. EVER do that.

Seriously, the Neverwinter launch/open beta fiasco is making it harder for games to do a beta without people expecting it to be in a release state and then complaining everywhere the game isn't finished... and things like you mentioned in the article aren't helping.

I've already spoken to Red 5 and their PR.  While they're calling it Open Beta, and want people to know it's still "Beta", they also know that letting anyone and everyone in, not wiping characters, and taking money and treating it like a live service means we're going to review it.

It's that simple.  They can call it what they want to call it, but when it hits Open Beta on the 9th, we'll be treating it like a live product and reviewing it because it's taking money and will for all intents and purposes be "live".

It's not just Neverwinter that did this either.  But oh-so-many F2P games across the board.  Just because they're higher profile doesn't mean they get a pass.  In fact, it likely means they'll be more under the microscope, and from what I can gather Red 5 is prepared for that.

Much respect for you on this one, Bill.

EA CEO John Riccitiello's on future microtransactions: "When you are six hours into playing Battlefield and you run out of ammo in your clip, and we ask you for a dollar to reload, you're really not very price sensitive at that point in time...We're not gouging, but we're charging."

  HakudoJoe

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/13
Posts: 10

7/03/13 1:13:20 PM#26
Originally posted by kyssari

That being said a lot of these posters don't seem to realize Red5 has been taking cash for a long while now in the form of both Founders Packs and Red Bean purchases, as well as standing by their policy of no character wipes for years now. That doesnt really mean it was full release version as soon as they started doing so, it means people had the option to support the development of the game financially if they wanted to. Tons of games do this these days but that doesnt mean you can say its release as soon as they do. Personally I think of a game as released when players are given unrestricted access to it, aka Open Beta which is a very questionable term to begin with really, not just because they are accepting peoples money in one way or another.

 

Why do you willingly swallow PR bs? Because someone affiliated with the company tried to frame things in that way?  Things are what they are, regardless of what type of spin people try  to put on them.            

.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         

Once you hit the combined point of permanent progress (no wipes) and taking money, your game is released. No amount of PR spin or framing is really going to change that.   And lets face it, the game hasn't exactly progressed much since they hit that point.   The only real noticable changes are that they've now added highly restrictive gating to a minimal amount of content, instead of actually creating a vast amount of new content.  It's literally sad at this point. 

 
  DAOWAce

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/12/03
Posts: 114

I tried so hard and got so far, but in the end it doesn't even matter.

7/03/13 1:22:50 PM#27

The fact that loot drops were removed ruined the game for my friend, as he was the type of person who liked to collect loot.

I felt the same way, but it didn't really break the game entirely for me. What broke it for me was the complete lack of content and severe server lag.  After the wipe they changed the hairstyle I used to be a buy-only one, so I just stopped playing my main.  All the sweeping changes really put me off from the game.

Honestly, if there was a wipe and everything started fresh now, I might want to start playing it again, but it's been almost a damn year since I got into beta, I've lost interest in the game now and don't think I'm actually going to go back.

DAOWAce Xfire Miniprofile
  FlyByKnight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/31/12
Posts: 508

7/03/13 2:42:48 PM#28

Are they going to remove the unjustified grind and time sink out of the game and patch in some actual engaging content?

 

Open Beta might be pretty brutal.

 

Respect to Bill Murphy for not letting Red5 "beta" excuse themselves out of Firefalls various shortcomings. Hopefully they'll take the steps necessary to make the game reasonable for public consumption at launch.

 
  Grakulen

Staff Writer

Joined: 3/07/12
Posts: 431

7/03/13 2:45:11 PM#29
Originally posted by HakudoJoe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            

Once you hit the combined point of permanent progress (no wipes) and taking money, your game is released. 

 

QFT

  DigitallyEndowed

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/14/10
Posts: 125

7/03/13 2:47:28 PM#30

Just to chime in on the whole “Open Beta Vs release” issue: it’s not so black and white! Try not to have such a two dimensional perspective.


Having a cash shop open and choosing not to wipe characters does not automatically class a game as released, finished, ready; you should make your judgements based on the games features and current state of development as opposed to these “hidden rules” that have been imagined up.


In the case of Neverwinter for example, the game was clearly fully released with an open beta tag slapped on; it was not a real open beta at all and this was obvious, but that does not mean that every game with an open beta and a cash shop is in the same situation or is following this same “business practice.”


Now I have not played Firefall for a number of months so I cannot comment on whether or not it will indeed be a true open beta, just saying...use logic and common sense!


MMORPG.com are entitled to review the game is they really believe it is (or will soon be) “finished.” I am just trying to weave some words of wisdom in between the misinformation.


  MassMan

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/23/06
Posts: 9

7/03/13 3:14:05 PM#31

 

"FireFall has no wipes and our Cash Shop is open for your money. But it's still BETA. Red 5 does not care what the definition of BETA is for the rest of the gaming industry."

 

It's confusing as fuck and it's a PR nightmare, Red5 stupidly trying to explain everyone Red5's odd definition of beta.

  lexicon1981

Novice Member

Joined: 7/03/13
Posts: 1

7/03/13 3:14:25 PM#32

Neverwinter was/is a disaster. They released way too early and all the bugs/exploits destroyed the game for me. I really hope Firefall won't do the same thing - BUT I will not be playing until I see some kind of review.

Neverwinter made sure I never, ever play or invest money into a so called F2P game until I see a review.

  MassMan

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/23/06
Posts: 9

7/03/13 3:23:44 PM#33

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/setView/news/gameId/566/showArticle/25278

Firefall News - Ready to Hand Out $1M Through 2013

“Red 5 is dedicated to supporting the future of eSports and we believe that creating a more compelling experience for participants and spectators will further the cause of competitive gaming”, said Morgan Romine, eSports Maven of Red 5 Studios. “The newly launched eSports Toolkit is just the tip of the iceburg. We will be supporting this initiative with our Mobile Gaming Unit this fall and providing a huge payout for elite competitive gamers in 2013”.

 

 

 

Personally I'm pretty disappointed in the direction FireFall has taken. Red5 started out with  promises of 1,000,000 dollars prize money in 2013 but at PAX east Red5 didn't talk about PvP at all, the CEO said the focus was all PvE.

 

The entire million seems to have been silently cancelled and Red5 wont give a strait answer. And if you push them for a strait answer, trying to get Red5 to keep their word or at least give SOME information, you get perm banned for continuous trolling.

So the million dollar prize pool was just a marketing ploy. Red5 never intended to pay out a single dime.

 
I dunno... Up to each person to judge whether to give Red5 money. I think they've lost a lot of credibility by their bombastic $1,000,000 press release that they then attempt to sweep under the rug.
  HakudoJoe

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/13
Posts: 10

7/03/13 3:25:17 PM#34
Originally posted by sbarra1x

Just to chime in on the whole “Open Beta Vs release” issue: it’s not so black and white! Try not to have such a two dimensional perspective.


Having a cash shop open and choosing not to wipe characters does not automatically class a game as released, finished, ready; you should make your judgements based on the games features and current state of development as opposed to these “hidden rules” that have been imagined up.

Yes. It does make your game released.  I don't think people understand the amount of word manipulation that's going on here.   Beta by it's definition (in the past) means that the product is not content complete, and is filled with bugs that need working out.    It meant that if the game was "officially" released in that state, it wouldn't be up to the standards of the game industry at large.   

.                                                                                                                                                                           

The problem is that PR teams have taken to the idea of applying the beta tag to a released product. Why? Because there's a large contingent of people who will be directly fooled into thinking that it's ok if a released product is incomplete if it has the mythical beta tag on it.   People aren't ok with an incomplete product if it's deemed release, but they can be fooled if you call a release product beta.  It's nothing more than hardcore deception of people who don't know any better. 

.                                                                                                                                                                      

 

Thankfully, there's plenty of people in the games journalism world who aren't giving companies a pass when they try to release woefully incomplete games and call them a beta.    Whatever reviews Firefall may get in the next week will be the reviews it deserves, make no mistake. 

 
  Schnizit

Novice Member

Joined: 8/29/09
Posts: 26

7/03/13 3:38:52 PM#35

Patch would be much better if they brought back the tech tree's. Being forced to do crafting is awful, expecially for a shooter! Need crafting just to level! 

Not sure why the awful focus on crafting...

  HakudoJoe

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/13
Posts: 10

7/03/13 3:49:21 PM#36
Originally posted by Schnizit

Patch would be much better if they brought back the tech tree's. Being forced to do crafting is awful, expecially for a shooter! Need crafting just to level! 

Not sure why the awful focus on crafting...

 

I would guess that the focus on crafting is more or less focusing on something that's "more done" than the things that aren't done.   Making things artificially slow in the one system they have that's somewhat fleshed out is a way of distracting people from the absolute dearth of content in the rest of the game.  Most of the things that were implemented in the last patch were user unfriendly features designed at ringing out max playtime on a miniscule amount of content.   You didn't think they added things like durability for the fun of the users did you? 

.                                                                                                                                                                      

In the end, the glassdoor tell-all reviews probably explain best what happened with this project. And contrary to Red 5's explanation that the first batch were mere disgruntled employees, the latest two reviews (just last month) end up confirming the first batch.

http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Red-5-Studios-Reviews-E266907.htm

.

It all paints the tale of a studio in where there were a lot of ideas and talented people, but no overriding force cracking down on people to get the meat of the project done.  Meaning that literally years of development time that could have went towards making 30-40 hours of unique content (before really repeating) went down the toilet.   Better management in the studio likely would have lead to a much more feature complete game. 

  orbitxo

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/25/06
Posts: 1166

7/03/13 4:01:39 PM#37

Its pretty clear from reading all theses posts here that noone has actually recently played FF since the last patch. or if that at all.

speculations are here left and right.

 

my advice is play the game July 9th and then comment. because right now many of you sound like

spectators watching a football game instead of actually playing in the football game.

that is all.

 
  HakudoJoe

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/13
Posts: 10

7/03/13 4:12:59 PM#38
Originally posted by orbitxo

Its pretty clear from reading all theses posts here that noone has actually recently played FF since the last patch. or if that at all.

speculations are here left and right.

 

my advice is play the game July 9th and then comment. because right now many of you sound like

spectators watching a football game instead of actually playing in the football game.

that is all.

 

It's the height of arrogance to think that the negative criticism and lack of hype for the game comes from people not playing the game. People have played the game (including the recent patch), and they're anything but impressed. Sorry?

  FlyByKnight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/31/12
Posts: 508

7/03/13 5:44:59 PM#39
Originally posted by orbitxo

Its pretty clear from reading all theses posts here that noone has actually recently played FF since the last patch. or if that at all.

speculations are here left and right.

 

my advice is play the game July 9th and then comment. because right now many of you sound like

spectators watching a football game instead of actually playing in the football game.

that is all.

 

I've been in and out of Firefall since the tree progression. Any other theories on why I don't think there isn't any viable content in the game, or why I think it's an unjustified grind fest with unreasonable time sinks and gates?  Is my opinion that the PVE encounters play like Space Invaders valid now?

 

Excuse time is over.

 
Hail Marys are always possible, I actually hope they do have a miracle patch coming.
 
  wowclones

Novice Member

Joined: 6/15/12
Posts: 133

7/03/13 6:06:21 PM#40
Originally posted by Dauzqul

I don't understand the appeal. It's not a MMO. It's ultimately a clunky Unreal Tournament with some clunky PvE mobs.

Technology isn't there for a good MMO FPS. They are all clunky...  including Planetside 2.

exactly, it blows chunks imo

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