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Hardware  » DirectX 11.2 exclusive for win 8.1 and xone

18 posts found
  GroovyFlower

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/11
Posts: 1252

Skyrim

 
OP  7/02/13 8:45:38 AM#1

It will still not pull me over to win 8 and abandon win 7 sorry microsoft ill stick with win7.

By the time games are even fully made in DX 11.2 ill prolly 2 rigs further down the timeline hehe.

Plus these tactics MS lately make towards its customers im more and more interested in linux which is supported by steam which i like as gameportal.

  Nadia

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11568

7/02/13 8:49:04 AM#2

related

http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/ms_now_confirms_directx_11_2_is_a_windows_8_1_exclusive.html

That Microsoft is using an updated version of DirectX as a carrot to encourage those still on Windows 7 or earlier to upgrade should come as no surprise: its predecessor, DirectX 11.1, is a Windows 8 exclusive.

The only real surprise is that DirectX 11.2 won't be coming to Windows 8, either, with Microsoft reserving the update for its bleeding-edge Windows 8.1 release due in the autumn.

  BearKnight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/24/13
Posts: 450

7/02/13 8:52:35 AM#3
Originally posted by GroovyFlower

It will still not pull me over to win 8 and abandon win 7 sorry microsoft ill stick with win7.

By the time games are even fully made in DX 11.2 ill prolly 2 rigs further down the timeline hehe.

Plus these tactics MS lately make towards its customers im more and more interested in linux which is supported by steam which i like as gameportal.

Everyone i know, roughly 40+ people personally, refuse to use Windows8. Neither of my parents, my step mother, my siblings, friends, co-workers, etc will touch it.

 

My father just recently bought a new laptop with Win8 on it, and he asked me to install win7 back on it because he couldn't do anything with windows8.

 

Remember what happened when they said Vista will only have Dx11 when it first came out? None cared, and Vista went the way of the Dodo. Same thing here.

 

11.2 must have nothing game or work related in it for it to force you to use Win8 for it. That, and DX12 will be out when Windows9 is released. Hopefully by then they just do a jump from Win7 -> Win9 by only upgrading performance and compatibility for applications on Win7.

 

That, and I still have applications that will only run on WinXP that even 7 cannot do simply because they're THAT old, and no longer supported :(.

 

Lastly, and what I consider the best part, I contacted Lenovo's customer support last month about getting a new Laptop. However, I did NOT want Win8 forced on a product i was going to pay $1300+ on. Customer support appologized, and said that they're being forced by a contract with Microsoft to sell their Laptops with Win7, and that their Laptop sales are down because of people like me whom do NOT want Windows8.

Needless to say I went with Sager as they still provide the choice of Win7 Professional :)!

 

My 2cents,

-Bear

  Cleffy

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/09/04
Posts: 5524

7/02/13 3:24:30 PM#4
Microsoft releases SDKs for developers to use.  In 2010 Microsoft shifted from supporting the DirectX SDK individually to including it as part of Windows SDK. This means two things. You can easily use DirectX for windows applications. DirectX updates gets locked to the Windows operating system at the time.
  AvatarBlade

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/11/06
Posts: 773

7/02/13 3:30:45 PM#5
They are doing a similar thing with Project Spark, which will only work on W8+ it seems.
  Ridelynn

Elite Member

Joined: 12/19/10
Posts: 3492

7/02/13 4:44:06 PM#6

Like it matters.

How many games out there right now ~require~ DX10? DX11?

I can think of .. 0 off the top of my head.

Almost everything will run on DX9.

The reason being: I blame console compatibility. I've heard some other people blame the failure of Microsoft to drive migration from Windows XP.

The only catch in this entire debate (and my personal premise, I admit): ~IF~ console compatibility is what is really keeping us held back in DX9, and DX11.2 will be the new console compatibility layer with XB1 - then will all the new console ports ~require~ DX11.2 (and subsequently, require Win8.1)?

Aside from that, who can blame MS from trying to push their latest and greatest product? Regardless of if you like it or not - it's their job to market it, and to compel as many people as possible to buy it. That's just capitalism at work. It doesn't mean you ~have~ to upgrade, after all, your stuff still works. Unless, of course, there happens to be a game released on DX11.2, and you happen to really want to play that game on the PC. Until that becomes a reality though, the entire Win7 vs Win8 argument is a completely moot point with relation to this particular discussion.

  DeserttFoxx

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/11/04
Posts: 2341

Cry Havok; and let loose the dogs of war.

Si vis pacem, para bellum

7/02/13 4:47:59 PM#7

You realize devs will reject the idea of that rightt? the same way they rejected dx10. Nobody wants to use a fucking tablet operating system.

 

I tolerate my phone, i have a samsung galaxy s3, its a great phone, it does a lot of cool stuff, do i want that type of operating system on my computer? hell no, why the hell would microsoft make a tablet style operating system then act surprised when people dont want to use it.

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  Sk1ppeR

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/29/12
Posts: 534

7/02/13 4:52:17 PM#8
Already running Windows 8 Pro. Waiting for Windows 8.1 eyecandy. Keep hating guys, but it really is the superior OS. I was lucky enough to purchase it in January for ~30 bucks hehe :) I mostly love the 10 second bootup from cold. It's just too sweet
  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16776

7/02/13 4:56:22 PM#9
Originally posted by Nadia

related

http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/ms_now_confirms_directx_11_2_is_a_windows_8_1_exclusive.html

That Microsoft is using an updated version of DirectX as a carrot to encourage those still on Windows 7 or earlier to upgrade should come as no surprise: its predecessor, DirectX 11.1, is a Windows 8 exclusive.

The only real surprise is that DirectX 11.2 won't be coming to Windows 8, either, with Microsoft reserving the update for its bleeding-edge Windows 8.1 release due in the autumn.

This is how they eventually got me to move from Win2K to XP so it works, but I don't see myself moving to W8 unless I buy a touchscreen. Never got Vista so I'll probably wait for W9 instead.  I did move from XP to W7 directly, and from W98 to W2K instead of Millenium so I usually skip every second OS they make anyways.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13585

7/02/13 4:57:15 PM#10

Never mind require.  How many games even use DirectX 11.1 (as opposed to 11) at all?  DirectX 11 brought three new programmable shader stages.  The big headline feature of DirectX 11.2 is what, offering an alternative way to have a GPU page to system memory when it runs out of video memory?

The difference between DirectX 11 and 11.2 amounts to some minor tinkering around the edges.  Even if a game were going to have a DirectX 11 version for PC, they might not bother with a DirectX 11.2 version because it's not worth needing to support an extra code path to take advantage of features that don't really let you do anything new.

Nor does this really differentiate the Xbox One from the PlayStation 4.  If the Xbox One will support DirectX 11.2, then AMD's GCN GPUs have all of the functionality needed.  The same functionality will be available from the same GPU architecture in the PlayStation 4, and just needs an API to properly expose it.  If AMD can write Windows drivers for it, then they can give Sony all the help they need in order to expose whatever functionality Sony cares about.

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16776

7/02/13 5:00:23 PM#11
Originally posted by Sk1ppeR
Already running Windows 8 Pro. Waiting for Windows 8.1 eyecandy. Keep hating guys, but it really is the superior OS. I was lucky enough to purchase it in January for ~30 bucks hehe :) I mostly love the 10 second bootup from cold. It's just too sweet

I don't think most of us are hating, we just don't really think it is worth the upgrade from W7 unless you have a touchscreen.

Besides, I boot my W7 on 15 seconds and I can afford that wait. Vista is another matter, and millennium, hate both of those. Vista for it using too much resources and M because it was really buggy and never got fixed.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13585

7/02/13 5:00:55 PM#12
Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

You realize devs will reject the idea of that rightt? the same way they rejected dx10. Nobody wants to use a fucking tablet operating system.

DirectX 10 brought geometry shaders, which are actually really, really useful.  The problem is that they weren't available in Windows XP, and if a game heavily relies on geometry shaders, it will take massive amounts of work to strip features out and make a DirectX 9.0c version.  If OpenGL 3.2 had launched around the same time as DirectX 10 rather than being more than two years late, it could easily have pushed a huge migration away from DirectX--or perhaps more likely, convinced Microsoft to make DirectX 10 available to XP just to avoid killing off DirectX.

  Xthos

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2650

7/02/13 5:07:34 PM#13
Originally posted by BearKnight
Originally posted by GroovyFlower

It will still not pull me over to win 8 and abandon win 7 sorry microsoft ill stick with win7.

By the time games are even fully made in DX 11.2 ill prolly 2 rigs further down the timeline hehe.

Plus these tactics MS lately make towards its customers im more and more interested in linux which is supported by steam which i like as gameportal.

Everyone i know, roughly 40+ people personally, refuse to use Windows8. Neither of my parents, my step mother, my siblings, friends, co-workers, etc will touch it.

 

My father just recently bought a new laptop with Win8 on it, and he asked me to install win7 back on it because he couldn't do anything with windows8.

 

Remember what happened when they said Vista will only have Dx11 when it first came out? None cared, and Vista went the way of the Dodo. Same thing here.

 

11.2 must have nothing game or work related in it for it to force you to use Win8 for it. That, and DX12 will be out when Windows9 is released. Hopefully by then they just do a jump from Win7 -> Win9 by only upgrading performance and compatibility for applications on Win7.

 

That, and I still have applications that will only run on WinXP that even 7 cannot do simply because they're THAT old, and no longer supported :(.

 

Lastly, and what I consider the best part, I contacted Lenovo's customer support last month about getting a new Laptop. However, I did NOT want Win8 forced on a product i was going to pay $1300+ on. Customer support appologized, and said that they're being forced by a contract with Microsoft to sell their Laptops with Win7, and that their Laptop sales are down because of people like me whom do NOT want Windows8.

Needless to say I went with Sager as they still provide the choice of Win7 Professional :)!

 

My 2cents,

-Bear

 

I must live in the twilight zone, but everyone I know doesn't mind W8, and most say they like it better, from younger ages, up to people in their 40s-50s. 

 

I bought Windows 8 for my new computers, but I use it like it is windows 7 (which I had) 99% of the time.  I am in the desktop doing everything, I generally don't have to touch the metro interface except for a few things.   I built my computers, so it was not forced, just didn't see the reason for the hate, especially when most normal users can use it like it is windows 7, but also have the benefit of anything that comes down from Microsoft like this.

 

Their are apps now to make 8 more like 7, and 8.1 should make it probably even easier to ignore the metro interface, and use the desktop for most things.

  mWo4life

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/12
Posts: 119

7/02/13 5:20:05 PM#14
Keep up this bs Microsoft, and sooner or later ppl will get fed up with for serious and start using more and more opengl. Then we all can say good bye Windows for gaming, and welcome linux. The only reason I use windows is for gamining. 
  Cleffy

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/09/04
Posts: 5524

7/03/13 12:34:21 AM#15

I think people just don't understand where Microsoft is coming from and not giving them a chance. When a game developer uses DirectX they use a build of the API from Microsoft. This can be a DirectX build from 2006 in order to support Windows XP and the XBox360. This could be the most up to date build which is the October 2012 Windows SDK build.

The developers are not going to use this API for a few years, or if they do it will be in limited numbers. They won't get the necessary market penetration if they adopt the latest and greatest at the time. No developer is using the 2010 Windows SDK version exclusively which is the Windows 7 SDK.

The way Microsoft has paired its Windows SDK with its DirectX SDK allows more flexibility in software with a simple download, and allows a developer to easily create applications for the Windows 7 and Windows Phone 7. Similarly the recent Windows SDK allows a developer to easily create applications for Windows 8, Windows RT, Windows Phone 8, and Xbox One. Unlike Windows 7, its also a lot easier to market software with Windows 8.

To me it seems obvious why DirectX11.2 is exclusive on Win8.1, its the same build of the Windows SDK.

  Thomas2006

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/16/05
Posts: 779

7/03/13 12:43:18 AM#16


Originally posted by Cleffy
I think people just don't understand where Microsoft is coming from and not giving them a chance. When a game developer uses DirectX they use a build of the API from Microsoft. This can be a DirectX build from 2006 in order to support Windows XP and the XBox360. This could be the most up to date build which is the October 2012 Windows SDK build.

The developers are not going to use this API for a few years, or if they do it will be in limited numbers. They won't get the necessary market penetration if they adopt the latest and greatest at the time. No developer is using the 2010 Windows SDK version exclusively which is the Windows 7 SDK.

The way Microsoft has paired its Windows SDK with its DirectX SDK allows more flexibility in software with a simple download, and allows a developer to easily create applications for the Windows 7 and Windows Phone 7. Similarly the recent Windows SDK allows a developer to easily create applications for Windows 8, Windows RT, Windows Phone 8, and Xbox One. Unlike Windows 7, its also a lot easier to market software with Windows 8.

To me it seems obvious why DirectX11.2 is exclusive on Win8.1, its the same build of the Windows SDK.


If there is any rumor (it has not been confirmed or denied) that Xbox One games can / could be played on Windows 8.1 then that may explain why they moving so fast and tieing it into the 8.1 OS.

It's already been leaked out if you want to get a jump on Xbox One development all you have to do is build for windows 8 and you will be set for the most part.

If that is the direction they are heading then I can see why they have fully locked the two together. Could you image.. Should I play it on my Xbox One or on my PC? Not to mention at that stage of the game, there would be zero reasion why a dev wouldnt release on both since there would be virtually no porting between the two.

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  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3883

7/03/13 12:22:20 PM#17

Everyone is so hung-up on Metro, the optional tablet-friendly GUI. But it's so easy to ignore and just carry on using what is essentially just the latest version of Windows. I've been ignoring Metro since day one.

Strip Metro away, use one of the freeware programs that restore the full Win7 GUI functionality and what you're left with is just the up-to-the minute latest version of Win7 rebranded as "8"

You guys who are 7 diehards... you did update your 7 to the latest service pack and other updates didn't you? You're not stil running the original un-updated 7 are you? 8 is just the latest 7 service pack... except this one ain't free. Although, at one point if you upgraded quickly, it virtually was... got my 64-bit 8-pro upgrade for $39.

Life goes on... if you truly hate MS, heck there are a ton of other OS out there for free. Hard to find many MMOs that will run on them, but the option is there...just saying.

The DirectX 11.2 announcement is just an update only available with 8.1 and no biggie really. But as time goes on there will be many others. Many resisted the XP->Win7 move as well and some still run XP. It's your choice and your right to not upgrade. Just don't be surprised when HW vendors focus their device driver development onr the new OS and put the old OS support on the back burner. It eventually happens with all older OS.

  DeserttFoxx

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Joined: 5/11/04
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7/03/13 12:25:56 PM#18
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

You realize devs will reject the idea of that rightt? the same way they rejected dx10. Nobody wants to use a fucking tablet operating system.

DirectX 10 brought geometry shaders, which are actually really, really useful.  The problem is that they weren't available in Windows XP, and if a game heavily relies on geometry shaders, it will take massive amounts of work to strip features out and make a DirectX 9.0c version.  If OpenGL 3.2 had launched around the same time as DirectX 10 rather than being more than two years late, it could easily have pushed a huge migration away from DirectX--or perhaps more likely, convinced Microsoft to make DirectX 10 available to XP just to avoid killing off DirectX.

I know what it brought, i also know that nobody cared, that is why there are like 3 or 4 dx10 exclusive games it basically went dx9 straight to dx 11.

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