Trending Games | ArcheAge | World of Warcraft | Destiny | Star Trek Online

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,856,559 Users Online:0
Games:740  Posts:6,240,758
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Why does FFA PvP or Always On PvP need to be global?

6 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 » Search
107 posts found
  fyerwall

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/01/04
Posts: 3197

7/02/13 9:32:28 PM#21

It doesn't need to be global. PvPers will claim it does, but it doesn't. The reason they claim it needs to be everywhere and part of everything is easily explained with UO. PvP was fun for Pvpers, specifically those of the ganking preference. When EA split the world, a majority moved to Trammel and played there, leaving the PvPers to do their own thing on Felucca. Trammel was full of life and players everywhere. Felucca was pretty much a ghost town.

PvPers want PvP to be a part of a game for the simple fact that they know, given the option, most people will opt out to do something else until they *want* to PvP. This means PvPers end up feeling like they have no one to play with, or that their choice of gameplay is being ignored. It's pretty evident in a lot of the proponents posts - usually always coming down to 'because its fun for me'.

Now a game can exist without PvP. But why should it? PvP needs to be an option in the gameplay. People should have the option to go kill each other or guilds should be able to war on each other. But again, the key word is optional. Make it mandatory and the PvE portion of the game becomes limited. Make it like EvE and PvE portion of the game becomes limited (In Eve thats fine, space looks like space looks like space. In a game world like EQ, too many different lands with unique POIs become locked out to the average PvE who does not wish to engage in any form of PvP)

There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"


  Ratero

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/19/04
Posts: 307

7/02/13 9:37:13 PM#22
Originally posted by bcbully
FFA world with a PVE area full of quests and instances.  This will give the devs a lot of freedom to design something else.

Yep... like a new game since all the PvE'ers will leave for greener pastures.

Ratero.

  craftseeker

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/11/09
Posts: 628

7/02/13 9:37:45 PM#23
Originally posted by Fusion
Originally posted by Drakynn
Originally posted by Fusion

Because "world simulation" is much more exciting that "hit that next level with chatbox"

I can pit against monsters, farm xp and loot in thousands upon thousands of single-player / Co-Op games when need arises.

If someone wants to PvP exclusively there are tousands of singleplayer/multiplayer games when the need arises.Works both ways.

You miss interpreted my meaning.

MMORPG's needs to have have BOTH un-instanced, to be a 'world simulation' of my meaning.

DF:UW is a good example of what i mean. Yes, not greatly executed, but on the right tracks

EVE is also a great example, tho lacking in entertaining combat mechanics and sub-par PVE.

I do not play either EVE or DF:UW  ( I got charged for DF:UW for a couple of months after looking at in Beta and hating it, played EVE for about a month totally bored).

I take it from your underlining that "world simulation" for you has some special meaning (wonderful gankfest perhaps) but one others do not share.  Kind of hard to argue about it if it is your own private code for something.

However I propose a hypothetical for you:  EQ Next comes out with a PvE server and an OW FFA PvP server, after six months which do you think will have the most dynamic economy, largest buildings etc?

IMHO it will be the PvE server with the PvP server being largely a collection of smoking ruins.

  Ramanadjinn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/08/11
Posts: 1311

7/02/13 9:39:27 PM#24
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Fusion
Because "world simulation" is much more exciting that "hit that next level with chatbox"

 

I can pit against monsters, farm xp and loot in thousands upon thousands of single-player / Co-Op games when need arises.




That explains why you like PvP. You didn't say whether or not you thought it required everyone's participation though. If you do think it requires everyone's participation, why?

 

 

I agree with the guy about the world simulation thing.  The why of it for me is that I want the sort of economy that comes from me being able to kill you and destroy your belongings.  I like the amount of jobs that opens up for crafters to craft more gear and people who protect crafters and people who kill people who protect crafters in that sort of economy.  If a crafter/gatherer is safe from pvp they do not need protection and i get mad at the developer because he took my jerb.

I do not agree that everyone must play that game as I do though.  I think its fine if they have servers that people can pve on all day and not worry about pvp.  those servers can be run by Blizzard, EA, Trion, etc while i play on a server run by CCP or some other game developer who makes the sort of game I want.

I think its great that there are all different types of games.  I want people to be happy playing games, whatever games they choose, but sometimes what I want just isn't going to be what you want and thats pretty much the long and short of it.  We cannot always agree.

 

 

  Notimeforbs

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/13
Posts: 297

7/02/13 9:44:36 PM#25

I don't think the problem is that people who don't like World FFA PvP don't like it because it is forced, necessarily.  I think the issue is that it is too easy to be forced into a situation you have absolutely no way of winning.  You don't even have a chance.

Ganking.  Ganking occurs in two ways: either you are totally outnumbered or you are totally outleveled.

 

1.  To me, this is the fundamental problem with World FFA PvP.  And it has to do with the Themepark nature of the game.  The areas are built around a specific array of levels.  But nothing stops higher level players from entering these areas and rolling face.  And given Themepark use of gear-based stats... the fact that they are higher level and would be more powerful anyway, the fact that their gear makes them a god in comparison to a low level player, no amount of zone-level comradery will matter.  In other words, a gank squad of level 10's of any amount will never bring down a single level 50 with tricked out gear.

There are ways around this issue, but it would require a totally different design than what we are used to seeing.  I won't go too deep into it, but basically, you have to design the game for lateral progression instead of vertical progression.  But we will never see this, so it's a moot point.

 

2.  Then there is the matter of a single 10th lvl guy being ganked by 15 10th level guys.  Again, the lone guy doesn't have a chance.  If this were a FPS like Call of Duty or something, this sort of thing happens all the time.  One guy could potentially take out the entire opposite team.  I've seen it happen before - a lot.  Hell, I've DONE it before.  But that was years ago when I was younger.  And besides that, it takes a player who really knows how to play the game well to pull off on a consistent basis.  And moreover, this is not something that a game should bank on happening by the bulk of its players in the first place.

The thing is, the sort of game where these things happen revolves entirely on player skill.  MMO's do not revolve around player skill in any shape or form.  They revolve around statistics.  One lone player, even totally min-maxed, will never take out an entire team of equal level players, unless their class is OP (which is often the case), and even then... it won't happen.  The numbers will not support it.  They'll be dead before they take out one of the gankers.

Add to all of this that it is very easy for these gankers to completely lock down an entire area to the point that many players can absolutely not do a single thing in the game until the gankers move on...  It's very easy to see how this can be frustrating.  I love open world FFA PvP, and even I can see this sucks.

 

 

However, I am not bothered by the second issue too much, so long as the first issue has been solved.  The second one is a necessary evil in my mind, and it promotes grouping instead of soloing.  Safety in numbers.  But... people just won't do it.

I've seen it progress for years - people are constantly not wanting to group in a multi-player game.  This is what baffles me.  I'm all for wanting to do what you want to do... but you first have to make sure what you want to do is even available in the game.  For instance, I don't play Skyrim and expect to drive cars.  I'm tired of MMO's being released that cater to people who are really just looking for a single player game with a chat box.

I don't care what anyone says: if a Dev says their game is going to have World FFA PvP... if you don't like it... don't play it.  What you don't get to do is go into the game and start complaining and begging them to change it or add rules that previously did not exist, just so you don't have to deal with a part of the game that was designed to exist.  The game isn't for you.  You either accept that or go play a different game that is more to your liking.

I think people who don't want a game where there is World FFA PvP really just want a Co-op RPG... with crafting.  Stop trying to make MMO's into that.  MMO's provide a different experience.  They provide experiences for all facets of gameplay.  If you don't like it - play something else.

I'm not saying World PvP isn't without its issues.  I'm saying that getting rid of it and complaining you don't want it are not resolving those issues.

  Fusion

Old School

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 1364

7/02/13 9:46:50 PM#26
Originally posted by craftseeker
Originally posted by Fusion
Originally posted by Drakynn
Originally posted by Fusion

Because "world simulation" is much more exciting that "hit that next level with chatbox"

I can pit against monsters, farm xp and loot in thousands upon thousands of single-player / Co-Op games when need arises.

If someone wants to PvP exclusively there are tousands of singleplayer/multiplayer games when the need arises.Works both ways.

You miss interpreted my meaning.

MMORPG's needs to have have BOTH un-instanced, to be a 'world simulation' of my meaning.

DF:UW is a good example of what i mean. Yes, not greatly executed, but on the right tracks

EVE is also a great example, tho lacking in entertaining combat mechanics and sub-par PVE.

However I propose a hypothetical for you:  EQ Next comes out with a PvE server and an OW FFA PvP server, after six months which do you think will have the most dynamic economy, largest buildings etc?

IMHO it will be the PvE server with the PvP server being largely a collection of smoking ruins.

You meant, which will have an overbloated economy, where a pumpkin pie costs 1pp and a bronze dirk for level 6 will cost 15pp, have the largest houses filled with stuff that serves no purpose at the end of the day, because nothing can be "taken" from you? No risk, all reward.. i don't find that entertaining at all and that's what games are for after all, entertainment.

I agree, it'll probably be the PVE server, where as the other server will have people working together to rebuild those smoking ruins.

Currently playing: -

Waiting for: Class4.

Dead and Buried: ESO, NWO, GW2, SWTOR, Darkfall, AO, AC2, Vanguard, CoH/V, EnB, EVE, Neocron, FE, EQ, EQ2, DAoC, FFXI, FFXIV, SWG, WoW, and billions of eastern junks!

  Ramanadjinn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/08/11
Posts: 1311

7/02/13 9:52:19 PM#27
Originally posted by craftseeker
 

However I propose a hypothetical for you:  EQ Next comes out with a PvE server and an OW FFA PvP server, after six months which do you think will have the most dynamic economy, largest buildings etc?

IMHO it will be the PvE server with the PvP server being largely a collection of smoking ruins.

 

If EQ Next comes out and is a linear quest based PVE game with permanent player gear and a tacked on pvp enabled server that is exactly how it will play out indeed.  With those sorts of games the pvp servers never do nearly as well, you have a valid point there.

  Fusion

Old School

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 1364

7/02/13 9:54:35 PM#28
Originally posted by Notimeforbs

 

I've seen it progress for years - people are constantly not wanting to group in a multi-player game.  This is what baffles me.  I'm all for wanting to do what you want to do... but you first have to make sure what you want to do is even available in the game.  For instance, I don't play Skyrim and expect to drive cars.  I'm tired of MMO's being released that cater to people who are really just looking for a single player game with a chat box.

I don't care what anyone says: if a Dev says their game is going to have World FFA PvP... if you don't like it... don't play it.  What you don't get to do is go into the game and start complaining and begging them to change it or add rules that previously did not exist, just so you don't have to deal with a part of the game that was designed to exist.  The game isn't for you.  You either accept that or go play a different game that is more to your liking.

I think people who don't want a game where there is World FFA PvP really just want a Co-op RPG... with crafting.  Stop trying to make MMO's into that.  MMO's provide a different experience.  They provide experiences for all facets of gameplay.  If you don't like it - play something else.

I'm not saying World PvP isn't without its issues.  I'm saying that getting rid of it and complaining you don't want it are not resolving those issues.

 

Touché

Currently playing: -

Waiting for: Class4.

Dead and Buried: ESO, NWO, GW2, SWTOR, Darkfall, AO, AC2, Vanguard, CoH/V, EnB, EVE, Neocron, FE, EQ, EQ2, DAoC, FFXI, FFXIV, SWG, WoW, and billions of eastern junks!

  craftseeker

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/11/09
Posts: 628

7/02/13 10:12:37 PM#29

Originally posted by Notimeforbs

 

I don't care what anyone says: if a Dev says their game is going to have World FFA PvP... if you don't like it... don't play it.   The game isn't for you.  You either accept that or go play a different game that is more to your liking.

I think people who don't want a game where there is World FFA PvP really just want a Co-op RPG... with crafting.  Stop trying to make MMO's into that.  MMO's provide a different experience.  They provide experiences for all facets of gameplay.  If you don't like it - play something else.

I'm not saying World PvP isn't without its issues.  I'm saying that getting rid of it and complaining you don't want it are not resolving those issues.

Firstly MMORPG's are a more diverse thing than you pretend.  Yest there are PvP focused games but there are also exclusively crafting and building games.  There are many different points on the spectrum.

Secondly PvP will always have a place in the overall mix of MMORPG's more PvP in some less or none in others.

Now as an exclusively PvE players I generally do not play high PvP games. I have tried some of them and avoided others entirely,  I do not post saying game X has too much PvP and would be better without it, I simply do not play it.

This topic, however, addresses all MMORPG's and not just those that their Developers set out to make a PvP game. In fact many of us are responding to this thread in the context of Evequest NEXT and in this context it is completely unclear what the Dev's intend to give us in this game.

Finally there are many forms PvP can take. To return to the thread title there is no need for always on FFA PvP to be global. There are many options that is just one of them,.

  Theocritus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3613

7/02/13 10:20:56 PM#30
I can't remember the name of the game but there was a FFA PVP game where you could choose one race that did not PVP at all.....I thought it was a very itneresting concept as I would like alot of these games but I do not like FFA PVP at all.......Im no sure how many people played taht race but I know I would have.
  Notimeforbs

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/13
Posts: 297

7/02/13 10:46:17 PM#31
Originally posted by craftseeker

Originally posted by Notimeforbs

 

I don't care what anyone says: if a Dev says their game is going to have World FFA PvP... if you don't like it... don't play it.   The game isn't for you.  You either accept that or go play a different game that is more to your liking.

I think people who don't want a game where there is World FFA PvP really just want a Co-op RPG... with crafting.  Stop trying to make MMO's into that.  MMO's provide a different experience.  They provide experiences for all facets of gameplay.  If you don't like it - play something else.

I'm not saying World PvP isn't without its issues.  I'm saying that getting rid of it and complaining you don't want it are not resolving those issues.

Firstly MMORPG's are a more diverse thing than you pretend.  Yest there are PvP focused games but there are also exclusively crafting and building games.  There are many different points on the spectrum.

Secondly PvP will always have a place in the overall mix of MMORPG's more PvP in some less or none in others.

Now as an exclusively PvE players I generally do not play high PvP games. I have tried some of them and avoided others entirely,  I do not post saying game X has too much PvP and would be better without it, I simply do not play it.

This topic, however, addresses all MMORPG's and not just those that their Developers set out to make a PvP game. In fact many of us are responding to this thread in the context of Evequest NEXT and in this context it is completely unclear what the Dev's intend to give us in this game.

Finally there are many forms PvP can take. To return to the thread title there is no need for always on FFA PvP to be global. There are many options that is just one of them,.

So... I don't understand what your issue is.

If the game you want to play, doesn't have a feature you like, or has a feature you don't like - either accept it as it is, or move along to another game that is more agreeable with you.

We aren't talking about crafting and building.  We're talking about PvP.  Why would I enter into a thread about PvP and start talking about crafting and building?

MMO's are more diverse than I pretend?  Did you not just quote me as saying, "They [MMO's] provide experiences for all facets of gameplay"?  How is this me pretending they aren't diverse?  I'm confused.  What part of that statement implies that I am not aware that there is more to an MMO than PvP?  Take off the blinders, fella.  Not everyone who likes to PvP is a baffoon who has no idea about anything other than their own desires.

We aren't talking about where PvP's place is.  We're talking about Open World FFA PvP.  Did I talk about the characteristics of Arena PvP?  No.  I was on point the entire time.  Always on FFA PvP has a place if the Devs say it has a place.  End of story.  You don't get to whine and change it.  That is a royal "you".  I'm not speaking about YOU directly.

If you don't play high tolerance PvP games - why are you even bothering to comment in a thread that asks a question about Open World FFA PvP?  It's implied - an MMO that is not high tolerance PvP oriented isn't going to have Open World FFA PvP.

If we don't know what EQN will offer, and the point of the thread is all speculation on that game - then anything anyone says is irrelevant.  It could be high tolerence... it might not be.  Who knows?  But that is beside the point.  The OP asked a question specifically about Open World FFA PvP.  I gave my thoughts on the matter.

Always on FFA PvP is an issue dictated by the game developers.  Sometimes developers don't have it.  Fine.  I'm sure it's a great game.  Sometimes they do.  Fine.  More power to them.  If we're going to speculate on this under the president of the unveiled EQN.... I still don't know how anything I said is wrong or off-topic.

  StonesDK

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/06/11
Posts: 1833

7/02/13 11:00:31 PM#32
Originally posted by Notimeforbs

I don't care what anyone says: if a Dev says their game is going to have World FFA PvP... if you don't like it... don't play it.  What you don't get to do is go into the game and start complaining and begging them to change it or add rules that previously did not exist, just so you don't have to deal with a part of the game that was designed to exist.  The game isn't for you.  You either accept that or go play a different game that is more to your liking.

One of the problems with this, is there's a seemingly significant (if you go by singleplayer sandboxes popularity) group of people who want to play sandbox games but not wanting to deal with FFA PvP. Telling them to go play something else instead of whining about existing rules is all fine and dandy but there really isn't other games to go to. If you want to play a sandbox and more specifically a fantasy sandbox with RPG elements, you know swords, bows dragons magic, the whole nine you have have what to choose from again?

Maybe the solution to your gripe would be more diverse choices

  craftseeker

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/11/09
Posts: 628

7/02/13 11:03:13 PM#33
Originally posted by Notimeforbs
Originally posted by craftseeker

Originally posted by Notimeforbs

 

I don't care what anyone says: if a Dev says their game is going to have World FFA PvP... if you don't like it... don't play it.   The game isn't for you.  You either accept that or go play a different game that is more to your liking.

I think people who don't want a game where there is World FFA PvP really just want a Co-op RPG... with crafting.  Stop trying to make MMO's into that.  MMO's provide a different experience.  They provide experiences for all facets of gameplay.  If you don't like it - play something else.

I'm not saying World PvP isn't without its issues.  I'm saying that getting rid of it and complaining you don't want it are not resolving those issues.

Firstly MMORPG's are a more diverse thing than you pretend.  Yest there are PvP focused games but there are also exclusively crafting and building games.  There are many different points on the spectrum.

Secondly PvP will always have a place in the overall mix of MMORPG's more PvP in some less or none in others.

Now as an exclusively PvE players I generally do not play high PvP games. I have tried some of them and avoided others entirely,  I do not post saying game X has too much PvP and would be better without it, I simply do not play it.

This topic, however, addresses all MMORPG's and not just those that their Developers set out to make a PvP game. In fact many of us are responding to this thread in the context of Evequest NEXT and in this context it is completely unclear what the Dev's intend to give us in this game.

Finally there are many forms PvP can take. To return to the thread title there is no need for always on FFA PvP to be global. There are many options that is just one of them,.

So... I don't understand what your issue is.

If the game you want to play, doesn't have a feature you like, or has a feature you don't like - either accept it as it is, or move along to another game that is more agreeable with you.

We aren't talking about crafting and building.  We're talking about PvP.  Why would I enter into a thread about PvP and start talking about crafting and building?

MMO's are more diverse than I pretend?  Did you not just quote me as saying, "They [MMO's] provide experiences for all facets of gameplay"?  How is this me pretending they aren't diverse?  I'm confused.  What part of that statement implies that I am not aware that there is more to an MMO than PvP?  Take off the blinders, fella.  Not everyone who likes to PvP is a baffoon who has no idea about anything other than their own desires.

We aren't talking about where PvP's place is.  We're talking about Open World FFA PvP.  Did I talk about the characteristics of Arena PvP?  No.  I was on point the entire time.  Always on FFA PvP has a place if the Devs say it has a place.  End of story.  You don't get to whine and change it.  That is a royal "you".  I'm not speaking about YOU directly.

If you don't play high tolerance PvP games - why are you even bothering to comment in a thread that asks a question about Open World FFA PvP?  It's implied - an MMO that is not high tolerance PvP oriented isn't going to have Open World FFA PvP.

If we don't know what EQN will offer, and the point of the thread is all speculation on that game - then anything anyone says is irrelevant.  It could be high tolerence... it might not be.  Who knows?  But that is beside the point.  The OP asked a question specifically about Open World FFA PvP.  I gave my thoughts on the matter.

Always on FFA PvP is an issue dictated by the game developers.  Sometimes developers don't have it.  Fine.  I'm sure it's a great game.  Sometimes they do.  Fine.  More power to them.  If we're going to speculate on this under the president of the unveiled EQN.... I still don't know how anything I said is wrong or off-topic.

Hmm either we are in agreement and you are just being argumentative or deliberately avoiding the point.

The original post:

Originally posted by lizardbones

This is something I've wondered about, but not really understood the logic of. It has definitely gotten a lot more attention recently with the pending release of EQN information.

I understand that PvP is more exciting, can add something akin to a political element to a game, and can even make items in the economy more valuable, but I've never understood the insistence that if there is FFA PvP in a game everyone must participate.

For example, if there are safe areas and unsafe areas, the unsafe areas must contain more valuable items. Why? To me this seems like a mechanic that arbitrarily limits the people who would want to play a game. It seems like the people who would want to PvP would hang out in the unsafe areas and the people who don't like PvP would hang out in the safe areas.

I've also gotten the impression, possibly wrongly, that people who like FFA, Always On PvP are against the idea of having two different server types, one with the PvP rule set and one with the PvP rule set. Why? It seems like a good idea for people who like PvP to be on one server and people who don't want PvP on all the time on another server.

So, what are your thoughts on this? Why must FFA or Always On PvP be universal or all encompassing?

So what are your thoughts on why FFA PvP must be always on, universal or all encompassing?

My opinion is that having two different server types is the best option for EQ Next, and indeed for most MMO's.  Of course there is the place for exclusive niche products, heck I even kicked up some dollars for Camelot Unchained even though I do not intend to ever play it.

  Vorthanion

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1917

7/02/13 11:08:39 PM#34
It's all about having plenty of victims to victimize.  Developers who like this sort of thing are no better than the gamers who demand it.  Hence plenty of games that have pvp where the developers purposefully leave out mechanics that protect victims of abuse or harassment.

  Notimeforbs

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/13
Posts: 297

7/02/13 11:35:32 PM#35
Originally posted by craftseeker
Originally posted by Notimeforbs
Originally posted by craftseeker

Originally posted by Notimeforbs

 

I don't care what anyone says: if a Dev says their game is going to have World FFA PvP... if you don't like it... don't play it.   The game isn't for you.  You either accept that or go play a different game that is more to your liking.

I think people who don't want a game where there is World FFA PvP really just want a Co-op RPG... with crafting.  Stop trying to make MMO's into that.  MMO's provide a different experience.  They provide experiences for all facets of gameplay.  If you don't like it - play something else.

I'm not saying World PvP isn't without its issues.  I'm saying that getting rid of it and complaining you don't want it are not resolving those issues.

Firstly MMORPG's are a more diverse thing than you pretend.  Yest there are PvP focused games but there are also exclusively crafting and building games.  There are many different points on the spectrum.

Secondly PvP will always have a place in the overall mix of MMORPG's more PvP in some less or none in others.

Now as an exclusively PvE players I generally do not play high PvP games. I have tried some of them and avoided others entirely,  I do not post saying game X has too much PvP and would be better without it, I simply do not play it.

This topic, however, addresses all MMORPG's and not just those that their Developers set out to make a PvP game. In fact many of us are responding to this thread in the context of Evequest NEXT and in this context it is completely unclear what the Dev's intend to give us in this game.

Finally there are many forms PvP can take. To return to the thread title there is no need for always on FFA PvP to be global. There are many options that is just one of them,.

So... I don't understand what your issue is.

If the game you want to play, doesn't have a feature you like, or has a feature you don't like - either accept it as it is, or move along to another game that is more agreeable with you.

We aren't talking about crafting and building.  We're talking about PvP.  Why would I enter into a thread about PvP and start talking about crafting and building?

MMO's are more diverse than I pretend?  Did you not just quote me as saying, "They [MMO's] provide experiences for all facets of gameplay"?  How is this me pretending they aren't diverse?  I'm confused.  What part of that statement implies that I am not aware that there is more to an MMO than PvP?  Take off the blinders, fella.  Not everyone who likes to PvP is a baffoon who has no idea about anything other than their own desires.

We aren't talking about where PvP's place is.  We're talking about Open World FFA PvP.  Did I talk about the characteristics of Arena PvP?  No.  I was on point the entire time.  Always on FFA PvP has a place if the Devs say it has a place.  End of story.  You don't get to whine and change it.  That is a royal "you".  I'm not speaking about YOU directly.

If you don't play high tolerance PvP games - why are you even bothering to comment in a thread that asks a question about Open World FFA PvP?  It's implied - an MMO that is not high tolerance PvP oriented isn't going to have Open World FFA PvP.

If we don't know what EQN will offer, and the point of the thread is all speculation on that game - then anything anyone says is irrelevant.  It could be high tolerence... it might not be.  Who knows?  But that is beside the point.  The OP asked a question specifically about Open World FFA PvP.  I gave my thoughts on the matter.

Always on FFA PvP is an issue dictated by the game developers.  Sometimes developers don't have it.  Fine.  I'm sure it's a great game.  Sometimes they do.  Fine.  More power to them.  If we're going to speculate on this under the president of the unveiled EQN.... I still don't know how anything I said is wrong or off-topic.

Hmm either we are in agreement and you are just being argumentative or deliberately avoiding the point.

The original post:

Originally posted by lizardbones

This is something I've wondered about, but not really understood the logic of. It has definitely gotten a lot more attention recently with the pending release of EQN information.

I understand that PvP is more exciting, can add something akin to a political element to a game, and can even make items in the economy more valuable, but I've never understood the insistence that if there is FFA PvP in a game everyone must participate.

For example, if there are safe areas and unsafe areas, the unsafe areas must contain more valuable items. Why? To me this seems like a mechanic that arbitrarily limits the people who would want to play a game. It seems like the people who would want to PvP would hang out in the unsafe areas and the people who don't like PvP would hang out in the safe areas.

I've also gotten the impression, possibly wrongly, that people who like FFA, Always On PvP are against the idea of having two different server types, one with the PvP rule set and one with the PvP rule set. Why? It seems like a good idea for people who like PvP to be on one server and people who don't want PvP on all the time on another server.

So, what are your thoughts on this? Why must FFA or Always On PvP be universal or all encompassing?

So what are your thoughts on why FFA PvP must be always on, universal or all encompassing?

My opinion is that having two different server types is the best option for EQ Next, and indeed for most MMO's.  Of course there is the place for exclusive niche products, heck I even kicked up some dollars for Camelot Unchained even though I do not intend to ever play it.

Why should FFA PvP always be on?  Well, because if it isn't... then it isn't FFA PvP - that's why.  I'm pretty certain I covered this.

Why shouldn't there be servers that have them always off?  Well, because that's the same thing as demanding special rules to applied to a game that was designed to have FFA PvP - that's why.  If that is not your thing - then move to another game that is more agreeable to you.  I'm pretty sure I covered this as well.

The only person being argumentative is you.  I've stated the same thing three times now.

  craftseeker

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/11/09
Posts: 628

7/02/13 11:58:02 PM#36
Originally posted by Notimeforbs
Originally posted by craftseeker

Hmm either we are in agreement and you are just being argumentative or deliberately avoiding the point.

The original post:

Originally posted by lizardbones

This is something I've wondered about, but not really understood the logic of. It has definitely gotten a lot more attention recently with the pending release of EQN information.

I understand that PvP is more exciting, can add something akin to a political element to a game, and can even make items in the economy more valuable, but I've never understood the insistence that if there is FFA PvP in a game everyone must participate.

For example, if there are safe areas and unsafe areas, the unsafe areas must contain more valuable items. Why? To me this seems like a mechanic that arbitrarily limits the people who would want to play a game. It seems like the people who would want to PvP would hang out in the unsafe areas and the people who don't like PvP would hang out in the safe areas.

I've also gotten the impression, possibly wrongly, that people who like FFA, Always On PvP are against the idea of having two different server types, one with the PvP rule set and one with the PvP rule set. Why? It seems like a good idea for people who like PvP to be on one server and people who don't want PvP on all the time on another server.

So, what are your thoughts on this? Why must FFA or Always On PvP be universal or all encompassing?

So what are your thoughts on why FFA PvP must be always on, universal or all encompassing?

My opinion is that having two different server types is the best option for EQ Next, and indeed for most MMO's.  Of course there is the place for exclusive niche products, heck I even kicked up some dollars for Camelot Unchained even though I do not intend to ever play it.

Why should FFA PvP always be on?  Well, because if it isn't... then it isn't FFA PvP - that's why.  I'm pretty certain I covered this.

Why shouldn't there be servers that have them always off?  Well, because that's the same thing as demanding special rules to applied to a game that was designed to have FFA PvP - that's why.  If that is not your thing - then move to another game that is more agreeable to you.  I'm pretty sure I covered this as well.

The only person being argumentative is you.  I've stated the same thing three times now.

So what you are saying is:

  • You cannot have FFA PvP in a game unless every server running the game has FFA PvP?
Now I have said numerous times I have no problem with any form of PvP, but if it is compulsory in a particular game I will not play it.  As for EQ Next as I do want to play that game I do not want it to have any form of compulsory PvP, as the developers have not revealed the extent of PvP in that game (although indicating that it will not be compulsory) I think that is a valid point to make.
 
As to the argument that you cannot have FFA PvP in a game unless every server running the game has FFA PvP why on earth not?  Your statement about special rules and design falls down if the developers have set out to make a game that provides for both on separate servers. It becomes particularly irrelevant if you regard FFA PvP as the "special rules" tacked onto a PvE game and genre. Which I do.
  waynejr2

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3734

RIP City of Heroes!

7/03/13 12:07:26 AM#37
Originally posted by Notimeforbs

I don't think the problem is that people who don't like World FFA PvP don't like it because it is forced, necessarily.  I think the issue is that it is too easy to be forced into a situation you have absolutely no way of winning.  You don't even have a chance.

Ganking.  Ganking occurs in two ways: either you are totally outnumbered or you are totally outleveled.

 

1.  To me, this is the fundamental problem with World FFA PvP.  And it has to do with the Themepark nature of the game.  The areas are built around a specific array of levels.  But nothing stops higher level players from entering these areas and rolling face.  And given Themepark use of gear-based stats... the fact that they are higher level and would be more powerful anyway, the fact that their gear makes them a god in comparison to a low level player, no amount of zone-level comradery will matter.  In other words, a gank squad of level 10's of any amount will never bring down a single level 50 with tricked out gear.

There are ways around this issue, but it would require a totally different design than what we are used to seeing.  I won't go too deep into it, but basically, you have to design the game for lateral progression instead of vertical progression.  But we will never see this, so it's a moot point.

 

2.  Then there is the matter of a single 10th lvl guy being ganked by 15 10th level guys.  Again, the lone guy doesn't have a chance.  If this were a FPS like Call of Duty or something, this sort of thing happens all the time.  One guy could potentially take out the entire opposite team.  I've seen it happen before - a lot.  Hell, I've DONE it before.  But that was years ago when I was younger.  And besides that, it takes a player who really knows how to play the game well to pull off on a consistent basis.  And moreover, this is not something that a game should bank on happening by the bulk of its players in the first place.

The thing is, the sort of game where these things happen revolves entirely on player skill.  MMO's do not revolve around player skill in any shape or form.  They revolve around statistics.  One lone player, even totally min-maxed, will never take out an entire team of equal level players, unless their class is OP (which is often the case), and even then... it won't happen.  The numbers will not support it.  They'll be dead before they take out one of the gankers.

Add to all of this that it is very easy for these gankers to completely lock down an entire area to the point that many players can absolutely not do a single thing in the game until the gankers move on...  It's very easy to see how this can be frustrating.  I love open world FFA PvP, and even I can see this sucks.

 

 

However, I am not bothered by the second issue too much, so long as the first issue has been solved.  The second one is a necessary evil in my mind, and it promotes grouping instead of soloing.  Safety in numbers.  But... people just won't do it.

I've seen it progress for years - people are constantly not wanting to group in a multi-player game.  This is what baffles me.  I'm all for wanting to do what you want to do... but you first have to make sure what you want to do is even available in the game.  For instance, I don't play Skyrim and expect to drive cars.  I'm tired of MMO's being released that cater to people who are really just looking for a single player game with a chat box.

I don't care what anyone says: if a Dev says their game is going to have World FFA PvP... if you don't like it... don't play it.  What you don't get to do is go into the game and start complaining and begging them to change it or add rules that previously did not exist, just so you don't have to deal with a part of the game that was designed to exist.  The game isn't for you.  You either accept that or go play a different game that is more to your liking.

I think people who don't want a game where there is World FFA PvP really just want a Co-op RPG... with crafting.  Stop trying to make MMO's into that.  MMO's provide a different experience.  They provide experiences for all facets of gameplay.  If you don't like it - play something else.

I'm not saying World PvP isn't without its issues.  I'm saying that getting rid of it and complaining you don't want it are not resolving those issues.

 These games are RPGs (as in mmoRPG) which implies character progression.  If you don't like that with your pvp, then you have FPS games for "true" pvp.  I don't understand why hardcore pvp players insist on playing mmorpg when you have your games waiting for you.

  Notimeforbs

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/13
Posts: 297

7/03/13 12:42:47 AM#38
Originally posted by craftseeker
Condensed for the sake of space

So what you are saying is:

  • You cannot have FFA PvP in a game unless every server running the game has FFA PvP?
Now I have said numerous times I have no problem with any form of PvP, but if it is compulsory in a particular game I will not play it.  As for EQ Next as I do want to play that game I do not want it to have any form of compulsory PvP, as the developers have not revealed the extent of PvP in that game (although indicating that it will not be compulsory) I think that is a valid point to make.
 
As to the argument that you cannot have FFA PvP in a game unless every server running the game has FFA PvP why on earth not?  Your statement about special rules and design falls down if the developers have set out to make a game that provides for both on separate servers. It becomes particularly irrelevant if you regard FFA PvP as the "special rules" tacked onto a PvE game and genre. Which I do.

No.

FFA PvP can only exist if it is Always On.  If it isn't Always On, then it isn't FFA PvP.  It's something else.

If the Devs say their game will have this feature, and someone who doesn't like it willingly plays the game anyway, they do not have the right to complain for the game to change according to their liking.  Go find another game.  I'm sorry, this isn't the game for you.

If the Devs do not offer special server rules from the outset, then it is obvious that they did not intend on providing an experience that does not offer FFA PvP.  In which case, people who play the game wanting a different experience need to move along and stop trying to change the game that goes against what the Devs designed it to do.  Or, they can stay... and try to enjoy the experience.

The issue about different server rules was something I never addressed directly, specifically because I figured that it was self-explanatory in what I already stated.  "If the Devs say this and you don't like it - move along."  Why would this statement not apply to anything the Devs say?  I was speaking specifically about FFA PvP when I addressed the issue, because the thread isn't about crafting, in-game weddings, or fishing.  Sorry... I wasn't thinking about those things because I was trying to answer his question.

You seem like a smart person, so I will assume that you would suspect that they would offer different server rules.  I'm a smart person, and I assume that they will too.  In which case, your questions for me are irrelevant since if we are both aware of the possibility, then we must be aware of what that would mean for servers that are not FFA PvP enabled... they won't have FFA PvP.  In which case, you should refer to what I said to people who want to change a game that was never promised to be what they want, "If the Devs said it and you don't like it - move along."

The reason I did not get as specific into this as I am now, is because we don't know what EQN will offer.  The Devs have said NOTHING.  By this logic, I default to the defensive.  If the Devs say FFA PvP with no option of different servers - move along.  This is not the game for you - don't try to change it.

But, again, because you and I are smart people... we both know that that is a ludicrous insinuation, even if it must be said in defense of what is right and just.  EverQuest has historically been a PvE focussed game.  They would never not have the optional server for a disabled FFA PvP game experience.  If they did... I'd be the first to be surprised.

 

HOWEVER...

As for my personal opinion on why there should NOT be optional servers if the game allows for FFA PvP:

When I played SWTOR back when it was launched, I played on a PvP-RP server.  Basically, that means that people who enjoy FFA PvP as equally as PvE content, should play on a PvP-RP server.  I like both equally, thus I play on that server.  Other players who specifically enjoy PvP and could care less for PvE typically play on the PvP servers.  PvE players play on the PvE servers.  You know how this works... because you're smart.

Now, what I experienced in this game changed my attitude about this issue entirely.

Two weeks after Launch, Bioware goes into heavy class Nerfing.  Why?  Because of PvP imbalances.  Now, I could write a novel on how much of a bonehead move they made in how they went about these nerfs, but whatever.  They did some hardcore nerfing, specifically because some classes were owning total face in PvP.

These nerfs did not just affect the PvP balance.  They affecting the balance of everything - including people who play on PvE servers who have no care in the world for PvP.  And even worse, there was absolutely no issues whatsoever with the class balance in PvE.  This is the making for a gigantic shit-storm.  It would be just as bad if it were the other way around.

So, as cruel and unfair as it sounds to say optional servers should not be available - I have to stand by my original statement when it pertains to ANY game, including EQN.  "If the Devs say there is FFA PvP, and you don't like it.... Move along."  You will be doing yourself a favor, because you won't have to go through the trouble of experiencing nerf after nerf after nerf of your character whom you only use for PvE purposes.

  aRtFuLThinG

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/30/09
Posts: 1021

7/03/13 12:45:05 AM#39
Originally posted by waynejr2

 These games are RPGs (as in mmoRPG) which implies character progression.  If you don't like that with your pvp, then you have FPS games for "true" pvp.  I don't understand why hardcore pvp players insist on playing mmorpg when you have your games waiting for you.

I think it might be because most FPS lacks customization and individualization options - they are too simplistic.

 

MMO PvPers generally like playing MMO I think because they liked to be recognised and be able to be notorious. The problem with  just FPS is they usually lack deep, diversity and a sense of individually.  I would say developers are partly to blame for that (ie. they automatically assumed that FPS players don't care about individually and looks, so just give them kill kill kill gameplay).

 

Which is I think part of the reason why games like GTA and Saint Row becomes quite successful - there are some depth and customization in their kill kill kill-ness.

  Notimeforbs

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/13
Posts: 297

7/03/13 12:48:05 AM#40
Originally posted by waynejr2
Originally posted by Notimeforbs

I don't think the problem is that people who don't like World FFA PvP don't like it because it is forced, necessarily.  I think the issue is that it is too easy to be forced into a situation you have absolutely no way of winning.  You don't even have a chance.

Ganking.  Ganking occurs in two ways: either you are totally outnumbered or you are totally outleveled.

 

1.  To me, this is the fundamental problem with World FFA PvP.  And it has to do with the Themepark nature of the game.  The areas are built around a specific array of levels.  But nothing stops higher level players from entering these areas and rolling face.  And given Themepark use of gear-based stats... the fact that they are higher level and would be more powerful anyway, the fact that their gear makes them a god in comparison to a low level player, no amount of zone-level comradery will matter.  In other words, a gank squad of level 10's of any amount will never bring down a single level 50 with tricked out gear.

There are ways around this issue, but it would require a totally different design than what we are used to seeing.  I won't go too deep into it, but basically, you have to design the game for lateral progression instead of vertical progression.  But we will never see this, so it's a moot point.

 

2.  Then there is the matter of a single 10th lvl guy being ganked by 15 10th level guys.  Again, the lone guy doesn't have a chance.  If this were a FPS like Call of Duty or something, this sort of thing happens all the time.  One guy could potentially take out the entire opposite team.  I've seen it happen before - a lot.  Hell, I've DONE it before.  But that was years ago when I was younger.  And besides that, it takes a player who really knows how to play the game well to pull off on a consistent basis.  And moreover, this is not something that a game should bank on happening by the bulk of its players in the first place.

The thing is, the sort of game where these things happen revolves entirely on player skill.  MMO's do not revolve around player skill in any shape or form.  They revolve around statistics.  One lone player, even totally min-maxed, will never take out an entire team of equal level players, unless their class is OP (which is often the case), and even then... it won't happen.  The numbers will not support it.  They'll be dead before they take out one of the gankers.

Add to all of this that it is very easy for these gankers to completely lock down an entire area to the point that many players can absolutely not do a single thing in the game until the gankers move on...  It's very easy to see how this can be frustrating.  I love open world FFA PvP, and even I can see this sucks.

 

 

However, I am not bothered by the second issue too much, so long as the first issue has been solved.  The second one is a necessary evil in my mind, and it promotes grouping instead of soloing.  Safety in numbers.  But... people just won't do it.

I've seen it progress for years - people are constantly not wanting to group in a multi-player game.  This is what baffles me.  I'm all for wanting to do what you want to do... but you first have to make sure what you want to do is even available in the game.  For instance, I don't play Skyrim and expect to drive cars.  I'm tired of MMO's being released that cater to people who are really just looking for a single player game with a chat box.

I don't care what anyone says: if a Dev says their game is going to have World FFA PvP... if you don't like it... don't play it.  What you don't get to do is go into the game and start complaining and begging them to change it or add rules that previously did not exist, just so you don't have to deal with a part of the game that was designed to exist.  The game isn't for you.  You either accept that or go play a different game that is more to your liking.

I think people who don't want a game where there is World FFA PvP really just want a Co-op RPG... with crafting.  Stop trying to make MMO's into that.  MMO's provide a different experience.  They provide experiences for all facets of gameplay.  If you don't like it - play something else.

I'm not saying World PvP isn't without its issues.  I'm saying that getting rid of it and complaining you don't want it are not resolving those issues.

 These games are RPGs (as in mmoRPG) which implies character progression.  If you don't like that with your pvp, then you have FPS games for "true" pvp.  I don't understand why hardcore pvp players insist on playing mmorpg when you have your games waiting for you.

... What are you even talking about?

6 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 » Search