Trending Games | The Crew | Landmark | Neverwinter | Guild Wars 2

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,849,963 Users Online:0
Games:732  Posts:6,223,480
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » After SWG and Vanguard, How Do People Continue to Fall For SOE (Smedley) Hype?

16 Pages First « 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 » Search
301 posts found
  User Deleted
7/02/13 7:58:34 PM#241

I would say people who enjoyed EverQuest hope to recapture that kind of experience.   Oddly enough before November of 2004... EQ was most likely the largest subscription MMO in the western market.   I make the distinction "western" because I believe that likely L1 or another game was much larger in Asia... those games didn't really take off in the west and vice versa with EQ.

 

So that is a reason why a lot of people look at a game like EQN.

 

I don't really want to talk about SWG at all because... its been done already and it really has nothing to do with a title in the EverQuest franchise.

 

As to Vanguard... I really don't know why people ever bring that game up as being an SOE problem.   Vanguard was a Microsoft game.   I originally signed up and started to beta test the game as a Microsoft title.   One particular day Microsoft dumped what was a pile of crap .. that not only was a pile of crap but had managed to spend what was quoted at the time to be 60 Million dollars of Microsofts money to be that shiney pile of crap.

 

The game was essentially dead at that point.   SOE if anything picked up the title as a favor to Brad since he obviously was a large part of EQ.   In that situation you are talking about a company paying production costs for a project they had never budgeted for... you can't really expect them to suddenly be able to pull a full budget out of their dark side to finish the game.

 

Of course SOE only gave them so much time to "finish" the game.   If they had fully funded Vanguard enough to fix it and launch it right.. it would have been the most expensive MMO ever made.   It most likely at launch was one of the most expensive simply due to the massive amount of money wasted before SOE ever got involved.

 

So why on earth would I ever put SOE to blame for Vanguard?   It certainly would have been better for SOE to simply let the game vanish.   Considering the amount of money already spent for the state the game was in at that time (prior to any development under SOE) ... no other company would have financed it.   Unless they were trying to drop down a corporate tax bracket or two..

 

*short version* Never believe hype for any game.   You are only going to be let down in the long run with MMO's.   Even if the game you test or buy is your dream game.. its going to change into something you never would have paid for.   That happens with all MMO's and that's why their numbers tend to suddenly drop off at one point or another.   They just don't call the changes "NGE".

  Burntvet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 2745

7/02/13 8:01:51 PM#242
Originally posted by Zorgo
Originally posted by Burntvet
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by Burntvet
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by Burntvet
The thing with the MacIntyre statement was made well AFTER the NGE changes were done and all in place, and as part of the damage control that was going on at the time. Just because this particular time, it was an LA producer saying the same/similar thing as the SOE people had already said, does not mean that LA was wholly responsible for the decision (granted, she was a bit more candid about what the collective "they" wanted to do). All it means is that one of the co-publishers (LA), was saying the same/similar things to what the other co-publisher was and had said. Both Freeman and Rubenfeld speak to what was going on behind the curtain. (And it was even Freeman himself that came up with and pushed the terrible combat changes in the NGE, he said that, explicitly. No mention of LA saying "do this" or "do that" at all.)

No it means that LA had full control over  their license and nothing changes in the game without them giving it a green light. That is why i gave example of Warhammer IP to show that companies don't let anyone just do whatever they desire with their IP's. To say it was just 'SOE's decision and completely their fault' is just absurd.

 

I did not say it was solely SOE's fault for the decision. That was a joint decision between the two, because it had to be, contractually. What was SOE fault was the design, implementation, and coding. LA did none of that... they simply approved of changing the game into a more simplified, themepark experience in an attempt to get more customers, that SOE proposed. All the rest is on SOE, because they DID it.

People who have an axe to grind with SOE have already made up their mind. It is a lynch mob mentality really and no amount of proof is going to change that. Even the statement given by Nancy has been shrugged off as nothing more than a 'damage control'. Even though she openly admits that 'we' LA studio took the decisions for making radical changes. Even word of the lead producer isn't good enough but we are somehow suppossed to believe some random posters on message board.

I agree with others, mods need to burn down this topic because it was never made for having prudent and reasonable discussion and after 20 pages it is still the same.

 

And the same is true for folks that defend SOE at all costs. It is obvious you have never dealt with "corporate culture" much, because there is very little "my way or the highway" mentality among corporate partners. One partner does not simply roll over the other when a mutually beneficial relationship exists and when both parties want it to continue (and LA licensed the Clone Wars crap MMO to SOE well after). People go along to get along, corporately speaking, to keep the gravy train rolling. The idea that LA would force SOE to do anything with SWG is laughable, twice as much something SOE wouldn't want to do. Anyway, it doesn't matter, it is long over, and people that want to excuse SOE's abuses in the past, will continue to do so no matter what anyone says.

And pray tell - which company has not exhibited the corporate culture you cite? 

In my experience, from Turbine to Cryptic, from SOE to Blizzard, from Funcom to Mythic - everyone of them have acted as you state above. 

If I didn't accept  corporate shinanigans - what game could I play?

It is the companies job to sell the game. It is the consumers responsibility to buy wisely. And sometimes that means shaking hands with the devil - but being aware of it.

 

Off the top of my head, I would say MGM and Cheyenne Mountain studios (or whatever the name of those scam artists was), who had the license to do a Stargate MMO. After a whole lot of financial shenanigans and investor lawsuits and the like, MGM revoked the license to Stargate. Plus Mircosoft originally pulling out of Vanguard (where they pulled funding instead of pulling an IP, but MS was the "major partner in that one). It is a rare thing for that to happen, but it does occasionally.
  Nifa

Novice Member

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 327

You can get more with a kind word & a 2x4 than you can with just a kind word

7/02/13 8:02:46 PM#243
Originally posted by Xssiv
Originally posted by Iadien
Originally posted by Xssiv

Not so many years ago SOE, at John Smedley's direction, gutted and ruined SWG, basically causing a legendary mass exodus from the game.  

A few years later, SOE aquires Sigil games and forces the premature release of Vanguard, which was regarded by many to be one of the worst launches of any major MMO. 

At the time of Vanguard's release (arguably the first iteration of EQN), Smedley promised long term support and upcoming expansion packs.  We all know how that went.

 

So how is it that everyone is suddenly so confident that EQN will be such a great game?   Do the words "Everquest" and "sandbox" mentioned in the same sentence suddenly activate a chemical in the brain that causes selective amnesia?

So, your post is entirely inaccurate.

First, Lucas was calling the shots on the change with SWG, of course Smed took the fall, he eludes to this in old ass interviews.

Second, SoE did not purchase assets of Sigil until months AFTER Vanguard had already launched. The only reason Vanguard is still around is because of SoE.

 

Unfortunately, you are wrong sir.  

The SWG NGE was a decision made my management at SOE Austin to attempt to relaunch the game.   This had nothing to do with Lucas or Lucas Arts

 

Unfortunately for you, repeating wishful thinking over and over does not, in any way, make it true.

 

Having sat for a couple of hours and listened to Julio Torres speak extensively on the matter, I can say with confidence that it is you who are incorrect--or, if you prefer, wrong. Repeating over and over that it was SOE Austin won't make you right.

 

But why should you believe me? I'm just some gamer. Here, directly quoted, are Torres' own words as they appeared on the SWG boards announcing the NGE on November 2, 2005:

Greetings Star Wars Galaxies Players, Fans, and Other Denizens of the Galaxy:

My name is Julio Torres and I am the Producer on Star Wars Galaxies for LucasArts. We wanted you, the great members of the Galaxies community, to be the first to hear some exciting news about the current and future plans for Star Wars Galaxies!

Over the past year we have been working hard to respond to feedback we have gotten from players, fans, focus groups, and other research. This feedback has ultimately centered on one key area: the game does not feel like a heroic Star Wars experience. Currently, the early game has a steep learning curve and there is no clearly defined path of advancement or adventure. Many of our fans who bought the game did not see enough Star Wars style action early-on and ultimately left our world. It is our goal to change this and improve the experience for all players.

We are introducing a series of game enhancements to Star Wars Galaxies this month that include both significant enhancements to the live game as well as a completely redesigned experience for new players. The primary areas of focus include combat and profession and character development. The combat depicted in the Star Wars films, fiction, and canon that we have all come to know and love is fast-paced, action-packed, and visually intense. In order to stay true to the Star Wars fiction as well as to make the combat system more engaging, we have shifted the turn-based paradigm towards a much more engaging fast-action combat system where you control every move! After receiving feedback from members of the community, conducting extensive focus tests, and evaluating the combat systems of other games in the genre, we are confident this new fast-action combat truly delivers what players, fans, and gamers have come to expect from a Star Wars experience.

As mentioned earlier, combat is not the only area where we decided to focus our improvement efforts. We have also improved and brought more clarity to the profession and character development system. 

Changing a live game is never easy. We realize that players do not like to have their experience altered. These enhancements will take some getting used to and for that reason we lined-up some incentives for the current players to enjoy as our thanks for your loyalty to our game.

We value our community and want you to stay with us. Our goal is to continuously improve the Star Wars experience, the one we all know and love from the films and fiction; action-packed, story-driven, Star Wars fun. With these features and enhancements we are setting the stage for incredible things to come for Galaxies with more announcements happening in the coming months. 

I'd like to thank you all for your continued support of Star Wars Galaxies and for making it one of the premier gaming experiences online today. 

May The Force Be With You, 

Julio Torres, Producer - LucasArts

 

Huh. That's interesting. What is that title after his name? It seems to be "Producer, LucasArts."

 

Yes, OP, that is correct: Julio Torres, the man generally villified by gamers and gaming journalists alike as having spearheaded the perfect example of what not to ever do with a video game was indeed an employee of LucasArts and, according to what he stated repeatedly to those of us who met him in person, face-to-face, was in fact the liaison between SOE and LucasArts.

Now, I am not saying that SOE and Smedley were completely innocent or ignorant of the overwhelming lunacy that was the NGE, but Torres has frequently stood up and said it was his idea. And Torres was a LucasArts employee; he was never an SOE employee--his actions or inactions reflect on Lucas and LucasArts, not on SOE (Austin or otherwise) and/or Smedley.

Firebrand Art

"You are obviously confusing a mature rating with actual maturity." -Asherman

Maybe MMO is not your genre, go play Modern Warfare...or something you can be all twitchy...and rank up all night. This is seriously getting tired. -Ranyr

  ace80k

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/04/05
Posts: 140

7/02/13 8:03:11 PM#244

Every large company has had successes and failures. MMO producers are no different. With that said, keep in mind SoE has the most experience..by a considerable margin. That's why you should care. Pretty simple.

If Ford promised to release an amazing new affordable Mustang line which promised to change the way people drive, you'd be interested wouldn't you? Even if you've had problems with Ford and it's cars in the past, you'd still want to know more info. Why? Because Ford was the first successful mass producer of cars. The same is true with SoE and MMORPGs.

  Ganksinatra

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/28/09
Posts: 274

7/02/13 8:06:31 PM#245

These issues may have already been addressed, but in case they haven't:

 

LucasArts ruined SWG, not SOE. LucasArts was unhappy that the game had become niche and not an across the board success. They told SOE to make it so it was easier to become a Jedi, and gutted the game. This is not Smedley OR SOE's fault. Your laying of the blame at his feet is misguided at best, and highly biased at worst.

 

SOE bought Vanguard with the sole intent of letting it wither on the vine so that they would not have competition for EQ2 (in hindsight, perhaps they should have bought out WoW instead). They never intended to give it resources required to upkeep the game or make it successful. It was as much if a surprise to them as it was the fans that the game was actually pretty good for its time. After a cult following for several years, they have since assigned a team to start making the game better. Again, your assessment that this is Smedley's fault is wrong. This came from someone high above him, I assure you. The games he actually put effort into (EQ, EQ2, etc.), and wasn't cuckolded by an outside entity,  were all critical successes and are still up and running with a healthy community.

 

So your assessment is not only completely wrong, it reeks of other game fanboi-ism.

  DavisFlight

Elite Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2521

7/02/13 8:10:04 PM#246
Because Vanguard was fucking amazing?
  Arakazi

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/23/09
Posts: 842

7/02/13 8:13:09 PM#247

I think the OP is correct in at least questioning the hype surrounding EQN given SOE track record. They Failed to keep EQ up to date in terms of graphics, engine and UI. If they did that, EQ will still be a major player in the genre. EQII could also do with some updates, plus I didn't like the way EQII was wowerfied. The FTP models of both of the EQ games is a little messy to say the least. Instead tead of updating the old zones and graphics continually they seem to prefer to pump out expansions that do little to attract new players since they are purely for existing players. Plus some of these expansions have been poor.

Vanguard has been in a sorry state for years. Irrespective of who was originally to blame, SOE seemed content to just make it barely playable and let it lie. VG could of been an amazing game, there was a classic somewhere amongst the bugs and poor iterations, but again SOE refused to lift a finger until it went f2p, which by that time VG was already looking and feeling dated.

I havent played the Matrix online, Pirates of the Burning Sea or planetside 1, or SWG so can't comment on these games. I did enjoy Planetside 2 until the hacker began to annoy me, but it's par for the course with shooters.

<p align=center><a target=_blank href=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm><img border=0 src=http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/11.jpg></a></p>RL][/CENTER]

  barasawa

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/05
Posts: 199

I have a wandering mind, but that's ok, it brings back presents.

7/02/13 8:14:43 PM#248

I don't trust Smed because of some of his antics when he was just doing EQ.

But hey, I'm not ignoring any game he gets his mitts into, after all, despite his best efforts it may still be a fun game.

Then again, I'm not going to be holding my breath or anything.

Of course, I've seen a lot of promising games fail to deliver, or even go backwards because of a few stupid choices.

Of course, that's just my opinion, you have your own. :)

Lost my mind, now trying to lose yours...

  Murugan

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/08
Posts: 1567

7/02/13 8:20:40 PM#249
Originally posted by Dullahan
Originally posted by Iadien
Originally posted by Dullahan
Originally posted by Xssiv
Smed has concluded that SOE and Smed were the problem when it came to the NGE.

 

http://www.edge-online.com/news/star-wars-galaxies-changes-complete-and-utter-fail-says-soe-president/

 

The guy accepts full responsibility and apologizes.   I honestly don't know how this can be misconstrued

When you're the top dog in one of the biggest online gaming companies, you don't pass the buck if you're at fault even a little.  People will always hold it against you.  What he did was honorable, but also political.  What better way to show SOE fans that SOE is moving in the right direction than to take responsibility for past mistakes involving your company, regardless of how little you were actually at fault.

According to statements from those in charge at Lucas Arts, SOE and Smedley were hardly at fault.  If you can't see this was meant to exonerate him, not condemn him, you aren't as intelligent as you think.

Are people ignorant of fall guys? It sure seems that way.

It does indeed.

Smedley retained his position to this day, so not really a fall guy.

http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan

  fyerwall

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/01/04
Posts: 3197

7/02/13 8:28:08 PM#250
Originally posted by Murugan
Originally posted by Dullahan
Originally posted by Iadien
Originally posted by Dullahan
Originally posted by Xssiv
Smed has concluded that SOE and Smed were the problem when it came to the NGE.

 

http://www.edge-online.com/news/star-wars-galaxies-changes-complete-and-utter-fail-says-soe-president/

 

The guy accepts full responsibility and apologizes.   I honestly don't know how this can be misconstrued

When you're the top dog in one of the biggest online gaming companies, you don't pass the buck if you're at fault even a little.  People will always hold it against you.  What he did was honorable, but also political.  What better way to show SOE fans that SOE is moving in the right direction than to take responsibility for past mistakes involving your company, regardless of how little you were actually at fault.

According to statements from those in charge at Lucas Arts, SOE and Smedley were hardly at fault.  If you can't see this was meant to exonerate him, not condemn him, you aren't as intelligent as you think.

Are people ignorant of fall guys? It sure seems that way.

It does indeed.

Smedley retained his position to this day, so not really a fall guy.

Sometimes when one plays the part of the fall guy to save the relationship of two partnering companies, they get looked at as a team player. Team Players get to keep their jobs. 

Because one day, they might need that fall guy again ;)

There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"


  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10564

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

7/02/13 8:29:09 PM#251


Originally posted by Murugan

Originally posted by Dullahan

Originally posted by Iadien

Originally posted by Dullahan

Originally posted by Xssiv Smed has concluded that SOE and Smed were the problem when it came to the NGE.   http://www.edge-online.com/news/star-wars-galaxies-changes-complete-and-utter-fail-says-soe-president/   The guy accepts full responsibility and apologizes.   I honestly don't know how this can be misconstrued
When you're the top dog in one of the biggest online gaming companies, you don't pass the buck if you're at fault even a little.  People will always hold it against you.  What he did was honorable, but also political.  What better way to show SOE fans that SOE is moving in the right direction than to take responsibility for past mistakes involving your company, regardless of how little you were actually at fault. According to statements from those in charge at Lucas Arts, SOE and Smedley were hardly at fault.  If you can't see this was meant to exonerate him, not condemn him, you aren't as intelligent as you think.
Are people ignorant of fall guys? It sure seems that way.
It does indeed.
Smedley retained his position to this day, so not really a fall guy.



Not only that, fall guys aren't usually on board with being blamed for everything. When the NGE happened, there may have been people who were running the companies who disagreed (i.e. their opinions didn't matter), but all the people who were heading up SOE or LA were all in on the change. They were all sold on the idea that changing the game would keep it from sinking further than it already had.

It doesn't matter if Lucas Arts was pushing for a change, because SOE was more than happy to do it. It doesn't matter if Lucas Arts was pushing for a change, because SOE implemented the change.

The only upside is that it's possible that SOE and Smedley have learned some ways to not do things. Maybe.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Hrimnir

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/24/10
Posts: 1090

7/02/13 8:43:09 PM#252
Originally posted by Xssiv
Originally posted by Hrimnir
Originally posted by Xssiv
Originally posted by Daranar
Originally posted by Iadien
Originally posted by Xssiv

Not so many years ago SOE, at John Smedley's direction, gutted and ruined SWG, basically causing a legendary mass exodus from the game.  

A few years later, SOE aquires Sigil games and forces the premature release of Vanguard, which was regarded by many to be one of the worst launches of any major MMO. 

At the time of Vanguard's release (arguably the first iteration of EQN), Smedley promised long term support and upcoming expansion packs.  We all know how that went.

 

So how is it that everyone is suddenly so confident that EQN will be such a great game?   Do the words "Everquest" and "sandbox" mentioned in the same sentence suddenly activate a chemical in the brain that causes selective amnesia?

So, your post is entirely inaccurate.

First, Lucas was calling the shots on the change with SWG, of course Smed took the fall, he eludes to this in old ass interviews.

Second, SoE did not purchase assets of Sigil until months AFTER Vanguard had already launched. The only reason Vanguard is still around is because of SoE.

^^This exactly.  OP, do your homework.  SOE was not apart of those flops.  What SOE did do is EQ, EQ2, PS, PS2.   All incredibly successful games in their own right, and games still going on to this day.  Find me an MMO studio that has such successes as SOE's.   Most studios have one, maybe two hits and just as many flops as SOE.   Just remember, people don't hate on crap, they hate on the best.   No one hates the bench warmers for Washington Wizards, but plenty hate Lebron and Kobe.   

I did do my homework and posted several links to substantiate my argument, the only counter has been one article from Nancy McIntyre which never mentions anything about LA pushing NGE on SOE.

I on the other hand have referenced wikipedia, an SOE dev blog and an interview with Smedley where he accepts full responsibility for the CU and NGE without any mention of LA.     I was also playing SWG from launch through the NGE and played Vanguard at launch.  Even at launch, I had to use my SOE Station account to log into Vanguard yet many continue to say that SOE was not involved in any way. 

Somehow none of my evidence counts but some random poster stating that  "Lucas was calling the shots" with zero proof  is what most people are choosing to believe.   Not much I can do about that but please don't tell me to do my homework. 

Man, you seriously need to understand the difference between a developer and a publisher.  This is getting old.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanguard:_Saga_of_Heroes

 

Developer(s) Sony Online Entertainment
(Formerly Sigil Games Online)
Publisher(s) Sony Online Entertainment
Vanguard: Saga of Heroes is a high fantasy-themed massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) created by Sigil Games Online, and now developed and run by Sony Online Entertainment. Originally, the game was co-published by Sony Online Entertainment (SOE), and the company producing it, Sigil Games Online. The game was released on January 30, 2007, with an early access date of January 26, 2007 for pre-order customers. On May 15, 2007, it was announced in a press release that Sony Online Entertainment had completed a transaction to purchase key assets of Sigil Games Online, including all rights to Vanguard.
 
I'm not entirely sure what about that statement is unclear?
 
 
As far as NGE and lucasarts:
 
There is no definitive "proof" of this because SOE has NDA's agreements with Lucasarts.  If you do the research with lucasarts though you would know that (at least prior to disney buying them) Lucasarts NEVER relinqueshed creative control of their IP to ANYBODY.  They were the ones who dictate everything about any star wars game, movie, comic, book, etc.  George Lucas was extremely vigorous with what he felt was "protecting" his IP.  When you bring that knowledge into the mix, both with interviews with smed, the focus groups that occurred before the NGE, etc, its a pretty safe conclusion to come to that Lucasarts was the driving force behind the NGE.

Based on the lesson you have provided, SOE collects the money but has zero responsibility for the quality of the game.  

Taking this lesson to the present time, you would say that EA had no affect on the development, launch or ongoing support of SWTOR?   Strange how they took the brunt of the hate when it didn't turn out they way people had hoped.

To take it a step further, I guess we would also say that Lucas Arts controlled all aspects of development of SWTOR so both EA and Bioware were just following their specific direction.... got it, thanks!  

Strange how no one blames LA for SWTOR, yet SWG is suddenly all their fault.  

Here's an idea, stop putting words into my mouth and actually try to read and understand what i said.

Lucasarts does not relinquesh CREATIVE CONTROL.  They does not mean they control every aspect of development.

I'll give you an example of what creative control means.  Lets say lucasarts gets together with Ubisoft to make a jedi game.  Lucasarts licenses them to work with the Star Wars IP.  During the development of said game, Ubisoft makes the decision to put into the game a sub race of 8 foot tall ewoks, and call them uberwoks.  Lucasarts can step in and say, "Hey Ubisoft, take that out of the game, its not consistent with the star wars universe and we don't want it to potentially taint our Intellectual Property".  Because they retained the creative rights to the game, if Ubisoft doesnt do this, they can legally make ubisoft cease production of the game.

As for your frankly ridiculous point regarding SWTOR, we dont blame Lucasarts because the game didnt suck due to a conflict of direction/style of game.  The game sucked because it was a buggy piece of crap, and a glorified single player RPG.  Given that the NGE was to change SWG to be more like what SW:TOR eventually became, stylistically, its not exactly hard to see why Lucasarts wouldnt have had a problem with the direction of the development of SW:TOR.

"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

- Friedrich Nietzsche

  Zorgo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2210

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

7/02/13 9:07:10 PM#253
Originally posted by Hrimnir
 

*snip*  actually try to read and understand what i said.

They does not mean they control every aspect of development. 

*snip*

 

I agree with you completely - but you have to admit that typo makes for some good irony ;)

  fyerwall

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/01/04
Posts: 3197

7/02/13 9:16:47 PM#254

I say we just leave it with 'They were both at fault for what was done to SWG'

LA is at fault for demanding a drastic 180* style change for the game...

And

SOE is at fault for making this change as subtle as a hand grenade....

There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"


  BatCakez

Novice Member

Joined: 12/20/07
Posts: 127

7/02/13 10:50:35 PM#255
Originally posted by Xssiv

Not so many years ago SOE, at John Smedley's direction, gutted and ruined SWG, basically causing a legendary mass exodus from the game.  

A few years later, SOE aquires Sigil games and forces the premature release of Vanguard, which was regarded by many to be one of the worst launches of any major MMO. 

At the time of Vanguard's release (arguably the first iteration of EQN), Smedley promised long term support and upcoming expansion packs.  We all know how that went.

 

So how is it that everyone is suddenly so confident that EQN will be such a great game?   Do the words "Everquest" and "sandbox" mentioned in the same sentence suddenly activate a chemical in the brain that causes selective amnesia?

 

 

Regardless of the proper alignment in facts there, I totally agree! I actually have not suffered this 'amnesia', like so many others. I love and prefer sandbox and open world games, but if there is anything I have no doubt about, it's that SoE needs to stop making MMOs. Period.

  craftseeker

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/11/09
Posts: 627

7/02/13 10:54:32 PM#256
Originally posted by BatCakez

Regardless of the proper alignment in facts there, I totally agree! I actually have not suffered this 'amnesia', like so many others. I love and prefer sandbox and open world games, but if there is anything I have no doubt about, it's that SoE needs to stop making MMOs. Period.

??? Why??

I see two possibilities for this statement:

  1. You would like SOE to concentrate on some other kind of game
  2. You would like to see them go out of business thus putting 1,000+ people out of a job and causing a loss in overall capital to be invested in MMOs
Which is it?  Or do you have a third possibility.
  BatCakez

Novice Member

Joined: 12/20/07
Posts: 127

7/02/13 10:59:52 PM#257
Originally posted by craftseeker
Originally posted by BatCakez

Regardless of the proper alignment in facts there, I totally agree! I actually have not suffered this 'amnesia', like so many others. I love and prefer sandbox and open world games, but if there is anything I have no doubt about, it's that SoE needs to stop making MMOs. Period.

??? Why??

I see two possibilities for this statement:

  1. You would like SOE to concentrate on some other kind of game
  2. You would like to see them go out of business thus putting 1,000+ people out of a job and causing a loss in overall capital to be invested in MMOs
Which is it?  Or do you have a third possibility.

I'd love to be more diplomatic here, but it only really needs a brief sum up. They suck. EQ was great, SWG was great for a while. I've played all their games until they started pumping out F2P for extra cash. They look desperate, and what's worse, they look like a fool because they can't even do that right. If you think I'm just targeting SoE, no, I'd say EA is just as bad. Whether large scale or small, any  MMO after UO that they did, just couldn't stand up right anymore. They butchered the later version of that game. The same could even be said of Funcom, but look, I digress.

Why don't we just leave it to being like a relationship, that you repeatedly get burned in.

  Geeky

Novice Member

Joined: 8/05/04
Posts: 238

7/02/13 11:13:31 PM#258
Originally posted by BatCakez
Originally posted by craftseeker
Originally posted by BatCakez

Regardless of the proper alignment in facts there, I totally agree! I actually have not suffered this 'amnesia', like so many others. I love and prefer sandbox and open world games, but if there is anything I have no doubt about, it's that SoE needs to stop making MMOs. Period.

??? Why??

I see two possibilities for this statement:

  1. You would like SOE to concentrate on some other kind of game
  2. You would like to see them go out of business thus putting 1,000+ people out of a job and causing a loss in overall capital to be invested in MMOs
Which is it?  Or do you have a third possibility.

I'd love to be more diplomatic here, but it only really needs a brief sum up. They suck. EQ was great, SWG was great for a while. I've played all their games until they started pumping out F2P for extra cash. They look desperate, and what's worse, they look like a fool because they can't even do that right. If you think I'm just targeting SoE, no, I'd say EA is just as bad. Whether large scale or small, any  MMO after UO that they did, just couldn't stand up right anymore. They butchered the later version of that game. The same could even be said of Funcom, but look, I digress.

Why don't we just leave it to being like a relationship, that you repeatedly get burned in.

If SOE were to stop trying to make MMO's that gaming world would be more at a loss than a gain.  SOE spends as much as it makes.  It's a big company and without them doing bad games, good games or whatever there would not be the jobs or the opportunity for people to get into the industry and thus we would not find talent.

You have to have big companies that people hate just so there is money to be spent on hiring talented creative people.  Blizzard produced what some might say a better MMO.  I'm not one of those people, but Blizzard isn't as big of a company and EA has given up on MMO's, so to wish SOE would stop, means wishing MMO's would take an immediate turn for the worse and a much slower pace of development.

  Murugan

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/08
Posts: 1567

7/02/13 11:26:15 PM#259
Originally posted by Geeky
Originally posted by BatCakez
Originally posted by craftseeker
Originally posted by BatCakez

Regardless of the proper alignment in facts there, I totally agree! I actually have not suffered this 'amnesia', like so many others. I love and prefer sandbox and open world games, but if there is anything I have no doubt about, it's that SoE needs to stop making MMOs. Period.

??? Why??

I see two possibilities for this statement:

  1. You would like SOE to concentrate on some other kind of game
  2. You would like to see them go out of business thus putting 1,000+ people out of a job and causing a loss in overall capital to be invested in MMOs
Which is it?  Or do you have a third possibility.

I'd love to be more diplomatic here, but it only really needs a brief sum up. They suck. EQ was great, SWG was great for a while. I've played all their games until they started pumping out F2P for extra cash. They look desperate, and what's worse, they look like a fool because they can't even do that right. If you think I'm just targeting SoE, no, I'd say EA is just as bad. Whether large scale or small, any  MMO after UO that they did, just couldn't stand up right anymore. They butchered the later version of that game. The same could even be said of Funcom, but look, I digress.

Why don't we just leave it to being like a relationship, that you repeatedly get burned in.

If SOE were to stop trying to make MMO's that gaming world would be more at a loss than a gain.  SOE spends as much as it makes.  It's a big company and without them doing bad games, good games or whatever there would not be the jobs or the opportunity for people to get into the industry and thus we would not find talent.

You have to have big companies that people hate just so there is money to be spent on hiring talented creative people.  Blizzard produced what some might say a better MMO.  I'm not one of those people, but Blizzard isn't as big of a company and EA has given up on MMO's, so to wish SOE would stop, means wishing MMO's would take an immediate turn for the worse and a much slower pace of development.

I don't think MMO only studios are very viable.  SOE has always been plagued by poor management (Smedley), he isn't going to go anywhere, they aren't doing well as a company in my opinion given how many of their games have failed, how many have been shut down, and how all of them had to abandon subscriptions.

 

If SOE dropped out of the industry others would take its place.  Bethesda is now making MMO's (my god I hope it cures of them of their tendency to release everything in a bugged state, cause that doesn't go well in MMOland), and many new companies are testing the MMO waters on the consoles.

 

These are real big companies that can actually invest the money needed to make a proper AAA MMO without selling out to private investors and co-publishers who demand a quick return on their cash.

 

Also blizzard is a much more stable, larger, and has much deeper pockets than SOE.  They probably weren't prior to the release of WoW, but then again SOE is not the same company or nearly as powerful as it was back then at all.

http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan

  BatCakez

Novice Member

Joined: 12/20/07
Posts: 127

7/02/13 11:27:40 PM#260
Originally posted by Geeky
Originally posted by BatCakez
Originally posted by craftseeker
Originally posted by BatCakez

Regardless of the proper alignment in facts there, I totally agree! I actually have not suffered this 'amnesia', like so many others. I love and prefer sandbox and open world games, but if there is anything I have no doubt about, it's that SoE needs to stop making MMOs. Period.

??? Why??

I see two possibilities for this statement:

  1. You would like SOE to concentrate on some other kind of game
  2. You would like to see them go out of business thus putting 1,000+ people out of a job and causing a loss in overall capital to be invested in MMOs
Which is it?  Or do you have a third possibility.

I'd love to be more diplomatic here, but it only really needs a brief sum up. They suck. EQ was great, SWG was great for a while. I've played all their games until they started pumping out F2P for extra cash. They look desperate, and what's worse, they look like a fool because they can't even do that right. If you think I'm just targeting SoE, no, I'd say EA is just as bad. Whether large scale or small, any  MMO after UO that they did, just couldn't stand up right anymore. They butchered the later version of that game. The same could even be said of Funcom, but look, I digress.

Why don't we just leave it to being like a relationship, that you repeatedly get burned in.

If SOE were to stop trying to make MMO's that gaming world would be more at a loss than a gain.  SOE spends as much as it makes.  It's a big company and without them doing bad games, good games or whatever there would not be the jobs or the opportunity for people to get into the industry and thus we would not find talent.

You have to have big companies that people hate just so there is money to be spent on hiring talented creative people.  Blizzard produced what some might say a better MMO.  I'm not one of those people, but Blizzard isn't as big of a company and EA has given up on MMO's, so to wish SOE would stop, means wishing MMO's would take an immediate turn for the worse and a much slower pace of development.

I've yet to see SoE contribute anything ground breaking in MMOs in a very long time. Just to get your foot in the door to be a designer does not require doing MMOs. SoE making games is fine, however, making MMOs is an entirely different story. They've proved time and time again, they just don't have the guns to compete in the MMO market, and unfortunately, many do not. If they did, we'd see something amazing by now. This isn't just on SoE, but they certainly don't help 'freshen' up the place, so to speak.

16 Pages First « 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 » Search