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General Discussion  » I don't understand how people can accept "Freemium"....

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21 posts found

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/24/13
Posts: 466

OP  7/02/13 1:56:47 PM#1

My first experience with "Freemium" came with Planetside 2. 


I'd played Planetside 1 for more than 5years before quitting over the game just being destroyed for nonsensical gameplay mechanics that took away from what PS1 was at its core.


Fast-Forward to pre-Planetside 2 beta, and my outfit of 30+ were absolutely losing their minds since we had gotten an email a day before stating that our outfit was to receive invites for every member to get into beta at the same time.


Once in PS2's Beta we were hesitant to say the least due to the fact we slowly got a glimpse of their "Freemium" model allowing people to PURCHASE with real-money upgrades & better guns ($15 for a single gun anyone?).

Then, we were saddened by how badly Higby butchered Planetside 2 in favor of the Battlefield Franchise. They removed any inkling of what Planetside 1 was at its core, and continued with poor design decisions that catered more towards run & gun gameplay than tactical team based operations that made Ps1 the beast that it was.


All of this combined to make Planetside 2, at least for myself and my outfit, a cheaply made knockoff feeling towards the game itself. You felt no joy in retaking a base, or taking it from the enemy. You felt nothing when you unlocked something new that you worked and saved points for over weeks for a weapon or upgrade that someone could swipe their card and instanlty obtain.


Yet, when we sat down and talked about it. We realized that using their "Freemium" model, even subscribers ended up paying $750 to obtain everything that you could have obtained in Planetside 1 for a LOW monthly fee of $15. Let's face it, with inflation that we have now $15 is a drop in the bucket. Just don't buy a $20 pizza less a month, done.

Yes, the arguement can be made "but you can still get it without paying a dime!". Yea, in Planetside 1 we could work hard for a month or so and get from BR 1 to BR20, and have a choice between a TON of equipment with our spent points.

In Planetside 2 the equivalent has been stretched out for MONTHS upon MONTHS more of hardcore grinding points just to obtain the same quantity & quality of gear, but then Mr.MoneyBags comes over and swipes his card to have everything simply destroyed our connection with the game.


Needless to say "Freemium" is NOT a popular model with us, and for me personally it destroyed what Planetside 2 could have been (also, not having a Battlefield & COD fan as Lead Designer or w/e Higby was would have been peachy too).


Why are people so willing to have more taken from them so a pricetag can be punched over it when $15/month with personal accomplishment beats it out completely? Do you enjoy supporting bad business practices? I just don't understand :(!


Here's hoping Smedly puts in a monthly subscription plan that allows you to bypass the store they implement completely. Tired of that nonsense in EQ2, and it hasn't done EQ1 any favors. Not to mention how badly Planetside 2 turned out. 


My 2cents,



Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/07
Posts: 624

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in a group"

7/02/13 2:10:54 PM#2
If they do B2P with freemium the way EQ2's Freemium subscription is, i will be OK with it.  If you can buy your Epic Weapons via the cash shop i will cry.  


Novice Member

Joined: 2/12/04
Posts: 648

7/02/13 2:20:23 PM#3

I personally take advantage of SoE's triple station cash (SC) events, I only purchase SC during at least double (usually triple) SC events. I also only purchase the $15 SC at Wal-mart, which gives $5 extra SC, that also doubles and triples depending. ie. during a triple SC event, a $15 Wal-mart card gives 6000 ($60) SC.

I also don't feel like I need much from the marketplace to begin with, I don't consider too many items in the marketplace a requirement to enjoy EQ1/EQ2 (since SoE removed the class/race restrictions, etc.) I have 185,000 SC sitting around, waiting to be spent because of triple SC events. I'm also sure SoE will have a similar promotion as Planetside 2 that will give some nice items plus an equal amount of SC for EQN.

If I really enjoy the game, I'll subscribe, but I don't find it necessary to subscribe anymore in SoE games as of late.



Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11863

7/02/13 2:30:58 PM#4
Originally posted by Iadien

I personally take advantage of SoE's triple station cash (SC) events, I only purchase SC during at least double (usually triple) SC events. I also only purchase the $15 SC at Wal-mart, which gives $5 extra SC, that also doubles and triples depending. ie. during a triple SC event, a $15 Wal-mart card gives 6000 ($60) SC.

another perk i like about SC is it works on any SOE game

you can mix and match what games you spend SC on


unlike Turbine points that cannot be shared across DDO and LOTRO if you pay for Turbine points

Granted, Turbine points can also be obtained without cash..


Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 3770

7/02/13 2:40:30 PM#5

OP, I don't know what "Freemium" has to do with your complaints regarding F2P games.


"Freemium" is a term generally used to describe a type of subscription plan in F2P games. For a steady sub fee, you get certain advantages.


It has nothing to do with "buying all your weapons and unlocks on Day 1 for Cash", which seems to be your major complaint. That is pure F2P style.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/02/12
Posts: 1288

7/02/13 3:19:31 PM#6
B2P and only cosmetic items in CS is absolutely fine by me. With sub covering everything you need to have all features. So freemium is ok as long as there's only cosmetics in CS. Some money (B2P) should be involved as a barrier against sociopaths that infest every F2P MMO.

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/24/07
Posts: 279

7/02/13 3:41:28 PM#7

For an FPS, 'freemium' may be more profitable for them.  

For a fantasy roll playing game, IMO it wont work.  

Until someone tells me otherwise, the kicker for me is that EQN as a sandbox environment should support a strong economy.  Selling items that effect character development, weak or strong, could do a lot of damage.  Selling items that provide utility however, could be beneficial for SOE.  Similar to the marketplace or player studio content from EQ1/2.  The focus of Planetside 2 isn't similar enough to compare the two games.

IE: Gun from PS2 != Sword from EQN.


Elite Member

Joined: 10/06/09
Posts: 2419

7/02/13 3:44:36 PM#8

First, if you're spending $750 on a game that's free to play then you've either got way too much money or you love the game that much. 


Case #1: The Collector

If you love a game and want to spend $750 to beef your dude up quicker than anyone else, great. I'm sure there are lots of train collectors or sports card collectors, or comic collectors who could blow $750 in a shot also. I've never heard them say, "OMG! I just got a copy of "The Amazing Spiderman" # 129, with the first appearance of The Punisher! What a rip-off though, the guy at the store charged me $700 bucks, but the cover says 20 cents." 


Case #2: The Billionaire

Maybe you have a ton of money and you also happen to love games and you want to drop a grand to just max-level your character off the hop. In the past, I could have paid Chinese gold farmers to level my toon for me and pay them a certain amount. Now, I guess, we have cash shops which basically legalize the expedited leveling process. So maybe I still have to hire someone to level me, but I can get some exp boosts from the cash shop and reduce the amount I need to pay them :) 


Either way, someone is spending $750 on a game. Now, if you happen to play that game for 5 years and get all your best stuff day 1, then you're probably breaking even at $750, maybe even a little better, so bonus! If you're only playing for 3 months then Boooo. However, they didn't charge you $60 + $15 a month for unrealized crap, it's free! If you really hate it then don't buy anything, but if you do then support it, maybe not to the tune of $750, but at least toss in a couple tens or something. If you're competitive with it then do whatever you must in order to be competitive. It's no different than buying sports equipment. 


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  User Deleted
7/02/13 4:48:29 PM#9
Originally posted by BearKnight


Here's hoping Smedly puts in a monthly subscription plan that allows you to bypass the store they implement completely. Tired of that nonsense in EQ2, and it hasn't done EQ1 any favors. Not to mention how badly Planetside 2 turned out. 


My 2cents,


I absolutely understand your concerns with payment models.  When EQ2 transitioned from a pure subscription base to a tierd system, there was a lot of concern on how it would all pan out.  A couple of years later, and it has proven to be fairly benign. 


What will EQN's model and Cash Shop contents end up being?  Well, again, speculating only spins people around and around.  Look at the threads here and discussions (arguments) that are based on non-information, outdated interviews, or carefully placed soundbites from Smedley's Twitter antics.  I just tune those out now.


In 4 weeks from today we'll get to see what is really happening.  Apparently at the SOE Live Reveal, there are going to be 7 separate panels for EQN alone.  That should prove to be very exciting indeed.  Then we'll have things to discuss and really get hyped/concerned about.


Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/05
Posts: 2057

Modern MMOs make Tolkien turn in his grave.

7/02/13 6:08:31 PM#10

OP totally lost me.  What are you going on about?  $750 to access what you got for $15 a month?  How about free for what you used to get for $15 a month.  Are we playing the same game?  Freemium just buys you a little spending money every month and speeds up your certs that you buy upgrades with.  Where the uck-fay do you get $750 from?!


Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/19/04
Posts: 376

7/02/13 6:22:13 PM#11
Originally posted by Dullahan

OP totally lost me.  What are you going on about?  $750 to access what you got for $15 a month?  How about free for what you used to get for $15 a month.  Are we playing the same game?  Freemium just buys you a little spending money every month and speeds up your certs that you buy upgrades with.  Where the uck-fay do you get $750 from?!

Not really sure. The Freemium EQ1 and EQ2 use only allows for convenience items and vanity items to be purchased from the station store. Station Cash can get you quicker times with research and help repair your gear on the fly, but the 500 SC you get every month for free from a 15$ a month subscription handles everything you need, that is, unless you are really impatient. Add in the station stores triple and double station cash weekends and you are more than set for anything you need in-game, be it vanity items or just toys to piss around with.


The basic idea behind freemium is you want to sub, do that and the freemium goes away.


And I do agree, what the uck-fay?


Novice Member

Joined: 1/22/09
Posts: 555

There are 2 kinds of people in the world: those who don't like dragons and those who enjoy living.

7/02/13 6:33:32 PM#12
I think the OP is comparing games that allow you to buy 2 win with all F2P games, most of which have NO buy 2 win type of transactions.  Everquest and Turbine are very good examples of this, but are no means the only ones.

My blog is a continuing story of what MMO's should be like.


Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 3098

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

7/02/13 6:40:29 PM#13

So this is in EQNext's forums because of......?



Sounds like you have an issue with Planetside 2.

Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!


Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

7/02/13 6:58:53 PM#14
Originally posted by Kleptobrainiac
Freemium is made so whales can crush the freebs. It's like a republican convention where the little guy thinks it's raining but it's really just pizzle.

No, freemium is simply sub 2 win.  No whales involved.  Want to be the best?  pay 14.99 or month or use the system to your advantage.  A smart EQ2 player can be top of the line for a hell of a lot less than 14.99 per month. 

And i think freemium is the best model.  Preferably without the cosmetic cash shop on top of it, but SoE does it right and gives the EQ/EQ2 subbers a stipend to buy some fluff with if they choose.


Advanced Member

Joined: 11/07/05
Posts: 664

7/02/13 9:33:48 PM#15

I'd rather just pay the $15/mo so I'm with the OP that far. I played PS1 and 2 a bit, the game is different, but I didn't hate either one.

I'm not against freemium, but it always makes me feel like I need to pay attention, whereas paying a monthly is just easy. I always feel like the more money the devs make the more they want to charge for until it reaches the point that $15/mo doesn't get you even basic stuff.

I'm not the guy that reaches max level first or even in the first 10% so I'm not worried that someone will buy their way to the top. In fact I like the idea of some rich kid buying his way to the top and paying some poor kids way into the game.

Anyway I accept Fremium until it's too late, then I'm sure I'll regret it.



Advanced Member

Joined: 4/19/06
Posts: 537

7/02/13 9:39:36 PM#16

I despise monthly subscriptions.

However, I despise item shops even more.

They could always go the route of buying a box, paying a sub fee, and having an item shop ...

Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.


Novice Member

Joined: 7/10/07
Posts: 442

7/02/13 9:44:34 PM#17
After playing eq for all these years i have over 7k sc doesn't that show you how much i don't need the stuff thats in the shop. I pay my 13 euro a month and i also have tons of sc from the 500 they give me a month. If the game has to be F2P then i hope they do it the same way as EQ and i will just pay my 13 Euros.

Novice Member

Joined: 11/29/11
Posts: 10

7/02/13 9:54:34 PM#18

I'll worry about F2P,B2P or subscriptions later on down the road when I have more information on what the game is going to be. Right now they need to sell me on whether or not it'll be worth my time to pick this game up at all. Game play & potential longevity(endgame) are what people should be focused on.


Having a great cash shop at release means nothing if the game is terrible and no one plays it past level 50.

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Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 6659

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

7/02/13 10:00:24 PM#19

GW2 has the best model to me. And if you add an optional subscription with extra perks thats fine. But the GW2 model as the core.

No limitation garbage because everyone is paying for the game. Subbers get perks, non subbers can get those perks in cash shop maybe.


Im ok with that. Other than that, the GW2 model plain and simple.


Novice Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2269

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

7/02/13 10:04:42 PM#20
If you put in your 2 cents - is it still free?
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