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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Why does FFA PvP or Always On PvP need to be global?

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107 posts found
  TheLizardbones

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10959

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

 
OP  7/02/13 7:42:04 PM#1

This is something I've wondered about, but not really understood the logic of. It has definitely gotten a lot more attention recently with the pending release of EQN information.

I understand that PvP is more exciting, can add something akin to a political element to a game, and can even make items in the economy more valuable, but I've never understood the insistence that if there is FFA PvP in a game everyone must participate.

For example, if there are safe areas and unsafe areas, the unsafe areas must contain more valuable items. Why? To me this seems like a mechanic that arbitrarily limits the people who would want to play a game. It seems like the people who would want to PvP would hang out in the unsafe areas and the people who don't like PvP would hang out in the safe areas.

I've also gotten the impression, possibly wrongly, that people who like FFA, Always On PvP are against the idea of having two different server types, one with the PvP rule set and one with the PvP rule set. Why? It seems like a good idea for people who like PvP to be on one server and people who don't want PvP on all the time on another server.

So, what are your thoughts on this? Why must FFA or Always On PvP be universal or all encompassing?

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  zymurgeist

Elite Member

Joined: 12/24/04
Posts: 5260

7/02/13 7:51:37 PM#2

One word, Felucca.

Some people cannot stand the idea that someone, somewhere, is having fun and they cannot ruin it.

Some people cannot understand why PvP servers rarely have self sustaining populations and PvE servers almost always do. At least initially.

"Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  User Deleted
7/02/13 8:02:44 PM#3
Originally posted by lizardbones

So, what are your thoughts on this? Why must FFA or Always On PvP be universal or all encompassing?

Depends on the game, whether it is PvE or PvP focused. PvE games with PvP as an after thought (ex. RIFT) it shouldn't be universal (and isn't). In PvP games like WAR then absolutely.

  TheLizardbones

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10959

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

 
OP  7/02/13 8:23:25 PM#4


Originally posted by TheMaahes

Originally posted by lizardbones So, what are your thoughts on this? Why must FFA or Always On PvP be universal or all encompassing?
Depends on the game, whether it is PvE or PvP focused. PvE games with PvP as an after thought (ex. RIFT) it shouldn't be universal (and isn't). In PvP games like WAR then absolutely.



What about games that don't exist yet, like EQN? Again, I could be wrong, but I really get the impression that the people who are interested in FFA or Always On PvP do not want there to be a separate server where the rule set is for optional PvP, regardless of the other mechanics in the game.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 14569

7/02/13 8:30:33 PM#5
Some people primarily want to attack people who don't want to be attacked.  But as a game mechanic, that really only works if the gankers make some major sacrifices to be built for combat, so that people who have no hope of killing the gankers can still feel like they're winning in other ways.
  User Deleted
7/02/13 8:34:35 PM#6
Originally posted by lizardbones


What about games that don't exist yet, like EQN? Again, I could be wrong, but I really get the impression that the people who are interested in FFA or Always On PvP do not want there to be a separate server where the rule set is for optional PvP, regardless of the other mechanics in the game.

 

 

Its simple, you tell those players no. This goes back to my original post a bit, companies need to stop catering to everybody and put their foot down on what they (as developers) want in a game. Stop trying to add everything in and focus on one aspect, then this discussion won't even exist.

The moment you stop trying to please everyone, everything becomes easier.

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 8103

7/02/13 8:35:25 PM#7

I don't think that there is consensus among PvP gamers what they want.

I like PvP that has areas where faction warfare is always allowed (DAoC, ArcheAge, etc...), and areas that are PvE only.

I also like FFA PvP that punishes repeat griefers, corpse campers and those that gank lowbies with EXTREME penalties -the same as RL - death penalty and life sentences (makes their characters unplayable permanently). The more open FFA the harsher the rules for harassing gameplay.

My 2c

  DavisFlight

Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2604

7/02/13 8:37:37 PM#8

People who like FFA PVP usually like open ended world simulations. By breaking everyone into safe zones and instances and different servers, you're taking people out of the mix.

 

The fun of FFA PVP is that all people must participate in the world. It feels like the real world. Don't like fighting? Hire guards! Crafters need protection, as do harvesters. It adds to the gameplay.

 

With just PvPers in a PvP zone... its wolves vs wolves and everything is always the same. aka, boring and unrealistic.

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 8103

7/02/13 8:42:16 PM#9
Originally posted by DavisFlight

 

With just PvPers in a PvP zone... its wolves vs wolves and everything is always the same. aka, boring and unrealistic.

Its players who want to PvP, how is that boring? Its a win-win.

Boring is a player who wants to PvE in peace being forced to PvP, its one sided and lame, wolves vs sheep is way more boring.

 

  vveaver_online

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/27/03
Posts: 271

To weave the fabric of space and time into one life through the games we play!

7/02/13 8:43:41 PM#10

it should be about looks, if you like the style of the pvp zone armor go there, if not go get the pve version.

 

Stats on gear sucks. UO never had more than vanq quality, well maybe some minor magic enchantments but nothing extreme. its bs wow/eq crap.

  Karaethon

Novice Member

Joined: 4/06/11
Posts: 33

7/02/13 8:54:04 PM#11
For me it is not about winning, or making someone else's time bad.  For me open world PvP adds so much more to a game.  I am tired of the theme park type games that are all about leveling and getting new gear.  I have always been a huge fan of Role playing and you can't have RP without full on open world pvp.  With the games that are pvp centric the gameplay is more about working towards a larger goal whether it be contributing to a guild in a meaningful way or being part of a realm or kingdom.  Focus needs to be taken off of the shinies and the levels and put more towards epic conflict and an immersive world.  The terrible villains of the world should not just be some AI creatures that spawn every 8 hours.  They should be killers and miscreants.
  Fusion

Old School

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 1410

7/02/13 8:58:44 PM#12

Because "world simulation" is much more exciting that "hit that next level with chatbox"

I can pit against monsters, farm xp and loot in thousands upon thousands of single-player / Co-Op games when need arises.

Currently playing: -

Waiting for: Class4.

Dead and Buried: ESO, NWO, GW2, SWTOR, Darkfall, AO, AC2, Vanguard, CoH/V, EnB, EVE, Neocron, FE, EQ, EQ2, DAoC, FFXI, FFXIV, SWG, WoW, and billions of eastern junks!

  hockeyplayr

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/27/10
Posts: 601

7/02/13 9:00:51 PM#13
I've always admired runescape's take on this.  Lets give them a safe and unsafe area.  Say you want to mine the best possible ore to make money. It is possible in the safe zone, but there are more spawns in the unsafe zone.  Doesn't limit your play just rewards the risk a little more
  klagmire

Novice Member

Joined: 6/26/13
Posts: 96

7/02/13 9:04:18 PM#14

Open world pvp is soo much better. There does not need to be FFA PVP. SWG had the best system IMO. They had factions and you could toggle yourself open to PVP or not open for PVP. Thers no need for different servers for PVP. PVP can happen anywhere(if your PVP toggled). If you dont want to PVP you dont have to, you can just watch, I found it got people who didnt usually PVP- into PVP.

This is better than zones and PVP servers IMO. People who want tp PVP can in open world-People who dont want to pvp , dont have to. Its best for all concerned.

Played:SWG(pre NGE/CU sucked)Yep its true, anyone who quit SWG because of the NGE/CU missed out on a much better combat system. DCUO, Fallen Earth, STO, The Secret World. Battlefield series. Planetside 2. Still playing SWG.

  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

7/02/13 9:06:58 PM#15
Originally posted by Fusion

Because "world simulation" is much more exciting that "hit that next level with chatbox"

I can pit against monsters, farm xp and loot in thousands upon thousands of single-player / Co-Op games when need arises.

World Simulation does not denote PvP,hitting that next level/skill point/whatever is the driving force for the RPG genre.

If someone wants to PvP exclusively there are tousands of singleplayer/multiplayer games when the need arises.Works both ways.

  bcbully

Tipster

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 8330

7/02/13 9:10:01 PM#16
FFA world with a PVE area full of quests and instances.  This will give the devs a lot of freedom to design something else.

http://www.twitch.tv/sunshineNB
J.O.B. Daggerfalls BEST Gank Crew

  TheLizardbones

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10959

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

 
OP  7/02/13 9:12:38 PM#17


Originally posted by Fusion
Because "world simulation" is much more exciting that "hit that next level with chatbox"

I can pit against monsters, farm xp and loot in thousands upon thousands of single-player / Co-Op games when need arises.




That explains why you like PvP. You didn't say whether or not you thought it required everyone's participation though. If you do think it requires everyone's participation, why?

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Zorgo

Novice Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2269

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

7/02/13 9:12:43 PM#18

Why does 'universal' mean 'contains everything'?

If it isn't global, it isn't free for everyone to engage in all the time.

A better question would be, why does PVP need to be FFA?

Otherwise you are kinda asking why it is light when the sun is out.

  Fusion

Old School

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 1410

7/02/13 9:16:38 PM#19
Originally posted by Drakynn
Originally posted by Fusion

Because "world simulation" is much more exciting that "hit that next level with chatbox"

I can pit against monsters, farm xp and loot in thousands upon thousands of single-player / Co-Op games when need arises.

If someone wants to PvP exclusively there are tousands of singleplayer/multiplayer games when the need arises.Works both ways.

You miss interpreted my meaning.

MMORPG's needs to have have BOTH un-instanced, to be a 'world simulation' of my meaning.

DF:UW is a good example of what i mean. Yes, not greatly executed, but on the right tracks

EVE is also a great example, tho lacking in entertaining combat mechanics and sub-par PVE.

Currently playing: -

Waiting for: Class4.

Dead and Buried: ESO, NWO, GW2, SWTOR, Darkfall, AO, AC2, Vanguard, CoH/V, EnB, EVE, Neocron, FE, EQ, EQ2, DAoC, FFXI, FFXIV, SWG, WoW, and billions of eastern junks!

  Ratero

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/19/04
Posts: 329

7/02/13 9:30:30 PM#20

One problem that does arise is that for the PvP'er you have access to the entire world and all the possible content that was created.  As a PvE'er you only have access to the PvE portion of the world.  Granted, the PvE'er could go and try to do the PvE content inside the PvP portion of the world, but then they would have to contend with looking over their shoulders while trying to craft or do quest content.  From a PvE'er point of view, they paid the same amount of money for the game as the PvP'er did but in a way they are limited on the content they have available to them unless they want to keep looking over their shoulder and avoid all the PvP'ers.

In a way I agree with the PvP'ers.... Let the games have FFA PvP servers.  But allow no character transfers to different servers once that character is created.  Their server would be FFA Total Loot PvP with no rules at all.  But on the other hand, let the PvE'ers have their own server with total access to the entire game world in which there is NO PvP at all or perhaps allow only flagged PvP only.

If you use ESO as an example from a PvE'er point of view then there is a quite a chunk of the game that we will never see unless we are willing to go into the PvP area to attempt the content.  So in a way, the PvE'er is paying for the same game as the PvP'er, but they could be getting less content depending on their playstyle.

Ratero

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