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General Discussion  » After SWG and Vanguard, How Do People Continue to Fall For SOE (Smedley) Hype?

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301 posts found
  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

7/02/13 7:10:57 PM#221
Originally posted by Murugan

During the development of APW for Vanguard (AFTER SOE TOOK OVER) there were many developers working on the game, you can see their names referenced in the bosses there.  I talked to many of them on the test server.  Over the time I was SUBSCRIBED to the game along with many other people.

 

Back when the game had more than one server.

 

Back when the game had people paying for it every month.

 

Way back then... they decided to shuffle the development team to EQ2 and other titles

You are 100% wrong with your timeline.

SoE pulled development *because* no one was playing it.  SoE stopping development was the effect of VG being dead, not the cause.  In fact, it was pretty much dead when SoE acquired it.  They worked on it in hopes people would come back.  they didnt.

 

Yeah, maybe they had 10k subs when they stopped developing it and that number dropped to 5k.  but even SWG had 50k subs.

  Xssiv

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/18/10
Posts: 340

 
OP  7/02/13 7:15:22 PM#222
Originally posted by Zorgo
Originally posted by Xssiv
Originally posted by rojo6934
OP, everyone here is giving you the same answers with different words over and over.... Beg the moderators to burn this thread.... it makes you look bad

I think it looks bad when people have to resort to personal attacks and condescending remarks to get their points across.  

 

 

I don't think it his statement is any worse than this:

"Considering that this thread is 20+ pages and not one person has been able to produce any evidence of LA forcing the NGE onto SOE, I think people need to stop citing this as fact."

Especially, since you have been presented with evidence - you have simply rejected it. And as far as citing speculation as fact....well look who is calling the kettle black.

You have looked at your evidence and concluded that SOE and Smed are the problem. Others have looked at evidence and concluded the blame is elsewhere.

When you cite your speculation as fact then condemn others for doing the same.....well, get over it.

You wondered why people believed Smed and the hype. They told you. You don't consider their opinion valid and cite your opinion as fact. Yes....this thread needs to burn.

In the future, don't ask the question if you aren't willing to accept the answer.

Smed has concluded that SOE and Smed were the problem when it came to the NGE.

 

http://www.edge-online.com/news/star-wars-galaxies-changes-complete-and-utter-fail-says-soe-president/

 

The guy accepts full responsibility and apologizes.   I honestly don't know how this can be misconstrued

  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

7/02/13 7:16:14 PM#223
Originally posted by Xssiv

Strange how no one blames LA for SWTOR, yet SWG is suddenly all their fault.  

For one, LA wasnt the publisher for SWtOR so they couldnt force EA to release it early.

And EA made a WoW-like game, which is what LA wanted the NGE to do to SWG

It may not be EA's fault that SWtOR is a themepark, but its their fault its a bad themepark.

  severius

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/10/04
Posts: 1528

7/02/13 7:22:42 PM#224
Originally posted by teddyboy420
Originally posted by severius
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by Xssiv

Not so many years ago SOE, at John Smedley's direction, gutted and ruined SWG, basically causing a legendary mass exodus from the game.  

A few years later, SOE aquires Sigil games and forces the premature release of Vanguard, which was regarded by many to be one of the worst launches of any major MMO. 

At the time of Vanguard's release (arguably the first iteration of EQN), Smedley promised long term support and upcoming expansion packs.  We all know how that went.

 

So how is it that everyone is suddenly so confident that EQN will be such a great game?   Do the words "Everquest" and "sandbox" mentioned in the same sentence suddenly activate a chemical in the brain that causes selective amnesia?

 

 

 LA called the shots not SOE. It was there idea to change SWG in order to bring in more players. Just like how it was LA's decision to not renew the license because they didn't want SWG to compete with SWTOR.

And SOE didn't force the early release of Vanguard. They infact bought the game when all other companies declined to help Sigil who were really hurting financially and were unable to release the game.

SOE was the only company who agreed to release the game. Vanguard was in deep trouble long before SOE even came into picture.

Next time you want to bash a company i suggest atleast get your information right.

So sick of you Sony apologists and your absolute idiocy regarding swg.  Smedley said, and I quote "How can I do this? How can I not do this?"  It wasn't LA forcing the NGE it was LA saying to SOE "Dude, you suck.  Pick up the numbers or we do not renew."  See, SOE had to renew their license every year and there were milestones to be met, that SOE could not meet.  So, smedley had the main team working on the Combat Upgrade and ReBalance.  

On the backside he had a small group working in secret.  One of the leads of that project ended up at Spacetime Studios working on mobile mmos and, sadly, prematurely left this earth.  This secret project was what Smedley referred to as he was saying How can Id o this, how can I not do this.  Then, he replaced the CURB (which was what was supposed to be worked on and had cool things added for in the Obi Wan expansion (taming gear for CH, the cube etc)) that all were completely thrown out with the NGE which hit with a huge bait and switch.  That's when they started with things like Chris Cao (fuktard) who said "The players do not know what they want, we will tell you what you want".  And also Smedley with things like "No one wants to be Uncle Owen or Aunt Beru, thats not Star Warsy.  Everyone wants to be Luke Skywalker or Darth Vader".

SOE didn't rescue Vigil, Smedley rescued his ahole buddy Brad McQuaid.  As soon as Smedley cut Brad a check he called a meeting in the Parking lot and fired everyone. And I quote "On May 14, 2007 the staff of Sigil Games Online were told to meet in the parking lot at 4:30 pm and to take with them what they would need for the rest of the day.  The employees were then told that the launch had not gone well, the company was in trouble and that they were selling to SOE.  Director of Production, Andy Platter then told the employees "You're all fired"" (1) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigil_Games_Online

The game launched January 2007 under Sigil Games, as Smedley had fronted McQuaid the cash needed to buy the game out from Microsoft.  Was taken over by SOE in May 2007.  It did not launch as an SOE game.  Too bad the only way you can defend Smedley and his fuptardedness is through revisionist history, lies and just outright fantasy.

Now who's revising history, or interpreting facts to suit your opinion? That quote wasn't Smed, it was Nancy MacIntyre, a VP @ LucasArts who was overseeing SWG for LA. Here is the quote from this NY-Times article...

"We really just needed to make the game a lot more accessible to a much broader player base," said Nancy MacIntyre, the game's senior director at LucasArts. "There was lots of reading, much too much, in the game. There was a lot of wandering around learning about different abilities. We really needed to give people the experience of being Han Solo or Luke Skywalker rather than being Uncle Owen, the moisture farmer. We wanted more instant gratification: kill, get treasure, repeat. We needed to give people more of an opportunity to be a part of what they have seen in the movies rather than something they had created themselves."

Not saying you don't have some points (specifically w/ the Cao quote, and Smed taking partial blame over the years), but those who live in glass houses and all that. Regardless of who you want to blame, the blame for the CU and NGE don't lay solely @ SoE's feet. It was initiated by what LA thought people wanted, b/c of the poor subs they were seeing, and they, together w/ SoE got together and the CU and NGE is what we got. But to try and say that SoE was solely responsible is a misnomer.

As for Vanguard you are taking snippets and using them to lay the blame solely at the feet of SoE, and Smedley in particular. The story you pulled from Wikipedia is a well known story, but you use the quotes from that story to imply that Smed cut Brad a check, which directly resulted in all Sigil employees being fired, which just isn't what happened. Yes, most of the staff were laid off in that manner, but more than anything, the way that all went down was due to Brad McQuaids lack of business savvy, or any discernible personnel management skills. Vanguards fate lay solely in Brad's lap, the guy may have had some really good ideas, but he totally failed at managing the day to day operations of a dev team, and all the problems resulted from that.

In fact, if any publisher is to blame for what happened to Vanguard, it's Microsoft. As has been established, the people @ MS never really knew what they were doing when it came to MMO's, as evidenced by what happened to Mythica, Vanguard, Marvel Universe Online, True Fantasy Online, and Halo Online. The problems Sigil had w/ MS were bad to begin w/, but what little support MMO's had at all, just up and disappeared when Ed Freis left MS, the people that took over knew even less about what it took to develop an MMO, and that's what led to SoE stepping in. Had SoE not stepped in, Vanguard probably never would have seen the light of day.

Now, I'm now saying SoE made all the right moves w/ Vanguard, they probably should have not taken a larger role in managing Sigil, pushed the release back, and sunk more money into the game. Then, the game might have had a chance, but at least w/ SoE it stood some chance. Yes, SoE made promises that were never met, and the game was put into "maintenance mode" for years, only to emerge recently. But Vanguards problems started WAAAY before SoE and Smed stepped in, and even trying to put half the blame at SoE's doorstep is revisionist history, lies and just outright fantasy.

 

No.

Maybe McIntyre also stated it but I am referring directly to Smedley's interview with Gamespot right after the NGE went live:

"Gamespot: What's the one lesson from your two years of seeing Star Wars Galaxies being played that you wish you knew sooner?

John Smedley: That straight sandbox games dont work.  And that we needed to focus much more on the Star Wars experience.  I think in the past, what we probably made was the Uncle Owen experience as opposed to the Luke experience.  We needed to deliver more of the Star Wars heroic and epic feeling to the game.  I think we missed there.  That's whatI think we really brought to the game."

Would love to share with you the forum posts from those days back on forums.station.sony.com but they archived and locked that crap down long ago.  

Vanguard, I actually had a bit more insight as did a few hundred other gamers with some of what was going on.  You see we were actually playing the game for oh, about a year or so under Microsoft, well if you would call it a game and a good couple months under Sigil.  Will say that the game that Sigil brought back into beta (truncated as it was) was 1000x better than what had been floundering along.  It was a personal loan from SOE/John Smedley to Brad McQuaid to get the game from Microsoft, Microsoft had dumped millions into the game under the impression that the man behind Everquest actually knew something about project management.  They probably should have pulled the plug after some 20 mil but Microsoft has rarely moved quickly on anything.  

Most of the testers became quite concerned, we had all been through the SOE hell and in response Smedley himself came into the forums stressing how they were only backing, not taking control over the game.  What proof do I have?  None.  I don't steal from companies.  Anyone else that recalls the transition from Microsoft to sigil would be able to comment on it, there were 40 or 50 of us that were active at the time.  Oh, and anyone that played Pirates of the Burning Sea before SOE's involvement would be able to corroborate the similarities between the two situations.

I don't blame SOE for the condition of the game, that is McQuaid, completely.  I blame SOE for releasing a shite game, knowing it was shite and telling everyone that it was them that was the problem. And I put the onus of that on Smedley because no good deed goes unpunished, and his buddy McQuaid did not, because of the hijinx that are well documented, deserve to be rescued.  It was pushed because they were selling the name and the lie, and Smedley had to cover the loan he had underwritten.  

Yes, I know it is foolish and naive to ever think that a company would give a crap about its customers.  Especially when their customers act like abused girl friends that convince themselves they deserve the beating they took.

You can see quite clearly how SOE has treated folks.  and if you think they should be rewarded, then go ahead give them your money and we will watch you vent and rage, and we'll tell you that we told you so and you will rant and rage at us then, at the end of the day, when Smed says he has another pile of shi errr another shiny new toy we can go through this experience again.  It was fun watching MMORPG.COM closing threads and erasing them from existence during the NGE era, and reading them saying no we didn't.  You know back then there were conspiracy theories that SOE had paid MMORPG.COM a crap ton of money so they could have moderation powers over the SWG forums here.  those were the days.   :)


  Murugan

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/18/08
Posts: 1570

7/02/13 7:24:14 PM#225
Originally posted by strangiato2112
Originally posted by Murugan

During the development of APW for Vanguard (AFTER SOE TOOK OVER) there were many developers working on the game, you can see their names referenced in the bosses there.  I talked to many of them on the test server.  Over the time I was SUBSCRIBED to the game along with many other people.

 

Back when the game had more than one server.

 

Back when the game had people paying for it every month.

 

Way back then... they decided to shuffle the development team to EQ2 and other titles

You are 100% wrong with your timeline.

SoE pulled development *because* no one was playing it.  SoE stopping development was the effect of VG being dead, not the cause.  In fact, it was pretty much dead when SoE acquired it.  They worked on it in hopes people would come back.  they didnt.

 

Yeah, maybe they had 10k subs when they stopped developing it and that number dropped to 5k.  but even SWG had 50k subs.

When Final Fantasy XIV failed and its subscriber numbers tanked (despite still being under the free trial) that company invested hundreds of millions of dollars into fixing the MMO, and now they are relaunching it to a largely positive reaction from fans.

 

What is SOE's excuse for not fixing their MMO's that had drops in sub #'s?  They don't have the same pride in their products?  That doesn't inspire confidence in them as publishers.

http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan

  Zorgo

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2217

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

7/02/13 7:25:51 PM#226
Originally posted by Xssiv
Originally posted by Zorgo
Originally posted by Xssiv
Originally posted by rojo6934
[mod edit]

[mod edit]

 

 

I don't think it his statement is any worse than this:

"Considering that this thread is 20+ pages and not one person has been able to produce any evidence of LA forcing the NGE onto SOE, I think people need to stop citing this as fact."

Especially, since you have been presented with evidence - you have simply rejected it. And as far as citing speculation as fact....well look who is calling the kettle black.

You have looked at your evidence and concluded that SOE and Smed are the problem. Others have looked at evidence and concluded the blame is elsewhere.

When you cite your speculation as fact then condemn others for doing the same.....well, get over it.

You wondered why people believed Smed and the hype. They told you. You don't consider their opinion valid and cite your opinion as fact. Yes....this thread needs to burn.

In the future, don't ask the question if you aren't willing to accept the answer.

Smed has concluded that SOE and Smed were the problem when it came to the NGE.

 

http://www.edge-online.com/news/star-wars-galaxies-changes-complete-and-utter-fail-says-soe-president/

 

The guy accepts full responsibility and apologizes.   I honestly don't know how this can be misconstrued

Then why do some think Oliver North is a hero? He accepted full responsibility and apologized for Iran/Contra. Apparently you have never heard of a 'fall guy'. And there is other evidence, also presented here, that this is exactly what smed did. 

I don't know the answer. I do know however that people have looked at the same facts and reached different conclusions. It is not the facts in question, it is your conclusion.

  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

7/02/13 7:29:07 PM#227
Originally posted by Murugan
Originally posted by strangiato2112
Originally posted by Murugan

During the development of APW for Vanguard (AFTER SOE TOOK OVER) there were many developers working on the game, you can see their names referenced in the bosses there.  I talked to many of them on the test server.  Over the time I was SUBSCRIBED to the game along with many other people.

 

Back when the game had more than one server.

 

Back when the game had people paying for it every month.

 

Way back then... they decided to shuffle the development team to EQ2 and other titles

You are 100% wrong with your timeline.

SoE pulled development *because* no one was playing it.  SoE stopping development was the effect of VG being dead, not the cause.  In fact, it was pretty much dead when SoE acquired it.  They worked on it in hopes people would come back.  they didnt.

 

Yeah, maybe they had 10k subs when they stopped developing it and that number dropped to 5k.  but even SWG had 50k subs.

When Final Fantasy XIV failed and its subscriber numbers tanked (despite still being under the free trial) that company invested hundreds of millions of dollars into fixing the MMO, and now they are relaunching it to a largely positive reaction from fans.

 

What is SOE's excuse for not fixing their MMO's that had drops in sub #'s?  They don't have the same pride in their products?  That doesn't inspire confidence in them as publishers.

I guess you missed the whole year and a half after acquisition when they tried?  People didnt want a complete redo of the game like FFXIV, they just wanted it fixed.  And SoE without question tried to do this.  You said it yourself, "there were many developers working on the game".

If FFXIV: ARR flops you think they are going to try it a 3rd time?

  Xssiv

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/18/10
Posts: 340

 
OP  7/02/13 7:29:21 PM#228
Originally posted by strangiato2112
Originally posted by Xssiv

Smed has concluded that SOE and Smed were the problem when it came to the NGE.

 

http://www.edge-online.com/news/star-wars-galaxies-changes-complete-and-utter-fail-says-soe-president/

 

The guy accepts full responsibility and apologizes.   I honestly don't know how this can be misconstrued

He said the decisions were stupid, he didnt say he was the one who made him.  Either you have zero reading comprehension skills or you are from Grobb. 

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/loadNews/8866

"With the NGE, I'm sorry about the mistake we made," he told us. "We screwed up and didn't listen to the fans when we should have, and it's not a mistake we're going to make again."

  zymurgeist

Elite Member

Joined: 12/24/04
Posts: 5199

7/02/13 7:30:51 PM#229
Why do people fall for any Corporation's hype? It's Hype. The game will speak for itself when it comes out. What it will have to say? Well that's the question, isn't it.

"Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  tank017

Novice Member

Joined: 7/09/06
Posts: 2206

7/02/13 7:31:33 PM#230

Its a matter of holding out hope that the game will be good.Its not a matter of everyone just automatically trusts and believes in SOE because they spout off a couple words.

 

Look at TSW.I had 0 faith in Funcom,but I still had hope that  TSW would be a good game and imo it is.

  Iadien

Novice Member

Joined: 2/12/04
Posts: 648

7/02/13 7:37:53 PM#231
Originally posted by Murugan
Originally posted by strangiato2112
Originally posted by Murugan

During the development of APW for Vanguard (AFTER SOE TOOK OVER) there were many developers working on the game, you can see their names referenced in the bosses there.  I talked to many of them on the test server.  Over the time I was SUBSCRIBED to the game along with many other people.

 

Back when the game had more than one server.

 

Back when the game had people paying for it every month.

 

Way back then... they decided to shuffle the development team to EQ2 and other titles

You are 100% wrong with your timeline.

SoE pulled development *because* no one was playing it.  SoE stopping development was the effect of VG being dead, not the cause.  In fact, it was pretty much dead when SoE acquired it.  They worked on it in hopes people would come back.  they didnt.

 

Yeah, maybe they had 10k subs when they stopped developing it and that number dropped to 5k.  but even SWG had 50k subs.

When Final Fantasy XIV failed and its subscriber numbers tanked (despite still being under the free trial) that company invested hundreds of millions of dollars into fixing the MMO, and now they are relaunching it to a largely positive reaction from fans.

 

What is SOE's excuse for not fixing their MMO's that had drops in sub #'s?  They don't have the same pride in their products?  That doesn't inspire confidence in them as publishers.

The FF brand holds just a tad more weight than EQ, and had just a tad more money (they burned through a lot of it). I tried FF14, and it is just another themepark MMO, but again, the FF brand has far more followers than EQ does. FF14 doesn't even need to bring anything new to the genre, it just needs to better than 1.0, which it is.

Originally posted by tank017

Its a matter of holding out hope that the game will be good.Its not a matter of everyone just automatically trusts and believes in SOE because they spout off a couple words.

 

Look at TSW.I had 0 faith in Funcom,but I still had hope that  TSW would be a good game and imo it is.

Correct. The game is F2P, it will require exactly zero dollars to know if the game is good or not. It is most definitely hope and not hype (at least for me).

  Allein

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/13
Posts: 1004

7/02/13 7:38:59 PM#232

Amazed this isn't locked yet, but...

I've never fallen for the hype. I use my own eyes and experience to judge. EQN could be great or a failure, until either is shown to me, I will be hopeful that it is where I will spend too much time in the future. 

While SWG and Vanguard didn't do so well, they were also going up against WoW in one way or another. I think that had a lot to do with any rushing or game changes to try and battle WoW's quick rise to the top. No matter what they did, I feel they were pretty doomed.

Pressure to compete with the best makes for bad/quick decisions and the results aren't usually great. Blame can be put on one person, company, or whatever, but it happened (a long while ago) and there is nothing stopping the same people/company from doing better this time around. Once in a while, people do learn, it can happen...

Again, it is a wait and see situation, but if you have no faith or some hatred towards SOE or those that work there, why bother wasting your time/energy on them? Move on and enjoy something you find more entertaining, unless pointless arguments without any winners is the best you have going currently.

  Dullahan

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/05
Posts: 754

Death to Themepark.

7/02/13 7:40:02 PM#233
Originally posted by Xssiv
Smed has concluded that SOE and Smed were the problem when it came to the NGE.

 

http://www.edge-online.com/news/star-wars-galaxies-changes-complete-and-utter-fail-says-soe-president/

 

The guy accepts full responsibility and apologizes.   I honestly don't know how this can be misconstrued

When you're the top dog in one of the biggest online gaming companies, you don't pass the buck if you're at fault even a little.  People will always hold it against you.  What he did was honorable, but also political.  What better way to show SOE fans that SOE is moving in the right direction than to take responsibility for past mistakes involving your company, regardless of how little you were actually at fault.

According to statements from those in charge at Lucas Arts, SOE and Smedley were hardly at fault.  If you can't see this was meant to exonerate him, not condemn him, you aren't as intelligent as you think.

Played EQ, UO, DAoC, AO, WoW, EQII, Vanguard, Ryzom, Darkfall, Warhammer, Rift, MO, Tera, DFUW, Age of Wushu, NW2, ESO and many others I don't remember or care to admit.
-
Awaiting The Repopulation, and Archeage.
-
Don't be ignorant. Get an MMO education!

  Iadien

Novice Member

Joined: 2/12/04
Posts: 648

7/02/13 7:42:44 PM#234
Originally posted by Dullahan
Originally posted by Xssiv
Smed has concluded that SOE and Smed were the problem when it came to the NGE.

 

http://www.edge-online.com/news/star-wars-galaxies-changes-complete-and-utter-fail-says-soe-president/

 

The guy accepts full responsibility and apologizes.   I honestly don't know how this can be misconstrued

When you're the top dog in one of the biggest online gaming companies, you don't pass the buck if you're at fault even a little.  People will always hold it against you.  What he did was honorable, but also political.  What better way to show SOE fans that SOE is moving in the right direction than to take responsibility for past mistakes involving your company, regardless of how little you were actually at fault.

According to statements from those in charge at Lucas Arts, SOE and Smedley were hardly at fault.  If you can't see this was meant to exonerate him, not condemn him, you aren't as intelligent as you think.

Are people ignorant of fall guys? It sure seems that way.

  Derros

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/16/09
Posts: 1023

7/02/13 7:43:39 PM#235

Honestly with the history behind the development of Vanguard I'm surprised that its still around.  When SOE picked it up, they probably thought it was closer to being ready than it was, and they werent prepared to invest more than they did.  Bad business move?  Yes, evil and coniving? nope.

 

SWG? that issue is so muddled, who can really say who had the final call.  Of course it was gonna be Smed who took the blame, he wants to keep his job.  Thats his job, to take the blame when things go bad.

 

Honestly, Ive never liked a SOE game, but I hope EQnext does well.

  Dullahan

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/05
Posts: 754

Death to Themepark.

7/02/13 7:44:35 PM#236
Originally posted by Iadien
Originally posted by Dullahan
Originally posted by Xssiv
Smed has concluded that SOE and Smed were the problem when it came to the NGE.

 

http://www.edge-online.com/news/star-wars-galaxies-changes-complete-and-utter-fail-says-soe-president/

 

The guy accepts full responsibility and apologizes.   I honestly don't know how this can be misconstrued

When you're the top dog in one of the biggest online gaming companies, you don't pass the buck if you're at fault even a little.  People will always hold it against you.  What he did was honorable, but also political.  What better way to show SOE fans that SOE is moving in the right direction than to take responsibility for past mistakes involving your company, regardless of how little you were actually at fault.

According to statements from those in charge at Lucas Arts, SOE and Smedley were hardly at fault.  If you can't see this was meant to exonerate him, not condemn him, you aren't as intelligent as you think.

Are people ignorant of fall guys? It sure seems that way.

It does indeed.

Played EQ, UO, DAoC, AO, WoW, EQII, Vanguard, Ryzom, Darkfall, Warhammer, Rift, MO, Tera, DFUW, Age of Wushu, NW2, ESO and many others I don't remember or care to admit.
-
Awaiting The Repopulation, and Archeage.
-
Don't be ignorant. Get an MMO education!

  udon

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1622

7/02/13 7:47:16 PM#237
Originally posted by Xssiv

Not so many years ago SOE, at John Smedley's direction, gutted and ruined SWG, basically causing a legendary mass exodus from the game.  

A few years later, SOE aquires Sigil games and forces the premature release of Vanguard, which was regarded by many to be one of the worst launches of any major MMO. 

At the time of Vanguard's release (arguably the first iteration of EQN), Smedley promised long term support and upcoming expansion packs.  We all know how that went.

 

So how is it that everyone is suddenly so confident that EQN will be such a great game?   Do the words "Everquest" and "sandbox" mentioned in the same sentence suddenly activate a chemical in the brain that causes selective amnesia?

Your wearing some awful big rose glasses there.

NGE happened because SWG wasn't a success to SOE and wasn't doing well in there eyes (the only ones that really matter in the end).  Yea it was the wrong cure to the issue but the issue still existed.

Vanguard was saved by SOE not killed.  If SOE hadn't stepped forward  it would have died.  To this day I don't really understand why they did it since they already had 2 fantasy MMO's at the time.  They could have done nothing and watched it die.  I was in Vanguard closed beta and remember the events of the month up to launch very well.  Yea SOE should have stepped up and put  release on hold once they saw the mess that it was but that was more about what Sigil told SOE about the game vs where it really was.  Sigil was to blame for Vanguard not SOE and people should be happy Sony keep it going as long as they did instead of just cutting their loses like other game publishers do.

  keenber

Novice Member

Joined: 7/10/07
Posts: 438

7/02/13 7:47:42 PM#238

WoW all this about a game that started 10 years ago when there was a major change in the way mmos were going. I played SWG from beta up till they closed and although original swg was a great idea and huge fun it wasn't perfect. After they changed it it was a different game but still a great game. That was all thanks to SOE even if LA did cause the changes to SWG ( which i am sure it was from reading the press back in the day ) They kept SWG going for all them years when they had EQ and EQ2 both suffering from the wow effect.

We are again in a time of change like we were in 04 when wow changed it all but the big question is will it be EQN that sets the way for the next 10 years. I hope so.

  Sarethor

Novice Member

Joined: 10/02/07
Posts: 41

7/02/13 7:51:33 PM#239
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by Vorthanion

You assume that Sony would be stupid enough to invest in and develop a game with no say so whatsoever?  You're the one sounding foolish my friend.  What company in their right mind would let the IP holder dictate the business decisions when they are only there for IP integrity and no actual financial investment or obligation other than to get their royalties?  SOE would have gone out of business a long time ago if they actually did things the way you paint them.

SOE has some say depending on how the negotiations ended up and how the legal documents are written.  The thing is that the Star Wars IP is an extremely hard IP to deal with, and the license needs to be renewed.  Upsetting or refusing to compromise (or even completely bend to) a licensor would be a disaster.)

SOE had an extremely small amount of input when it came to NGE.

What company would let a licensor do this?  A company that made a game completely based on that specific IP.  If the NFL told EA's Madden team that they wanted something, EA would jump through hoops to appease them and do as they wish, because a football game without the NFL license would be trash and wouldn't sell.

In SOE SWG case, LA got what LA wanted.  If they had denied LA their demands, LA would have not renewed the license and then the entire game would have had to be recreated from the ground up to not use any Star Wars IP, or shut it down when the license expired.

When it comes to some games, licenses may not be a big deal.  For example, not getting licensed to use real world gun models in your game (M4, M16, M240b) isn't a huge deal because you can just change the name and tweak the looks a tiny bit (as many games often do).  However, when you game is completely based on an IP, the licensor owns you.  That's why so many companies try to create original IPs and stick to stuff they own or create.

Take some classes on game design.  They cover all this in the freshmen year.

Wasting your breath on that one, Gallus. 

 

He might as well be claiming the universe is geocentric.   Thankfully, there are those in the universe who know and acknowledge that was proven false many centuries ago - similar with this case.   Many just don't have the education and/or the experience to interpret data correctly.

The internet is an amazing platform for some people to showcase their deficiencies as a person.

Regards,
Sarethor

  bingbongbros

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/21/10
Posts: 586

7/02/13 7:55:09 PM#240
Originally posted by Xssiv

Not so many years ago SOE, at John Smedley's direction, gutted and ruined SWG, basically causing a legendary mass exodus from the game.  

A few years later, SOE aquires Sigil games and forces the premature release of Vanguard, which was regarded by many to be one of the worst launches of any major MMO. 

At the time of Vanguard's release (arguably the first iteration of EQN), Smedley promised long term support and upcoming expansion packs.  We all know how that went.

 

So how is it that everyone is suddenly so confident that EQN will be such a great game?   Do the words "Everquest" and "sandbox" mentioned in the same sentence suddenly activate a chemical in the brain that causes selective amnesia?

 

 

 

Man this Smed guy sounds like some sort of super villain! Too bad everything you said was inaccurate....

Playing: Smite
Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO
Waiting On: Nothing really, though Black Desert looks pretty amazing so far.

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