Trending Games | ArcheAge | World of Warcraft | Destiny | Star Trek Online

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,856,561 Users Online:0
Games:740  Posts:6,240,769
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn 

General Discussion  » End Game Content

3 Pages « 1 2 3 Search
58 posts found
  Xatsh

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/13/10
Posts: 74

7/02/13 4:15:37 PM#41

The everything has to be catered to casuals is one of the main issues with gaming today. Not just only in mmos but gaming in general.

 

MMOs at endgame should have a strong focus on building a guild and coming together to take down epic bosses and clear challanging content. You lost both the guild feeling and the epicness when you scale down to low man. <10 people in my books.

 

MMOs should have content for everyone. Just as many hardcores hate the casual elements, the casuals should expect to hate some of the hardcore elements in a game. Keeping both the casuals happy and the hardcores happy will make the game over all better in the end. This cannot be achieved with the same content.  Devs just have to have enough content for everyone.Gaming is no different then a sport in real life. If you are playing something casual, only for fun do not expect to be at the level of someone putting in 30-40hrs a week into it.

 

Having everything designed for casuals rips guilds apart because it forces you to static group more or less (which is the anti guild), and the content last a fraction of the time if you play more then 10-12hrs a week. Wow was brought up earlier and it is a great example of the issue. at any one time you only have 2 months of content... then you are forced to log off and wait. I do not know why people accept this, a mmo should be a never ending game. They should not be like offline games with DLC.

 

I say to the casuals who cannot join a guild (which makes no sense) or team up to do  24man (makes even less sense) or dedicate more then 50mins at a time (why are you playing a mmo)... just do not do that content it is not made for you and it should be accepted. Play the loads of other content instead and leave those who enjoy making a large guilds and allow  those who enjoy large groups to be able to continue enjoying the game.

  danwest58

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 557

7/02/13 4:27:57 PM#42
Originally posted by Xatsh

I say to the casuals who cannot join a guild (which makes no sense) or team up to do  24man (makes even less sense) or dedicate more then 50mins at a time (why are you playing a mmo)... just do not do that content it is not made for you and it should be accepted. Play the loads of other content instead and leave those who enjoy making a large guilds and allow  those who enjoy large groups to be able to continue enjoying the game.

You can say that all you want however here is the problem.  People like me and many of my friends have already done the large raids.  At the end of the day we either raid in our 10 to 16 man group or we dont raid at all.  If we dont raid at all whats the point of a subscription.  You can Blame acasuals all you want for not wanting to join a large guild.  Sorry I am not a number to stand in line and wait for a raid spot.  Not going to ever happen the day I need to wait because the only way I can raid is join a large raiding guild is the day I am done with the game.  People can say all they want about it, FACTS ARE people no longer want the large group drama that comes with 20+ man raids.  You cannot tell me there is no drama in large guilds I been there for long enough I am done with them guilds.  I will raid with my group of friends or not at all.  I will meet new friends on the way however its not fast enough to build a raiding guild on.  You guys can complain all you want about dumbing down the content because it requires fewer numbers however fact is smaller groups more people go.  760 Guilds raided content on Stormrage so far, thats more guilds that ever raided 40 or 20 or even 25 man content in WoW.  More choices for people to get into their groups they want and see the content they want without the BS Drama.

  danwest58

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 557

7/02/13 4:29:12 PM#43
Originally posted by Sefiruso
Originally posted by Arcticnoon
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by Arcticnoon
Originally posted by danwest58

 

I understand what you are saying and agree with some of it. I also think you are missing the point of endgame. Wow has spoiled todays mmo players. Endgame is to aquire the best of the best. Just like in real life the best isnt for everyone.

You cant walk into a porshe dealership and say "I really like that 911 you have there for 90k, I'd like you to make another version of that car thats exactly the same, exept its only 20k."

FFXIV endgame is 24 man. You arent going to be able to do it with less. If you want the best you'll have to work and sacrifice for it. This means your time, energy and yes... sometimes drama.

You dont have to have the best of engame to enjoy all the other elements of the game. I believe it is fair.

I understand the point of end game.  The problem is when you have kids, a family, and a career all of those come first.  With the average MMO player being 36 only 3 years older then me and 54% of the MMO community falling into that category you cannot ignore them as much as people want.  I can tell you from being a leader for so long that as soon as people hit were I am at the large raid groups mean nothing a long with the MMO.  So here is SE problem they either accept it or they loose $13 a month from people who do not and will not do large raids ever again.  One just needs to look at WoW and see that 2% of the raiding guilds on the top raiding server are 25 man raiding guilds.  People can be so against it all they want however Money talks.  Today's MMO players are different and SE is putting all of its money on end game and if they ignore the casual player now and force 24 man groups it will not work.  Look at Rift, they were one of the harder core raiding games out in the last 5 years, with the focus on 20 man raiding.  Only 6 to 12 raiding guilds ever toughed end game in 20 man content because the effort needed to do it is no longer worth it.  I respect that you like large content raids however times have changed.  

You make a very good point. Though I dont have children, being 34, most of lifes responsibilities dont afford me the time i had in my 20s.

Let me ask you this though. What happens if FFXIV adopts the 8 man raid same as Wows 10?

I played Wow for for over a year. I enjoyed many aspects of it, but my main problem was being from FFXI (my first mmo) I could finish everything too quickly.

I once started playing at 11am on a saturday, and by midnight, i had gathered every herb i needed for alchemy through herbalism and leveled alchemy from 1 - 525.

After a couple of weeks I had good enough gear to tank Deathwing after reaching lvl 80. I even skipped Firelands. After beating deathwing a couple of times with my 10 man... there was really nothing much to do, exept PvP or start another alt.

So I quit. MoP came out a couple months later. I started up again and after 2 months it was same old story. Nothing to do that interested me.

Previously I had played FFXi for 5 years straight, because the game always had challenges that were just beyond my reach.

If FFXIV allowes the casual player easy access to everything, people with more time on their hands will have nothing to do after a couple of months. For a new game with limited continent, this is very bad for business.

 

I'd be more than happy for there to be a hardcore mode for hardcore players. Even for a casual player like me that will still be something to maybe eventually aim for. Also i wouldn't mind waiting 3-6 months for scaled down content either I'd simple like to experience it at some point.

 

I think a few people have hit the nail on the head there needs to be a balance you need the hardcore gamers to go out and clear challenging and rewarding content. Then a few months down the line let the casuals have a pop.

 

I'll happily admit I've become a bit of an MMO "noob" since i quit WOW after WOTLK I've not played end game content for maybe 5 years now :/ but from posts like this I'm seeing what the game does offer the casual player and i think I'll be more than happy with gearing up and challenging the 8 man content :) Housing, professions and other stuff. 

I am with you on that I dont mind waiting but I do not want to be forced into a 24 man raid to see the content.

  Murugan

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/08
Posts: 1567

7/02/13 4:34:28 PM#44
Originally posted by Sefiruso
Originally posted by Arcticnoon
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by Arcticnoon
Originally posted by danwest58

 

I understand what you are saying and agree with some of it. I also think you are missing the point of endgame. Wow has spoiled todays mmo players. Endgame is to aquire the best of the best. Just like in real life the best isnt for everyone.

You cant walk into a porshe dealership and say "I really like that 911 you have there for 90k, I'd like you to make another version of that car thats exactly the same, exept its only 20k."

FFXIV endgame is 24 man. You arent going to be able to do it with less. If you want the best you'll have to work and sacrifice for it. This means your time, energy and yes... sometimes drama.

You dont have to have the best of engame to enjoy all the other elements of the game. I believe it is fair.

I understand the point of end game.  The problem is when you have kids, a family, and a career all of those come first.  With the average MMO player being 36 only 3 years older then me and 54% of the MMO community falling into that category you cannot ignore them as much as people want.  I can tell you from being a leader for so long that as soon as people hit were I am at the large raid groups mean nothing a long with the MMO.  So here is SE problem they either accept it or they loose $13 a month from people who do not and will not do large raids ever again.  One just needs to look at WoW and see that 2% of the raiding guilds on the top raiding server are 25 man raiding guilds.  People can be so against it all they want however Money talks.  Today's MMO players are different and SE is putting all of its money on end game and if they ignore the casual player now and force 24 man groups it will not work.  Look at Rift, they were one of the harder core raiding games out in the last 5 years, with the focus on 20 man raiding.  Only 6 to 12 raiding guilds ever toughed end game in 20 man content because the effort needed to do it is no longer worth it.  I respect that you like large content raids however times have changed.  

You make a very good point. Though I dont have children, being 34, most of lifes responsibilities dont afford me the time i had in my 20s.

Let me ask you this though. What happens if FFXIV adopts the 8 man raid same as Wows 10?

I played Wow for for over a year. I enjoyed many aspects of it, but my main problem was being from FFXI (my first mmo) I could finish everything too quickly.

I once started playing at 11am on a saturday, and by midnight, i had gathered every herb i needed for alchemy through herbalism and leveled alchemy from 1 - 525.

After a couple of weeks I had good enough gear to tank Deathwing after reaching lvl 80. I even skipped Firelands. After beating deathwing a couple of times with my 10 man... there was really nothing much to do, exept PvP or start another alt.

So I quit. MoP came out a couple months later. I started up again and after 2 months it was same old story. Nothing to do that interested me.

Previously I had played FFXi for 5 years straight, because the game always had challenges that were just beyond my reach.

If FFXIV allowes the casual player easy access to everything, people with more time on their hands will have nothing to do after a couple of months. For a new game with limited continent, this is very bad for business.

 

I'd be more than happy for there to be a hardcore mode for hardcore players. Even for a casual player like me that will still be something to maybe eventually aim for. Also i wouldn't mind waiting 3-6 months for scaled down content either I'd simple like to experience it at some point.

 

I think a few people have hit the nail on the head there needs to be a balance you need the hardcore gamers to go out and clear challenging and rewarding content. Then a few months down the line let the casuals have a pop.

 

I'll happily admit I've become a bit of an MMO "noob" since i quit WOW after WOTLK I've not played end game content for maybe 5 years now :/ but from posts like this I'm seeing what the game does offer the casual player and i think I'll be more than happy with gearing up and challenging the 8 man content :) Housing, professions and other stuff. 

I don't know if you caught my post above Artic Moon's but I just want to point again that ALL CONTENT will be accessible to casuals.

 

If you do not play "hardcore" then you will not be consuming content at the rate it is released anyways, so the fact that something like Crystal Tower and Bahamut are 24 person raids shouldn't be an issue for people who can't play them.  They have plenty of content to do, and once they finish that those two zones will likely be retuned, the "hardcore" will move on to new stuff, and everyone will get a chance to experience everything.

 

This was even the case in 1.0.  The first dungeon Dzamael Darkhold (patch 1.18) was difficult when it was first released, it was "cutting edge", but by 1.20 it had been retuned so that 4-8 people could do it.  It wasn't "faceroll" easy either, people still wiped but they didn't even need a full group (8 people) to do it any longer at 50.  That was with the skeleton crew that was developing for 1.0 while they simultaneously built up ARR.

 

In ARR they are going to develop much more resources to content, keeping it fresh, and opening it up to wider groups of players.  The FATE system is really perfect for this.  Take primals, once primals are no longer being farmed in their instances by groups they will move them to the open world as FATE.

 

But this is not just a gimmick, it not only makes the content accessible but there is reason for people to still do the content.  Those primals once defeated will be able to be summoned by the group to unleash a powerful attack (maybe in the PvP zones etc., so powerful it changes the weather in the zone and everyone knows what has just happened).

 

I think Yoshida has the right balance in mind for hardcore/casual, most MMO's today have neglected the "hardcore" to appease the casual and most MMO's in the past did the same to casuals.  Here you have a developer who is trying to genuinely make everyone happy regardless of who gives him more money at the end of the day (which is why games today are going casual only, like LOTRO dropping all group content... I just never thought I'd see the day a developer would do that).

http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7240

7/02/13 4:42:52 PM#45
 

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16683

7/02/13 4:50:33 PM#46
Originally posted by Robokapp
the whole point of guilds is so they are not random people but people alike who bond together for common interests. If you're guilded with random people you need a new guild.

Agreed, I think OP needs a new guild recruitment officer.

Myself I play in 2 types of guilds: either with IRL friends and their friends or with people I and other officers carefully recruits from PUGs and other people we meet during playing. And we don't really pick up the best playing people, rather nice players who are willing to learn the game together with us.

I have in fact recruited many noobs and learned them the ropes and most of them have become excellent players without becoming jerks. Don't recruit too many players too fast and try to pick people who seems nice instead of someone with cool gear. Train your noobs up and you are set for a good guild.

Bad guilds random invites people and that rarely turns out good.

  Xatsh

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/13/10
Posts: 74

7/03/13 7:58:02 AM#47
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by Xatsh

I say to the casuals who cannot join a guild (which makes no sense) or team up to do  24man (makes even less sense) or dedicate more then 50mins at a time (why are you playing a mmo)... just do not do that content it is not made for you and it should be accepted. Play the loads of other content instead and leave those who enjoy making a large guilds and allow  those who enjoy large groups to be able to continue enjoying the game.

You can say that all you want however here is the problem.  People like me and many of my friends have already done the large raids.  At the end of the day we either raid in our 10 to 16 man group or we dont raid at all.  If we dont raid at all whats the point of a subscription.  You can Blame acasuals all you want for not wanting to join a large guild.  Sorry I am not a number to stand in line and wait for a raid spot.  Not going to ever happen the day I need to wait because the only way I can raid is join a large raiding guild is the day I am done with the game.  People can say all they want about it, FACTS ARE people no longer want the large group drama that comes with 20+ man raids.  You cannot tell me there is no drama in large guilds I been there for long enough I am done with them guilds.  I will raid with my group of friends or not at all.  I will meet new friends on the way however its not fast enough to build a raiding guild on.  You guys can complain all you want about dumbing down the content because it requires fewer numbers however fact is smaller groups more people go.  760 Guilds raided content on Stormrage so far, thats more guilds that ever raided 40 or 20 or even 25 man content in WoW.  More choices for people to get into their groups they want and see the content they want without the BS Drama.

Now I get the opposite effect as you. When you do 8 man content you have loads of people sitting out. Was the main issue running my guild had with XIV all the way until shutdown for ARR. You would end up having 19-21 people on at once causing 3-7 people to sit out of the group every night. Try logging in for Guild Events and be told yea filled up we will rep you in a few runs (1hr usually). Bring in alliance content and that 21 people can all just walk into it. 1 group no waiting doing things as a whole guild.

The large alliance content actually easily allow the group to participate without waiting. And there are millions of people who still want large group  content, just as there is ton of people who hate WoW and tons of people who hate action combat.  People like different things in a mmo. Why I stated there needs to be content for everyone. Casuals should not get everything. There is absolutly no reason to not have both low and high man content in a mmo.

  Buccaneer

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/31/07
Posts: 433

7/03/13 9:00:36 AM#48
Thanks for the thread OP   A lot of the info provided by others have helped ease my fears.  It looks like there will be loads to do for a non raider at endgame and that is all I ask for in a MMO.  I've got nothing against large scale raids and I'm glad they will be getting content to enjoy.  As long as future content is plentiful and varied for different playstyles, I can see myself subbing for a long time.
  danwest58

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 557

7/03/13 8:19:06 PM#49
Originally posted by Xatsh
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by Xatsh

I say to the casuals who cannot join a guild (which makes no sense) or team up to do  24man (makes even less sense) or dedicate more then 50mins at a time (why are you playing a mmo)... just do not do that content it is not made for you and it should be accepted. Play the loads of other content instead and leave those who enjoy making a large guilds and allow  those who enjoy large groups to be able to continue enjoying the game.

You can say that all you want however here is the problem.  People like me and many of my friends have already done the large raids.  At the end of the day we either raid in our 10 to 16 man group or we dont raid at all.  If we dont raid at all whats the point of a subscription.  You can Blame acasuals all you want for not wanting to join a large guild.  Sorry I am not a number to stand in line and wait for a raid spot.  Not going to ever happen the day I need to wait because the only way I can raid is join a large raiding guild is the day I am done with the game.  People can say all they want about it, FACTS ARE people no longer want the large group drama that comes with 20+ man raids.  You cannot tell me there is no drama in large guilds I been there for long enough I am done with them guilds.  I will raid with my group of friends or not at all.  I will meet new friends on the way however its not fast enough to build a raiding guild on.  You guys can complain all you want about dumbing down the content because it requires fewer numbers however fact is smaller groups more people go.  760 Guilds raided content on Stormrage so far, thats more guilds that ever raided 40 or 20 or even 25 man content in WoW.  More choices for people to get into their groups they want and see the content they want without the BS Drama.

Now I get the opposite effect as you. When you do 8 man content you have loads of people sitting out. Was the main issue running my guild had with XIV all the way until shutdown for ARR. You would end up having 19-21 people on at once causing 3-7 people to sit out of the group every night. Try logging in for Guild Events and be told yea filled up we will rep you in a few runs (1hr usually). Bring in alliance content and that 21 people can all just walk into it. 1 group no waiting doing things as a whole guild.

The large alliance content actually easily allow the group to participate without waiting. And there are millions of people who still want large group  content, just as there is ton of people who hate WoW and tons of people who hate action combat.  People like different things in a mmo. Why I stated there needs to be content for everyone. Casuals should not get everything. There is absolutly no reason to not have both low and high man content in a mmo.

No there are not Millions of players that want Large group content.  LOTRO was 24 man raids could not successed with large raids cut down to 12 man raids.  EQ2 Same thing from 24 down to 12.  WOW the best raiding server has 2% of all raiding guilds on that server raids 25 man content.  RIFT only a half a dozen raiding guilds on each server raid 20 man raids?  Large raids are dead as many people that want to say otherwise there are 0 games that main focus is on large raids because they do not work.  Hell Even Terra started at 20 man and had to switch to 10 man raids because no one was raiding.  

Now IF FFXIV scales raids from 8 to 24 people you almost never have to worry about a bench unless you want 24 people all the time.  If the content is scaled to allow 8 to 24 players smaller FCs can recruit the right people and run things their way and large hardcore FCs can do that same.

 

Sorry People Keep defending large raids when all the evidence is against large raids as much as people want to tout that they are THE BEST.  They are not, they are a management nightmare that few players today want to deal with.  I know I use to run  a 40 man guild and was a raid leader, I will never do that again. 

  Murugan

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/08
Posts: 1567

7/03/13 8:41:01 PM#50
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by Xatsh
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by Xatsh

I say to the casuals who cannot join a guild (which makes no sense) or team up to do  24man (makes even less sense) or dedicate more then 50mins at a time (why are you playing a mmo)... just do not do that content it is not made for you and it should be accepted. Play the loads of other content instead and leave those who enjoy making a large guilds and allow  those who enjoy large groups to be able to continue enjoying the game.

You can say that all you want however here is the problem.  People like me and many of my friends have already done the large raids.  At the end of the day we either raid in our 10 to 16 man group or we dont raid at all.  If we dont raid at all whats the point of a subscription.  You can Blame acasuals all you want for not wanting to join a large guild.  Sorry I am not a number to stand in line and wait for a raid spot.  Not going to ever happen the day I need to wait because the only way I can raid is join a large raiding guild is the day I am done with the game.  People can say all they want about it, FACTS ARE people no longer want the large group drama that comes with 20+ man raids.  You cannot tell me there is no drama in large guilds I been there for long enough I am done with them guilds.  I will raid with my group of friends or not at all.  I will meet new friends on the way however its not fast enough to build a raiding guild on.  You guys can complain all you want about dumbing down the content because it requires fewer numbers however fact is smaller groups more people go.  760 Guilds raided content on Stormrage so far, thats more guilds that ever raided 40 or 20 or even 25 man content in WoW.  More choices for people to get into their groups they want and see the content they want without the BS Drama.

Now I get the opposite effect as you. When you do 8 man content you have loads of people sitting out. Was the main issue running my guild had with XIV all the way until shutdown for ARR. You would end up having 19-21 people on at once causing 3-7 people to sit out of the group every night. Try logging in for Guild Events and be told yea filled up we will rep you in a few runs (1hr usually). Bring in alliance content and that 21 people can all just walk into it. 1 group no waiting doing things as a whole guild.

The large alliance content actually easily allow the group to participate without waiting. And there are millions of people who still want large group  content, just as there is ton of people who hate WoW and tons of people who hate action combat.  People like different things in a mmo. Why I stated there needs to be content for everyone. Casuals should not get everything. There is absolutly no reason to not have both low and high man content in a mmo.

No there are not Millions of players that want Large group content.  LOTRO was 24 man raids could not successed with large raids cut down to 12 man raids.  EQ2 Same thing from 24 down to 12.  WOW the best raiding server has 2% of all raiding guilds on that server raids 25 man content.  RIFT only a half a dozen raiding guilds on each server raid 20 man raids?  Large raids are dead as many people that want to say otherwise there are 0 games that main focus is on large raids because they do not work.  Hell Even Terra started at 20 man and had to switch to 10 man raids because no one was raiding.  

Now IF FFXIV scales raids from 8 to 24 people you almost never have to worry about a bench unless you want 24 people all the time.  If the content is scaled to allow 8 to 24 players smaller FCs can recruit the right people and run things their way and large hardcore FCs can do that same.

 

Sorry People Keep defending large raids when all the evidence is against large raids as much as people want to tout that they are THE BEST.  They are not, they are a management nightmare that few players today want to deal with.  I know I use to run  a 40 man guild and was a raid leader, I will never do that again. 

Lord of the Rings Online recently announced they were no longer supporting group content.

 

Not just raid content, GROUP CONTENT.

 

Let's not use Lord of the Rings Online as a good example of MMO design trends ever again, okay? 

 

Unless this is the inevitable conclusion you want us to reach in FFXIV also, in which case I will flip out and call you names.

http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan

  danwest58

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 557

7/03/13 8:47:59 PM#51
Originally posted by Murugan
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by Xatsh
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by Xatsh

I say to the casuals who cannot join a guild (which makes no sense) or team up to do  24man (makes even less sense) or dedicate more then 50mins at a time (why are you playing a mmo)... just do not do that content it is not made for you and it should be accepted. Play the loads of other content instead and leave those who enjoy making a large guilds and allow  those who enjoy large groups to be able to continue enjoying the game.

You can say that all you want however here is the problem.  People like me and many of my friends have already done the large raids.  At the end of the day we either raid in our 10 to 16 man group or we dont raid at all.  If we dont raid at all whats the point of a subscription.  You can Blame acasuals all you want for not wanting to join a large guild.  Sorry I am not a number to stand in line and wait for a raid spot.  Not going to ever happen the day I need to wait because the only way I can raid is join a large raiding guild is the day I am done with the game.  People can say all they want about it, FACTS ARE people no longer want the large group drama that comes with 20+ man raids.  You cannot tell me there is no drama in large guilds I been there for long enough I am done with them guilds.  I will raid with my group of friends or not at all.  I will meet new friends on the way however its not fast enough to build a raiding guild on.  You guys can complain all you want about dumbing down the content because it requires fewer numbers however fact is smaller groups more people go.  760 Guilds raided content on Stormrage so far, thats more guilds that ever raided 40 or 20 or even 25 man content in WoW.  More choices for people to get into their groups they want and see the content they want without the BS Drama.

Now I get the opposite effect as you. When you do 8 man content you have loads of people sitting out. Was the main issue running my guild had with XIV all the way until shutdown for ARR. You would end up having 19-21 people on at once causing 3-7 people to sit out of the group every night. Try logging in for Guild Events and be told yea filled up we will rep you in a few runs (1hr usually). Bring in alliance content and that 21 people can all just walk into it. 1 group no waiting doing things as a whole guild.

The large alliance content actually easily allow the group to participate without waiting. And there are millions of people who still want large group  content, just as there is ton of people who hate WoW and tons of people who hate action combat.  People like different things in a mmo. Why I stated there needs to be content for everyone. Casuals should not get everything. There is absolutly no reason to not have both low and high man content in a mmo.

No there are not Millions of players that want Large group content.  LOTRO was 24 man raids could not successed with large raids cut down to 12 man raids.  EQ2 Same thing from 24 down to 12.  WOW the best raiding server has 2% of all raiding guilds on that server raids 25 man content.  RIFT only a half a dozen raiding guilds on each server raid 20 man raids?  Large raids are dead as many people that want to say otherwise there are 0 games that main focus is on large raids because they do not work.  Hell Even Terra started at 20 man and had to switch to 10 man raids because no one was raiding.  

Now IF FFXIV scales raids from 8 to 24 people you almost never have to worry about a bench unless you want 24 people all the time.  If the content is scaled to allow 8 to 24 players smaller FCs can recruit the right people and run things their way and large hardcore FCs can do that same.

 

Sorry People Keep defending large raids when all the evidence is against large raids as much as people want to tout that they are THE BEST.  They are not, they are a management nightmare that few players today want to deal with.  I know I use to run  a 40 man guild and was a raid leader, I will never do that again. 

Lord of the Rings Online recently announced they were no longer supporting group content.

 

Not just raid content, GROUP CONTENT.

 

Let's not use Lord of the Rings Online as a good example of MMO design trends ever again, okay? 

The point is every MMO that wanted to say HEY WE HAVE LARGER RAID CONTENT as Rift, Lotro and EQ did has there cut the size of the raid groups down like LOTRO and EQ did and LOTRO cut everything group out.  Or like Rift End game is 5 man instances because few players even touch the raids because there is little interest in the 10 mans because they do not drop the gear like the 20 mans do.  Again I think Scaling 8 to 24 people would work well because its extremely flexible.  Hell cause WoW is now doing Flex raids I have several of my friends want to go back there even though they do not want anything to do with WoW, because if they are not able to make a raid a week or 2 the raid can still function on some level.  The core problem with set raid numbers is you must have a bench.  It does not matter if its 8, 10, 16, 20, 24, 25, or 40 because how ever many people that are on that night you can take unless you have 25 on for a 24 max raid.  

  Murugan

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/08
Posts: 1567

7/03/13 8:55:05 PM#52
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by Murugan
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by Xatsh
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by Xatsh

I say to the casuals who cannot join a guild (which makes no sense) or team up to do  24man (makes even less sense) or dedicate more then 50mins at a time (why are you playing a mmo)... just do not do that content it is not made for you and it should be accepted. Play the loads of other content instead and leave those who enjoy making a large guilds and allow  those who enjoy large groups to be able to continue enjoying the game.

You can say that all you want however here is the problem.  People like me and many of my friends have already done the large raids.  At the end of the day we either raid in our 10 to 16 man group or we dont raid at all.  If we dont raid at all whats the point of a subscription.  You can Blame acasuals all you want for not wanting to join a large guild.  Sorry I am not a number to stand in line and wait for a raid spot.  Not going to ever happen the day I need to wait because the only way I can raid is join a large raiding guild is the day I am done with the game.  People can say all they want about it, FACTS ARE people no longer want the large group drama that comes with 20+ man raids.  You cannot tell me there is no drama in large guilds I been there for long enough I am done with them guilds.  I will raid with my group of friends or not at all.  I will meet new friends on the way however its not fast enough to build a raiding guild on.  You guys can complain all you want about dumbing down the content because it requires fewer numbers however fact is smaller groups more people go.  760 Guilds raided content on Stormrage so far, thats more guilds that ever raided 40 or 20 or even 25 man content in WoW.  More choices for people to get into their groups they want and see the content they want without the BS Drama.

Now I get the opposite effect as you. When you do 8 man content you have loads of people sitting out. Was the main issue running my guild had with XIV all the way until shutdown for ARR. You would end up having 19-21 people on at once causing 3-7 people to sit out of the group every night. Try logging in for Guild Events and be told yea filled up we will rep you in a few runs (1hr usually). Bring in alliance content and that 21 people can all just walk into it. 1 group no waiting doing things as a whole guild.

The large alliance content actually easily allow the group to participate without waiting. And there are millions of people who still want large group  content, just as there is ton of people who hate WoW and tons of people who hate action combat.  People like different things in a mmo. Why I stated there needs to be content for everyone. Casuals should not get everything. There is absolutly no reason to not have both low and high man content in a mmo.

No there are not Millions of players that want Large group content.  LOTRO was 24 man raids could not successed with large raids cut down to 12 man raids.  EQ2 Same thing from 24 down to 12.  WOW the best raiding server has 2% of all raiding guilds on that server raids 25 man content.  RIFT only a half a dozen raiding guilds on each server raid 20 man raids?  Large raids are dead as many people that want to say otherwise there are 0 games that main focus is on large raids because they do not work.  Hell Even Terra started at 20 man and had to switch to 10 man raids because no one was raiding.  

Now IF FFXIV scales raids from 8 to 24 people you almost never have to worry about a bench unless you want 24 people all the time.  If the content is scaled to allow 8 to 24 players smaller FCs can recruit the right people and run things their way and large hardcore FCs can do that same.

 

Sorry People Keep defending large raids when all the evidence is against large raids as much as people want to tout that they are THE BEST.  They are not, they are a management nightmare that few players today want to deal with.  I know I use to run  a 40 man guild and was a raid leader, I will never do that again. 

Lord of the Rings Online recently announced they were no longer supporting group content.

 

Not just raid content, GROUP CONTENT.

 

Let's not use Lord of the Rings Online as a good example of MMO design trends ever again, okay? 

The point is every MMO that wanted to say HEY WE HAVE LARGER RAID CONTENT as Rift, Lotro and EQ did has there cut the size of the raid groups down like LOTRO and EQ did and LOTRO cut everything group out.  Or like Rift End game is 5 man instances because few players even touch the raids because there is little interest in the 10 mans because they do not drop the gear like the 20 mans do.  Again I think Scaling 8 to 24 people would work well because its extremely flexible.  Hell cause WoW is now doing Flex raids I have several of my friends want to go back there even though they do not want anything to do with WoW, because if they are not able to make a raid a week or 2 the raid can still function on some level.  The core problem with set raid numbers is you must have a bench.  It does not matter if its 8, 10, 16, 20, 24, 25, or 40 because how ever many people that are on that night you can take unless you have 25 on for a 24 max raid.  

The answer is not to do away with or minimize grouping in an MMORPG.

 

That is a terrrrrrrible idea, and I really don't see that EVER happening in a Final Fantasy Online game.  Not ever, even in thirty years.  The reason Turbine is no longer developing group content is because their game sucks, no one is playing it, and they don't want to put the effort into make good content suitable for groups anymore.

 

THEY GAVE UP.

 

Just like the trends towards F2P, people make bad games and then blame players for not "wanting X" even though "X" (grouping, raiding) are staples of the MMO community and no game without them has ever replicated the success or feeling grouping brings in an ONLINE RPG game.

 

LOTRO and RIFT are declining in quality rapidly, that is why people no longer do group content in them.  Plus they have total trash F2P communities with people who rotate MMO's every other week, so of course they aren't going to join communities to be able to do large scale group content.  They aren't MMO's hardly even anymore, and the people who play them have nothign in common with the MMO communities of the golden age of MMOs.  The whole scene reeks and I want FFXIV to have NOTHING to do with that crap.

http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan

  danwest58

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 557

7/03/13 9:09:45 PM#53
Originally posted by Murugan
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by Murugan
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by Xatsh
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by Xatsh

I say to the casuals who cannot join a guild (which makes no sense) or team up to do  24man (makes even less sense) or dedicate more then 50mins at a time (why are you playing a mmo)... just do not do that content it is not made for you and it should be accepted. Play the loads of other content instead and leave those who enjoy making a large guilds and allow  those who enjoy large groups to be able to continue enjoying the game.

You can say that all you want however here is the problem.  People like me and many of my friends have already done the large raids.  At the end of the day we either raid in our 10 to 16 man group or we dont raid at all.  If we dont raid at all whats the point of a subscription.  You can Blame acasuals all you want for not wanting to join a large guild.  Sorry I am not a number to stand in line and wait for a raid spot.  Not going to ever happen the day I need to wait because the only way I can raid is join a large raiding guild is the day I am done with the game.  People can say all they want about it, FACTS ARE people no longer want the large group drama that comes with 20+ man raids.  You cannot tell me there is no drama in large guilds I been there for long enough I am done with them guilds.  I will raid with my group of friends or not at all.  I will meet new friends on the way however its not fast enough to build a raiding guild on.  You guys can complain all you want about dumbing down the content because it requires fewer numbers however fact is smaller groups more people go.  760 Guilds raided content on Stormrage so far, thats more guilds that ever raided 40 or 20 or even 25 man content in WoW.  More choices for people to get into their groups they want and see the content they want without the BS Drama.

Now I get the opposite effect as you. When you do 8 man content you have loads of people sitting out. Was the main issue running my guild had with XIV all the way until shutdown for ARR. You would end up having 19-21 people on at once causing 3-7 people to sit out of the group every night. Try logging in for Guild Events and be told yea filled up we will rep you in a few runs (1hr usually). Bring in alliance content and that 21 people can all just walk into it. 1 group no waiting doing things as a whole guild.

The large alliance content actually easily allow the group to participate without waiting. And there are millions of people who still want large group  content, just as there is ton of people who hate WoW and tons of people who hate action combat.  People like different things in a mmo. Why I stated there needs to be content for everyone. Casuals should not get everything. There is absolutly no reason to not have both low and high man content in a mmo.

No there are not Millions of players that want Large group content.  LOTRO was 24 man raids could not successed with large raids cut down to 12 man raids.  EQ2 Same thing from 24 down to 12.  WOW the best raiding server has 2% of all raiding guilds on that server raids 25 man content.  RIFT only a half a dozen raiding guilds on each server raid 20 man raids?  Large raids are dead as many people that want to say otherwise there are 0 games that main focus is on large raids because they do not work.  Hell Even Terra started at 20 man and had to switch to 10 man raids because no one was raiding.  

Now IF FFXIV scales raids from 8 to 24 people you almost never have to worry about a bench unless you want 24 people all the time.  If the content is scaled to allow 8 to 24 players smaller FCs can recruit the right people and run things their way and large hardcore FCs can do that same.

 

Sorry People Keep defending large raids when all the evidence is against large raids as much as people want to tout that they are THE BEST.  They are not, they are a management nightmare that few players today want to deal with.  I know I use to run  a 40 man guild and was a raid leader, I will never do that again. 

Lord of the Rings Online recently announced they were no longer supporting group content.

 

Not just raid content, GROUP CONTENT.

 

Let's not use Lord of the Rings Online as a good example of MMO design trends ever again, okay? 

The point is every MMO that wanted to say HEY WE HAVE LARGER RAID CONTENT as Rift, Lotro and EQ did has there cut the size of the raid groups down like LOTRO and EQ did and LOTRO cut everything group out.  Or like Rift End game is 5 man instances because few players even touch the raids because there is little interest in the 10 mans because they do not drop the gear like the 20 mans do.  Again I think Scaling 8 to 24 people would work well because its extremely flexible.  Hell cause WoW is now doing Flex raids I have several of my friends want to go back there even though they do not want anything to do with WoW, because if they are not able to make a raid a week or 2 the raid can still function on some level.  The core problem with set raid numbers is you must have a bench.  It does not matter if its 8, 10, 16, 20, 24, 25, or 40 because how ever many people that are on that night you can take unless you have 25 on for a 24 max raid.  

The answer is not to do away with or minimize grouping in an MMORPG.

 

That is a terrrrrrrible idea, and I really don't see that EVER happening in a Final Fantasy Online game.  Not ever, even in thirty years.  The reason Turbine is no longer developing group content is because their game sucks, no one is playing it, and they don't want to put the effort into make good content suitable for groups anymore.

 

THEY GAVE UP.

 

Just like the trends towards F2P, people make bad games and then blame players for not "wanting X" even though "X" (grouping, raiding) are staples of the MMO community and no game without them has ever replicated the success or feeling grouping brings in an ONLINE RPG game.

 

LOTRO and RIFT are declining in quality rapidly, that is why people no longer do group content in them.  Plus they have total trash F2P communities with people who rotate MMO's every other week, so of course they aren't going to join communities to be able to do large scale group content.  They aren't MMO's hardly even anymore, and the people who play them have nothign in common with the MMO communities of the golden age of MMOs.  The whole scene reeks and I want FFXIV to have NOTHING to do with that crap.

I would agree not to minimize grouping outside of trying to get large scale groups.  The problem is its finding the people and managing people for large scale events.  Thats what Rift ignored and wanted to push 20 man raids by making the only way to get some raid gear was in 20 man raids.  Unless you were apart of the few raiding guilds on each server you were not getting a 20 man raiding guild together.  

  Murugan

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/08
Posts: 1567

7/03/13 9:11:36 PM#54
I think that just shows a pathetic lack of social skills on that community's part.

http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan

  danwest58

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 557

7/03/13 9:20:52 PM#55
Originally posted by Murugan
I think that just shows a pathetic lack of social skills on that community's part.

No its not.  Its the fact that the majority of players no longer play games on set schedules.  It is not changing as much as people want to force it to change.  If you need 20 people on for a raid you have to over-recruit and have at least 10 people on the bench.  I can tell you people do not will not sit on a bench and wait for a spot period.  So having a bench often times are undergeared players that do not push the effort into being able to raid, or players that you dont want to raid with because they cannot perform.  Its not a community thing as much as it is few people willing to put up with the requirements to raid when it comes to larger groups.  

  Murugan

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/08
Posts: 1567

7/03/13 9:29:28 PM#56
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by Murugan
I think that just shows a pathetic lack of social skills on that community's part.

No its not.  Its the fact that the majority of players no longer play games on set schedules.  It is not changing as much as people want to force it to change.  If you need 20 people on for a raid you have to over-recruit and have at least 10 people on the bench.  I can tell you people do not will not sit on a bench and wait for a spot period.  So having a bench often times are undergeared players that do not push the effort into being able to raid, or players that you dont want to raid with because they cannot perform.  Its not a community thing as much as it is few people willing to put up with the requirements to raid when it comes to larger groups.  

That's a slippery slope to use as an excuse to axe complete swaths of content.

 

Plenty of people like raiding.  Maybe you like grouping with 8 people, but you don't think people will use the EXACT same excuse to push for them to remove content you enjoy?

 

The only people who are safe from that argument are loners who don't play with anyone at all, and frankly this is not the MMO for them.

 

Also you do not need to raid at a set schedule, you do not need to be at the bleeding edge of progression, that is not necessary to enjoy an MMO.  THAT is what most people choose to do, and now people are trying to twist that to support an anti-raid and anti-grouping campaign.

 

I'm sorry but this is not your game, I pay for it just the same as you and I want raiding as do many other people.  You can say we aren't enough, but this game is having raid.  Hope it fails if you want so it proves your point or something I guess.  I think it is a sad thing when people lose content they enjoy even if I don't play it, but I realize some people are so selfish that if they can't have it no one can.

 

OJ Simpson completely understands your point.

http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan

  Sefiruso

Novice Member

Joined: 7/01/13
Posts: 23

 
OP  7/04/13 4:15:51 AM#57
Originally posted by Murugan
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by Murugan
I think that just shows a pathetic lack of social skills on that community's part.

No its not.  Its the fact that the majority of players no longer play games on set schedules.  It is not changing as much as people want to force it to change.  If you need 20 people on for a raid you have to over-recruit and have at least 10 people on the bench.  I can tell you people do not will not sit on a bench and wait for a spot period.  So having a bench often times are undergeared players that do not push the effort into being able to raid, or players that you dont want to raid with because they cannot perform.  Its not a community thing as much as it is few people willing to put up with the requirements to raid when it comes to larger groups.  

That's a slippery slope to use as an excuse to axe complete swaths of content.

 

Plenty of people like raiding.  Maybe you like grouping with 8 people, but you don't think people will use the EXACT same excuse to push for them to remove content you enjoy?

 

The only people who are safe from that argument are loners who don't play with anyone at all, and frankly this is not the MMO for them.

 

Also you do not need to raid at a set schedule, you do not need to be at the bleeding edge of progression, that is not necessary to enjoy an MMO.  THAT is what most people choose to do, and now people are trying to twist that to support an anti-raid and anti-grouping campaign.

 

I'm sorry but this is not your game, I pay for it just the same as you and I want raiding as do many other people.  You can say we aren't enough, but this game is having raid.  Hope it fails if you want so it proves your point or something I guess.  I think it is a sad thing when people lose content they enjoy even if I don't play it, but I realize some people are so selfish that if they can't have it no one can.

 

OJ Simpson completely understands your point.

 

 

Might not have seemed it this post but i agree with Murugan. You need the 24 man raids having just 8 man content would be to be blunt pretty shit. 

 

Murugan has put my worries to one side if SE do at a point scale down content when the hardcore or even casual raiders are done with the end game content. he's got it spot on casual players won't max level or be ready for that content for a good while after the guys who go after the end game content like mad dogs ;) 

 

If you get the balance of hardcore 24 man content that then scales down in the right time frame say 6 months maximum into dropping down to the rest of the community who for whatever reason can't raid or find a guild capable of clearing the 24 man version. There seems to be a lot of content for the casual player more than enough for SE to cater some high level difficult content without having to bash those who's don't play to that level.

 

My main reason for this post was simply because my last MMO was WOW back when it was 40 man raids and a few of the 25 man stuff. This was just horrendous especially the 40 man content. The fact WOW never scaled down this content not while i was there anyway i dabbled in Karazhan and that was fun at 15 man. All WOW had at end game was those instances like MC and BWL getting tier one gear for 6 months then teir two and so on. 

 

I'm more than happy that ARR will not be like that come end game and for that I'm chuffed let the hardcore guys have there content have they're time beating complex difficult encounters and when SE feel that content has been finished by the hardcore players and they donwscale it I'll be more than happy :)

 

  Benedikt

Tipster

Joined: 12/12/04
Posts: 1324

We live for The One, we die for The One.

7/04/13 4:58:02 AM#58

i have even more extreme view of the issue tied with this: i think the moment mmorpgs did put cap on group size is the moment it all started to go to hell. because it means there either will always be people "on the bench" or the people will have to play not because they want/like to, but to not let down others who need them to fill the group.

 

sure you can say that if you dont cap group size, it will all be just zerg, but  whats wrong with that, especially in primary PVE game? Why would you care how other do content? you still have a complete control over the size of your group.

 

even more - group cap is a reason classes now a day has to be "balanced" (read: mostly the same), because if you have group size cap, you dont have "spot to loose" by taking into the group "weaker" class. its the reason why in todays mmorpgs there is usually only 1 or 2 "viable" builds for each class and anyone who wants to play differently will be called "noob".

3 Pages « 1 2 3 Search