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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Design element that has hurt recent MMORPGs

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57 posts found
  Notimeforbs

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/13
Posts: 297

7/01/13 10:59:19 PM#21
Originally posted by LogicLester

Which would you rather read:

 

A book which goes into great detail on the characters and the environment they live in, but very little story.

 

or

 

A book with a great story but not much detail on the characters and their environment.

 

Because of book design limitations, the book can only be a certain number of pages long, with text of a certain size.  And those limits prevent the writer(s) from doing both well in a single book.

 

 

I think we all know the majority will choose the latter, and that's why "sandbox" is still a tiny niche.  It just can't draw people in without a decent story, and it can't keep people without a definite sense of progression.  Traditional "sandbox" has neither, so to be a successful MMO they really can't focus too heavily on those "sandbox" elements.

But in that analogy, you're saying that a book with a great story with a sufficient amount of detail does not exist.  And... that's simply not true.  The mark of a great writer is someone who can tell a story without failing to express everything the story needs in order to sustain itself.

Films are the same way.  On average, a full length major motion picture with better than average funding is expected to last up to 125 minutes - an average film should only run approximately 90-100 minutes.  An exceptionally high budget film is allowed a run-time of approximately 150-180 minutes.  That means the writer has to write a script that does not exceed the budgeted length of time.  So he writes.  Each page is an industry standard of one minute's worth of film, give or take depending on what is taking place.  For instance, the 10 minute scene of Neo and Morpheus fighting in the first Matrix could have been easily summed up within the script as, "They fight."  Regardless of any of this, however, we have all witnessed extremely moving films that gave us everything we expect from a superbly crafted film.

MMO's simply are not doing this.

  neurojame

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/10
Posts: 24

7/01/13 11:17:37 PM#22
Originally posted by LogicLester

Which would you rather read:

 

A book which goes into great detail on the characters and the environment they live in, but very little story.

 

or

 

A book with a great story but not much detail on the characters and their environment.

 

Because of book design limitations, the book can only be a certain number of pages long, with text of a certain size.  And those limits prevent the writer(s) from doing both well in a single book.

 

 

I think we all know the majority will choose the latter, and that's why "sandbox" is still a tiny niche.  It just can't draw people in without a decent story, and it can't keep people without a definite sense of progression.  Traditional "sandbox" has neither, so to be a successful MMO they really can't focus too heavily on those "sandbox" elements.

 I'd rather have a "Choose your own adventure" book...

Remember those from when we were young? They were popular because they were non-linear.

Ultimately we are novelty seeking creatures. Things that are different and unexpected are seen as fun because they are novel to us. The reason that MMOs are seen as stagnate is because their elements resemble other games we've played, are not novel and therefore are not seen as fun.

Increase the non-linearity, the randomness and the player generated content (with some restraints). This will increase the novelty and fun.

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

7/02/13 12:02:17 AM#23
Originally posted by zevni78

A "line" destroys immersion if your supposed to be exploring an open world, and it ruins re-playability with alts. I want freedom, spontainious variation, hard to get that in a linear context. Portal isnt an mmo, lines always feel too single player, that is why more and more are failing to complete PVE lvling in games like WoW, even if it's open world, it might as well not be.

There is no "supposed to be" in design, apart from the fact that games are going to be whatever players want, through the natural selection process of which games are successful vs. failures.

Trying to convince players that Portal wasn't immersive is another thing you're going to have a hard time of doing.  Despite being linear, it was plenty immersive.  In some ways it was more immersive due to its linearity (not just because it fit with the narrative, but because it allowed the developers to efficiently focus their effort.  Letting players roam to more places would spread the dev hours over much more area, which dilutes the quality of any given area.)

Spontaneous variation has more to do with game rules than linearity or being an open world.  If the abilities in a game are dynamic, like LoL's, then spontaneous variation is going to happen on its own.  In older MMORPGs, the spontaneous behavior was mostly just randomly deciding to stop endlessly farming mobs at one location and moving on to another -- not exactly the most compelling example of enabling spontaneous behavior, is it?

I'm not sure why you would think more players fail to complete WOW leveling than other games.  The game had superior gameplay variety (quests) and better gameplay (combat design) compared with earlier MMORPGs.  This meant higher retention.  Which means that even if you completely factor out WOW's shorter leveling curve and just measure "How many players reached the 30 hour mark?" you would find more players staying with WOW than those earlier games.  The factors which create that superior gameplay which create that superior player retention are some of the biggest factors behind WOW's overall success, actually.

  Hrimnir

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/24/10
Posts: 1090

7/02/13 12:20:28 AM#24
Originally posted by Axehilt

All that matters to players is gameplay quality.

  • Interesting decisions are a big part of that.
  • Games can have interesting decisions while being completely linear -- unless you want to try to convince most players they didn't have fun playing Portal.
So fixating on lines is pretty irrelevant.
 
In most cases, depending on the "line", a line doesn't reduct the amount of interesting decisions a game offers.  When it does, sure it's bad.  When it doesn't, no harm has been done.  

I really hate when people use the word "Fun"  Its honestly become a cheap cop-out argument.

Fun is extremely relative.  I remember watching a youtube video from a guy named Travis Haley, who was a former force recon marine, and he was talking about how he was watching his kids playing in the backyard with all of their expensive/cool toys and complaining about being bored, and how it reminded him of some of the crap he had seen overseas, and he brought up an example of some kids in the ukraine who had found some wire that they rolled into a ball and were running around with sticks wacking this wire "ball" around in the streets and they were having a blast.

This idea that "fun" should come first in a game is ridiculous because every single person's perception of what is fun differs greatly.  As you pointed out, many people have fun in a game like Portal.  But you incorrectly try to portray that the fun happened in a linear game, when the fun came from figuring out the puzzles.  Whether the puzzles were in a linear game or not is of no consequence, the point was to solve the puzzles.

The OP's point is that what most people find (and *found*, in the past) fun in MMOs was the sandbox elements in a PVE setting.  His point is valid in that a lot of what has caused people to become disenfranchised from MMO's is because companies like blizzard and subsequent wow clones had somehow figured out a way to turn what was by nature a non linear style of game, into a linear style of game.

"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

- Friedrich Nietzsche

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

7/02/13 1:55:55 AM#25
Originally posted by Hrimnir

I really hate when people use the word "Fun"  Its honestly become a cheap cop-out argument.

Fun is extremely relative.  I remember watching a youtube video from a guy named Travis Haley, who was a former force recon marine, and he was talking about how he was watching his kids playing in the backyard with all of their expensive/cool toys and complaining about being bored, and how it reminded him of some of the crap he had seen overseas, and he brought up an example of some kids in the ukraine who had found some wire that they rolled into a ball and were running around with sticks wacking this wire "ball" around in the streets and they were having a blast.

This idea that "fun" should come first in a game is ridiculous because every single person's perception of what is fun differs greatly.  As you pointed out, many people have fun in a game like Portal.  But you incorrectly try to portray that the fun happened in a linear game, when the fun came from figuring out the puzzles.  Whether the puzzles were in a linear game or not is of no consequence, the point was to solve the puzzles.

The OP's point is that what most people find (and *found*, in the past) fun in MMOs was the sandbox elements in a PVE setting.  His point is valid in that a lot of what has caused people to become disenfranchised from MMO's is because companies like blizzard and subsequent wow clones had somehow figured out a way to turn what was by nature a non linear style of game, into a linear style of game.

Whether an individual has fun is subjective. Many individuals having fun with Portal is objective.  It's by no means a cop-out to discuss these straightforward facts.  It would be a cop-out if we avoided the conversation entirely just because fun is subjective on an individual basis.

Hopefully that's not what you're implying, but by calling it a cop-out it seems to be what you're implying.

Fun is relative to our environment.  The kids enjoying a wire ball is like how McDonalds is a gourmet meal to a starving family.  It's human nature to want to improve our situation.  That doesn't mean that people don't have preferences which are safe to talk about in an objective, absolute way.  If starving, McDonalds, and a meal at a fancy restaurant all cost the same, we could safely say everyone would choose the fancy restaurant.

You're right that the fun in Portal comes not from the linearity but from the puzzles.  That's the point I was making: linearity has little bearing on whether the game is actually fun to people!

I don't dispute that some people had fun with the sandbox elements of older MMORPGs.  I'm simply pointing out that many more people have had fun with the more constrained modern MMORPG designs (which can only be considered "linear" through a dazzling display of hyperbole.)

  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2393

World > Quest Progression

7/02/13 2:12:30 AM#26
Originally posted by Axehilt
/snip

I don't dispute that some people had fun with the sandbox elements of older MMORPGs.  I'm simply pointing out that many more people have had fun with the more constrained modern MMORPG designs (which can only be considered "linear" through a dazzling display of hyperbole.)

 

That's what I feel is changing and what the OP also stated.  WoW has been around nine years now and though the "WoW model" did not start in 2004 the years after have come closer and closer to design concentration.  Now we have a sea of themepark F2P conversions, WoW losing 12% of their sub base in one year and the other major MMO EvE is a sandbox.

 

It may be that people are looking for something different.

 

While that doesn't nessesarily mean a sandbox (or sand-ish, etc.) having a linear quest system be the base of progression certainly is a commonality and a sandbox-ish game changes that.  I get that enjoyable gameplay is important but where is the line between enjoyment and getting bored doing the same thing? The gameplay doesn't change but my enjoyment of it does.

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3067

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

7/02/13 4:00:26 AM#27


Originally posted by Stormsone

Originally posted by AlBQuirky

Originally posted by zevni78

Originally posted by Axehilt
All that matters to players is gameplay quality.
  • Interesting decisions are a big part of that.
  • Games can have interesting decisions while being completely linear -- unless you want to try to convince most players they didn't have fun playing Portal.

So fixating on lines is pretty irrelevant.

In most cases, depending on the "line", a line doesn't reduct the amount of interesting decisions a game offers.  When it does, sure it's bad.  When it doesn't, no harm has been done.



A "line" destroys immersion if your supposed to be exploring an open world, and it ruins re-playability with alts. I want freedom, spontainious variation, hard to get that in a linear context. Portal isnt an mmo, lines always feel too single player, that is why more and more are failing to complete PVE lvling in games like WoW, even if it's open world, it might as well not be.

But that is "inefficient." Lines make the game much more efficient.

Yes lines are efficient but as everyone should know circles are stronger. If getting to point a from point b is all you care about.... then carry on and keep supporting the same old same old. I for one would like to take a step in a new direction, I do have my doubts about the upcoming mmo's but I hope they are wrong and turn out to be a step in the right direction.

My apologies. I should have indicated my sarcasm better. My response was a sarcastic remark to Axehilt's. I get the feeling from some of his posts that anything that lessens a game's efficiency is a "bad thing."

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  LogicLester

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/13
Posts: 67

7/02/13 4:06:37 AM#28
Originally posted by ReallyNow10

 

The Sandbox games are eliciting HUGE interest, so I think the "niche" comment is off-base.  And most (95%+) of the linear storyline MMO's have been splashing and crashing for 10 years, no matter how polished, how uber the graphics, or how epic the IP.  I mean, really, how can something based upon the LOTR IP and following the three LOTR movies be FTP within two years?  C'mon.  (Hint:  The "line" killed it.)

 

HUGE is a bit of an exaggeration, but I think you're also reading too much into the marketing hype.  It's highly unlikely EQN will be the new UO or SWG, it's much more likely to be yet another WoW clone, with a little "sandbox" tossed in.  Will it be great?  Heck if I know.  Will it be the new Mecca for sandboxers?  I seriously doubt it, but who knows.

 

As far as lotro goes, it was a crap game, like pretty much all MMOs since wow have been.  I don't doubt it has fans out there, like all MMOs tend to, but there is simply no debating that, at launch, it was crap.  And the customers in this genre by and large don't give second chances, there's too many competitors out there for them to try instead.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2724

There... are... four... lights!

7/02/13 4:08:01 AM#29
The worst design element of almost all recent MMORPGs is that they all tried to copy WoW (and failed).

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  BrucyBonus

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/30/13
Posts: 224

7/02/13 4:24:10 AM#30

Personally I think that the worst design change is the removal of large open worlds to explore.  Now that quests are generally on rails, so are the worlds they are played out in.  More often than not you are hemmed in by invisible walls or the environment itself with strangle rectangular mountain ranges/ rivers/ structures.  

There are no more hidden areas of interest; you can no longer stumble upon an obscure out-of-the-way quest, it either doesn't exist or you are lead to it by the nose.  The entire map is revealed to you from the outset and there are fast travel points everywhere.  There is no longer any sense of exploration.  

There was an article about this but the map has merely become a tool to reach cap in the fastest possible time.  After 1-3 months most of the map is entirely redundant as the population play the end-game in a few discrete hub-towns/ raids/ battlegrounds.    It is no longer about the journey and only about the destination.   

Personally I think that developers need to realize that traditional levels are an outmoded concept.  Removing traditional levels will enable the entire map to be used by everyone all the time; and other goals can be offered such as; small incremental improvements, rare skills, aesthetic items, exploration, titles, rare mounts/ pets etc, construction, economy, politics etc etc.  

 

  LogicLester

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/13
Posts: 67

7/02/13 4:30:57 AM#31
Originally posted by neurojame

 I'd rather have a "Choose your own adventure" book...

Remember those from when we were young? They were popular because they were non-linear.

Ultimately we are novelty seeking creatures. Things that are different and unexpected are seen as fun because they are novel to us. The reason that MMOs are seen as stagnate is because their elements resemble other games we've played, are not novel and therefore are not seen as fun.

Increase the non-linearity, the randomness and the player generated content (with some restraints). This will increase the novelty and fun.

 

I remember those, and I enjoyed them.  Especially that Gamma World one, and some fantasy one that even had leveling and loot, with a character sheet in the back of the book!  But they weren't great stories, and they weren't bestsellers.

 

I doubt they even could have been great stories if they'd been written by better authors.  Their structure is too formulaic and I have to imagine you give up something to include those branching plots.  Whether creativity would suffer, time limitations would be hit, or the story would be overly long, I think the quality would be diminished by writing in that style.  And I believe it's similar for MMOs.

  simmihi

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/11/10
Posts: 514

7/02/13 4:34:30 AM#32

1. Lack of choice. To be "the best" you have to follow the exact pattern as everyone else. If you are not following it, you will end up severely gimped. If you are not "the best", no one will want you. You will be reminded by others that you need to "change" in order to be "the best" = a copy of everyone else. The "endgame" is designed to be beaten only if you are "the best", only if you "pull your numbers". The most common subject at endgame is numbers, what numbers everyone pulled.

 

2. Balance. The most idiotic thing. All DPS should be able to pull the same numbers with equal equipment. Flavor-less classes. Same numbers = there are no "special" classes, able to mass CC, able to mezz etc. Considering the "equal numbers" needed, such an improvement to only some classes would be considered "OP".

 

 

  Quirhid

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5511

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

7/02/13 4:41:44 AM#33
Internet prophets are a dime a dozen.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

7/02/13 6:30:11 AM#34
Originally posted by Aelious 

That's what I feel is changing and what the OP also stated.  WoW has been around nine years now and though the "WoW model" did not start in 2004 the years after have come closer and closer to design concentration.  Now we have a sea of themepark F2P conversions, WoW losing 12% of their sub base in one year and the other major MMO EvE is a sandbox. 

It may be that people are looking for something different. 

While that doesn't nessesarily mean a sandbox (or sand-ish, etc.) having a linear quest system be the base of progression certainly is a commonality and a sandbox-ish game changes that.  I get that enjoyable gameplay is important but where is the line between enjoyment and getting bored doing the same thing? The gameplay doesn't change but my enjoyment of it does.

Players are looking for something different, but not the way the OP is implying.

Sonic the Hedgehog is a relatively linear game.  It was only one in a long line of content-driven games with relatively narrow focuses like Mario, Zelda, Halo, and Bioshock.  (These types of games have been around since the dawn of gaming.)

A while after Sonic released, its popularity was on the decline.  Gamer A might accurately state that people are simply done with Sonic: that particular gameplay pattern is now old and tired.   Gamer B might recklessly declare it to be the downfall of content-driven gaming entirely.

History would prove that Gamer B was completely off-base, with the release of Wolfenstein 3D, Secret of Mana, Doom 2, etc.

Basically it's accurate to say gamers want new gameplay patterns, but complete nonsense to claim that the entire framework is somehow broken.  

  ReallyNow10

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/11/10
Posts: 1625

Don't give us stories. Give us worlds and we will make our own stories.

 
OP  7/02/13 10:05:45 AM#35
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Aelious 

That's what I feel is changing and what the OP also stated.  WoW has been around nine years now and though the "WoW model" did not start in 2004 the years after have come closer and closer to design concentration.  Now we have a sea of themepark F2P conversions, WoW losing 12% of their sub base in one year and the other major MMO EvE is a sandbox. 

It may be that people are looking for something different. 

While that doesn't nessesarily mean a sandbox (or sand-ish, etc.) having a linear quest system be the base of progression certainly is a commonality and a sandbox-ish game changes that.  I get that enjoyable gameplay is important but where is the line between enjoyment and getting bored doing the same thing? The gameplay doesn't change but my enjoyment of it does.

Players are looking for something different, but not the way the OP is implying.

Sonic the Hedgehog is a relatively linear game.  It was only one in a long line of content-driven games with relatively narrow focuses like Mario, Zelda, Halo, and Bioshock.  (These types of games have been around since the dawn of gaming.)

A while after Sonic released, its popularity was on the decline.  Gamer A might accurately state that people are simply done with Sonic: that particular gameplay pattern is now old and tired.   Gamer B might recklessly declare it to be the downfall of content-driven gaming entirely.

History would prove that Gamer B was completely off-base, with the release of Wolfenstein 3D, Secret of Mana, Doom 2, etc.

Basically it's accurate to say gamers want new gameplay patterns, but complete nonsense to claim that the entire framework is somehow broken.  

You know, people like all sorts of food, and as long as they enjoy what they like, I suppose the type of food does not much matter.  However, a forum about pizza is a forum about pizza, and to bring up ice cream and cheeseburgers in such a forum, making the claim that people like different types of food, is a bit nonsensical and off-track.

The same goes for MMORPG's.  This is a MMORPG forum.  So stuff like Portal, Mario, Halo, Bioshock, while all great games, are NOT MMORPG's.

And, as far as it being "nonsense to claim that the entire framework (of MMO's) is broken", I think previous points about WOW losing subs and WOW clones almost immediately declining and going FTP speaks for itself.  The framework is broken.

And the framework is being rebuilt, starting with EQ Next.  YAY!!!!

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19496

7/02/13 11:09:02 AM#36
Originally posted by ReallyNow10

The same goes for MMORPG's.  This is a MMORPG forum.  So stuff like Portal, Mario, Halo, Bioshock, while all great games, are NOT MMORPG's.

Yet this forum put non-MMOs like D3, WoT, LoL .. (a long list) in the same list as MMOs. MMO is just a label. There is no reason not to discuss games that is close enough in gameplay style.

D3 instance dungeon is very little difference than a MMO instance dungeon. You push a LFD button, and you are there with a few others killing stuff.

WoT instance battle is very little difference (in style, not combat mechanics) than a MMo arena/battleground.

In fact, isn't the normal rant here that MMOs are moving towards these games? If so, why restrict the discussion to traditional MMOs and ignore the new progress?

  ReallyNow10

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/11/10
Posts: 1625

Don't give us stories. Give us worlds and we will make our own stories.

 
OP  7/02/13 11:13:21 AM#37
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by ReallyNow10

The same goes for MMORPG's.  This is a MMORPG forum.  So stuff like Portal, Mario, Halo, Bioshock, while all great games, are NOT MMORPG's.

Yet this forum put non-MMOs like D3, WoT, LoL .. (a long list) in the same list as MMOs. MMO is just a label. There is no reason not to discuss games that is close enough in gameplay style.

D3 instance dungeon is very little difference than a MMO instance dungeon. You push a LFD button, and you are there with a few others killing stuff.

WoT instance battle is very little difference (in style, not combat mechanics) than a MMo arena/battleground.

In fact, isn't the normal rant here that MMOs are moving towards these games? If so, why restrict the discussion to traditional MMOs and ignore the new progress?

Pizza and hamburgers are not the same thing.  Single player games and MMO's are not the same thing.  All are tasty.

Now, while this forum can sometimes be all over the place, this thread is about MMORPG's.

I get that you and a few others on this board like games that are fast, free, fun, guided, and make you feel like your characters is "The One" or accomplishing something. I truly get that.  And, there are plenty of games out there to suit just that niche, mostly single player or single player-like.  Plenty of them.  But hardly "progress."

But, this is an MMORPG thread on a predominately MMORPG forum (supposedly).

 

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6673

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

7/02/13 11:20:11 AM#38

This has been happening since rpg's began and imo it will NEVER change.Sandbox is a misused label,there has never been a sandbox game and there never will.You could have some sandbox elements such as NW and it's quest creator,to be honest all games have some form of sandbox it them,such as the Auction house is all player run but you will never have a complete Sandbox game,otherwise it wouldn't be a game at all ,it would be a set of tools to allow a game to evolve from them.

Even still a set tools is not for everyone,heck some people probably couldn't use them anyhow.IMo you always need something to strive for,games have just been shallow in content and how you do it.jump map,seriously,that takes no effort,dungeons,well a bit more effort nothing on the creative side is done there.

Even the simplest idea which every game has "Quests" are done with no creativity,just pure simple laziness in design.I can look at FFXI and they tied quests into rank and fame ,yes many games do it differently via invidule factions but at least either way shows some added effort by the developer.

Then we have the other simple idea which is combat/killing.Most games just give you mobs to kill and nothing more,how shallow is that?However better quality devs tie systems into them like FFXI and Conquest points ,or many of their other sanctions,some games again tie faction into who you kill raising it some and lowering your faction in others.Some games again FFXI created a whole player>player system known as Renkai and then preceded to add magic bursts and also elemental propereties for resistances and added damage.

I can take it one step further,yep you guessed it FFXI again,they added a system that gave bonus xp for stringing kills together in a certain amount of time.All those little things separate AAA from AA game design.I could go on and on with MANY more ideas like EQ2 housing ect ect,but i think you get the point.The LINEAR does not have to be totally removed,the game design just needs to better from developers.I can guarantee this,going f2p is NOT going to encourage more effort from developers,only less effort more corner cutting.

 

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  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19496

7/02/13 11:29:14 AM#39
Originally posted by ReallyNow10

I get that you and a few others on this board like games that are fast, free, fun, guided, and make you feel like your characters is "The One" or accomplishing something. I truly get that.  And, there are plenty of games out there to suit just that niche, mostly single player or single player-like.  Plenty of them.  But hardly "progress."

But, this is an MMORPG thread on a predominately MMORPG forum (supposedly).

 

You are describing modern MMOs.

And secondly, there is plenty of debate of the definition of MMO. There are those who even claim Destiny may be one. If there is debate, why should we just include those games in the discussion? It is not like the playstyle is very different from MMOs anyway.

Tell me, do you really think that it is very different clicking a button and go into a dungeon with 3 other players in D3, and click a button and go into a dungeon with 4 others in WOW?

 

  Rydeson

Elite Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 3272

7/02/13 11:49:55 AM#40
     Did we get side tracked?  I thought the OP was about a linear straight line element, and how it hurt the MMORPG genre, was it not?  And Yes, OP,  I think ----------------------------------> has hurt us greatly.. Console games like Dragon Age and KoTOR can be fun for those that like playing thru a linear storyline.. However, I hate the feeling of playing an online MMORPG as if I'm some sort of corralled cattle waiting for slaughter.. I prefer a gaming experience where I dictate my own path, bio and reputation, not one that is predetermined..
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