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Neverwinter

Neverwinter 

General Discussion  » Business Model Will Kill This game

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64 posts found
  Tropos1

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/29/11
Posts: 3

6/30/13 7:37:12 AM#41
Originally posted by Chrisbox
I already fear for this game...the gameplay so far as been quite enjoyable, but it follows the same exact model every other Perfect world game did and died off.  Its basically rack in f2p cash with a really badly priced zen system, then when the community dies use that money to make another game. Rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat.  Should've launched as a subscription game in my opinion, thats where the commitment comes in from not only the players but the developers.  

 

I'm familiar with some of PWE's previous games. And a number of things about Neverwinter's currencies and cash-in tactics are all too familiar. The Zen<->Diamonds system is exactly what they have in the old PWI game. Giving them lots of flexibility in leverage people into requiring Zen, controlling the economy. Making it revolve around the Zen currency. While sucking the economy dry of Diamonds and other in-game earned items whenever they want.

Don't pretend like PWE isn't only in this for the short run. And I feel sorry for the developers that have worked on PWE's games, just to have all their great work and assets squandered by a greedy publisher.

If you step back to considering the economy of MMORPGs of old, for example EverQuest. Any legal way of buying Platinum would have ruined it. It was the strict and absolute INABILITY to gain the currency without work that made it so valuable. But in NWO, you could even do a few surveys for a few hundred Zen and exchange that for more diamonds than most will earn throughout the first 40 levels of a character.

In conclusion, I feel that NWO has a lot of good things, and (had) great potential. But an important aspect of an MMORPG is the economic system, and how the developers motivate anyone to care about it. But PWE has had its way with NWO, and the result is not looking good.
  Golelorn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/23/03
Posts: 1072

6/30/13 9:44:06 AM#42

Agree with the sentiment of most posters. This game is designed to make you spend money in the first month. After that, there is really nothing to do in Neverwinter. The game has no longevity. Too many character advancements require people to spend Zen. 

In the end this game will only consist of people who dropped 300-500 dollars on the game, and new players unfamiliar with the "f2p" model PWI is infamous for.

  User Deleted
6/30/13 11:25:24 PM#43

Only two reasons I haven't tried the game:  PWI and f2p

 

Did the whole F2P thing enough I think.  I hate the cash shop.  No matter what I spend I don't get the full game, I don't like having to pay to remove frustrations they code into the game just so they can sell the remedy in the cash shop, I dislike how I can spend $50 on something then next week they add something better in the cash shop.

In the end I do pay more, but then I always...always regret every dollar ive spent in the game.

 

LOL works well because its not a mmorpg.  What they do is something a game like that should do...keep it free and pay for character and skins.  Its easy to point to another game in a different game  genre aimed at a completely different crowd of people and say its proof that it works for mmorpgs.

Now...granted most mmorpgs are done with little variance, thought, complexity and uniqueness as of late, I do expect more will be F2P as people play one or two months then leave p2p games that recycle stale mechanics.  Why hit people for $50 box and one $15 sub when you can sucker punch them with a $100 founder pack and then $50 for a mount before they get bored and move on?  All the while creating an envy mechanic with the floodgate of free players possibly getting them to pay in $40 before they get bored and move on. 

If developers would go back to making good games people wouldn't mind paying a sub for them.  mmorpgs have turned into quick cash grabs and p2p supports long term growth and long term development...doesn't work well when your plan is to make an overhyped cash grab game.

 

Im just not interested in the casino mechanics anymore.  If the game isn't good enough to be p2p, if the developers are not willing to make a p2p game without a huge following better...then its not worth playing imo.  I play a couple of very low pop p2p games.  Developers are more into the game/passion than driving around a Ferrari and the games reflect that (imo)

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2743

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

6/30/13 11:42:28 PM#44
Originally posted by Golelorn

Agree with the sentiment of most posters. This game is designed to make you spend money in the first month. After that, there is really nothing to do in Neverwinter. The game has no longevity. Too many character advancements require people to spend Zen. 

In the end this game will only consist of people who dropped 300-500 dollars on the game, and new players unfamiliar with the "f2p" model PWI is infamous for.

 I've not spent a red cent on my last 3 level 60's and everything I have earned is through a little bit of time.  There are many avenues for an average player to not spend money, everything can basically be gained through a little more time.

 

What most people here do not like is that someone who spends 2 hours a week can acquire the same as someone who spends 12 hours a day playing, that is the crux of the whole issue.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  LogicLester

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/13
Posts: 67

7/01/13 9:51:53 PM#45
Originally posted by SpottyGekko

Don't fool yourself with the idea that "committed players" make a financially successful MMO.

They don't.

 

The average MMORPG player wants to reach level cap in 4 to 6 weeks max, followed by a few weeks of grinding "endgame". Then they're bored, because they've "beaten the game" and it's off to the next MMO...

 

People are playing MMO's like single-player games. Everyone's there for launch, but 2 months later they're all gone again. They've "finished" the game.

 

So the F2P games try to earn the maximum income in their first 2 months. After that it's maintenance mode until the servers close.

 

I think people need to come to terms with the truth, EVERY company that makes MMOs lately has been shoveling out crap,  Pure, unadulterated crap.  Games that lack features that had been standard in the industry for years, games with more bugs than a locust plague, games developed and run by marketers instead of game designers.  CRAP!

 

Hopefully one day it will stop, hopefully one day someone who actually wants to make a good game will come along and be given the time/budget/talent to do so.  But pretending the crap we have been served lately is because of a pricing model or "content locusts" is a disservice to all of us.

 

They're just plain Bad, either Unfinished, Unsupported, or No-talent games.

  Dkompoze

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/01/06
Posts: 224

7/01/13 10:01:46 PM#46
Originally posted by dinos_21
Originally posted by SpottyGekko

Don't fool yourself with the idea that "committed players" make a financially successful MMO.

They don't.

 

The average MMORPG player wants to reach level cap in 4 to 6 weeks max, followed by a few weeks of grinding "endgame". Then they're bored, because they've "beaten the game" and it's off to the next MMO...

 

People are playing MMO's like single-player games. Everyone's there for launch, but 2 months later they're all gone again. They've "finished" the game.

 

So the F2P games try to earn the maximum income in their first 2 months. After that it's maintenance mode until the servers close.

+1

 

+1 to what??    The fact that he said that 'Committed players" wont make a game financially successful, then proceeded to type a whole paragraph describing exactly why a game needs "committed players"  to become financially successful.------smh

 

WOW - committed players

EVE- committed players

EQ1 an 2 - committed players

go figure

  romello

Novice Member

Joined: 5/21/13
Posts: 34

hallo ~_~

7/01/13 10:07:03 PM#47
i thought game was already dead? did they merge servers yet?

hallo ~_~

  furbans

Elite Member

Joined: 2/10/13
Posts: 927

7/01/13 10:16:26 PM#48
Originally posted by romello
i thought game was already dead? did they merge servers yet?

A single server was always the plan and many press releases they have stated that it will be a single server.  Haven't followed Neverwinter since early "closed betas" but I assume that the whole multiple servers was more of performance issue tweaking so a single server wouldn't overburden the techy stuff and working towards a single server.

As far as the topic at hand is concerned, the cash shop is one of the major deterrence for me... well if I could ever get past the utter crap implementation of D&D mechanics.  As people have coined the phrase "pay to enjoy" which is very apt for Neverwinter.  Was expecting something more along the lines of NWN persistent world stuff than this abomination.  So eh... goodbye forever any hope for a true D&D MMO.

  kiern

Novice Member

Joined: 3/04/04
Posts: 430

7/04/13 9:07:31 PM#49
Originally posted by Chrisbox
I already fear for this game...the gameplay so far as been quite enjoyable, but it follows the same exact model every other Perfect world game did and died off.  Its basically rack in f2p cash with a really badly priced zen system, then when the community dies use that money to make another game. Rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat.  Should've launched as a subscription game in my opinion, thats where the commitment comes in from not only the players but the developers.  

I doubt that is the real goal.  It takes a lot of time and money to develop a new game. It would be far more beneficial to them to adjust the prices and improve the quality of an existing one. 

 

On the other hand, I do fear that their greed may prevent them from seeing that before it is too late. 

  MadDemon64

Elite Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 1082

Why is it that fantasy trolls are vulnerable to fire, but internet trolls thrive on flame wars?

7/05/13 7:36:42 AM#50
Originally posted by kiern
Originally posted by Chrisbox
I already fear for this game...the gameplay so far as been quite enjoyable, but it follows the same exact model every other Perfect world game did and died off.  Its basically rack in f2p cash with a really badly priced zen system, then when the community dies use that money to make another game. Rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat.  Should've launched as a subscription game in my opinion, thats where the commitment comes in from not only the players but the developers.  

I doubt that is the real goal.  It takes a lot of time and money to develop a new game. It would be far more beneficial to them to adjust the prices and improve the quality of an existing one. 

 

On the other hand, I do fear that their greed may prevent them from seeing that before it is too late. 

Well, Allods had the same problems with its cash shop, and they were fixed.

Actually, Allods had worse problems.  The problems Neverwinter has with its cash shop are fairly minor in comparison.

Since when is Tuesday a direction?

  Doogiehowser

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1939

7/05/13 7:41:43 AM#51
Originally posted by romello
i thought game was already dead? did they merge servers yet?

Hard to kill something that is free to download and play.

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell

"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney

  Xav_MMO

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 20

7/05/13 8:00:45 AM#52
Originally posted by LogicLester
 

 I think people need to come to terms with the truth, EVERY company that makes MMOs lately has been shoveling out crap,  Pure, unadulterated crap.  Games that lack features that had been standard in the industry for years, games with more bugs than a locust plague, games developed and run by marketers instead of game designers.  CRAP!

 Hopefully one day it will stop, hopefully one day someone who actually wants to make a good game will come along and be given the time/budget/talent to do so.  But pretending the crap we have been served lately is because of a pricing model or "content locusts" is a disservice to all of us.

 They're just plain Bad, either Unfinished, Unsupported, or No-talent games.

 

This is the way I feel too. Lousy games with missing features, buggy mechanics, and no actual gameplay being run by marketers is the bane of the MMO industry.

Developers want Players. Marketers want Revenue Sources.

  sirphobos

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/10/11
Posts: 603

7/05/13 8:10:31 AM#53
I'm pretty sure the fact that Neverwinter simply isn't a very good game will be this game's downfall.  I had fun leveling up my character, but stopped playing within a week of hitting max level because the max level content was simply awful in my opinion, and I had no desire to level up a second character as I would be doing the exact same thing while leveling.  I'm sure a few hardcore DnD fans and people who love the foundry will stick around, but I simply do not see this game maintaining a sizable player base as the game just simply isn't that good.
  cptndunsel

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 117

7/05/13 9:49:23 AM#54

my only interest was to play Drow. I had hoped that '60 days' meant 60 days from open beta and thus around July 1. Now its at least 60 days from release date of june 20, so we are talking end August earliest.

 

FFXiV and, likely, ESO are both out by then. And this game really is not much to hold my interest without being able to play Drow (refuse to hand em $200 for early access).

Broken uninteresting game, questionable business model, better games to play. Just uninstalled and won't look back.

  Chrisbox

Elite Member

Joined: 7/15/10
Posts: 1530

 
OP  7/06/13 12:12:36 AM#55
This is a pretty old thread, I have already abandoned the game entirely so there is little to talk about from my end.  

Played-Everything
Playing-FFXIV:ARR

  kiern

Novice Member

Joined: 3/04/04
Posts: 430

7/06/13 3:47:04 AM#56
Originally posted by Chrisbox
This is a pretty old thread, I have already abandoned the game entirely so whatever is in the original post is kinda useless.  Not sure who dug for this thread lol.  

Not sure how it is useless. The thread isn't about you, it is about the game.  The fact that you no longer play it is irrelevant. The game and the business model remain, so it is still a valid topic. 

 

It's funny how people get jumped on for starting new  threads rather than searching through existing threads on the topic, but  when they do they get ridiculed for digging up an old thread.   

  rojoArcueid

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5597

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

7/06/13 3:56:25 AM#57
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Should've launched as a subscription game in my opinion, thats where the commitment comes in from not only the players but the developers.  

STO and i think CO as well launched as subscription and look where they are (same company). Free to Play with more people they ever had with a sub. In my personal opinion i would have loved if Neverwinter had the GW2 model instead. PWI would benefit a lot from the GW2 model because they tend to release full fledged expansions a lot. But oh well..... At least we can play NWO for a while for a free and then move on to the next game.

My endgame begins with character creation and ends with a new mmorpg

  Chrisbox

Elite Member

Joined: 7/15/10
Posts: 1530

 
OP  7/06/13 2:06:40 PM#58
Originally posted by kiern
Originally posted by Chrisbox
This is a pretty old thread, I have already abandoned the game entirely so whatever is in the original post is kinda useless.  Not sure who dug for this thread lol.  

Not sure how it is useless. The thread isn't about you, it is about the game.  The fact that you no longer play it is irrelevant. The game and the business model remain, so it is still a valid topic. 

 

It's funny how people get jumped on for starting new  threads rather than searching through existing threads on the topic, but  when they do they get ridiculed for digging up an old thread.   

Well I think you took what I said a bit too straight forward, I think most people including myself obviously have already made opinions about this game and for the most part abandoned it, rendering the topic much less attractive to talk about and overall much less interesting.    

Played-Everything
Playing-FFXIV:ARR

  ImperialSun

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/05/12
Posts: 231

7/09/13 7:37:47 AM#59
Originally posted by SpottyGekko

Don't fool yourself with the idea that "committed players" make a financially successful MMO.

They don't.

 

The average MMORPG player wants to reach level cap in 4 to 6 weeks max, followed by a few weeks of grinding "endgame". Then they're bored, because they've "beaten the game" and it's off to the next MMO...

 

People are playing MMO's like single-player games. Everyone's there for launch, but 2 months later they're all gone again. They've "finished" the game.

 

So the F2P games try to earn the maximum income in their first 2 months. After that it's maintenance mode until the servers close.

Sad but true...

This is what happens when MMORPG developers/publishers try and attract the COD generation to their games....

The COD generation plays them like they are SP/FPS style games, then moves on to the next 2 months later... this is why MMORPGs that used to be complex, engaging and community focused are now all turning out like semi instanced, FPS style lobby screen queue fests....click this, queue here....teleport....do a warzone or whatever, click this, check this drop down, queue there...teleport....

Driz  

  Injerin44

Novice Member

Joined: 8/11/12
Posts: 6

7/30/13 11:44:52 PM#60
Originally posted by SpottyGekko

Don't fool yourself with the idea that "committed players" make a financially successful MMO.

They don't.

 

The average MMORPG player wants to reach level cap in 4 to 6 weeks max, followed by a few weeks of grinding "endgame". Then they're bored, because they've "beaten the game" and it's off to the next MMO...

 

People are playing MMO's like single-player games. Everyone's there for launch, but 2 months later they're all gone again. They've "finished" the game.

 

So the F2P games try to earn the maximum income in their first 2 months. After that it's maintenance mode until the servers close.

More the reason to make the games challenging again, instead of catering to the win-button whiners.

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