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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

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81 posts found
  Latronus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/10/08
Posts: 705

PC is not political correctness, it means Political Cowardice!

6/30/13 8:34:12 AM#41
Originally posted by strangiato2112
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by fyerwall
Originally posted by Hahhns

They scrapped thew design aspect, everything else has been made and ready to go . They didn't pull a blizzard and scrap a project like titan after being meh about it. They had idea they were finalizing and finally had the idea they wanted.

 

They have a huge huge team, they can do a lot in a short period. There going free to play and it was said in an interview they would not force pvp on everyone. They can have a great model without it being p2w, but those who disagree are just trolling

See, that's something I am wondering about:

How much did Blizzard really scrap of Titan?

I have a feeling they saw all the hype starting for EQN, read the interviews and thought "Hrm, Titan is looking a lot like ESO/Wildstar/WoW 2.0... I think we need to pull back here and see what happens" and just put the game on hold. I believe that they are waiting for the actual info release from SOE on EQNext to see what they can poach. 

Yeah I got that impression too, I think they are waiting til the latest round of competitors come out to see which design works best for the masses. Then they will copy it and polish it up.

Or, they will do what they did with WoW and create something fresh and take a niche concept and find away to make it enjoyable for the masses.

The people that act like WoW copied EQ or whatever games are clueless.  Themeparks didnt exist before WoW and EQ2, and its not like WoW could have copied EQ2 very much.  These two games created a subgenre (for better or worse), and WoW especially took a niche genre and turned into something the masses could enjoy.

They dumbed the genre down period.  That's what "make it enjoyable for the masses" really means.  That's all WoW did.  It was better for the companies because it meant more cash for them, it was good for the entitlement generation because they could now succeed without much work.  It was bad for the genre depending on your views on the subject.  The fact that most games now could be played by a brain dead zombie seems to point toward WoW being responsible for the downfall of the genre but again, a brain dead zombie would think its the greatest thing since slice bread.

  Dyraele

Novice Member

Joined: 8/16/03
Posts: 196

6/30/13 8:36:02 AM#42
Remember also they scratched the original design and went back to the drawing board about a year or so ago. This will not be the same game they were doing when they started so that adds a lot of development time to the table.

AKA - Bruxail

  Iadien

Novice Member

Joined: 2/12/04
Posts: 646

6/30/13 8:43:48 AM#43
Originally posted by Wizardry

They scrapped the game 18 ,months ago,so in reality the game is barely half done.This has the August time line looking extremely odd as it makes no sense.Why keep everything a secret then release information only half way through the development?

Are they just tossing in a whole pile of rushed maps and going on one gimmick just so they can get the game out this Christmas?Other wise why wouldn't you wait until closer to release,i mean games have their sacred NDA and yet are willing to spill trade secrets this easily and early,makes no sense.

 

You really need to stop spewing this nonsense all over the place, the entire game wasn't scrapped.

  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

6/30/13 8:49:14 AM#44
Originally posted by Latronus
Originally posted by strangiato2112
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by fyerwall
Originally posted by Hahhns

They scrapped thew design aspect, everything else has been made and ready to go . They didn't pull a blizzard and scrap a project like titan after being meh about it. They had idea they were finalizing and finally had the idea they wanted.

 

They have a huge huge team, they can do a lot in a short period. There going free to play and it was said in an interview they would not force pvp on everyone. They can have a great model without it being p2w, but those who disagree are just trolling

See, that's something I am wondering about:

How much did Blizzard really scrap of Titan?

I have a feeling they saw all the hype starting for EQN, read the interviews and thought "Hrm, Titan is looking a lot like ESO/Wildstar/WoW 2.0... I think we need to pull back here and see what happens" and just put the game on hold. I believe that they are waiting for the actual info release from SOE on EQNext to see what they can poach. 

Yeah I got that impression too, I think they are waiting til the latest round of competitors come out to see which design works best for the masses. Then they will copy it and polish it up.

Or, they will do what they did with WoW and create something fresh and take a niche concept and find away to make it enjoyable for the masses.

The people that act like WoW copied EQ or whatever games are clueless.  Themeparks didnt exist before WoW and EQ2, and its not like WoW could have copied EQ2 very much.  These two games created a subgenre (for better or worse), and WoW especially took a niche genre and turned into something the masses could enjoy.

They dumbed the genre down period.  That's what "make it enjoyable for the masses" really means.  That's all WoW did.  It was better for the companies because it meant more cash for them, it was good for the entitlement generation because they could now succeed without much work.  It was bad for the genre depending on your views on the subject.  The fact that most games now could be played by a brain dead zombie seems to point toward WoW being responsible for the downfall of the genre but again, a brain dead zombie would think its the greatest thing since slice bread.

WoW wasnt bad for the genre.  Its the devs that keep copying the bad points of WoW and almost never the good points that is bad for the genre.  If leveling wasnt meaningful in WoW it never would have been the hit it was.  If the world wasnt extremely well made with interesting people and places it wouldnt have been the hit it was.  And up through TBC the WoW grouping endgame wasnt easy.  that changed with wotlk, but games now try to emulate wotlk WoW and not vanilla WoW, and completely lack the soul that WoW has

  Eigetsu

Novice Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 18

6/30/13 9:21:08 AM#45
Originally posted by ZeroOne.TheDreamer
"I believe they said it is F2P."
 
PLEASE NO!
 
This can't be true. I really hate this payment method because it impacts on all mechanics in the game!

Second this. SOE's F2P is horrible!

  Iadien

Novice Member

Joined: 2/12/04
Posts: 646

6/30/13 9:24:59 AM#46
Originally posted by Eigetsu
Originally posted by ZeroOne.TheDreamer
"I believe they said it is F2P."
 
PLEASE NO!
 
This can't be true. I really hate this payment method because it impacts on all mechanics in the game!

Second this. SOE's F2P is horrible!

It's pretty good now, have you checked it out in the past couple of months? If you think that's horrible, then I guess you'll hate EQN. We really don't know what EQN's F2P model will be like, because SoE keeps refining their own model with each new game.

  Eigetsu

Novice Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 18

6/30/13 9:50:09 AM#47
Originally posted by Iadien
Originally posted by Eigetsu
Originally posted by ZeroOne.TheDreamer
"I believe they said it is F2P."
 
PLEASE NO!
 
This can't be true. I really hate this payment method because it impacts on all mechanics in the game!

Second this. SOE's F2P is horrible!

It's pretty good now, have you checked it out in the past couple of months? If you think that's horrible, then I guess you'll hate EQN. We really don't know what EQN's F2P model will be like, because SoE keeps refining their own model with each new game.

I played PS2 and those stupid new OP weapons and max 30 certs\hour made me angry. This game is P2WIN.

  Giffen

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/28/04
Posts: 189

6/30/13 10:48:56 AM#48
Originally posted by Wizardry

They scrapped the game 18 ,months ago,so in reality the game is barely half done.This has the August time line looking extremely odd as it makes no sense.Why keep everything a secret then release information only half way through the development?

Are they just tossing in a whole pile of rushed maps and going on one gimmick just so they can get the game out this Christmas?Other wise why wouldn't you wait until closer to release,i mean games have their sacred NDA and yet are willing to spill trade secrets this easily and early,makes no sense.

 

Scrapping a game doesn't mean losing all the zones, maps, and artwork which is the majority of what takes time on a game anyway.  They are just talking about remaking the game systems.

  Allein

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/13
Posts: 649

6/30/13 2:30:32 PM#49
Originally posted by Mischief
Originally posted by Allein
Originally posted by Mischief
Originally posted by tkoreaper
Originally posted by deveilblad
Originally posted by tkoreaper

TF2/GW2 don't have many P2W options. I haven't played much PS2, but it doesn't seem to have too much of an issue either.

EQN will most likely follow SOE's other games with multiple levels of buy in. F2P, Sub, and something in between when you spend a little $. F2P has its pros and cons, but either way, it is the future (especially SOE's).

I haven't tried TF2 so I can't comment on it.  I have played GW2 and PS2 though.  GW2 has the gems to gold conversion so you can purchase better gear with real life money.  PS2 you needed to unlock weapons (they said they were all equal power level but lets just be honest here) which could be done with extreme amounts of xp or with your credit card instantly.  Both games had xp boosting items for purchase with cash.  Again I know that comparatively these games have been much better about it than some of the terrible terrible games, but none the less the more money you give them the more powerful you are.  It is deceptive marketing.  Its not really the future, It's the now, and it wont change until we as consumers force the change.

The way I look at it from a semi-casual/serious gamer, I've never felt like anything offered in GW2 was harming my gameplay. I don't buy XP bonuses, but at the same time, I don't play 12+ hours a day either. I am realistic and know that there are people more dedicated either financially or time played then myself and I will have to work harder/longer than them to some degree. MMOs aren't "fair" and unless there is some really OP things to purchase, I don't find it that bad.

EQN will have bots and farmers, just like every other mmo. People with the cash to spend will buy power leveling, items, plat, etc. SOE can do what they can to prevent these services from being available, but they might as well offer their own services to make it less tempting.

I'd much rather someone pay SOE $5 for an XP boost then to some bot-farming company for power leveling with mindless zombies running around.

I don't mind paying $15/month, but at the same time, why bother if all I have to see is a pop up box every once in a while or some icon on the screen. EQ still offers a monthly add free sub and I'm sure EQN will offer the same.

As long as I can enjoy my experience and am not hindered in anyway, I'm fine with whatever is offered. I think offering only F2P or Sub is a mistake. The more options, the larger the pool of players. A game being one system or another doesn't draw a better/worse group of people.

And as seen by EQ/EQ2, going F2P will bring in a lot of people that might have never given these games a second glance. It's a good way to draw people in and I'm sure many have started F2P and moved on to Sub. Similar to why many games came with one month free. It's a chance to test the waters and see if you want to invest your time/money in the game after the initial buy in.

  Jigawatts

Novice Member

Joined: 6/22/13
Posts: 44

6/30/13 2:59:34 PM#50

I too would like EQN to be subscription based with no cash shop, although I'm not deluded enough to believe that will actually be the case.

As for the person who said WoW didn't copy EQ2, of coarse it didnt, it copied original EQ, and made it more accessible with better polish and marketing. Blizzard didn't do anything truly innovative with WoW, it just merely took the formula that already existed and polished it into a fine gem.

Also WoW, in the beginning, wasn't a "themepark", at least not what we consider that term to mean nowadays. It was open, you weren't really hand-held and coddled, you had to figure out your place in the world yourself, and it was challenging. Granted it removed several of the fist-shaking complaints of EQ1 (no XP loss/naked corpse runs, addition of flight paths, offline auction house, etc), but vanilla WoW would be considered a pretty "hardcore" game by todays standards.

A commenter alluded to it earlier, but I believe that history could repeat itself here, EQN comes out, with genre altering gameplay and features, people play it, people love it, and it gets a stabilized player base of somewhere around 1 million. Then 3-4 years from now Blizzard releases Titan (or whatever it will be called), which takes EQN and finely polishes it, with better marketing, the same way WoW did to EQ1, which gives Blizzard yet another game with several million players, and another "win" over EQ.

Time will tell.

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 10793

6/30/13 3:22:04 PM#51

ive seen strong hints that Player Studio will be in EQN

 

March 2013 video interview

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wVIIIZ6ETtY#at=129

 

what that means - I dont know

if its anything like EQ2, its player made items sold for cash

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2391

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

6/30/13 3:52:42 PM#52
Originally posted by Mischief
Originally posted by tkoreaper
Originally posted by deveilblad
Originally posted by tkoreaper

They said EQN will be the largest sandbox game in existence. Keep in mind that sandbox is a very broad term and it could go in many different directions. F2P isn't very bad either, I think people just have a very bad taste in their mouths from the slew of horrible F2P/P2W games. If you look at much more mature games like Rift and Planetside 2 (Which is SOE btw) you'll notice that the F2P model CAN and DOES work and is no way like those other horrible games.

 

F2P is P2W...  I have yet to see a F2P game that doesn't offer competitive advantages for giving them money.   XP potions, more bags, better gear, unlocking weapons...   Im not intending to miss your overall point, which is some F2P models are much worse than others.  Its just I'm exhausted with people who believe F2P is something beneficial cause it is a blight on the MMO industry.  

I am looking forward to EQN, I like sandbox style games, I like the Everquest world, I am intrigued by Storybricks, I love the idea of the Player Studio... The only thing that I have heard so far that I look on with dread is the payment model.  Hopefully it will be as subtle as possible but man do I wish they would just let me pay them $15 a month and call it good....

 Sorry but P2W is not synonymous with Paying for Convenience. 

Buying a Potion that allows you to earn 25% additional exp for a limited time is not the same as buying a suit of armor that gives you a statistical advantage.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  tkoreaper

Novice Member

Joined: 6/03/09
Posts: 386

6/30/13 4:15:07 PM#53

F2P =/= P2W

Are there some F2P games that are? Sure, but definitely not all.

PS2 - Nothing P2W. You can argue that experience boosts are, but they're not. It gives you absolutely no advantage over me if I spend nothing. Buying weapons? Congrats, all you did was avoid the grind to get a different type of weapon. Speaking of weapons, it's advantage/power over any similar weapon is highly situational.

Similar things can be said about GW2... Gold =/= power, especially in a game where the only differences with weapons/armor are their looks and not their power.

Rift - boosts have been already covered. You gain no actual competitive advantage over someone who doesn't pay. Can you purchase gear? Yes, but it's FAR from the best and again it's just a time saver. If someone wants to skip all the dungeon grind and jump straight into raids they can, but it's not quite the best entry level raid gear.

People need to just get over the whole F2P thing... It's here to stay because it is a much better business model. Better business = better all-around games. You can pay $15 a month and play with less people who, like you, must spend hours and hours to advance each step of progression OR you can bump that style of gameplay down to the free players and give some perks to those that want to pay and skip all the bullshit so they can actually enjoy the GAME. The free players will get there eventually and it won't take a huge amount of time.

  Iadien

Novice Member

Joined: 2/12/04
Posts: 646

6/30/13 4:51:32 PM#54
Originally posted by Nadia

ive seen strong hints that Player Studio will be in EQN

 

March 2013 video interview

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wVIIIZ6ETtY#at=129

 

what that means - I dont know

if its anything like EQ2, its player made items sold for cash

Yep, we've known for a long time that Player Studio was a beta of sorts for EQN. They're going to push player made content much further in EQN.

  Mischief

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/10/03
Posts: 76

''Happiness is a temporay chemical imbalance to the true state of mind''

6/30/13 5:21:51 PM#55
Originally posted by Allein
Originally posted by Mischief
Originally posted by Allein
Originally posted by Mischief
Originally posted by tkoreaper
Originally posted by deveilblad
Originally posted by tkoreaper

As long as I can enjoy my experience and am not hindered in anyway, I'm fine with whatever is offered. I think offering only F2P or Sub is a mistake. The more options, the larger the pool of players. A game being one system or another doesn't draw a better/worse group of people.

And as seen by EQ/EQ2, going F2P will bring in a lot of people that might have never given these games a second glance. It's a good way to draw people in and I'm sure many have started F2P and moved on to Sub. Similar to why many games came with one month free. It's a chance to test the waters and see if you want to invest your time/money in the game after the initial buy in.

If they give us a good sub option I am happy.  But if it’s similar to the PS2 model where you need to spend weeks grinding to unlock features of the game that could also be unlocked with micro transactions it will really bum me out.  It devastates immersion for me.  I want to earn my rewards not purchase them.

  tkoreaper

Novice Member

Joined: 6/03/09
Posts: 386

6/30/13 5:44:28 PM#56
Originally posted by Mischief
Originally posted by Allein
Originally posted by Mischief
Originally posted by Allein
Originally posted by Mischief
Originally posted by tkoreaper
Originally posted by deveilblad
Originally posted by tkoreaper

As long as I can enjoy my experience and am not hindered in anyway, I'm fine with whatever is offered. I think offering only F2P or Sub is a mistake. The more options, the larger the pool of players. A game being one system or another doesn't draw a better/worse group of people.

And as seen by EQ/EQ2, going F2P will bring in a lot of people that might have never given these games a second glance. It's a good way to draw people in and I'm sure many have started F2P and moved on to Sub. Similar to why many games came with one month free. It's a chance to test the waters and see if you want to invest your time/money in the game after the initial buy in.

If they give us a good sub option I am happy.  But if it’s similar to the PS2 model where you need to spend weeks grinding to unlock features of the game that could also be unlocked with micro transactions it will really bum me out.  It devastates immersion for me.  I want to earn my rewards not purchase them.

It doesn't take weeks if you play enough. Playing with a 10% experience booster, I’ve earned 1173 cert with a 1.62 K/D in 30 hours of in-game time. That would afford one or two weapons of the higher tier, and maybe two more minor upgrades, like optics. That's hardly a week if you play 4 hours a day and you would most likely get more than I have in this example.

The only thing I would agree with is the absurd costs of these things. To get all the weapons unlocked for your faction (Just one) you'd have to spend over $375.

  Mischief

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/10/03
Posts: 76

''Happiness is a temporay chemical imbalance to the true state of mind''

6/30/13 5:44:55 PM#57
Originally posted by tkoreaper

F2P =/= P2W

Are there some F2P games that are? Sure, but definitely not all.

PS2 - Nothing P2W. You can argue that experience boosts are, but they're not. It gives you absolutely no advantage over me if I spend nothing. Buying weapons? Congrats, all you did was avoid the grind to get a different type of weapon. Speaking of weapons, it's advantage/power over any similar weapon is highly situational.

Similar things can be said about GW2... Gold =/= power, especially in a game where the only differences with weapons/armor are their looks and not their power.

Rift - boosts have been already covered. You gain no actual competitive advantage over someone who doesn't pay. Can you purchase gear? Yes, but it's FAR from the best and again it's just a time saver. If someone wants to skip all the dungeon grind and jump straight into raids they can, but it's not quite the best entry level raid gear.

People need to just get over the whole F2P thing... It's here to stay because it is a much better business model. Better business = better all-around games. You can pay $15 a month and play with less people who, like you, must spend hours and hours to advance each step of progression OR you can bump that style of gameplay down to the free players and give some perks to those that want to pay and skip all the bullshit so they can actually enjoy the GAME. The free players will get there eventually and it won't take a huge amount of time.

Ok... so we both play PS2 for 40 hours and do everything in game the same earning the same xp and so forth... we are equal skill levels....  I use my credit cards and pay for xp boosts the entire time and pay to unlock the weapons... you don't.... your going to say that I wouldn't have a significant advantage over you?  Cause I would.  Also gear in GW2 was significant, there was a noticeable difference in upgrading rarity tiers of gear.  

You seem to completely dismiss the "time spent" to earn something as if it has no value when in reality that time is giving a competitive advantage to the person that spends money because they are that far ahead of the curve. 

You are confusing better business for larger profit margins, I recognize that the gaming studios have increased revenue from F2P.  However making more money has not  translated to making better products for the consumer. 

Ok so you say pay $15 a month and play with less people or join F2P and give perks to those that want to pay.   The point is these games are adding "bullshit" into the games in order to encourage you to give them money to skip it.  The reason I prefer a subscription over P2W is I don't want the bullshit in the game in the first place. 

  hayes303

Elite Member

Joined: 3/13/04
Posts: 344

6/30/13 5:46:07 PM#58
Just to toss everyone on their ear, it would be sweet if by nothing you've seen before, he meant its a space based board game simulator.
  Mischief

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/10/03
Posts: 76

''Happiness is a temporay chemical imbalance to the true state of mind''

6/30/13 5:54:18 PM#59
Originally posted by tkoreaper
Originally posted by Mischief
Originally posted by Allein
Originally posted by Mischief
Originally posted by Allein
Originally posted by Mischief
Originally posted by tkoreaper
Originally posted by deveilblad
Originally posted by tkoreaper

It doesn't take weeks if you play enough. Playing with a 10% experience booster, I’ve earned 1173 cert with a 1.62 K/D in 30 hours of in-game time. That would afford one or two weapons of the higher tier, and maybe two more minor upgrades, like optics. That's hardly a week if you play 4 hours a day and you would most likely get more than I have in this example.

You are sorta making my point for me, you could either give them cash or spend 28ish hours working to unlock 1 or 2 of the weapons.  That puts anyone that spends the money 1 week ahead of you in a PVP game...  Thats P2W

  radagast777

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/15/11
Posts: 79

6/30/13 6:01:22 PM#60
How do you win an mmorpg? its more like pay for convenience
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