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News & Features Discussion  » [Dev Journal] General: Have MMOs Become Too Easy?

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394 posts found

Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2604

6/29/13 7:24:57 PM#241
Originally posted by steamtank

anyone who says vanilla WoW was casual...


never went for rank 14(15?) in pvp (lawl its been a few years... i made rank 13)

never raided vanilla content pre-nerfs


it all went downhill at 1st expansion when the development shifted goals

Just because a lot people play something in a hardcore manner, does not make the game hardcore. The PvP, quests, and raids in WoW were all incredibly simple and casual. FRom day one.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/29/13
Posts: 174

6/29/13 7:46:16 PM#242
Originally posted by Arclan


Originally posted by moosecatlol
...It's funny to think now that everyone sees WoW as the most casual game to have ever existed, while the same time factually realizing that it still holds the title of most hardcore PvE game to have ever existed and it did so without the crutch of perma-death or exploding gear.


This is an example of how to win people over. Acknowledge, respectfully, another's position and offer up evidence for yours. Well spoken, sir; I am moved. Posts like this one make me think I should really give WoW a try. Especially since I have been a blizzard fan since Orcs & Humans. Or perhaps I should wait for Titan.


WoW being the "most hardcore PvE".   Hah!

You want "most hardcore PvE"?   Try EQ plane-raids in the first few years.   Or DAoC's Atlantean 200 person ML raids, which lasted 13+ hours, for some.

WoW + anything "hardcore" = Hahahahahahahahahahaha! 


Advanced Member

Joined: 12/31/12
Posts: 666

6/29/13 8:00:40 PM#243
Why do people equate having a shit and piss bucket next to their computer + blood clotting as hardcore?  What happened to problem solving and hand eye coordination?


Joined: 6/14/12
Posts: 167

6/29/13 8:17:59 PM#244
Better question would be has articles become way too fucking generic bullshit.

ArcheAge, Black Desert and Bless videos InporylemQQ Youtube


Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 1

6/29/13 8:56:46 PM#245
I can't deny that many of the actual MMO's are really boring because of their lack of difficulty, but if you ask me this is happening because of the players that want to become pro's in a day or two and sadly they are the majority in this world.

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/06/11
Posts: 22

6/29/13 9:06:46 PM#246
No it's the opposite. they force you to group with douche bags, which is hard. I already work with them, why would i want to play with them in a game? I wouldn't. Someone could hold a gun to my head and i'd rather die than group with people i don't know.  Thankfully there's cheats to solo group content. that's the only time i'd ever cheat.

Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2604

6/29/13 9:58:30 PM#247
Originally posted by FlyByKnight
Why do people equate having a shit and piss bucket next to their computer + blood clotting as hardcore?  What happened to problem solving and hand eye coordination?

Neither of which is important in modern MMOs when you have GUIs you can download that play the game for you and in game quests that light up the objectives.

What's hardcore is risk vs reward game design with deep and numerous gameplay mechanics.


Novice Member

Joined: 4/10/09
Posts: 809

6/29/13 10:22:21 PM#248
This is the best article on

Novice Member

Joined: 4/10/09
Posts: 809

6/29/13 10:24:14 PM#249
Bring back death penalties, slow progression, very different classes, etc. Just because it;s hard doesn't mean you have to play 24 hours a day 7 days a week. There is no rush to endgame.

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/25/06
Posts: 1611

6/29/13 10:25:08 PM#250
The gameplay still remains the same. Have a look at EQ1 and have a look at WoW the goal is to kill stuff while pressing buttons pretty much. It's just alot of things have been made easier such as trivial death penalty, easier talent choices, and the experience sped up somewhat. So, the gameplay is still the same it's just everything else has been made more convenient. 

This isn't a signature, you just think it is.


Novice Member

Joined: 10/07/12
Posts: 69

6/29/13 10:34:22 PM#251
Originally posted by FlyByKnight

I don't know if games are too easy.  What I do know is that some developers currently don't know what "difficulty" is.  They think it's just adding tons of hp, tons of damage and making the enemy NPCs as cheap as possible.  That's not challenging that's annoying.  It's bad lazy design


It's ironic that Firefall is one of the images referenced with pictures. Firefall is a game full of aimbots, that have more hp than necessary they can kill people pretty quickly no matter how skilled you are because they track you and are cheap.  That's absolute NOT a challenge. People simply find exploits in the bad AI or positional exploits, or burn through content by zerging through it.  Firefall isn't "too hard" it's cheap and poorly designed.  It's easy to exploit and frustratingly BAD if you don't.


It's the same reason why Guild Wars 2 dungeons tend to be utter garbage because ANet doesn't know what difficulty and challenge is. They shoe horned in mechanics to compete with TERA. 


A game like The Secret World has the best dungeons and challenges out of any of the new release MMOs. They took to the time to craft mechanics and encounters that challenges a players hand eye coordination, team work, build and decision making.

Secret world was a blatant 1 shot fest in any dungeon on hard or nightmare. It took a game that was supposed to make a myriad of builds viable shoehorn people into about 3 that worked. Please do not try to champion that garbage game when many left because of their crappy end game gear grind that only rehashed dungeons you've done a million times by doing what you supposedly hate. ADD MORE HP AND DAMAGE.

Secret world good story and bad everything else.


"Do not speak to me of fate!" ~ A fairy tale for the Demon Lord


Novice Member

Joined: 10/07/12
Posts: 69

6/29/13 10:39:40 PM#252
Secret world was a blatant 1 shot fest in any dungeon on hard or nightmare. It took a game that was supposed to make a myriad of builds viable shoehorn people into about 3 that worked. Please do not try to champion that garbage game when many left because of their crappy end game gear grind that only rehashed dungeons you've done a million times by doing what you supposedly hate. ADD MORE HP AND DAMAGE.

"Do not speak to me of fate!" ~ A fairy tale for the Demon Lord


Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/27/04
Posts: 2993

C64 Cracked Warez Intros FTW

6/29/13 10:49:35 PM#253
Originally posted by DMKano

MMOs were always easy, today they just don't require lifetime commitments to get anything done.

We are living in an accelerated age, 40 hours to gain 1 level by grinding 100s of the same mob in one spot - ain't nobody got time for that!

I am looking for more fun and entertaining experience that takes less time. I don't want to spend 40+ hours a week in front of my PC playing some MMORPG that belongs in the late 1990s, I still play EQ1 and I played it since launch. EQ1 at launch was horrendously slow paced as far as XP, we just didn't know any different. I don't want to play a game like that again.

So if hard=time commitment, no thanks, I am done with that crap forever.

just my opinion after 15 years of online gaming.


Different strokes for different folks.

We all got our taste and I been probably playing just as many years like yourself and maybe even more since the Vic 20 was my 1st home computer. I remember getting the C64 and a copy of Zork from Infocom and that game put my mind to think on what the hell I was suppose to do in a text base game.

The introduction to MMORPG's when they became a bad addiction was probably around the time of Ultima Online, but led into a 3D format like Evercrack and so fourth. The games had challenge, they were new and different, you had to use your brain and was pretty much for a niche bunch of gaming geeks that role played in real life. We didnt have Teamspeak and treat the game like a job, but a hobby to hop onto the games with your friends and enjoy the virtual world.

This generation of mmo gamers are alot different from the era I grew up in and instant gratification just simply sucks, plain and simple. This is why so many players game hop to look for something more challenging and rewarding than their last challenge.

I may be part of the minority now of the ole fashion mmorpg players, but I can tell you I got better memories in the older games than thew newer mmo's we got now. I immersed myself in the older mmorpg's, however these new ones are nothing but hop in, get your fix and leave to the other next big thing.



Novice Member

Joined: 7/13/10
Posts: 1171

I want an mmorpg where pvp matters, my enemies are not my race or class, and community matters.

6/29/13 10:53:44 PM#254
Originally posted by SBFord

One of the debates that rages in the MMO-space these days is whether or not MMOs have become to simplistic. In an exclusive developer blog, Red 5's Mark Kern discusses the subject from his very unique perspective. See what he's got to say before heading to the comments to leave your thoughts.

It all started with the drive to make MMOs, which in the EQ and Ultima days were a niche and hard core game, more accessible. Accessibility was the mantra when I was leading the World of Warcraft team. We labored over the user interface for the game, going through many iterations, to find one that would be easy and intuitive for players new to the genre. We created a massive number of quests to lead the player through the world, making sure that they never had to think about what to do next. 

Read more of Mark Kern's Have MMOs Become Too Easy?

Easy is nice when you have a low population.  Difficulty is nice when you know you will get into a group.  Most mmorpgs I can think of are just solo Rpgs until you level cap and then it just becomes a silly gear fest.



Advanced Member

Joined: 4/27/13
Posts: 658

6/29/13 10:55:22 PM#255
They've become more time friendly, so if time equates to difficulty, then yes they've become much easier. 

Novice Member

Joined: 12/16/09
Posts: 473

6/29/13 11:01:02 PM#256

So... what you're saying is --- THIS IS YOUR FAULT!


Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 5695

6/29/13 11:02:23 PM#257

One of the best games developed in the past few years is Minecraft. What a great game. But I really don't play it that much anymore. As soon as the game presents a challenge or requires me to do something tedious, I am to tempted to go into Creative Mode. I can't seem to get away from it. Even if I set the game so it's not there, I eventually breakdown and edit the DAT file and allow it. I give it too easy. So the game got boring because I take shortcuts when the are available.

This is similar to what has happened to MMOs.  Too many things are just given now, no effort no accomplishment so no reward value. In an effort to reduce the grind, Devs have shot themselves in the foot.


Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/08/12
Posts: 663

"Veni Vidi Vici"

6/29/13 11:49:00 PM#258
Or maybe players have become too good hehe.

Looking at: The Repopulation
Preordering: None
Playing: Random Games


Advanced Member

Joined: 12/31/12
Posts: 666

6/29/13 11:53:39 PM#259
Originally posted by ExiledTyrant
Secret world was a blatant 1 shot fest in any dungeon on hard or nightmare. It took a game that was supposed to make a myriad of builds viable shoehorn people into about 3 that worked. Please do not try to champion that garbage game when many left because of their crappy end game gear grind that only rehashed dungeons you've done a million times by doing what you supposedly hate. ADD MORE HP AND DAMAGE.

That's a LIE. Players have a choice of putting on gear and skills to do any task they want, and it promotes team work and synergy.  


For the record I'm not championing anything.  The Secret World is far from perfect but they got the dungeon mechanics and questing right especially on Nightmare which introduced mechanics that challenged people.  



Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/06/08
Posts: 2370

6/30/13 12:21:48 AM#260

Mostly, but I think the blame falls on players. Games are made easier and more casual to target a large audience, so it's profitable enough to make up for the huge amount of money it costs these days to make a game. In order to be a successful niche game with the difficulty the most vocal of the base are asking for, developers would need to lower the overall quality of the game (content, graphics, etc) in order to remain in business while purposefully targeting a smaller audience. Except, by doing this, they then alienate a significant portion of even that base, who will turn up their noses at the game because the graphics aren't comparable with current/next-gen AAAs.


Gamers are their own worst enemies.

"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

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