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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Please, tell me why you hate PVP so much. I just don't understand.

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542 posts found
  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7651

 
OP  6/29/13 5:13:07 PM#481
Originally posted by w407309

I dont 'hate' pvp hell i Play EvE which clearly would be the wrong game if i hated eve

But, in terms of thsi conversation I would like to assume that MMO is of the "Cartoon/Asian/Wow {styled}" MMOs

For me personally its because i am not any good lol :).

By any good i mean my age, my lack of ability and my uber slow CBA to think to fast means i lose far far more than i win.

Some people would have seen how bad i am, if we consider WoW my guy was Quazaline/Quazal who was made semi-famous by our 'worst ever' duo in the BG https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wASHa3hk2n8 and nope i wasn't messing about, I REALLY AM THAT BAD

I dont try to pretend otherwise :), my skills in MMO lie in the ability to make money/isk/gold i lvoe the crafting / market side of games, yes i like pve, yes i dont mind Raids etc but PvP is the very very lowest of my 'wants' in mmo

 

So whilst i appreciate the skills involved i dont have them abilities, and dont pretend to have them :) but please feel free to watch the vid and enjoy lol :)

 

Quaz

 

nb if you really dont think this is me feel free to convo me in Eve or any other game im playing Quazal (male) and Quazaline (female) is ALWAYS my name on first toons on any mmo i play :)

in a well built game, like Wushu, or EVE you have options. It's funny how the best PvP games are the best crafting games.

 

Unfortunately the vast majority of gamers have not experienced either.  If  I went through the bullshit they've been through in these ganking, corpse camping, cookie cutter mmorpgs, I would hate pvp too.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2898

There... are... four... lights!

6/29/13 5:13:29 PM#482
Originally posted by ea732

I love PvP..... Story time, Back in vanilla WoW i remember parting up with 3 of my buddies in strangle thorn vale leveling our 40 toons. When in the distance we see a Lv?? Pally, but to our luck he was AFK so being the PvP enthusiasts we are we run over to him and start wailing away, took us a good 20 min to kill this guy but we were laughing hysterically. When the deed was done we jumped off a nearby cliff and continued questing. Not even 5min later we see the pally mounted on his horse perched up on the cliff we just jumped off of. He puts two and two together "these are the guys that killed me" He jumps off the cliff my buddies and I and yelling in Vent "OH S***!!" running down the shore. He catches up to us in a matter of  seconds and just insta kills us one at a time..... it was freaking hilarious.

 

The good ol days.

And you really think that's "good PvP"?

Some lowbies ganking an AFK higher level, who then retaliates by one shotting them?

Where's the challenge, the fight, the skill, the pride of well earned victory?

I see this more like a "beavis and butthead" quality joke... not even funny the first time.

If you told me you had a hell of the fight with the pally, 3 lowbies against one high level, and barely managed to beat him despite your disadvantage, then I would applaud the epic PvP. But fact is, if the guy had come back to his keyboard before you managed to kill him, you'd be dead in one hit. Fantastic PvP, really amazing. Please, tell me more of those stories of epic fights.

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  maccarthur2004

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/02/12
Posts: 510

6/29/13 5:16:26 PM#483
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by maccarthur2004
Originally posted by Thorqemada

 there will be no successfull FFA-PvP MMORPG in the west.

UO, L2 and EVE are proofs you're wrong.

The only reason why UO still exists is because it's no longer a forced open world FFA PvP MMORPG.

UO was succesfull before Trammel.

 

Same goes for EvE and L2, those game have more or less efficient ways to limit the mindless ganking and allow more play styles to enjoy the game.

FFA PVP with punishments to gank is the more logical and realistic approach to the open world pvp. You now can agree that open world pvp dont necessarily means more ganks,

 

All the games who tried unlimited FFA (or limited, but with failed limitations), are all niche games or dead games right now.

 

I never see a AAA mmo like that. Only when i see one, i will can say if a "hardcore"  ffa pvp can or cant be successful. Archeage will be AAA but will not be so hardcore, althought its OWpvp will be slightly more hardocre than L2.

 

 

"What we are aiming in ArcheAge is to let the players feel the true fun of MMORPG by forming a community like real life by interacting with other players, whether it be conflict or cooperation." (Jake Song)

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2898

There... are... four... lights!

6/29/13 5:21:51 PM#484
Originally posted by maccarthur2004
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by maccarthur2004
Originally posted by Thorqemada

 there will be no successfull FFA-PvP MMORPG in the west.

UO, L2 and EVE are proofs you're wrong.

The only reason why UO still exists is because it's no longer a forced open world FFA PvP MMORPG.

UO was succesfull before Trammel.

Wrong. I was in the UO early beta, 17+ years ago, I followed the game all the way to and past Trammel, and from the developer's own words, Trammel saved UO. People were leaving in droves for games like EQ or AC1, which were offering either 100% safe worlds or the choice between PvP and PvE. The player numbers were damatically dropping. And after Trammel was released, UO quickly went back to its initial population and then exceeded it big time, up to 250k players until early 2004 when it finally started to drop when faced to more and more true 3D MMORPGs.

I know it's the "wet dream" of some specific UO veterans to think UO was already fine before Trammel, but it's only a dream. When games without forced PvP were released, UO's population went down faster than an Alliance cruiser shot by the Death Star.

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  ElRenmazuo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/28/06
Posts: 4318

6/29/13 5:29:27 PM#485
I like PvP just in a different genre of games like shooters and fighters.  In mmorpgs i like to relax and play an adventure and go through a story with friends.

https://33.media.tumblr.com/262c40940b3181ade1001120dd379aaa/tumblr_nfrzn853rR1rz64nto6_r1_400.gif

  maplestone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

6/29/13 5:29:37 PM#486
Originally posted by maccarthur2004

It's the second or third time you answer my posts with nonsense content. Are you stalking me? Reported.

I have been trying to draw your attention to the title of the thread.  You are not explaining why you don't enjoy PvP.  You are stating that you should enjoy it and arguing against people who are saying they don't.

It was not my intention to be threatening.  So my bad for misreading how you would react and, given that, for singling you out as an active poster in my attempt to nudge the thread back to (what seems to me) to be its topic.

( that said, the way our interaction has decayed into hostility is a good example of why I've often found it had hard to play alongside PvPers - ribbing escalates into combativeness because the default interaction between players is not friendly; it's just not fun to be around )

( unless you got it and just decided to double-down on my quip with a sarcastic comment of your own, in which case touche ... *wanders down the infinite maze of over-thinking* )

  ragz45

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/08
Posts: 482

6/29/13 5:37:39 PM#487

Love PvP when I have a fair chance.  A level 50 killing a level 15, i'm not a fan of.  Or being killed while I'm attempting to kill 4 sabertooth tigers that have me at 30% life already, also not a fan of.

Age of Wushu does pvp right, with the entire game designed from the ground up for PvP.  If it wasn't being run by one of the worst MMO publisher/studio's ever, I would still be playing it.  But all of the PTW, nickle & dime charges, etc that goes on in the game drove me away.

The real problem is that most of the games made to be PVP from the ground up, are always made by horrible Dev's & studios.  (See darkfall, age of wushu, etc)

MMO's that have great PvP, and were designed from the ground up to be 100% PvP oriented, with a studio that doesn't suck?

  • EVE online

  Yamota

Elite Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6697

Gaming should be about fun, not gender equality.

6/29/13 5:45:46 PM#488
Originally posted by ragz45

Love PvP when I have a fair chance.  A level 50 killing a level 15, i'm not a fan of.  Or being killed while I'm attempting to kill 4 sabertooth tigers that have me at 30% life already, also not a fan of.

Age of Wushu does pvp right, with the entire game designed from the ground up for PvP.  If it wasn't being run by one of the worst MMO publisher/studio's ever, I would still be playing it.  But all of the PTW, nickle & dime charges, etc that goes on in the game drove me away.

The real problem is that most of the games made to be PVP from the ground up, are always made by horrible Dev's & studios.  (See darkfall, age of wushu, etc)

MMO's that have great PvP, and were designed from the ground up to be 100% PvP oriented, with a studio that doesn't suck?

  • EVE online

Eve has to most un-even PvP of any MMORPG. The game's entire PvP revolved around gank or be ganked, dont think I have ever seen an evenly matched PvP battle in that game and I played for about 6 months.

For FFA PvP to work, PvP death has to be balanced, so you dont lose too much and not too little so it does not matter if you die, and you need to get people a decent chance to get away from gankers.

  fyerwall

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/01/04
Posts: 3204

6/29/13 5:49:56 PM#489
Originally posted by ragz45

Love PvP when I have a fair chance.  A level 50 killing a level 15, i'm not a fan of.  Or being killed while I'm attempting to kill 4 sabertooth tigers that have me at 30% life already, also not a fan of.

Age of Wushu does pvp right, with the entire game designed from the ground up for PvP.  If it wasn't being run by one of the worst MMO publisher/studio's ever, I would still be playing it.  But all of the PTW, nickle & dime charges, etc that goes on in the game drove me away.

The real problem is that most of the games made to be PVP from the ground up, are always made by horrible Dev's & studios.  (See darkfall, age of wushu, etc)

MMO's that have great PvP, and were designed from the ground up to be 100% PvP oriented, with a studio that doesn't suck?

  • EVE online

And even EVE was a gamble to begin with. They were an indie developer and had to feel the game out as they went. Big studios don't want that gamble because they know a slightly bad system design can throw the whole game into a spiral of player loss and bad panic fixes (See UO). And with the current budgets for games, investors want assured returns. CCP hit the right note, and maybe they can do it again with WoD.

There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"


  Quazal.A

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/10/13
Posts: 422

6/29/13 5:54:58 PM#490
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by w407309

I dont 'hate' pvp hell i Play EvE which clearly would be the wrong game if i hated eve

But, in terms of thsi conversation I would like to assume that MMO is of the "Cartoon/Asian/Wow {styled}" MMOs

For me personally its because i am not any good lol :).

By any good i mean my age, my lack of ability and my uber slow CBA to think to fast means i lose far far more than i win.

Some people would have seen how bad i am, if we consider WoW my guy was Quazaline/Quazal who was made semi-famous by our 'worst ever' duo in the BG https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wASHa3hk2n8 and nope i wasn't messing about, I REALLY AM THAT BAD

I dont try to pretend otherwise :), my skills in MMO lie in the ability to make money/isk/gold i lvoe the crafting / market side of games, yes i like pve, yes i dont mind Raids etc but PvP is the very very lowest of my 'wants' in mmo

 

So whilst i appreciate the skills involved i dont have them abilities, and dont pretend to have them :) but please feel free to watch the vid and enjoy lol :)

 

Quaz

 

nb if you really dont think this is me feel free to convo me in Eve or any other game im playing Quazal (male) and Quazaline (female) is ALWAYS my name on first toons on any mmo i play :)

in a well built game, like Wushu, or EVE you have options. It's funny how the best PvP games are the best crafting games.

 Unfortunately the vast majority of gamers have not experienced either.  If  I went through the bullshit they've been through in these ganking, corpse camping, cookie cutter mmorpgs, I would hate pvp too.

Yes red bit fully agre with, Was also a CB & OB in wushu, but i stopped playing that not so much because of the PvP but the REALLY BAD localisation of the game... shame really.

Ok in AoW i wasn't as bad as Wow Quaz, but i think i was about 5 from 20 in terms of 1v1s, but still had fun, but again, not my primary option in game play...

This post is all my opinion, but I welcome debate on anything i have put, however, personal slander / name calling belongs in game :) were of course your welcome to call me names im often found lounging about in EvE online.
Use this code for 21days trial in eve online https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=d385aff2-794a-44a4-96f1-3967ccf6d720&action=buddy

  lizardbones

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

6/29/13 5:58:01 PM#491


Originally posted by maccarthur2004

Originally posted by Thorqemada  there will be no successfull FFA-PvP MMORPG in the west.
UO, L2 and EVE are proofs you're wrong.

 

Only  people that is only used to the pvp of themepark mmos or indie mmos  say that open pvp cant be successfull.




UO added Trammel and people flocked to it in droves. It's one of the complaints that people have had about the game in the past; that it allowed for PvP by choice rather than Always On PvP.

Eve is indeed Always On PvP, but most or at least half the players do not participate in the PvP, instead hanging around in high security space. It's not an issue of loss, they can insure their stuff, they just don't want the space combat. So while Eve is always on PvP, it's not exactly always on PvP the same way that Mortal Online or say, Darkfall is always on PvP. WoW's PvP servers have less safe space than Eve.

L2 is the only straight up PvP MMORPG in the list. It is successful though, as far as I know.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Thelric

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/06/11
Posts: 26

6/29/13 6:50:52 PM#492

That's not a bad question, it just doesn't have any one answer for me. Lets do away with the bunching into specific groups when it obscures the true reason behind the disparities. I personally like my PVP with goals and tend to avoid mediocre fighting systems. That is, unless it feels more like a game of chance, not like a prediction based on stats. An example which might make me avoid PVP would be a poorly implemented duel system along with a concrete mathematical level/gear system which some find comfort in measuring skill with. I've been there and done that. Games should not make it so that all is a well documented calculation. Players do not need to know everything at first glance and should feel like they don't know what's next in a challenge. At the least, take away the ability to see health bars and compare statistics so people do not get complacent. Make it so that nothing is set in stone and they're away from their happy zones.

 

If the game was well thought out and the PVP is an integral part which ties to the rest of the games or has some gains vs losses, cheers. Else, there's nothing to drink to and I begin to question the reason for me to participate. My PVP needs one or several unknown factors included along with rewards that can be gained or lost based on every action taken not by one player but several, not a in a simple equation plus time sync but a long thought out strategy. At the least, the fighting has to have a twist to make it exciting. None of that mathematical bulls dung of the few, but the many. Fighting needs to have some obscurity and life/death feel to it.

 

At the least, politics and something with weight behind it such as the flow of currency and/or resources, something we may loose or gain. If the game system doesn't have anything worth while like a complex political faction or economical system tied to the pvp, I try to do without it since its probably not new. As some have said, most of us don't dislike PVP, we've just had enough where it doesn't excite us anymore.  We're just past that stage in our gaming that we've seen a bit of everything and just want things to move forward, not backwards. PVP needs to evolve where we feel it's worth getting into.

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3478

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

6/29/13 7:46:44 PM#493


Originally posted by maccarthur2004

Originally posted by maplestone

Originally posted by maccarthur2004
I wil say without fear of being wrong that around 90% of the people that say open world ffa pvp cant be successful base their conclusions in the terrible OWpvp of themepark mmos, from where they "concludes" that a ffa pvp necessary will be worse. They dont know the mechanics that average pvp mmos (like L2 and AA) use to avoid mindless ganking and corpse camping.

And this is why you hate PvP?

It's the second or third time you answer my posts with nonsense content. Are you stalking me? Reported.

The title of the thread is:
"Please, tell me why you hate PVP so much. I just don't understand."

Every post you have made has not said one word why you hate PvP. maplestone has been trying, subtly, to tell you this. You just cannot catch his hints.

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

6/29/13 7:58:15 PM#494
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by maccarthur2004

Originally posted by Thorqemada  there will be no successfull FFA-PvP MMORPG in the west.
UO, L2 and EVE are proofs you're wrong.

 

 

Only  people that is only used to the pvp of themepark mmos or indie mmos  say that open pvp cant be successfull.




UO added Trammel and people flocked to it in droves. It's one of the complaints that people have had about the game in the past; that it allowed for PvP by choice rather than Always On PvP.

Eve is indeed Always On PvP, but most or at least half the players do not participate in the PvP, instead hanging around in high security space. It's not an issue of loss, they can insure their stuff, they just don't want the space combat. So while Eve is always on PvP, it's not exactly always on PvP the same way that Mortal Online or say, Darkfall is always on PvP. WoW's PvP servers have less safe space than Eve.

L2 is the only straight up PvP MMORPG in the list. It is successful though, as far as I know.

 

People have myopic remembrance of UO.PvP was a part of the game but was never the major focus,it was just one of dozens of things that you could be doing at any one time.It worked in UO because it was a much smaller community of like minded people and so even pre-trammel was self policed better than any game after except Eve.

Today with the sheer number of people the FFA PvP in UO would be a clusterfuck IMO.But who knows I may be wrong.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20587

6/29/13 9:33:02 PM#495
Originally posted by maccarthur2004
Originally posted by Thorqemada

 there will be no successfull FFA-PvP MMORPG in the west.

UO, L2 and EVE are proofs you're wrong.

 

Uh?UO & Eve are not that successful.

UO never get more than 300k subs. Eve spent almost a decade and get to only half a million. TOR, many considered a failure, hit 2M in a month.

 

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3478

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

6/29/13 10:23:20 PM#496


Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by maccarthur2004

Originally posted by Thorqemada
there will be no successfull FFA-PvP MMORPG in the west.

UO, L2 and EVE are proofs you're wrong.

Uh?UO & Eve are not that successful.

UO never get more than 300k subs. Eve spent almost a decade and get to only half a million. TOR, many considered a failure, hit 2M in a month.



And yet they are still around a decade or more later. SW:TOR almost collapsed before going F2P less than 1 year after release.

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  Tierless

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2118

joie de vivre

6/29/13 10:25:21 PM#497

It ruins the illusion that they are the uber hero of the entire game world when they get owned. It also snaps them back to who they might be IRL, that being not the best eva. I'm fine with it, I know Im not a great PVPer. I prefer to think of myself as a greatly annoying PVPer, a role that I embrace.

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2898

There... are... four... lights!

6/30/13 5:22:24 AM#498
Originally posted by Tierless

It ruins the illusion that they are the uber hero of the entire game world when they get owned. It also snaps them back to who they might be IRL, that being not the best eva. I'm fine with it, I know Im not a great PVPer. I prefer to think of myself as a greatly annoying PVPer, a role that I embrace.

Most people do things "IRL" that have much higher value than acting like an ass or a hero in a video game. One of those people you just insulted the real life of may be the doctor who will save your life someday. Or a veteran who saved your country.

Same for the guy you just ganked when he was already fighting three mobs, and then camped the body of... he's a real person behind the screen, and there's a good chance that he's doing something much more important in his real life than being an ass to others in a game.

Food for thoughts...

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  craftseeker

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/11/09
Posts: 650

6/30/13 5:32:15 AM#499
Originally posted by Tierless

 I prefer to think of myself as a greatly annoying PVPer, a role that I embrace.

Yep and there you have it folks.  The reason why I do not like PvP, the douche bag factor.

  kitarad

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 1393

6/30/13 6:12:57 AM#500
I think PvP brings out something mean and low in people not all mind you but it does do something to people who enjoy ruining others' playing time.

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