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News & Features Discussion  » [Dev Journal] General: Have MMOs Become Too Easy?

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391 posts found
  Atavax

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/07/09
Posts: 11

6/29/13 2:09:56 PM#221
Originally posted by Vidir
Originally posted by Rydeson
Originally posted by Atavax
Originally posted by Segun777
There is so much arrogance in this 'article' and the answer isn't a simple yes or no. Lets rather say that as a business gaming companies pander to their audience. Since a majority of gamers don't finish games, its hard to argue that games have gotten 'too easy' even though they have indeed gotten easier. In short, while games have gotten easier its the audience that is primarily driving the movement.
 
 

well, the problem is there aren't serious attempts at pandering to a slightly more hardcore audience. Its makes sense that a lot of companies design their game with the majority in mind. The problem is there aren't games made for the enthusiasts. The car industry has cars purely designed for people that only use cars to get from point A to B as well as cars for car enthusiasts.  The videogame industry designs every game for the casuals. Its sad how in many ways games are inferior to the ones made 10 plus years ago.  People can blame the rising cost of games, but the rising cost doesn't magically increase... If a small group of extremely skilled guys over a decade ago can make everquest, or quake, why can't a similarly small group of skilled individuals make another game pandering to the same type of players, without the flash or the scale needed to pander to casuals? 

Agreed.. Many of us have pointed this out before, but often falls on deaf ears.. It seems that every game dev wants to go after the McDonald numbers, and the only way to do that is sell the same junk.. There isn't enough market out there for everyone to own a Caddy or to put a 4 star steakhouse on every corner.. However, there is a market for an elite customer base, IF you find a group of competent gaming enthusiast willing to be a big fish in a little pond..  The cost of server space today is a fraction of what it was 10 years ago.. I would estimate that any small business gaming company could be profitable with 20,000 customers..  The trick is getting the right group together..

And this elit customer base you mention are willing to pay $5000 per month for playing? How else would the developers gain lots of cash from this small playerbase?

the same way they did 10 years ago? keeping costs down... The gaming population has drastically increased, which means the number of hardcore players has also increased. Which means there is a bigger market for hardcore games now then there ever has been. There is also a smaller supply of quality hardcore games to meet that demand than there used to be, its practically nonexistent.  A small group of devs should easily be able to be profitable designing games without completely pandering to casuals. 

  caremuchless

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/11
Posts: 594

Whether you believe you can or believe you cannot, you are right.

6/29/13 3:04:39 PM#222

 

GW2 as an example is more convenient and less bs.

 

The same people who played the first mmo's as kids, now have kids, jobs, /cough lives :P

  desik969

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/29/13
Posts: 11

6/29/13 3:13:11 PM#223
Originally posted by Vidir
Originally posted by Rydeson
Originally posted by Atavax
Originally posted by Segun777
....
 

....

Agreed.. Many of us have pointed this out before, but often falls on deaf ears.. It seems that every game dev wants to go after the McDonald numbers, and the only way to do that is sell the same junk.. There isn't enough market out there for everyone to own a Caddy or to put a 4 star steakhouse on every corner.. However, there is a market for an elite customer base, IF you find a group of competent gaming enthusiast willing to be a big fish in a little pond..  The cost of server space today is a fraction of what it was 10 years ago.. I would estimate that any small business gaming company could be profitable with 20,000 customers..  The trick is getting the right group together..

And this elite customer base you mention are willing to pay $5000 per month for playing? How else would the developers gain lots of cash from this small playerbase?

$5,000 x 20,000 users = $100,000,000 per month!   

ONE HUNDRED MILLION  --- PER MONTH!!

I doubt a company needs to gross 100 mil. per month to maintain profitablity, but it is an interesting attempt on your part at scaring away interest in the idea...

You know, for folks who can't do simple math in their heads and don't own a calculator.

  Nixeska

Novice Member

Joined: 4/04/13
Posts: 16

6/29/13 3:24:59 PM#224

MMOs were never hard. NEVER. You're insane if you actually think otherwise. Most games are fine as they are. Easy doesn't mean boring. If you like the game, you like it. You don't need to spend hours grinding materials for potions for that raid later in the day for the game to feel worthwhile.

I wanna know when people got it in their heads that games need to be hard. Where did fun go? A MMORPG can be as easy as it wants, just make it fun for God's sake.

  Alverant

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/12/07
Posts: 284

6/29/13 3:42:23 PM#225
In City of Heroes it took me 10 months of play to get a character to max level. In Star Trek Online it took less than half that of casual play. In Neverwinter I expect to reach in less of half of STO. MMOs used to be about long term commitments and rewarding work. Now it's like your character can pray to his/her god and get XP. The goal shifted from long term to short term to get money before players are distracted by the next shiny object.
  Grantanz

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/17/06
Posts: 1

6/29/13 3:57:54 PM#226

When I hit max level in an MMO, I go and make a new character. If MMOs weren't mostly about 'race to the endgame' I would be a lot happier. Having said that, "MMOs used to be about long term commitments and rewarding work"? Gosh, that sounds like a game I'd play to relax.

Give me story-rich leveling content with meaningful decisions, that can be done solo, and that you can experience differently on each new character. Give me meaningful character build differences - I love games where I can spend hours just designing builds.

Don't give me content that's gated by group size. The main reason I quit GW2 was that the last quest of my 'Personal Story', that up to then was completely soloable, was suddenly requiring a group of 5. I raided in WoW and spent about 1/4 of the time actually playing and rest waiting for people to show up/waiting for people to finish their drama/etc.

  Riqqy82

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/07/13
Posts: 22

6/29/13 5:33:30 PM#227
Man you need to be part of a better project than firefall, i bought the commanders package to help the game out, but i cant see that game making it for the clientele you think you are attracting. We want swords, boards, spells, stealth, tactics, strategy, communication on a massive scale, limited transportation, you see sir, you are right, they are too easy in almost every aspect i listed above. Also there is no penalty for playing bad.....this whole trying to make it so everyone can play is completey wrong and also an invalid argument, i mean ill buy that crap when they make it so amputees and blind folks can play too.

  luvbacon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/29/13
Posts: 4

6/29/13 5:58:16 PM#228

I've this argument for a long time now.  "MMOs are too easy!"  "WoW is easy mode".  I understand why they say this.  It's because the content you have access to when you first log in as a level one is incredibly easy.  The entire leveling process is incredibly easy.  Even the early endgame; dailies, heroics, scenarios, LFR, etc, are all incredibly easy.  Now start Normal mode raids.  Woah! Those are harder than anyhing you can find in Vanilla WoW short of maybe a couple bosses in Naxx.  Ok, but it's doable.  Now start Heroic Raids.  WoW!!! Those are much harder than anything in Vanilla WoW, hands down!  Try Brawlers guild.  There are some seriously challenging fights in there.  For real!  Try challenge mode dungeons.  They are ridiculously punishing.  No, no.  You cannot claim it is too easy unless you have tried the difficult content; Heroic Raids, Challenge Modes, Brawlers Guild (Past rank 7), and PvP has always been as challenging as the apponant makes it.  

WoW is not easymode.  You merely have to actually do the challenging content.  I can't speak for other MMOs, but that is the case for WoW.

And why should the leveling content be this amazingly well-crafted journey?  If it takes me even a month to get to max level (which it won't in ay modern MMO), and I play for the next year, I spend 11 of those 12 months at max level.  Why should they not put the most care into the endgame?  Their is a long list of failed MMOs who neglected endgame content.  By all means, make the same mistake.  To your own peril.

  Atavax

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/07/09
Posts: 11

6/29/13 6:08:38 PM#229
Firefall is "skill based combat" or shooter combat designed so any mmo player can complete it. So completely boring and easy content if you have average or above average skill. 
 
  Khebeln

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/29/04
Posts: 634

Leader and founder of the Excessum Gaming Community

6/29/13 6:17:50 PM#230
Originally posted by deamian
Time is valuable, lately everything is centered around that concept. I want another game like Everquest that steals away my entire evening to get progress, not a game that I progress through the whole game in one evening.

No thx, its waste of time to play a game that looks like it was made in stone age, and never make any proggress due to full loot mechanic


(Retired)- Anarchy Online/Ultima Online/DAoC/Horizonsz/EQ2/SWG/AC1&2/L2/SoR/WoW/TMO/Requiem/Atlantica Online/Manibogi/Rift+(SL)/Lol/Hon/SWTOR/Wakfu/Champions Online/GW/Lotr/CO/TcoS/Tabula Rasa/Meridian 59/Vanguard/Shadowbane/Fury/SotW/Dreamlords/HGL/RoM/DDO/FFXI/Aoc/Eve/Warhammer Online/Gw2/TSW/Tera/Defiance/STO/AoW/DE/Firefall/Darkfall/Neverwinter/PS2

  space-scum

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/09/05
Posts: 5

6/29/13 6:20:30 PM#231

Well written!

My first exposure to MMO's was Anarchy Online. They took a while before they started to make it quicker and easier to level and they had no quest line to follow.

I absolutely loved the world I found myself in. Loved the rivalry between Clan and Omni. Loved having to explore and sometimes enter an area  that I was nowhere near strong enough to survive.

I remember the thrill as I figured something out, or discovered a new area and how other players would let you discover these things, without blabbing in a global chat.  Anyone asking would only be helped via a tell.

Once things to ease leveling (DOJA CHIPS, Daily missions) and a few other features, what  some referred to as dumbing the game down, I moved in to other mmo's searching for what I had lost.

Despite trying many, many other games, none have come close to captivating me  as much.

I am holding hope that World of Darkness will be it.  There are still some mmorpgs I play and enjoy, but one day I am sure I will find what is missing.

 

  blohm86

Novice Member

Joined: 1/10/12
Posts: 47

6/29/13 6:30:17 PM#232

The game isnt easier, most games are just so repetative. The buttonmashing just isnt enough these days, how about actually making quests tricky, making people read the q´s for once?

 

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16411

6/29/13 6:38:50 PM#233
Originally posted by blohm86

The game isnt easier, most games are just so repetative. The buttonmashing just isnt enough these days, how about actually making quests tricky, making people read the q´s for once?

Uhm, yes they are. I died a lot more before maxing out a character in the old days and the only possible reasons for that is either am I a lot better now or the games are easier... So I tried out some pre 2000 single player games to test the theory, and I play in fact worse now. Heck, played some C-64 games I remember as easy and died more than I like to talk about.

Around the year 2000 the gaming community grow from people with special interests in computers to the average Joe and the games became a lot easier with that.

As an example, look on the Diablo IP. Each game have been a lot easier than the first.

Nowadays in MMOs the only times I die before maxing out is either when I get distracting by something IRL or when I do something suicidal.

I been playing computer games since 1984 and MMOs since 1996, they are easier now. 

  zasten

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/13
Posts: 287

6/29/13 6:40:06 PM#234
How can you say it is getting to easy, when they retard your level from 80 to 62 and leave the pve content at level 68! IMO this is NOT easy!!!
  jazz.be

Novice Member

Joined: 8/26/06
Posts: 780

6/29/13 6:41:09 PM#235
Originally posted by Xarko
Not necessarily easy, but they became SIMPLE.

It makes perfectly sense and I agree.

MMO's today have become linear objective style multiplayer action games.

There is no mental challenge

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16411

6/29/13 6:48:26 PM#236
Originally posted by DMKano

MMOs were always easy, today they just don't require lifetime commitments to get anything done.

We are living in an accelerated age, 40 hours to gain 1 level by grinding 100s of the same mob in one spot - ain't nobody got time for that!

I am looking for more fun and entertaining experience that takes less time. I don't want to spend 40+ hours a week in front of my PC playing some MMORPG that belongs in the late 1990s, I still play EQ1 and I played it since launch. EQ1 at launch was horrendously slow paced as far as XP, we just didn't know any different. I don't want to play a game like that again.

So if hard=time commitment, no thanks, I am done with that crap forever.

just my opinion after 15 years of online gaming.

I have to agree with the time consumption, but you still died a lot more in the old games.

Guildwars was hard at launch but still not time consuming, I wish they could make a few more games with that in thought.

As I see it does hard mean that you need to play well or die a lot, not that you need to play a week to gain a single level. Spawn camping was not hard even in the old days. MMOs needs to challenge their players to be fun, not just add more grind (even if there is room for a few new MMOs that requires long grind as well, but I don't have time myself for games like that anymore).

  patx6x

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/01/08
Posts: 7

6/29/13 6:48:27 PM#237
dam yeah mmo r ultra to easy no more fun now hope someday something world wide become real
  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16411

6/29/13 6:53:29 PM#238
Originally posted by zasten
How can you say it is getting to easy, when they retard your level from 80 to 62 and leave the pve content at level 68! IMO this is NOT easy!!!

And how often do you actually wipe then? 

The only thing that is hard today is PvP since there the difficulty depends on your opponent. 

I did however really like GW2 at the first beta weekend, it was actually challenging then but they made it easy after that. Hard is when you actually have to be alert or die as you play even if you just do open world stuff.

  Nonderyon

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/30/07
Posts: 170

6/29/13 7:02:39 PM#239

i don't realy care about easy or hard when i enjoy it, but its sad how unmature they are, when i see a promising one, they are sure get raged about naked body parts, or blood...etc. because "kids will play it too"...

So dark fantasy & true horror mmorpg hard to born... or never.

  DavisFlight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2388

6/29/13 7:23:49 PM#240
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by sindur
Play Darkfall Unholy Wars, its a game where you dont get hand held, you have to figure things out on your own or ask other people who is playing how to improve you skills.

Too bad the production quality of that game is abysmally bad and the whole game is just a gank fest instead of a sandbox MMO.

Don't confuse "hard" with "crappy"...

Except that it isn't... the lighting and sound, armor and environments in Darkfall is unmatched in most MMOs. Animations aren't great.

And ganking implies it is entirely senseless, which is not the case. It's all about politics.

 

Originally posted by DocBrody

The only MMOs which are left out there with a challenge are Secret World and EvE.

 

That´s about it

I wouldn't really call TSW an MMO...at all.

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