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General Discussion

General Discussion 

News & Features Discussion  » [Dev Journal] General: Have MMOs Become Too Easy?

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394 posts found

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/07/09
Posts: 11

6/28/13 10:17:58 PM#161
the videogame playerbase for any type of game is probably bigger now than it was 10 years ago. But instead of focusing on a single playerbase, like many games did back then, every developer seems to want to make their game appeal to as wide an audience as possible  and tries to make features fit that simply don't fit. This is especially true in MMOs where developers always want to cram a million things into their mmo. How about instead of every MMO having amazing story/questing, amazing pvp, amazing 5 mans, and amazing raids; we have individual games that only have 1 or 2 of each of those features?  You look at something like Warframe, and in a lot of ways it resembles MMO 5 man dungeons, but they made it faster paced, they made it shooter combat. They haven't tried to fit raids into it, they haven't tried to fit a pvp system into it, they haven't put questing into it. They kept it focused. In a lot of ways i think they're still struggling to define the game, but i think a lot of the appeal of the game is that it isn't trying to appeal to everyone. 

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/09
Posts: 15

Life's not fair is it?

6/28/13 10:30:08 PM#162

Veteran Paladin from Vanilla WoW sits on his steed. The steed he had to save money for and find componants for and actually fight for.

A new player comes a long and the mount is given to them freely...The veteran paladin dies a little more inside...


Novice Member

Joined: 7/18/07
Posts: 2

6/28/13 10:42:10 PM#163

i miss the 40 man raids from wow 

mmo's these days are just boring once you hit max level 

they leave little to no reason to join a guild  *provided you can even find a decent guild and not just some 1 mass inviting every thing that moves *

leveling has been dumbed down way to much 

most mmos i have played recently  have felt more of a single player game than a mmo 



Novice Member

Joined: 4/14/10
Posts: 473

6/28/13 10:47:30 PM#164
I am very comfortable calling it a fact that MMO's have become much easier.....just one problem easier games mean more casuals, more casuals equal more money, which is why as time goes on i will be playing less and less AAA MMO's . GW2 had a lot of features i found interesting but leveling is so easy it makes it feel meaningless to me.

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/18/07
Posts: 2364

6/28/13 10:59:02 PM#165
They always were easy

"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor


Advanced Member

Joined: 12/17/06
Posts: 203

6/28/13 11:17:47 PM#166

Nice try to (spam) advertise your own game. Almost everywhere content is too easy, "but we at Firefly...". Thanks for ad, I do hope you paid fopr this.

Question "game has become too easy?" is pointless. it's like - "what cookie is the best?". There are no easy or hard games at all and you know it. It's gamer that considers game to be hard or easy. Second point is: some people do not want over-complicated content. What if I want just to ride, fight that 10 rats (just in the name of fighting 10 rats because I kill them all with one AoE attack) or just wander in landscape I enjoy? And if there are many users who want that - companies naturally do non-problematic content. It's pretty easy: if people demand triple fishburgers instead of Big Macs, offer them triple fishburgers.

And - OP has to wonder - different players have different opinions. One player would demand a very slow progression. "Not more than 10 xp per day!" - he will demand - "any quest should be 100 players only!". it's ok, since it fits the player. Another will demand quikc progression. "No less than 10 levels per day!" - he will demand - "only soloable quests!". It's ok, since it fits the player.

So - what's wrong with people having different opinions and paying for them?


Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/26/09
Posts: 769

6/28/13 11:22:16 PM#167

In our own game, Firefall, we try to focus on the journey, not the end. We work hard to create a beautiful world, and you never out-level a zone since the dynamic events scale to players. Our quests and missions are dynamic, letting us put more work into making the event fun to do and letting you do it as often as you like and because you are challenged by them. 

Same I heard from Arena Net. So, I had fun leveling toon and left game after 3 months, cause there is no end game. I guess your Firefall is same, fun for 2-3 months and bye. About Wow, there where your game is "challenging and fun" Wow is easy, but why you don't put something about Wow endgame in text? Dungeons are easy too, but what about Heroic Raids? 

Thanks for advertising your game and describing, now I know on which game to not waste hdd space.




Elite Member

Joined: 5/24/10
Posts: 1630

6/28/13 11:50:15 PM#168

I literally came all over myself when i read, from the mouth of the lead designer of the game i blame for ruining the MMO genre, that even HE realizes that they fucking killed it.

Validation, OH YES.  Damn it feels good.

I still laugh at the people who cite vanilla wow as some sort of bar for difficulty, etc.  I chose NOT to play WOW BECAUSE i read that you could reach max level in roughly 200-250 hours of play.  As an EverQuest Veteran that was a joke.  Hell, i spent 40 hours just getting through level 51, yes, 1 level.  And you know what, hearing that ding was more satisfying than ANYTHING i did in WOW. Yes, i ultimately played it because SOE botched the release of EQ2 so bad.  So, i came to WOW about 8 months prior to release of BC, and here is the sad part:  In 3 months i went from brand new fresh character, to the only thing i needed from MC for my warlock was the choker of the firelord.  That was working full time, putting at best 25 hours a week into the game and realistically more like 18-20/week.


"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

- Friedrich Nietzsche


Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3630

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

6/28/13 11:51:50 PM#169

Grummz, as much as "casual" has become a swear word to some, are you forgetting how Blizzard made *Billions* by expanding their appeal to the "casual" market?  That expanded market is also available to other companies now.

I keep hearing people talk about "challenging" this, that and the other.  Upping the difficulty of a given game, doesn't mean that the *fun* of the game has increased.  Far too many people forget the difference between challenging, and frustrating.  Challenging game play *can* be entertaining.  But when one crosses over the line to frustrating, its a demonstration of poor design, and poor targeting.

Its also true that those who worship at the shrine of the Holy Skill, all too often forget that not everyone is blessed with the mad skillz that some take for granted.   That lapse of insight, can be very expensive in terms of the profits to be made.  Which given what major games cost to produce, is a serious consideration.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/27/04
Posts: 2993

C64 Cracked Warez Intros FTW

6/28/13 11:52:49 PM#170

MMORPG are definitely more simplified simply because the software gaming companies want to reach out to a bigger audience and not to a niche crowd of players anymore.

That's why we got so much of the same ole same ole mmorpgs & fps games with a different skin.

Go back about a decade in mmorpg's and thats where the real gold was in gaming, not this stuff there shoveling us today.

Anarchy Online, Eve Online, Star Wars Galaxies, Ultima Online, Uncharted Waters Online, Shadowbane, Asheron's Call, Everquest, Dark Age of Camelot and need I go on make these mmo games we got today way too simple. The only 2 that comes to my mind in being of a big learner curve today would be, Age of Wushu and Perpetuum.


Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3630

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

6/28/13 11:54:21 PM#171
Originally posted by xAPOCx
Originally posted by Xarko
Not necessarily easy, but they became SIMPLE.

I dont see the difference

Chess is a *simple* game.  Does that make it an *easy* game?


Elite Member

Joined: 2/17/05
Posts: 3033

First came pride, then envy.

6/29/13 12:05:56 AM#172
It all comes down to convenience, frustration, satisfaction, and challenge.  Trying to balance all these in an MMO is very difficult.

Novice Member

Joined: 2/07/04
Posts: 91

6/29/13 12:09:59 AM#173

Yes!! Exactly the word I was trying to spread on the forums a while ago.

Agreed in every way.


Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/07
Posts: 123

6/29/13 12:12:28 AM#174
Only veteran sanbox players can give an answer worth paying attention to. The rest are WoW players that never had an outside experience. Most think they do but the OP should consider that when typing his thoughts.  

Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2604

6/29/13 12:25:29 AM#175
Originally posted by david361107

I've been talking about his ever sense WOW went easy mode.

WoW has been easy mode since day 1. When it launched it was the simplest, most casual MMO on the market.


And yes, without a doubt, it set the trend that killed a genre, as said in the article.


Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2604

6/29/13 12:30:29 AM#176
Originally posted by ezduzit
Only veteran sanbox players can give an answer worth paying attention to. The rest are WoW players that never had an outside experience. Most think they do but the OP should consider that when typing his thoughts.  

That's the problem I constantly run into when talking to people about MMOs. Most simply do not have the experience to debate things.


Like the folks that say "MMOs could never work without instances!" and yet, they've never played an MMO without one. Most of these folks reference dark tales of MMOs past with "camping" and "griefing" but they can't name the game or why these things existed.

There are far fewer players who actually saw the full evolution of the genre the way the veterans did, and can give an accurate and deep debate on the subject.


As one who was here from the start, MMOs have without a doubt gotten worse over time.


Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/31/12
Posts: 666

6/29/13 12:32:13 AM#177

"Our quests and missions are dynamic, letting us put more work into making the event fun to do and letting you do it as often as you like and because you are challenged by them."



This is not what is happening in Firefall.  AT ALL. Your ARES Missions are on a ridiculously repetitive loop and there isn't a single mechanic to them or the enemy npcs.  They're so easy a caveman can do them and your teams only response has been to increase HP, damage, and  the tracking of bots. Your communities response has been to have bigger zergs and bumrush through your content. It's just like Guild Wars 2 dynamic events but much more poorly executed.



Firefall really needs to go back to the drawing board in that respect. Go play some Nightmare instances in The Secret World or play Dark Souls or something.



Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/23/05
Posts: 1046

6/29/13 1:08:07 AM#178
Easy & Simple ...

Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!


Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/12/09
Posts: 1106

6/29/13 1:21:15 AM#179
Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by xAPOCx
Originally posted by Xarko
Not necessarily easy, but they became SIMPLE.

I dont see the difference

Chess is a *simple* game.  Does that make it an *easy* game?

Chess isnt a simple game, you have so many different moves u can do, it pieces does somthign different and so on. In MMO of today u press 1 button and repeat and u win.


Novice Member

Joined: 9/26/11
Posts: 322

6/29/13 1:34:35 AM#180
Originally posted by 1vald2
Originally posted by Cymdai

The short answer: Yes, absolutely.

A brief explanation (as I'm at work): There's no "checkpoints" anymore, because player skill isn't a factor. When I say checkpoints, I mean a point in the game where your ability as an individual/group need to be tested. That does NOT mean what every modern MMO acts like it means: a blatant gut-check on your gear. Gear, in fact, should have nearly nothing to do with it. Rather, it should be a tooth-and-nail fight that requires a lot of skill, and a little luck. You should be able to lose to more than "Whoops, I pulled 3 mobs instead of 2!"

The only game that had anything like this in recent memory was FFXI. The Genkai quests were brutal, but in order to keep leveling, you had to complete them; 4 times! Then, if you wanted to keep leveling to the level cap, you had to defeat Maat; a vicious, 1 v 1 mirror match of your class vs. a substantially stronger foe. It was mind-numbing, but when you did FINALLY beat Maat, it was like "That... was amazing." It ensured you understood your class and it's limitations to the fullest.

More importantly, pain-staking difficulty builds community. When you create prbolems that people can't solve by themselves, guess what they do? They interact. You can see this even in the most casual MMO's out there. "Hey, I need to kill this boss... help me out?" "Sure." You see it happen all the time. The problem is, once said boss is dead, there's absolutely no reason to continue grouping, so people don't. That relative ease for the 98% of the game conditions the solo mentality, whereas if it was 98% challenging content, group play would be more beneficial.

I wish every developer would read this quoted post, then games wouldn't be so damn boring.



FFXI was brilliant. At that time MMO's were supposed to be the next big thing, so much more potential for the genre. I am literally stunned at what MMO's have become.

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