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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Demise of the MMO Communities

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148 posts found
  Torgrim

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/15/05
Posts: 2155

6/28/13 3:12:46 PM#61
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Torgrim
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by emistz

Why are people (or at least seem to be) less likely to interact with others in MMOs as opposed to say 10 years ago when you couldn't run past someone without having some sort of interaction.  In today's world it is as if there is an army of bots running around as opposed to live human beings.

There are interactions today. Look at others gearscore is a form of interaction.

Sure people don't like to chat, or socialize, or even group. But you can't inspect others gearscore and show off your own without others around.

 

 

That was one helluva thin straw argument lol

Why? Do you deny that gearscore (or similar system) is popular? Do you deny people like to show off?

Now tell me, do you need people around to show off?

 I deny your thinking.

If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19849

6/28/13 3:14:27 PM#62
Originally posted by Torgrim
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Torgrim
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by emistz

Why are people (or at least seem to be) less likely to interact with others in MMOs as opposed to say 10 years ago when you couldn't run past someone without having some sort of interaction.  In today's world it is as if there is an army of bots running around as opposed to live human beings.

There are interactions today. Look at others gearscore is a form of interaction.

Sure people don't like to chat, or socialize, or even group. But you can't inspect others gearscore and show off your own without others around.

 

 

That was one helluva thin straw argument lol

Why? Do you deny that gearscore (or similar system) is popular? Do you deny people like to show off?

Now tell me, do you need people around to show off?

 I deny your thinking.

LOl ... you can't find an argument to counter mine .. so resort to empty rhetoric?

 

  Cecropia

Gumshoe

Joined: 3/06/09
Posts: 3275

Poacher killer.

6/28/13 3:31:12 PM#63
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal

I would say that it's not even MMORPG's.  There is a self center and entitled attitude that's grown as social media has grown.   People view themselves as stars in their own lives.  

I've been observing this change myself over the past decade. People have become painfully self-involved and beyond annoying, and this self-centered and ridiculous entitled attitude is becoming inescapable. Fuck social media and the legion of people that cannot get over themselves.

I will not remember this period of time in any positive light whatsoever. Hey, I guess it's only natural that every person has to endure a shitty decade or two throughout their lifetime.

"Chuck's a good fighter but he's a UFC fighter... this is Pride." - Quinton Rampage Jackson
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19849

6/28/13 3:36:18 PM#64
Originally posted by Cecropia
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal

I would say that it's not even MMORPG's.  There is a self center and entitled attitude that's grown as social media has grown.   People view themselves as stars in their own lives.  

I've been observing this change myself over the past decade. People have become painfully self-involved and beyond annoying, and this self-centered and ridiculous entitled attitude is becoming inescapable. Fuck social media and the legion of people that cannot get over themselves.

I will not remember this period of time in any positive light whatsoever. Hey, I guess it's only natural that every person has to endure a shitty decade or two throughout their lifetime.

Are you doing that same? Do you think you are entitled to others changing their attitude for you?

Personally i will live and let live. Whatever their attitudes are .. is fine with me. Just that i won't play with people i don't like, and there is always entertainment to be had.

  Four0Six

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/18/11
Posts: 1098

6/28/13 3:39:36 PM#65
Originally posted by emistz

Is it just me or has there been a consistent decline in the community feel in MMOs since about 10 years ago?

Every time I log into pretty much any MMO I can see less and less community work and more and more individual people doing their own thing.  Basically people soloing the game, along with a thousand other people who are also soloing the game in the same server. 

I am not really sure what benefit you get from an MMO without group play, except of course I guess if it was a single player game you couldn't brag to others about your latest piece of epeen gear.

I remember the days when people would group just for the fun of doing things together.  These days unless there is a specific incentive to do so most people keep to themselves.

What do you think has brought this about?  A change in game culture? A change in culture as a whole where we have become more and more antisocial as a society? Or something else?

The masses cried out for "solo-friendly"...They got what they wanted...I feel there should have been more broad based game design, so those of us that want group play have our games, those of us that don't have other games...Yet in this time of "equality" that wouldn't be viewed as "fair" to those who don't want group play...In fact I have heard that argument many times in reference to this topic.. I wonder how Darwin would have viewed evolution, if he had attempted to view it through the "eyes of fairness" that society demands these days?

  Vermillion_Raventhal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/01/04
Posts: 1028

6/28/13 3:42:12 PM#66
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal

I would say that it's not even MMORPG's.  There is a self center and entitled attitude that's grown as social media has grown.   People view themselves as stars in their own lives.  

 

as opposed to what? People view unknown random people on the internet as stars in their own lives?

Essentially social media gives you an audience and a good number of  people act like their a fan base to promote their lives as a brand name they can't do in the real world.  A sense of entitlement, superiority, self centeredness that arises from it.  But I don't really think going into the social ramifications of social media is the point of this thread.

  Wighty

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/10/08
Posts: 586

6/28/13 3:48:12 PM#67

You can thank all the "social" and "Convenience" elements of games like Auction houses, Group finders, automatic teleports to queues...

 

I am not saying "the old way is better"  But people will join a group via tool... blast though the content, then drop group without saying so much as a "Hello" to anyone throughout the entire scenario.

 

Moderns guild mentality is also to blame... Guilds now seem to be replaced with spam heavy "gaming communities" Join "My Guild" which has 1000 players that spans across 20 games and no one knows one another they just chat in TS, or mumble about bullshit.

 

Bottom line is if community is ever going to come back it starts with the players wanting to put all the convenience aside and actually seek out people to interact with and develop friendships and trust with. This was a key part of classic MMO's which have now been replaced with a bunch of drones that have no interest in exploration or interaction.. they just want to blast through content "to win" then move on to the next game and bitch that the former game "had no content"

What are your other Hobbies?

Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...

  Vermillion_Raventhal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/01/04
Posts: 1028

6/28/13 3:52:42 PM#68
Originally posted by Wighty

You can thank all the "social" and "Convenience" elements of games like Auction houses, Group finders, automatic teleports to queues...

 

I am not saying "the old way is better"  But people will join a group via tool... blast though the content, then drop group without saying so much as a "Hello" to anyone throughout the entire scenario.

 

Moderns guild mentality is also to blame... Guilds now seem to be replaced with spam heavy "gaming communities" Join "My Guild" which has 1000 players that spans across 20 games and no one knows one another they just chat in TS, or mumble about bullshit.

 

Bottom line is if community is ever going to come back it starts with the players wanting to put all the convenience aside and actually seek out people to interact with and develop friendships and trust with. This was a key part of classic MMO's which have now been replaced with a bunch of drones that have no interest in exploration or interaction.. they just want to blast through content "to win" then move on to the next game and bitch that the former game "had no content"

 

UO was far more social and it had no global chat.  That tells you a lot.  

  Arclan

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/29/07
Posts: 1374

"Ideas are worthless. The only currency that holds any weight is the ability and drive to execute."

6/28/13 3:53:00 PM#69


Originally posted by Cecropia

Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal I would say that it's not even MMORPG's.  There is a self center and entitled attitude that's grown as social media has grown.   People view themselves as stars in their own lives.  
I've been observing this change myself over the past decade. People have become painfully self-involved and beyond annoying, and this self-centered and ridiculous entitled attitude is becoming inescapable. Fuck social media and the legion of people that cannot get over themselves.

I will not remember this period of time in any positive light whatsoever. Hey, I guess it's only natural that every person has to endure a shitty decade or two throughout their lifetime.


QFT

Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
video game company layoffs are twice the national average.

  NaughtyP

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 795

6/28/13 4:18:59 PM#70
Originally posted by Cecropia
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal

I would say that it's not even MMORPG's.  There is a self center and entitled attitude that's grown as social media has grown.   People view themselves as stars in their own lives.  

I've been observing this change myself over the past decade. People have become painfully self-involved and beyond annoying, and this self-centered and ridiculous entitled attitude is becoming inescapable. Fuck social media and the legion of people that cannot get over themselves.

I will not remember this period of time in any positive light whatsoever. Hey, I guess it's only natural that every person has to endure a shitty decade or two throughout their lifetime.

This just hits home way too much. I'm going to go back to pretending life is butterflies, cotton candy, and angel farts now...

Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

  Cecropia

Gumshoe

Joined: 3/06/09
Posts: 3275

Poacher killer.

6/28/13 4:20:19 PM#71
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Cecropia
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal

I would say that it's not even MMORPG's.  There is a self center and entitled attitude that's grown as social media has grown.   People view themselves as stars in their own lives.  

I've been observing this change myself over the past decade. People have become painfully self-involved and beyond annoying, and this self-centered and ridiculous entitled attitude is becoming inescapable. Fuck social media and the legion of people that cannot get over themselves.

I will not remember this period of time in any positive light whatsoever. Hey, I guess it's only natural that every person has to endure a shitty decade or two throughout their lifetime.

Are you doing that same? Do you think you are entitled to others changing their attitude for you?

Personally i will live and let live. Whatever their attitudes are .. is fine with me. Just that i won't play with people i don't like, and there is always entertainment to be had.

No, Narius, I'm not looking to change the world; I'm merely making a comment on how I view things. This is an internet forum, after all.

Man, you're really starting to reach with some of these posts.

"Chuck's a good fighter but he's a UFC fighter... this is Pride." - Quinton Rampage Jackson
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  Rusque

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/08/10
Posts: 1724

6/28/13 4:43:29 PM#72

Weird, I can never remember those social times. Maybe it's because I've always kept to myself for the most part outside of communicating intentions for game play purposes.

I have no interest in how your day is, how much weed you've smoked, how many beers you've drank, which politician you currently hate, and how tired you are. You're not interesting, I'm not interesting - which happens to be why I don't care to burden you with what I'm up to.

In fact, I'm having a difficult time remembering a single time I've seen a conversation that was anything but utterly vapid. Once in a while I'll chat to someone about game mechanics or class abilities (I'm especially helpful towards new players in whispers) but outside of that what do you honestly have to say?

  Perjure

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/10/06
Posts: 173

6/28/13 4:59:52 PM#73
WOW - Gear Score - a New Generation(s) to gaming. 
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19849

6/28/13 8:55:15 PM#74
Originally posted by Wighty

You can thank all the "social" and "Convenience" elements of games like Auction houses, Group finders, automatic teleports to queues...

 

Bottom line is if community is ever going to come back it starts with the players wanting to put all the convenience aside and actually seek out people to interact with and develop friendships and trust with. This was a key part of classic MMO's which have now been replaced with a bunch of drones that have no interest in exploration or interaction.. they just want to blast through content "to win" then move on to the next game and bitch that the former game "had no content"

Yeh, i thank those features everyday. Finally i can actually play a game, then do chores in a world.

I play games for fun, not to "develop freindship and trust". I have enough of that in RL. You are right, i have no interests in socializing in a MMO.

And why do i play MMOs? To finish the fun content, and move on, of course.

  Morrowbreeze

Novice Member

Joined: 9/04/10
Posts: 126

6/29/13 10:06:52 AM#75
Regarding community in MMOs in general on the decline, I offer evidence to the contrary on my thread posted June 29.  "Something fun to do in July on a certain MMO".
  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2441

World > Quest Progression

6/29/13 11:54:46 AM#76
I lean on the game design for the cause. People first and foremost play a game according to the rules laid out and also take the path of least resistance. A player can solo game content in most MMOs. Can they group or socialize at the same time? Sure, but it takes more time and effort since a lot of the progression is designed for solo play.

Even a lot of the "group content" is solo when you think about it. I click a button, wait for an automated system to make other players and a 20 minute dungeon appear. I don't have to say anything, I don't even have to be good as long as I don't suck enough to have a kick vote initiated. That's the main problem, I as a player really don't matter in most casual based games. Everyone is in thier own bubble.

Of course you CAN socialize it's just not part of the progress anymore. No biggy though, as a optimist I see many options coming that may bring importance back to MMOs, if not I'll just gravitate to the ones that do the most.
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19849

6/29/13 12:40:33 PM#77
Originally posted by Aelious
I lean on the game design for the cause. People first and foremost play a game according to the rules laid out and also take the path of least resistance. A player can solo game content in most MMOs. Can they group or socialize at the same time? Sure, but it takes more time and effort since a lot of the progression is designed for solo play.

 

If "not social" is path of least resistance, then people don't like socialization enough to warrant its importance in a MMO.

I don't see anyone skipping out combat. "least resistance" is just another way of saying what people prefers.

  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2441

World > Quest Progression

6/29/13 1:11:26 PM#78
It may not be that people don't want to socialize, it's that the game design makes it a burden to do so. It may also be that the larger majority like the more anti-social casual games, which I find highly amusing. The reality is that interaction with a games community can raise the likelihood that a player will stay. I look forward to the future MMOs that embrace making social interaction more important.
  Arclan

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/29/07
Posts: 1374

"Ideas are worthless. The only currency that holds any weight is the ability and drive to execute."

6/29/13 1:28:27 PM#79


Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Aelious I lean on the game design for the cause. People first and foremost play a game according to the rules laid out and also take the path of least resistance. A player can solo game content in most MMOs. Can they group or socialize at the same time? Sure, but it takes more time and effort since a lot of the progression is designed for solo play.
If "not social" is path of least resistance, then people don't like socialization enough to warrant its importance in a MMO.

I don't see anyone skipping out combat. "least resistance" is just another way of saying what people prefers.



Wrong. It isn't that socialization is unimportant. It is that it involves risk. You are taking a risk any time you say "hey how's it going" to a stranger. They might be rude, they might ignore you. If a game doesn't require cooperation, it makes it that much easier to not take that risk.

Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
video game company layoffs are twice the national average.

  Vermillion_Raventhal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/01/04
Posts: 1028

6/29/13 5:24:47 PM#80
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Wighty

You can thank all the "social" and "Convenience" elements of games like Auction houses, Group finders, automatic teleports to queues...

 

Bottom line is if community is ever going to come back it starts with the players wanting to put all the convenience aside and actually seek out people to interact with and develop friendships and trust with. This was a key part of classic MMO's which have now been replaced with a bunch of drones that have no interest in exploration or interaction.. they just want to blast through content "to win" then move on to the next game and bitch that the former game "had no content"

Yeh, i thank those features everyday. Finally i can actually play a game, then do chores in a world.

I play games for fun, not to "develop freindship and trust". I have enough of that in RL. You are right, i have no interests in socializing in a MMO.

And why do i play MMOs? To finish the fun content, and move on, of course.

Lol, that's like saying that I shouldn't want cooperation on a basketball team because I have a chore at work.

 

The problem is that MMORPG's without design around community are pointless.  Why play with thousands if you don't need to interact?  Just as well make a single player game.  

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