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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Guild Wars 2 is a success no matter how you feel about it.

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251 posts found
  Torgrim

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/15/05
Posts: 2155

 
OP  6/28/13 11:26:15 AM#121
Originally posted by kjempff
Originally posted by Torgrim

Lets face it GW2 is the rare gem that manage to break the WOW mold and made it B2P with monthly updates far more worthy than the traditional pay to use/sub model.

Yes I know some people dont enjoy GW2 and thats perfectly fine thats just human nature, we all can't enjoy the same thing that would be absurb, but you cant say GW2 i not a success in MMORPG industry.

Is GW2 success such a bad thing in grand scheme of it all?

I dont think so, GW2 made a dent that WoW clones are not the absolute in MMO there are rooms for changes and improvements. 

I must be thinking about games in different ways than You Gw2 lovers. The Gw2 I played did not break the WoW mold at all, it was WoW taken to the next level, more WoW than WoW will ever be. Maybe I don't put as much into specific features but more to the overall feel of the game, and if the WoW I left for good was the defintion of Themepark, Gw2 just took this definition and doubled up. As much as I like alot of the technical features in Gw2, as a whole the game feels hollow to me. 

I would have loved to see another kind of game in that beatiful world and much better uses of all those nice mechanics. With that in mind it has failed to be something for me, but it surely is a success to others. I think Gw2 presented some interesting technical ideas, but I hope those who copy these will not copy the formula, which a continuation of the last 10 years Themepark trend (aka WoW cloning).

 

I stopped reading right there no point in arguing with you with that kind of statement.

If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

6/28/13 11:30:43 AM#122

Clearly, some people make it a life mission to go after specific games. But such has always been the case.

Yet without Defenders to combat, they would wither away in frustration. All a part of the same dance.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Siug

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/02/12
Posts: 994

6/28/13 11:35:26 AM#123
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
I'm always amused when people say GW2 doesn't have "meaningful crafting", since it's basically the only theme park MMORPG where you can craft the best gear of the game and also aren't required to raid with an army of other people to do so.

Yup, it does not have meaningful crafting. Just make sure you have crap you need and press button to craft it. Even Lotro had better crafting. Seen worse than GW2 but GW2 crafting is still bloody brainless.

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

6/28/13 11:57:11 AM#124
Originally posted by Piiritus
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
I'm always amused when people say GW2 doesn't have "meaningful crafting", since it's basically the only theme park MMORPG where you can craft the best gear of the game and also aren't required to raid with an army of other people to do so.

Yup, it does not have meaningful crafting. Just make sure you have crap you need and press button to craft it. Even Lotro had better crafting. Seen worse than GW2 but GW2 crafting is still bloody brainless.

 

You're going to have to share what definition of "meaningful" you're using then. I have 400 tailoring, 400 jewelry making, 400 cooking, 400 artificing... I can fully equip my clothies with new exotics whenever I choose. I didn't even have to make 500 pieces o' crap along the way to get there. To me, that's meaningful crafting. So please, tell us what you think "meaningful" is.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  botrytis

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2532

6/28/13 11:59:50 AM#125
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by Piiritus
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
I'm always amused when people say GW2 doesn't have "meaningful crafting", since it's basically the only theme park MMORPG where you can craft the best gear of the game and also aren't required to raid with an army of other people to do so.

Yup, it does not have meaningful crafting. Just make sure you have crap you need and press button to craft it. Even Lotro had better crafting. Seen worse than GW2 but GW2 crafting is still bloody brainless.

 

You're going to have to share what definition of "meaningful" you're using then. I have 400 tailoring, 400 jewelry making, 400 cooking, 400 artificing... I can fully equip my clothies with new exotics whenever I choose. I didn't even have to make 500 pieces o' crap along the way to get there. To me, that's meaningful crafting. So please, tell us what you think "meaningful" is.

I agree here - crafting in LOTRO was really I have to make all this junk? that is not good crafting - please find a better example....

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  Ramonski7

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 2696

"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something."

6/28/13 12:01:29 PM#126
Originally posted by Torgrim

Lets face it GW2 is the rare gem that manage to break the WOW mold and made it B2P with monthly updates far more worthy than the traditional pay to use/sub model.

Yes I know some people dont enjoy GW2 and thats perfectly fine thats just human nature, we all can't enjoy the same thing that would be absurb, but you cant say GW2 i not a success in MMORPG industry.

Is GW2 success such a bad thing in grand scheme of it all?

I dont think so, GW2 made a dent that WoW clones are not the absolute in MMO there are rooms for changes and improvements.

 

Success compared to what? Everything that came before it? Or everything that came after it? In either case an example can be named where it had yet to surpass, yet alone equal that example. Are you measuring box sales or retention rate? Because again, in either of those cases, an example can be given where when compared to GW2's predecessor, the count for box sales is too early to call and retention is a poor measurement when it comes to subless mmorpgs.

 

Personally I judge it on the merit of personal satisfaction. What it a success for me? As oppose to was it a success for all of you. This is the only type of success that can be verified without getting direct answers from ArenaNET themselves. So for me GW2 was a minor success when I compare my personal satisfaction of it against something like Neverwinter. The saving grace for GW2 is that it requires no commitment. Neither monetary or time wise. Neverwinter still manages to get me to log in every 24 hours though, even if it's only to pray and receive my daily coins. Cannot say the same for GW2. Hmmm now that I think about it, would you really consider that a success?


"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

6/28/13 12:05:49 PM#127
Originally posted by Ramonski7

Personally I judge it on the merit of personal satisfaction. What it a success for me? As oppose to was it a success for all of you. This is the only type of success that can be verified without getting direct answers from ArenaNET themselves. So for me GW2 was a minor success when I compare my personal satisfaction of it against something like Neverwinter. The saving grace for GW2 is that it requires no commitment. Neither monetary or time wise. Neverwinter still manages to get me to log in every 24 hours though, even if it's only to pray and receive my daily coins. Cannot say the same for GW2. Hmmm now that I think about it, would you really consider that a success?

 

If you wish, you can log in daily for your dailies for laurels to use for ascended items, so that's comparable I suppose. But I don't know of anyone that logs in only for that... at least with my guild it's to get into WvW, do guild events, have drunk naked PvP nights, things of that nature. We've about 200 active members in our guild so it's easy to see success in the game from our perspective.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  User Deleted
6/28/13 12:18:01 PM#128
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Randayn
I have to disagree.  I believe its a monumental failure for the MMORPG enthusiast.   It sets a tone that will eventually be the death of the real MMORPG.

Everyone has his own definition of "real MMORPG".

To me, GW2 is closer to the original pioneers not based on EQ cloning (UO and AC1) than any other game released since November 2, 1999.

A true mmo >> RP << g is not about repeating dungeons to farm gear. It's about a living changing world, exploration, adventure. Are we players, or are we hamsters on a wheel?

a key component in any MMORPG is progression...GW2 lacks this all around.   I also think that the story in GW2 could fly in a platformer game for pre-teens, but not in an MMORPG.  

 

Changing world - Everytime I went to a new zone I felt like I was doing the same things I had just done in the zone prior

Exploration - Everytime I went to a new zone I felt like I was in the same atmosphere but different setting....didnt really lead to me feeling as though i was "exploring"

Adventure - Again, it felt like I was doing repeatable quests over and over.  Add to that Dungeons that appeared to be half-assed together without little care or attention and you have no reason to seek out GW2's "adventure".

 

This game was purposely made to appeal to the "pop" culture of gamers...not necessarily MMORPG gamers.  

BTW, this is coming from a person that started my time in MMO's playing Anarchy Online.  The MMO I consider to be the best I've ever played.

  botrytis

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2532

6/28/13 12:18:32 PM#129
Originally posted by Ramonski7
Originally posted by Torgrim

Lets face it GW2 is the rare gem that manage to break the WOW mold and made it B2P with monthly updates far more worthy than the traditional pay to use/sub model.

Yes I know some people dont enjoy GW2 and thats perfectly fine thats just human nature, we all can't enjoy the same thing that would be absurb, but you cant say GW2 i not a success in MMORPG industry.

Is GW2 success such a bad thing in grand scheme of it all?

I dont think so, GW2 made a dent that WoW clones are not the absolute in MMO there are rooms for changes and improvements.

 

Success compared to what? Everything that came before it? Or everything that came after it? In either case an example can be named where it had yet to surpass, yet alone equal that example. Are you measuring box sales or retention rate? Because again, in either of those cases, an example can be given where when compared to GW2's predecessor, the count for box sales is too early to call and retention is a poor measurement when it comes to subless mmorpgs.

 

Personally I judge it on the merit of personal satisfaction. What it a success for me? As oppose to was it a success for all of you. This is the only type of success that can be verified without getting direct answers from ArenaNET themselves. So for me GW2 was a minor success when I compare my personal satisfaction of it against something like Neverwinter. The saving grace for GW2 is that it requires no commitment. Neither monetary or time wise. Neverwinter still manages to get me to log in every 24 hours though, even if it's only to pray and receive my daily coins. Cannot say the same for GW2. Hmmm now that I think about it, would you really consider that a success?

For now - what will Neverwinter be when the game is 6 months old? You are comparing games of different ages. I played Neverwinter and found it so mediocre and the mechanics were terrible. To each his own.

 

One person does not make a game a success, many do. You are only one person.

 

*push tongue firmly into cheek* For that matter, any game that pisses the majority of people on this board off, I consider it a success. *remove tongue from cheek*

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2784

There... are... four... lights!

6/28/13 12:21:07 PM#130
Originally posted by Randayn
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Randayn
I have to disagree.  I believe its a monumental failure for the MMORPG enthusiast.   It sets a tone that will eventually be the death of the real MMORPG.

Everyone has his own definition of "real MMORPG".

To me, GW2 is closer to the original pioneers not based on EQ cloning (UO and AC1) than any other game released since November 2, 1999.

A true mmo >> RP << g is not about repeating dungeons to farm gear. It's about a living changing world, exploration, adventure. Are we players, or are we hamsters on a wheel?

a key component in any MMORPG is progression...GW2 lacks this all around.

Wrong.

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  Roguewiz

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/01/02
Posts: 528

When a Kender says "oops!"; its already too late.

6/28/13 12:23:05 PM#131

Guild Wars is a success in that they are able to keep things running and make money.

Guild Wars is not successful in the regard of keeping my attention for more than a month.

Raquelis in various games
Hungweilao, Pandaren Monk, Area-52
Played: Everything
Playing: Hearthstone, League of Legends, World of Warcraft, Destiny (XBOX ONE)
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next, Everquest Next Landmark, Warhammer 40K

The secret to making a great game: Don't cater to the masses!

  kjempff

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/12/04
Posts: 701

Make worlds not stories

6/28/13 1:16:19 PM#132
Nah I think I will pass on getting involved in that wordbattle. My points are invalid and uninformed because I don't share Your views and present a page of details we all know but don't agree on anyways. All Gw2 posts are like this anyways, I shoulda kept quit.
  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

6/28/13 1:42:30 PM#133
Originally posted by kjempff
Nah I think I will pass on getting involved in that wordbattle. My points are invalid and uninformed because I don't share Your views and present a page of details we all know but don't agree on anyways. All Gw2 posts are like this anyways, I shoulda kept quit.

 

Well there in lies the rub. What you claim "we all know" appears to be something that resides purely in your mind. If you're going to make ridiculous claims then you have the burden of backing them up.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  UngoHumungo

Novice Member

Joined: 11/28/05
Posts: 522

I'm here......wheres the fish?

6/28/13 1:56:43 PM#134
Originally posted by Torgrim

Lets face it GW2 is the rare gem that manage to break the WOW mold and made it B2P with monthly updates far more worthy than the traditional pay to use/sub model.

Yes I know some people dont enjoy GW2 and thats perfectly fine thats just human nature, we all can't enjoy the same thing that would be absurb, but you cant say GW2 i not a success in MMORPG industry.

Is GW2 success such a bad thing in grand scheme of it all?

I dont think so, GW2 made a dent that WoW clones are not the absolute in MMO there are rooms for changes and improvements.

 

I think GW2 made quite a few mistakes....however I think there successes outweighed their mistakes in a staggering way...That being said I think comparing GW2 to WoW is like comparing apples to oranges yes they are both fruit and most of the time quite delicious but have very different tastes and make ups as well as how you eat them.. GW2 is without the trinity, that in and of itself makes it more comparable to D3 in the sense that group make up mean little so you and your friend can play whatever they want and still experience content...in a game where the trinity is still functional there is an inherent difference composition and make-up matter much more to play as a successful group someone has to make the sacrifice and be the healer another must be the tank. Would I want to see the trinity implemented into GW2....absolutely not, it would be more a GW1 then...but I think to in order to compare it to WoW you must first recognize thats its a very different model and has features designed for the game that make it so that another company such as blizzard are unable to duplicate in their games simply because of the design they chose

There are times when one must ask themselves is it my passion that truly frightens you? Or your own?

  Scalpless

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/22/07
Posts: 1310

6/28/13 3:09:25 PM#135
Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by Scalpless

I remember how fighting two normal mobs at once was a real challenge during the first beta weekend and three mobs? Damn, you're dead. Too bad they nerfed the difficulty, but it seems to have made a comeback in some of the new content. Those Aetherblades are mean.

Then again, I also remember all those "GW2 is too difficult" and "you can't solo most DEs" complaints, which are ridiculous, but still there. I still wonder how some people are unable to solo non-group DEs. They're so easy.

In terms of difficulty, just move to a different zone. GW2 is not quest chain driven so you will not miss story content or items by going to a harder area. 

The game was developed for casual players, those that are not as "epic" as other players, wouldn't play. Look at how dumb downed WoW has become, it's starter areas are very simple now. Hard content would lose business, so the developers let "you" decide where and how to play.

This game and others are all perfect for RPG. Developers have laid out a platform for us, and yet we want to zoom to level cap and still be gratified. Slow down and make the game an experience and have fun.

The problem is that when you move to a higher zone, mobs just take forever to kill. I can usually complete content around five levels above mine, but it's really slow and not challenging in a good way. Back in BWE1, mobs simply dealt tons of damage. If you were good, you could still kill them quickly.

  Siug

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/02/12
Posts: 994

6/28/13 3:41:18 PM#136
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by Piiritus
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
I'm always amused when people say GW2 doesn't have "meaningful crafting", since it's basically the only theme park MMORPG where you can craft the best gear of the game and also aren't required to raid with an army of other people to do so.

Yup, it does not have meaningful crafting. Just make sure you have crap you need and press button to craft it. Even Lotro had better crafting. Seen worse than GW2 but GW2 crafting is still bloody brainless.

 

You're going to have to share what definition of "meaningful" you're using then. I have 400 tailoring, 400 jewelry making, 400 cooking, 400 artificing... I can fully equip my clothies with new exotics whenever I choose. I didn't even have to make 500 pieces o' crap along the way to get there. To me, that's meaningful crafting. So please, tell us what you think "meaningful" is.

Fallen Earth crafting on release (don't know what it's now like). That was fun and entertaining crafting. I picked Lotro as an example only because to tell that shitty crafting like Lotro had was still better than GW2's. EQ2 was much better.

I already know that arguing with GW2 fanatics is pointless but I just shared my feelings. Game was fun for me for a month, I got my money's worth but for me it's lacking in so many areas that I cannot share your optimism. That's me and I don't hold monopoly of truth here. 

  Amjoco

Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 3881

6/28/13 3:53:24 PM#137
Originally posted by Scalpless
Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by Scalpless

I remember how fighting two normal mobs at once was a real challenge during the first beta weekend and three mobs? Damn, you're dead. Too bad they nerfed the difficulty, but it seems to have made a comeback in some of the new content. Those Aetherblades are mean.

Then again, I also remember all those "GW2 is too difficult" and "you can't solo most DEs" complaints, which are ridiculous, but still there. I still wonder how some people are unable to solo non-group DEs. They're so easy.

In terms of difficulty, just move to a different zone. GW2 is not quest chain driven so you will not miss story content or items by going to a harder area. 

The game was developed for casual players, those that are not as "epic" as other players, wouldn't play. Look at how dumb downed WoW has become, it's starter areas are very simple now. Hard content would lose business, so the developers let "you" decide where and how to play.

This game and others are all perfect for RPG. Developers have laid out a platform for us, and yet we want to zoom to level cap and still be gratified. Slow down and make the game an experience and have fun.

The problem is that when you move to a higher zone, mobs just take forever to kill. I can usually complete content around five levels above mine, but it's really slow and not challenging in a good way. Back in BWE1, mobs simply dealt tons of damage. If you were good, you could still kill them quickly.

So, you want to kill the mobs quickly but in a challenging way? 

What we need is a dial to set before we attack the mobs so we can adjust it to the level we like. 

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  stevebombsquad

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 609

6/28/13 4:00:25 PM#138
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Randayn
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Randayn
I have to disagree.  I believe its a monumental failure for the MMORPG enthusiast.   It sets a tone that will eventually be the death of the real MMORPG.

Everyone has his own definition of "real MMORPG".

To me, GW2 is closer to the original pioneers not based on EQ cloning (UO and AC1) than any other game released since November 2, 1999.

A true mmo >> RP << g is not about repeating dungeons to farm gear. It's about a living changing world, exploration, adventure. Are we players, or are we hamsters on a wheel?

a key component in any MMORPG is progression...GW2 lacks this all around.

Wrong.

Since when isn't some form of "progression" a tenet in a "roleplaying" game? I would like to see you explain that one.....

James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  moosecatlol

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/25/10
Posts: 1175

6/28/13 4:04:30 PM#139
Originally posted by Torgrim
Originally posted by Soki123
Depends on what you measure as success.

How do you measure it?

Future iterations. As all things are measured on the internet.

  Myria

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/07/09
Posts: 544

6/28/13 4:04:38 PM#140
Originally posted by Torgrim
 

I stopped reading right there no point in arguing with you with that kind of statement.

When you title a thread "X is Y no matter how you feel about it" it's kind of laughable to say someone else is being intractable.

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