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News & Features Discussion  » [Dev Journal] General: Have MMOs Become Too Easy?

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394 posts found
  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 3524

6/28/13 2:23:14 PM#121

Every year the MMO playerbase gets larger.

 

The spread of players across different age groups is increasing.

The amount of people who don't really have the time to play "classic" MMORPG's is increasing, but they still demand that MMO's should change to suit their needs.

The skill level, gaming experience, patience and dedication of MMO players is decreasing on average. It has to, as the pool gets bigger and bigger...

  silvermember

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/02/12
Posts: 544

6/28/13 2:30:13 PM#122

MMORPG were never hard, they were simply time sponges designed to suck the lives of people that did not have any real responsibilities. Is there a reason to why achieving X should take a certain amount that involves doing the same repetitive action continously?

A game can be hard without being designed to suck your time. I mean look at all those hard single player games, there is no reason for them to be time suckers and they are not. The offer just enough challenge w/o having to go through hoops.

BTW I find this topic ironic considering that firefall isn't that difficult either, the PvE is mindlessly easy. Actually the game has or had no real PvE and the PvP isn't hard except that the class balance is shit. All firefall is just a game is design to suck the time out of the player. 

 

  Fangrim

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/07/12
Posts: 515

6/28/13 2:31:42 PM#123
Well said,I agree.games are aimed at 5 year olds upwards now to 'appeal' to everyone.good business sense but terrible games for people that want some kind of challenge.Totally and utterly sick of it.Endless treadmill of shit has been released since 2004
  User Deleted
6/28/13 2:33:35 PM#124


Originally posted by Kezzadrix
damn, I fell for it.  I believed this was an article regarding one of the biggest problems plaguing current MMOs but it was really a clever way of misleading me into an advertisement for Firefall.

Heck, that's nothing new. The columns by Genese Davis almost always bring her books and idea for an MMORPG into every article she writes. I don't even read her columns anymore. I see her columns as ads and that is all. She does not even post on here except for her columns.

I just skipped the "Firefall be great!" parts (I am not a PvPer, so no interest there) and read the good stuff, ie: "MMOs have become too easy." :)

  Jadedangel1

Novice Member

Joined: 5/25/13
Posts: 187

6/28/13 2:35:43 PM#125

I haven't been playing MMOs as long as most, but even I have noticed how they have become easier and more casual. Games like GW2 is easy for me to breeze through before I could even fully grasp the controls, and I am far from being the most adept player.

The only exception I can think of to come out of the last few years has been TSW. The easier controls, UI, and etc. are the simplified systems we all have gotten used to since WoW, but there have been many times, and more to come, where all my careful planning still results in my character dying over and over again in the quests.

  Atavax

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/07/09
Posts: 11

6/28/13 2:37:46 PM#126
to the people saying mmo's were never hard, have you played every mmo? I mean, WoW might not have ever really been hard, but have you beaten end game content in earlier ones?
  byron1848

Novice Member

Joined: 11/07/11
Posts: 10

6/28/13 2:44:36 PM#127

The thread seems to me to be a little schizophrenic - one flow is from the OP and subject (are MMOs too 'easy' - a word which clearly means different things to different people) the other flow is about a perceived decline of Group Content. Both are perennial subjects and are not going to go away; people have different expectations and hopes and that is fair enough. My only strong objection is to those who insist that the very words Massively Multiplayer somehow imply or demand a lot of group content; no-one has ever shown me why this should be so. Multiplayer can equally well mean a large number of people playing solo. I reiterate I am NOT criticising those who call for/prefer group content, just asserting there is no linguistic basis for this and it is absurd to pretend there is.

Much stronger in fact would be a linguistic argument which said that very few current MMO's are genuine Role Playing Games. How many players really think about this? I mean devise a persona for their character and speak and act accordingly? Precious few in my experience. But I  wouldn't be sniffy about this - I am just reiterating the point about not falling back on linguistic rationales.

Many excellent points have been made about the difference between being 'hard' and being time-consuming. This seems a clear one to me on one level. Some games (and I suppose they may be ARPGs) are very hard for an ill-co-ordinated old man like me - Vindictus springs instantly to mind. To a young computer savvy kid it is easy. So where those kind of game mechanics are concerned one person's hard is another's easy. Time-consumption is another matter - I mean to achieve max levels in every skill in Runescape takes (unless you cheat or they have changed the game a lot in the last two years) a massive amount of time. But I am not sure whether it is hard in the sense people mean?

My point is that there should be MMOs for every sort of gamer; I am genuinely sorry if people can't find something they enjoy playing. Me I'm overrun but then I am probably easily satisfied!

 

 

  Grabbler

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/14/04
Posts: 7

6/28/13 2:46:26 PM#128

I want my Anarchy Online back. 220 Levels and you wanted EVERY SINGLE ONE of them. Depending on how much you play it took you a full year or even more to get max level.

Nowerdays you get max within a week! And you dont need to drop a single thought about your gear. You get it automatically while rushing towards the endgame.

MMOs these days look like: Create Char -> Follow Quests and pick Rewards -> get Maxed

There is NOTHING you want to do between level 1 and endgame then rushing XPs because its not rewarding, or feels so.

  FlyByKnight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/31/12
Posts: 605

6/28/13 2:51:17 PM#129

Developers also equate:

 

Time = Challenge

 

Why? I thought people played games for gratification, not to be reminded there isn't enough hours in the day to entertain themselves.

 

  Attend4455

Novice Member

Joined: 2/03/13
Posts: 166

6/28/13 3:09:05 PM#130
Originally posted by Heretic451

The final nail in the coffin for WoW was the complete simplification of the talent tree. Instead of figuring out our own spec

while I agree with most of what you said I would like to point out that figuring out your own spec was only really viable for people with a deep understanding and competent guild mates.

Theory crafting in the style of Elitist Jerks meant that there was almost always an optimum build (aka cookie cutter) and to deviate from that (which was sometimes valid, as per your point) you would have to try to explain hard concepts to people with limited knowledge.

 

I sometimes make spelling and grammar errors but I don't pretend it's because I'm using a phone

  Bamboozled

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/21/13
Posts: 29

6/28/13 3:12:22 PM#131
Originally posted by byron1848

My only strong objection is to those who insist that the very words Massively Multiplayer somehow imply or demand a lot of group content; no-one has ever shown me why this should be so. Multiplayer can equally well mean a large number of people playing solo. I reiterate I am NOT criticising those who call for/prefer group content, just asserting there is no linguistic basis for this and it is absurd to pretend there is.

Well stated, and I have no issues with a mechanic like Guild Wars 2 has toward public events and the "heart system".

 

I really enjoyed the fact that I was hoping for more people to show up to the event so that it would become harder. It truly felt like you were "coming to the rescue" when you rolled into an event taking place. The whole aspect of "Shout LFG -> Get Invited to Group -> Wait for the party to fill up with appropriate classes -> Wait for someone to enter the instance -> Click OK" seems like a mechanic that needs some work. It was one of the good aspects of Guild Wars 2, I think rift implemented that as well.

 

It's a good point to bring up, I just would like to see more grouping in MMOs, whether it is through "auto-grouping" or through more traditional means doesn't really matter to me. But working with others to accomplish a goal seems like a core concept for MMOs. Perhaps its just my undying need to meet and play games with fellow gamers that needs to be satisfied. :-)

“He felt that his whole life was some kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.”

- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

  Reklaw

Elite Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 6318

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

6/28/13 3:36:29 PM#132
Originally posted by Kezzadrix

damn, I fell for it.  I believed this was an article regarding one of the biggest problems plaguing current MMOs but it was really a clever way of misleading me into an advertisement for Firefall. 

 

Excactly what I was thinking.

It went from a interesting artical to a "my game is better then that other game"

Though reading what he had to say about Firefall does make me wonder if I might try the game once more.

  Riposte.This

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/12
Posts: 195

Killing dragons is my shit

6/28/13 3:37:26 PM#133
Yes

Killing dragons is my shit

  Arclan

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/29/07
Posts: 1458

"Ideas are worthless. The only currency that holds any weight is the ability and drive to execute."

6/28/13 3:57:54 PM#134


Originally posted by furbans

Originally posted by Doogiehowser MMOS were never tough or difficult. They were just too time consuming. Unless people equate time sinks with challenge?
^^^ This person deserves a cookie. MMOs were never difficult only time consuming.

Using that logic, might one conclude that the only hard part of running a marathon is the marathon, itself, which is four or more hours? And the months of training that led up to that was time-consuming and not difficult?



Originally posted by Kezzadrix
damn, I fell for it. I believed this was an article regarding one of the biggest problems plaguing current MMOs but it was really a clever way of misleading me into an advertisement for Firefall.

I noticed that too.

Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit

  MondoA2J

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/13
Posts: 259

"You are mine, I'm yours, and if we die, we die. But first we'll live." Ygritte

6/28/13 4:00:38 PM#135

You had me until you started selling your game. Then you came off "Car salesman" type.

On the other hand, I agree with your article and believe levels should be abolished in all MMOs.

Another problem that comes up in raising difficulty though is, the casual player. People enjoy jumping in for an hour or half hour and doing some quick butt kicking. If you make it more difficult this may turn the casual off. It could also entice him to play harder or learn to play better but I am betting on peoples laziness more then passion.

Maybe I am a cynic. ;)

Everyone is watching the horizon and alot of Sandbox MMOs are on there way. If the solution doesn't present itself then. We have a major problem in the market.

Beyond difficulty, beyond design, beyond innovation. The genre will choke and die.

I honestly feel that it may happen no matter what. Cause we started with sandbox MMOs and we moved on from them. I don't know if taking a step backwards is going to fix the current genre's problems. We will see.

 

MMORPG Gamers/Developers need a reality check!

  moosecatlol

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/25/10
Posts: 1198

6/28/13 4:01:21 PM#136

Preparing to have fun is never challenging and thus never difficult. You can bash on WoW all you want, but the fact is that it had the highest guild shut down ratio upon new content releases.  Something that you will NEVER see again in the west, due to developer cowardice.

On another note, STARS that infamous raiding guild that cleared all of BC in 52 days while wearing T3, is now dominating the east's most competitive PvE scene. Unfortunately each of their "raid" members characters have at least $2000+ USD put into them in order to achieve that level of success.

It's funny to think now that everyone sees WoW as the most casual game to have ever existed, while the same time factually realizing that it still holds the title of most hardcore PvE game to have ever existed and it did so without the crutch of perma-death or exploding gear.

 

Also about the comment of "It's not the end game that we should be worried about it's the journey." well it's a nice saying, but no one has managed to accomplish this, not Guild Wars 2, and certainly not Firefall.

  caetftl

Novice Member

Joined: 8/29/12
Posts: 388

6/28/13 5:55:08 PM#137

:Looks at OP and thread:

:Sees typical "ours does it right":

:Sees blast against wow:

:Sees third person shooter:

:OP loses all credibility:

Your entire game is based on the dumbing down of gaming in general, not just the MMO genre.  Third person shooters are all the rave because of the dumbing down of a genre (fps)

I appreciate the edgy little bite you are trying to give your game by being so outspoken against the big bad giant mmo.  But I think one thing the hardcore mmo community, which has been let down by tons of devs making the same claims you now make, has learned is that we will let the product speak for itself.  Less gimmick advertising, more real content plz. 

  Nephelai

Novice Member

Joined: 1/29/13
Posts: 176

6/28/13 6:19:11 PM#138

The real problem is the business model. MMO's really need to move away from a volume model to a higher charging niche model. In life the normal distribution curve fits almost everything - it terms of players that means you have some people on the higher/lower end and a very large amount of people in the middle or so called average. If your business model relies on low margin and chasing as many people as possible then you have no choice but to go after average. Once you take that step everything becomes average because that group then drives the revenue and has the loudest voice to tear down anything hyena style.

 

Times have moved on and MMO's really haven't increased in price if anything they have further decreased to go even further in the average direction to try and capture even more average players. An MMO that focuses on timely unique content and charges me appropriately would have me throwing money at it rather than flicking loose change to the present ones drip feeding me ground hog day.

 

  Ehliya

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/13/06
Posts: 197

6/28/13 6:49:31 PM#139

I think it is generational.  The original generation of fantasy game players were raised on Dungeons and Dragons pen and paper.  A slower pace was part of that - if you reached level 15 you were really something.  It was group and social oriented - you played with other people not solo against the system.  This original generation influenced the way the early MMO were designed and played.  Creating your own content, not fancy graphics, was the emphasis.

The younger generation didn't have this experience.  So they have bought into the marketing strategies that tell them better means faster, quicker, and prettier.  Having to rely or depend on other players is considered an imposition, so the MMO now are basically solo games.   

As a result, the genre has gone backwards.  People are sick of every IP being turned into yet another cookie-cutter rat race theme park.  The FTP cash shop model has made things worse - the games are basically backdrop for squeezing money out of the players.

  GranDux

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/05/13
Posts: 60

6/28/13 7:25:25 PM#140

The gameplay experience is being exchanged in appeal to gain more and any numbers in main-stream commercialization.

The difference between current mmo's now and the mmo's created is that the older mmo's didn't mind taking risks despite their technical limitations. The mmo's now only focus on easy-mode with predictable gameplay in order to appeal to the demograph of the soccer-mommie friendly players and casual players. One of the reasons so many lame clones and fail-titles have flooded the MMO genre because developers simply stop trying to make their games different and followed the commercial-cookie cutter appeal<majority of current mmo's now keep mentioning of competing with WoW of course, ironically cutting back on the quality of experience for their players in the process>. This may have brought in more numbers but it is killing off the integrity of gaming in MMO's. Less thought involved and more emphasis on easy-mode and hand-holding with very little rewarding experience.

It's no longer experiencing and living through the gameplay and the mmo world but the experience exchanged in favor of mass numbers and e-sports. MMO's first came around off of board-games like Dungeon and Dragons <which was basically played by nerds> which did involve risk-factors in the gameplay even back then. Now half if not almost all the risk has been taken away as well as the challenge. Time will only tell if MMO's return to their origin roots <the emphasis on actual quality over quantity> instead of the redundancy seen now.

 

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