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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » If P2P, B2P, and F2P Were Fast Food Restaurants

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52 posts found
  evicton

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/21/11
Posts: 399

6/27/13 2:45:04 PM#41

The lumping of all games under their payment model to predetermine their quality is about as flawed as any other stereo type.

 

Warhammer online is in maintenance mode. Its p2p yet anyone who subs can rest assured any content updates will be small and scarce if it ever does get a content update. And Warhammer players would have been tickled to recieve the kind of content updates gw1 and gw2 recieved.

 

Warhammer never recieved a full fledged expansion and prolly never will...closest it could really come to was having the choppa and slayer added. Considering those were supposed to be launch classes I don't count them. However a f2p title that launched 16 days before Warhammer has had 5 expansions released and none of those expansions costed anything.  That game is advertising a new content update on this sight right now, its PW.

My brother played pw for 2 years and spent 50 bucks total on it. I'm pretty sure I payed that much just for the warhammer box. Not to mention the 5 months I subbed to that game. My brother can log on and experience the content of these expansion whenever the mood hits him. I have to spend more money.

 

STO is another good example back in the day I considered cryptic posting on the forums as new content. Since it converted over to f2p they have added new content regularly including the expansion last month and they just added a summer event to the game.

 

  Falstaff

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/15/04
Posts: 61

6/27/13 2:47:18 PM#42
Originally posted by coretex666

I am glad I can afford not to deal with F2P.

F2P is just a way how to make money on people without economic education, financial literacy, or just those with low requirements regarding the quality of the product they consume.

Quality products have price tags on themselves. I enjoy those products and I am gladly paying for them.

FYI... update your sig..   you list 2 free to play games that you are waiting for..  :)

 

Waiting for: ArcheAge, The Repopulation, "Titan", EQ Next.   arent they all gonna be free to play??

  Kazuhiro

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/03/07
Posts: 392

6/27/13 3:06:59 PM#43
Originally posted by Warley

P2P: A meal costs $5.99, with each meal after the first costing $1.49 each visit. The menu options expand over time and you can mix and match.

B2P: A meal costs $5.99, and never pay again for each visit. The cheese changes once in a while, the burger is actually made from soy, the fries are cooked in hydrogenated oil instead of vegetable oil and are actually synthetic. There's no menu options.

F2P: You get the bun for free. To add a soy burger it costs $1.99; hamburger costs $2.49; Angus burger costs $3.49. Lettuce, Tomatoes, Cheese and pickles all cost $0.50 each. Ketchup, Mustard and packets of each cost $0.25. Fries cost another $1.99 to add. A pop/soda costs $0.99 to add. You pay this every time. You also have the wonderful option of choosing the Super Duper Deluxe Combo Meal on your first visit that includes all the above once, a lifetime discount of 10% each visit, plus a plastic toy for $39.95; their estimated value (according to the company) is $59.95. Their main marketing consists of the word 'value'.

Seems about right. Also I'd like to add one to the list.

BROWSER BASED F2P MMO: You get to look at a picture of a meal for free as long as you want. To purchase the burger you must do so for each piece. The bun costs $49.99; The patty costs $199.99; and the rest of the toppings cost $19.99 each. If you don't buy at least one full meal each day the restraunt forcibly removes you from the premises, or you are eaten by the other customers in line. The restraunt will sometimes sell long term purchases of meals for several thousand dollars, but these restraunts are known to disappear overnight, with a new one exactly like it but with a different colored building built nextdoor that same day.

JeroKane: In TSW your gear has NO stats whatsoever! But only via trinkets and talismans.

Myself: Please, stop posting, I can't breath I'm laughing so hard at that statement.

  KhinRunite

Novice Member

Joined: 11/05/10
Posts: 897

6/27/13 10:54:15 PM#44
Originally posted by Warley
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by Warley
Originally posted by GroovyFlower
 

I played both. Both awesome the first couple of days, were still good through the rest of the week, and then I had to force myself to log in. They just had no depth to them.

Then I am anxious to hear your explanation as to why those games were as popular as they were. And what is your excuse for making such inaccurate comments about those games?

Look, I bought and enjoyed Guild Wars 1 & 2. I enjoyed them for like a week each. I played Rift for a couple months before I forced myself to log in. I've played Asheron's Call since Jan, 2000, and I still play it. I've played UO off and on, having played it for like 2 years the first go. Everquest 2 I played for like 6 months (and only left at the time because I didn't have time for it).

The key is that these MMO's were designed with more content and a higher budget (relative to when they were developed).

You're still on the wrong. Please stop objectifying your views on Guild Wars. Just man up and admit that you didn't like GW1/2 because of this, and this, and that...in short, features that are PRESENT in your preferred MMOs (aka Raid, gear gating, etc). Guild Wars have features not commonly found on its competitors, but they simply don't interest you. That's all there is to it.

The more you try to objectify yourself, the more criticism you'll get because your premise that B2P games are inferior to P2P is flat out WRONG.

  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

6/27/13 11:26:03 PM#45

People love to look at things in absolutes, but the fact is each model is different.

Guild Wars 2 especially is a unique case, because it had massive sales and a much larger player base than any of the other f2p/b2p games so it can afford its model and still update their game accordingly. 

But if you want to go with the fast food analogy, you forgot to mention this:

P2P/B2P: some of the patrons smell, varies from place to place how bad the smell is.  many older establishments its not even noticeable.

F2P:  The odor tends to overwhelm you the second you walk in the door

  Warley

Novice Member

Joined: 2/23/12
Posts: 150

 
OP  6/28/13 12:44:01 AM#46
Originally posted by KhinRunite
Originally posted by Warley
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by Warley
Originally posted by GroovyFlower
 

I played both. Both awesome the first couple of days, were still good through the rest of the week, and then I had to force myself to log in. They just had no depth to them.

Then I am anxious to hear your explanation as to why those games were as popular as they were. And what is your excuse for making such inaccurate comments about those games?

Look, I bought and enjoyed Guild Wars 1 & 2. I enjoyed them for like a week each. I played Rift for a couple months before I forced myself to log in. I've played Asheron's Call since Jan, 2000, and I still play it. I've played UO off and on, having played it for like 2 years the first go. Everquest 2 I played for like 6 months (and only left at the time because I didn't have time for it).

The key is that these MMO's were designed with more content and a higher budget (relative to when they were developed).

You're still on the wrong. Please stop objectifying your views on Guild Wars. Just man up and admit that you didn't like GW1/2 because of this, and this, and that...in short, features that are PRESENT in your preferred MMOs (aka Raid, gear gating, etc). Guild Wars have features not commonly found on its competitors, but they simply don't interest you. That's all there is to it.

The more you try to objectify yourself, the more criticism you'll get because your premise that B2P games are inferior to P2P is flat out WRONG.

Actually, I liked both Guild Wars 1 and 2. They just lack the depth and content that P2P MMO's have. Guild Wars 1 and 2 are good games for what they were designed for.

  Raxeon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/10/10
Posts: 2069

6/28/13 12:49:53 AM#47
Originally posted by Quirhid
You trying to make a point that the quality of content is better with P2P? Or you get more with P2P? ... Yeah, no. That's not true.

it ussly is unless the game just isnt good int he first place

  Aeander

Elite Member

Joined: 7/15/11
Posts: 302

6/28/13 2:06:00 AM#48
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by Warley

P2P: A meal costs $5.99, with each meal after the first costing $1.49 each visit. The menu options expand over time and you can mix and match.

B2P: A meal costs $5.99, and never pay again for each visit. The cheese changes once in a while, the burger is actually made from soy, the fries are cooked in hydrogenated oil instead of vegetable oil and are actually synthetic. There's no menu options.

F2P: You get the bun for free. To add a soy burger it costs $1.99; hamburger costs $2.49; Angus burger costs $3.49. Lettuce, Tomatoes, Cheese and pickles all cost $0.50 each. Ketchup, Mustard and packets of each cost $0.25. Fries cost another $1.99 to add. A pop/soda costs $0.99 to add. You pay this every time. You also have the wonderful option of choosing the Super Duper Deluxe Combo Meal on your first visit that includes all the above once, a lifetime discount of 10% each visit, plus a plastic toy for $39.95; their estimated value (according to the company) is $59.95. Their main marketing consists of the word 'value'.

 

More like:

P2P: All you can eat buffet.  Entry to the resturant costs $5.99, and you have 5 minutes of allocated time to consume as much as you can.  Each 5 minutes after the first costing $1.49 to give you space at the resturant.

B2P: A meal costs $5.99, and can take as long as you want to consume the meal. Sides cost an extra 50c.  You have the same menu options as P2P.

F2PYou get a base meal to try for free (hamburger with just meat and sauce) and can try it as many times as you want.  If you want additional toppings or sides you have to pay an extra $1 per item.

 

Depending on how much you want to consume, B2P and F2P offer better options. B2P lets you take time to enjoy your product, and still offers some extras for additional cost. F2P will nickel and dime you if you want to consume a large amount, but is better value for the casual consumer. 

This was the correct answer. 

  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5540

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

6/28/13 2:13:20 AM#49
Originally posted by Warley
Originally posted by KhinRunite
 

Actually, I liked both Guild Wars 1 and 2. They just lack the depth and content that P2P MMO's have. Guild Wars 1 and 2 are good games for what they were designed for.

They don't lack either depth nor content. Its just not your bowl of soup. You don't need to justify your preference in any way. We get it.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  Nephelai

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/29/13
Posts: 164

6/28/13 3:01:09 AM#50

B2P, P2P and F2P are not business models they are payment plans. The business model of MMO's is a volume based business model i.e. they rely on huge volumes of product or service with small margins - this to me is where the problem lies and stops the customer getting increased value. There are two types of customers, one that considers gaming as a genuine hobby for enjoyment and the other that is time syncing their life away in what just happens to be a video game. The volume model suites the time syncers as it's low cost with seeming endless amounts of content (allbeit repeatable).

 

With all MMO content very similar and the business model the same what I see as the real next big thing is for someone to move to a lower volume customer model with an increased price but with much greater amount/quality of content  that can be purchased as entertainment or enjoyment. For example, I have many MMO's on my PC and I'll chose WoW. I pay $3.75 per week which is a pittance - that's why I get boring repeatable brain dead content. On the other hand I would pay $10 per week if I could get a new dungeon each week. Even more for a new raid every now and then or other forms of content.

 

Just like I spend a good deal of money on other forms of enjoyment each week like going to the movies, rugby league, out for dinner and solid beer session on a Friday night I'd love to be able to do the same with my video game hobbie. Not to beat things or people but just to get access to new quality content on a timely basis.

 

I was once a low income time syncer so I understand how games can provide a refuge however for me those days are gone and I just want to be able to play 4-6hrs per week of good quality gaming - I  fear though that the former crowd is still so large that they hound the game makers like a pack of hyenas until they produce rubbish that costs almost nothing just to fullfil their need.

 

 

 

 

 

  Warley

Novice Member

Joined: 2/23/12
Posts: 150

 
OP  6/28/13 1:29:31 PM#51
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by Warley
Originally posted by KhinRunite
 

Actually, I liked both Guild Wars 1 and 2. They just lack the depth and content that P2P MMO's have. Guild Wars 1 and 2 are good games for what they were designed for.

They don't lack either depth nor content. Its just not your bowl of soup. You don't need to justify your preference in any way. We get it.

Actually, they do lack depth. It's not an opinion, it's a fact. If I need to highlight it further by comparing it to a handful of MMO's I'll do that. Just because you're a huge fan of Guild Wars 1 & 2 doesn't change what they are and what they were built to be.

Btw, I'm not arguing that P2P MMO's are always 'funner' or 'better' than B2P or F2P. I'm arguing that -in general- P2P traditionally have more content and deeper content than B2P and F2P.

Both Guild Wars 1 & 2 were GREAT GAMES for what they were, but to argue they equal or exceed  the depth and content of AC 1 (or 2), UO, EQ 2, WoW, Vanguard, Warhammer Online, Age of Conan, and so forth is ridiculous. Guild Wars 1, especially, was extremely shallow.

I'm not just saying this. I've played all of the games above. I didn't care for Warhammer Online or Age of Conan, but it was abundantly clear they had more content and depth than the Guild Wars games. Primarily because Guild Wars 1 & 2 had to scale back on networking and server costs, along with customer support and content creation, since they weren't charging a monthly fee.

Look, I understand you love Guild Wars 1 & 2. It's obvious from your avatar, and you feel you have to defend it when you think someone is slighting those games. But, they're not even traditional MMO's and the original Guild Wars shouldn't have been labeled an MMO. Their multiplayer online games, not massively multiplayer online games.  Otherwise, you'd have to label Diablo 2 and 3 as MMO's.

  daltanious

Elite Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 1775

6/28/13 1:58:53 PM#52
Originally posted by Warley

P2P: A meal costs $5.99, with each meal after the first costing $1.49 each visit. The menu options expand over time and you can mix and match.

B2P: A meal costs $5.99, and never pay again for each visit. The cheese changes once in a while, the burger is actually made from soy, the fries are cooked in hydrogenated oil instead of vegetable oil and are actually synthetic. There's no menu options.

F2P: You get the bun for free. To add a soy burger it costs $1.99; hamburger costs $2.49; Angus burger costs $3.49. Lettuce, Tomatoes, Cheese and pickles all cost $0.50 each. Ketchup, Mustard and packets of each cost $0.25. Fries cost another $1.99 to add. A pop/soda costs $0.99 to add. You pay this every time. You also have the wonderful option of choosing the Super Duper Deluxe Combo Meal on your first visit that includes all the above once, a lifetime discount of 10% each visit, plus a plastic toy for $39.95; their estimated value (according to the company) is $59.95. Their main marketing consists of the word 'value'.

Pretty accurate description. For this reason I only P2P, there was so far only one "meal" very good for B2P and that is GW2. But that is exception.

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