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News & Features Discussion  » [General Article] Warhammer 40.000: Eternal Crusade: Making a Warhammer 40,000 MMO: The History

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  DiavorFK

Novice Member

Joined: 4/22/13
Posts: 5

6/27/13 11:29:10 AM#61
Originally posted by Chivalry1978

I wrote something about this game and its concepts during the E3 release and after some time I have come up with a few things...

This game could easily work, as long as a few things are kept either true to the fluff, or kept within range.

1. Pricing models. Now as many have been complaining about is the limitations of free to play. While I can agree with this is some small part, I have to say that developers dont make games for you, they make it to get paid. Simple as that. Now if you have never played a f2p mmo, you can actually spend a hell of alot more on it then you would a regular sub game. Developers prefer subs as this is always a steady stream, however many refuse to invest in a game that is sub based till they know they are going to like it, so a f2p system is very valid. Now when it comes to the other races or expanding the orc race the pricing model should be rather low to be honest. Say for 20 bucks you unlock the race and get a few premium items and or in game cash to use tweak out your playing experience. 20 dollars isnt much and for 80 dollars you can open up all the factions. This to can be expanded with implementations of necron, tau, dark eldar, witch hunters, and so on. 

2. Chaos chapter. Now they picked the Iron warriors. Many are really not happy about this, but they are not seeing the bigger picture here. When it comes to planetary seige warfare the Iron warriors are hands down the most brutal. Take into effect they are Chaos united makes they rather beefy and would in theory allow them to specialize a little more to one of the dark gods more then any other, But again this is dependent on developers love of fluff.

3. Orc Weapons. As many are going to play the game as a orc they are really going to need to add some flavor to these start weapons. One thing they will really need to keep true is the Orc Choppa. This is nothing more then an ax on a cleaver handle, but due to orc's strength and the some other interesting points it can cleave through space marine armor like butter. In the table top this is represented by reducing the standard 3+ save of a Space marine to a 4. Yes I know thats only a 16% difference but when you times this by 3x and then again by 10+ it can easily pummel a squad of Space marines. So keeping with the fact that there will be an ungodly amount of ocs just running into battle, Orcs will need to be able to do well in close combat. Not to say Space marines should be gimped, But when you consider that a squad of 5 space marine facing a swarm of 100 orcs on a charge, depending on weapons, will easily slice through 75% of them before they get into close combat, your going to need a counter point.

4.Vehicles. They already stated there would be vehicles used in the game, however to what extent no one knows. Personally I would love to be in a thunder hawk and do a hot lz touch down and go into combat, however if this is the extent then they are truely going to miss out on a huge portion of the game universe. Now Im not saying that every one should be able to roll around in a Dred, or a land raider, but there as to be something. Say you capture a point, your able to summon a random vehicle support to drop and you or some one else can take control of it. 

5. Need more combat NPC. Im mean I get the idea of Tyrannids being the counter balance to faction domination of numbers. However any one who plays war hammer 40k will know how to kill Nids. Use flamers, and heavy bolters and back pedal the whole way. Other races, such as Necron, or Dark eldar could be introduced as raiding force and would offer up some interesting challenges...I mean imagine fighting a phalanx of necron warriors and watching those you killed getting back up and as you run up to get into close combat, their main weakness you get tied up with scarabs or flayed ones, or something else. With each army you have to approach them differently and each one adds alot of flavor, dont get me wrong, nids are all around nasty, but their lack of penetration  pretty much means he in a predator will mop up. Less they have a sniperfex or Ht with venom cannon, and even then not so much a problem.

6. Dark Angels. I get that Gw is pushing this space marine chapter as they just release the new codex and models not so long ago and they want to drive more interest and in turn sales, but really. Dark angels have a very sorted past, to say the least. The are in constant persuit of redemption because half the chapter went rogue. And to many who play warhammer 40k we gennerally look down on dark angel players as being a cheese noob army, and here is why.  Way to many plasma weapons. Plasma pretty much kills everything it hits minus terminators or anything with a 2+ or an inv save. 2nd on the cheese list is the massive, and I do mean Massive amount of terminator armors they have at their disposal. Im not kidding. I cant tell you how many matches I have played where people were using a whole terminator based army. And last but not least is the massive use of bikes and landspeeders. Hell they got one with an assualt cannon(which btw can slay even a tank or dred, and plasma battery(not sure what this does as I have yet to look up the dark angels codex, but knowing gw is probably a multi shot plasma cannon allowing the placement of several small blast markers causing plasma damage to all it touches. Oh yeah and its really really fast. This one vehicle alone could easily hold off 100 orcs with out much effort.

There should be later expansions to add others of the main chapters. By this I mean Blood Angels, Space wolves, Ultra Marines, etc. Pretty much if they make a special character for the chapter, put them in. Most of it will be identical to the models you already have in play, and all your doing is adding a paint scheme.  Now you could do the same with Chaos, but considering we already discussed the fact that any chaos power can be taken by chaos united, its kinda a moot point.

7. Progression and gear unlocks. One of the biggest fears is that much of the most sought after gear will be pay to win. To counter this the game should use a reputation system. The more you play and combat in the campaign the more you unlock to outfit your self with. Nothing is going to suck more then the noob kid who taxes his mom's credit card comes out with an iron halo artificer armor, master crafted plasma pistol, and a massive power sword on day 1.  Gear and weapons should be eanred through contribution, not through a credit card.

8. Customizing. Who here plays 40k and does not take that extra time to make their army special and look good. Hell I knew a chick who made the hello kitty chapter. It was sickening to say the least, but the time and care she took with it was amazing. Some of my old friends who no longer play would win awards left and right when ever they went to games day. So we are going to need something similar in this endeavor. Im not suggesting an all out painting app, but perhaps making sure all the small details are there. And in 40k thats a plethora of items. Many of which they could charge for.

9. Constant interaction. One of the death nails of many games is lack of content and interaction. For some reason many developers have not caught onto this. Wow has saddly thus its long standing history. If this game truly wants to take off it will need so dedicated, forum, event, campaign, and social media staff. And dont just make one person in charge of this spread it out and have them all work together. The more involved your player base is within the community the longer the game will last.

10. NO ORBITAL BOMBARDMENT. Yes I know a rather trivial suggestion, however hear me out. These planets we will be fighting on will have, Space marines, eldar, orcs, chaos, and NIDS. Now Eldar, Nids, and chaos can get about with out space trave(though they tend to have a fleet backing all their actions). Orcs and Space marines generally have fleets. Now true most of the orc fleet will simply crash into the planet and use the wreaks to build weapons, But still. Their would be some massive space combat going on at all times and having say a relay station capture allowing for an orbital bombardment would be rather stupid. Not to metion be very hard effectively use. Plus eldar would never use such a crude method of war.

 

Very good post, Chivalry!

  TsaboHavoc

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/11
Posts: 340

6/27/13 11:54:58 AM#62
Originally posted by Nighthawk77

I am actually very disappointed with the game. To say that Warhammer/40K isn't a Saturday tabletop game is completely wrong. They clearly have not heard of Dark Heresy/Black Crusade/Rogue Trader/Deathwatch/Only War by Fantasy Flight Games. The Warhammer 40K universe has such rich lore and detailed story, there is so much scope for a player to roleplay, and be a part of that story, even as a Space Marine. PvP centric games have die horribly in the past, and games MMO's with no end game don't keep players.

An MMORPG needs to be balanced in its play style or people will get board, especially the fans of the universe. It is true to say that 40K should be about everyone vs everyone else (with the occasional exception), but to make it only PvP, and not try to tell a story ... It leaves me feeling sad. THQ's Dark Millennium had its faults but they were willing to do a story with it. Do I want another WoW? No. But I would happily take a game that is like SWTOR crossed with TSW and Terra. Moral choice story lines, intrigue and thinking quests and dynamic combat. Have PvP in there too, and make sure its done properly, its not my cup of tea but people like it.

If you don't use the richness of universe, then there is no point the game being set there, it may as well be Starship Troopers of The Fifth Element the MMO for all the difference it will make.

what the hell u talking about! story.. swtor, moral choices... lol

  TsaboHavoc

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/11
Posts: 340

6/27/13 12:07:23 PM#63
Originally posted by Chivalry1978

I wrote something about this game and its concepts during the E3 release and after some time I have come up with a few things...

This game could easily work, as long as a few things are kept either true to the fluff, or kept within range.

1. Pricing models. Now as many have been complaining about is the limitations of free to play. While I can agree with this is some small part, I have to say that developers dont make games for you, they make it to get paid. Simple as that. Now if you have never played a f2p mmo, you can actually spend a hell of alot more on it then you would a regular sub game. Developers prefer subs as this is always a steady stream, however many refuse to invest in a game that is sub based till they know they are going to like it, so a f2p system is very valid. Now when it comes to the other races or expanding the orc race the pricing model should be rather low to be honest. Say for 20 bucks you unlock the race and get a few premium items and or in game cash to use tweak out your playing experience. 20 dollars isnt much and for 80 dollars you can open up all the factions. This to can be expanded with implementations of necron, tau, dark eldar, witch hunters, and so on. 

2. Chaos chapter. Now they picked the Iron warriors. Many are really not happy about this, but they are not seeing the bigger picture here. When it comes to planetary seige warfare the Iron warriors are hands down the most brutal. Take into effect they are Chaos united makes they rather beefy and would in theory allow them to specialize a little more to one of the dark gods more then any other, But again this is dependent on developers love of fluff.

3. Orc Weapons. As many are going to play the game as a orc they are really going to need to add some flavor to these start weapons. One thing they will really need to keep true is the Orc Choppa. This is nothing more then an ax on a cleaver handle, but due to orc's strength and the some other interesting points it can cleave through space marine armor like butter. In the table top this is represented by reducing the standard 3+ save of a Space marine to a 4. Yes I know thats only a 16% difference but when you times this by 3x and then again by 10+ it can easily pummel a squad of Space marines. So keeping with the fact that there will be an ungodly amount of ocs just running into battle, Orcs will need to be able to do well in close combat. Not to say Space marines should be gimped, But when you consider that a squad of 5 space marine facing a swarm of 100 orcs on a charge, depending on weapons, will easily slice through 75% of them before they get into close combat, your going to need a counter point.

4.Vehicles. They already stated there would be vehicles used in the game, however to what extent no one knows. Personally I would love to be in a thunder hawk and do a hot lz touch down and go into combat, however if this is the extent then they are truely going to miss out on a huge portion of the game universe. Now Im not saying that every one should be able to roll around in a Dred, or a land raider, but there as to be something. Say you capture a point, your able to summon a random vehicle support to drop and you or some one else can take control of it. 

5. Need more combat NPC. Im mean I get the idea of Tyrannids being the counter balance to faction domination of numbers. However any one who plays war hammer 40k will know how to kill Nids. Use flamers, and heavy bolters and back pedal the whole way. Other races, such as Necron, or Dark eldar could be introduced as raiding force and would offer up some interesting challenges...I mean imagine fighting a phalanx of necron warriors and watching those you killed getting back up and as you run up to get into close combat, their main weakness you get tied up with scarabs or flayed ones, or something else. With each army you have to approach them differently and each one adds alot of flavor, dont get me wrong, nids are all around nasty, but their lack of penetration  pretty much means he in a predator will mop up. Less they have a sniperfex or Ht with venom cannon, and even then not so much a problem.

6. Dark Angels. I get that Gw is pushing this space marine chapter as they just release the new codex and models not so long ago and they want to drive more interest and in turn sales, but really. Dark angels have a very sorted past, to say the least. The are in constant persuit of redemption because half the chapter went rogue. And to many who play warhammer 40k we gennerally look down on dark angel players as being a cheese noob army, and here is why.  Way to many plasma weapons. Plasma pretty much kills everything it hits minus terminators or anything with a 2+ or an inv save. 2nd on the cheese list is the massive, and I do mean Massive amount of terminator armors they have at their disposal. Im not kidding. I cant tell you how many matches I have played where people were using a whole terminator based army. And last but not least is the massive use of bikes and landspeeders. Hell they got one with an assualt cannon(which btw can slay even a tank or dred, and plasma battery(not sure what this does as I have yet to look up the dark angels codex, but knowing gw is probably a multi shot plasma cannon allowing the placement of several small blast markers causing plasma damage to all it touches. Oh yeah and its really really fast. This one vehicle alone could easily hold off 100 orcs with out much effort.

There should be later expansions to add others of the main chapters. By this I mean Blood Angels, Space wolves, Ultra Marines, etc. Pretty much if they make a special character for the chapter, put them in. Most of it will be identical to the models you already have in play, and all your doing is adding a paint scheme.  Now you could do the same with Chaos, but considering we already discussed the fact that any chaos power can be taken by chaos united, its kinda a moot point.

7. Progression and gear unlocks. One of the biggest fears is that much of the most sought after gear will be pay to win. To counter this the game should use a reputation system. The more you play and combat in the campaign the more you unlock to outfit your self with. Nothing is going to suck more then the noob kid who taxes his mom's credit card comes out with an iron halo artificer armor, master crafted plasma pistol, and a massive power sword on day 1.  Gear and weapons should be eanred through contribution, not through a credit card.

8. Customizing. Who here plays 40k and does not take that extra time to make their army special and look good. Hell I knew a chick who made the hello kitty chapter. It was sickening to say the least, but the time and care she took with it was amazing. Some of my old friends who no longer play would win awards left and right when ever they went to games day. So we are going to need something similar in this endeavor. Im not suggesting an all out painting app, but perhaps making sure all the small details are there. And in 40k thats a plethora of items. Many of which they could charge for.

9. Constant interaction. One of the death nails of many games is lack of content and interaction. For some reason many developers have not caught onto this. Wow has saddly thus its long standing history. If this game truly wants to take off it will need so dedicated, forum, event, campaign, and social media staff. And dont just make one person in charge of this spread it out and have them all work together. The more involved your player base is within the community the longer the game will last.

10. NO ORBITAL BOMBARDMENT. Yes I know a rather trivial suggestion, however hear me out. These planets we will be fighting on will have, Space marines, eldar, orcs, chaos, and NIDS. Now Eldar, Nids, and chaos can get about with out space trave(though they tend to have a fleet backing all their actions). Orcs and Space marines generally have fleets. Now true most of the orc fleet will simply crash into the planet and use the wreaks to build weapons, But still. Their would be some massive space combat going on at all times and having say a relay station capture allowing for an orbital bombardment would be rather stupid. Not to metion be very hard effectively use. Plus eldar would never use such a crude method of war.

 

as long they do what u saying, yes, Mister random internet specialist.

  Stumperson

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/13
Posts: 12

6/27/13 1:49:13 PM#64

I am very happy they plan to give us customization.

 

I would love a Space Marine level of customization. 

  bramtrucky

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/19/11
Posts: 1

6/27/13 1:55:10 PM#65
Originally posted by Chivalry1978

I wrote something about this game and its concepts during the E3 release and after some time I have come up with a few things...

This game could easily work, as long as a few things are kept either true to the fluff, or kept within range.

1. Pricing models. Now as many have been complaining about is the limitations of free to play. While I can agree with this is some small part, I have to say that developers dont make games for you, they make it to get paid. Simple as that. Now if you have never played a f2p mmo, you can actually spend a hell of alot more on it then you would a regular sub game. Developers prefer subs as this is always a steady stream, however many refuse to invest in a game that is sub based till they know they are going to like it, so a f2p system is very valid. Now when it comes to the other races or expanding the orc race the pricing model should be rather low to be honest. Say for 20 bucks you unlock the race and get a few premium items and or in game cash to use tweak out your playing experience. 20 dollars isnt much and for 80 dollars you can open up all the factions. This to can be expanded with implementations of necron, tau, dark eldar, witch hunters, and so on. 

2. Chaos chapter. Now they picked the Iron warriors. Many are really not happy about this, but they are not seeing the bigger picture here. When it comes to planetary seige warfare the Iron warriors are hands down the most brutal. Take into effect they are Chaos united makes they rather beefy and would in theory allow them to specialize a little more to one of the dark gods more then any other, But again this is dependent on developers love of fluff.

3. Orc Weapons. As many are going to play the game as a orc they are really going to need to add some flavor to these start weapons. One thing they will really need to keep true is the Orc Choppa. This is nothing more then an ax on a cleaver handle, but due to orc's strength and the some other interesting points it can cleave through space marine armor like butter. In the table top this is represented by reducing the standard 3+ save of a Space marine to a 4. Yes I know thats only a 16% difference but when you times this by 3x and then again by 10+ it can easily pummel a squad of Space marines. So keeping with the fact that there will be an ungodly amount of ocs just running into battle, Orcs will need to be able to do well in close combat. Not to say Space marines should be gimped, But when you consider that a squad of 5 space marine facing a swarm of 100 orcs on a charge, depending on weapons, will easily slice through 75% of them before they get into close combat, your going to need a counter point.

4.Vehicles. They already stated there would be vehicles used in the game, however to what extent no one knows. Personally I would love to be in a thunder hawk and do a hot lz touch down and go into combat, however if this is the extent then they are truely going to miss out on a huge portion of the game universe. Now Im not saying that every one should be able to roll around in a Dred, or a land raider, but there as to be something. Say you capture a point, your able to summon a random vehicle support to drop and you or some one else can take control of it. 

5. Need more combat NPC. Im mean I get the idea of Tyrannids being the counter balance to faction domination of numbers. However any one who plays war hammer 40k will know how to kill Nids. Use flamers, and heavy bolters and back pedal the whole way. Other races, such as Necron, or Dark eldar could be introduced as raiding force and would offer up some interesting challenges...I mean imagine fighting a phalanx of necron warriors and watching those you killed getting back up and as you run up to get into close combat, their main weakness you get tied up with scarabs or flayed ones, or something else. With each army you have to approach them differently and each one adds alot of flavor, dont get me wrong, nids are all around nasty, but their lack of penetration  pretty much means he in a predator will mop up. Less they have a sniperfex or Ht with venom cannon, and even then not so much a problem.

6. Dark Angels. I get that Gw is pushing this space marine chapter as they just release the new codex and models not so long ago and they want to drive more interest and in turn sales, but really. Dark angels have a very sorted past, to say the least. The are in constant persuit of redemption because half the chapter went rogue. And to many who play warhammer 40k we gennerally look down on dark angel players as being a cheese noob army, and here is why.  Way to many plasma weapons. Plasma pretty much kills everything it hits minus terminators or anything with a 2+ or an inv save. 2nd on the cheese list is the massive, and I do mean Massive amount of terminator armors they have at their disposal. Im not kidding. I cant tell you how many matches I have played where people were using a whole terminator based army. And last but not least is the massive use of bikes and landspeeders. Hell they got one with an assualt cannon(which btw can slay even a tank or dred, and plasma battery(not sure what this does as I have yet to look up the dark angels codex, but knowing gw is probably a multi shot plasma cannon allowing the placement of several small blast markers causing plasma damage to all it touches. Oh yeah and its really really fast. This one vehicle alone could easily hold off 100 orcs with out much effort.

There should be later expansions to add others of the main chapters. By this I mean Blood Angels, Space wolves, Ultra Marines, etc. Pretty much if they make a special character for the chapter, put them in. Most of it will be identical to the models you already have in play, and all your doing is adding a paint scheme.  Now you could do the same with Chaos, but considering we already discussed the fact that any chaos power can be taken by chaos united, its kinda a moot point.

7. Progression and gear unlocks. One of the biggest fears is that much of the most sought after gear will be pay to win. To counter this the game should use a reputation system. The more you play and combat in the campaign the more you unlock to outfit your self with. Nothing is going to suck more then the noob kid who taxes his mom's credit card comes out with an iron halo artificer armor, master crafted plasma pistol, and a massive power sword on day 1.  Gear and weapons should be eanred through contribution, not through a credit card.

8. Customizing. Who here plays 40k and does not take that extra time to make their army special and look good. Hell I knew a chick who made the hello kitty chapter. It was sickening to say the least, but the time and care she took with it was amazing. Some of my old friends who no longer play would win awards left and right when ever they went to games day. So we are going to need something similar in this endeavor. Im not suggesting an all out painting app, but perhaps making sure all the small details are there. And in 40k thats a plethora of items. Many of which they could charge for.

9. Constant interaction. One of the death nails of many games is lack of content and interaction. For some reason many developers have not caught onto this. Wow has saddly thus its long standing history. If this game truly wants to take off it will need so dedicated, forum, event, campaign, and social media staff. And dont just make one person in charge of this spread it out and have them all work together. The more involved your player base is within the community the longer the game will last.

10. NO ORBITAL BOMBARDMENT. Yes I know a rather trivial suggestion, however hear me out. These planets we will be fighting on will have, Space marines, eldar, orcs, chaos, and NIDS. Now Eldar, Nids, and chaos can get about with out space trave(though they tend to have a fleet backing all their actions). Orcs and Space marines generally have fleets. Now true most of the orc fleet will simply crash into the planet and use the wreaks to build weapons, But still. Their would be some massive space combat going on at all times and having say a relay station capture allowing for an orbital bombardment would be rather stupid. Not to metion be very hard effectively use. Plus eldar would never use such a crude method of war.

 

This is awesome, mate!

I think that this will do well. I have faith! They have already made contact on this little post so I bet we will see more of them and they seem like a nice, small, down to earth company (almost innocent and fresh). They did make a big deal of keeping contact with the fans which I think they will hold up well. I LOVE the idea of Orks being weaker... I love chopping down unguarded targets in WAR so I think it will be a nice equivalent.

I must admit I am a bit too giddy and if it flops I will be shattered. Only time will tell... I will continue playing GW2 and even WAR (I am a sucker for the PVP, still) until it comes. I can't wait until we get an official forum so we can get some real discussion going. I am keen to read more fan comments - the WH40k community are actually bearable compared to some communities.

  safgril

Novice Member

Joined: 3/28/13
Posts: 7

6/27/13 2:56:15 PM#66
if this game takes on a FPS type game... I and I know many others wont play it.  FPS in MMOs just dont work.  not unless you are gonna make small boards and bgs style gameplay.  Then you lose the MMO feeling which wont be good.  
  safgril

Novice Member

Joined: 3/28/13
Posts: 7

6/27/13 4:04:06 PM#67
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc
Originally posted by Nighthawk77

I am actually very disappointed with the game. To say that Warhammer/40K isn't a Saturday tabletop game is completely wrong. They clearly have not heard of Dark Heresy/Black Crusade/Rogue Trader/Deathwatch/Only War by Fantasy Flight Games. The Warhammer 40K universe has such rich lore and detailed story, there is so much scope for a player to roleplay, and be a part of that story, even as a Space Marine. PvP centric games have die horribly in the past, and games MMO's with no end game don't keep players.

An MMORPG needs to be balanced in its play style or people will get board, especially the fans of the universe. It is true to say that 40K should be about everyone vs everyone else (with the occasional exception), but to make it only PvP, and not try to tell a story ... It leaves me feeling sad. THQ's Dark Millennium had its faults but they were willing to do a story with it. Do I want another WoW? No. But I would happily take a game that is like SWTOR crossed with TSW and Terra. Moral choice story lines, intrigue and thinking quests and dynamic combat. Have PvP in there too, and make sure its done properly, its not my cup of tea but people like it.

If you don't use the richness of universe, then there is no point the game being set there, it may as well be Starship Troopers of The Fifth Element the MMO for all the difference it will make.

what the hell u talking about! story.. swtor, moral choices... lol

 

you didnt play SWTOR did you?  you know, not only your class storyline you had pet storylines, quest storylines,  chain quests that basically had storylines.  Also the moral choices he is talking about like dark and light side decisions.  This affected your character.  Darkside gave you appearances and somewhat different story endings on a small scale but not on the huge storyline

 

But yeah the one thing games like this is cutting out is the players that enjoy pve.  They should have more then just pvp.  Plus crafting and housing etc.  otherwise, this game wont have much to do if you were say bored today about pvping.  I have had those days where I just wanted a break from pvp and i would go do something else.  If this game doesnt have that option, they may eventually shrink their playerbase because of it.

  TsaboHavoc

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/11
Posts: 340

6/27/13 4:36:27 PM#68
Originally posted by safgril
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc
Originally posted by Nighthawk77

I am actually very disappointed with the game. To say that Warhammer/40K isn't a Saturday tabletop game is completely wrong. They clearly have not heard of Dark Heresy/Black Crusade/Rogue Trader/Deathwatch/Only War by Fantasy Flight Games. The Warhammer 40K universe has such rich lore and detailed story, there is so much scope for a player to roleplay, and be a part of that story, even as a Space Marine. PvP centric games have die horribly in the past, and games MMO's with no end game don't keep players.

An MMORPG needs to be balanced in its play style or people will get board, especially the fans of the universe. It is true to say that 40K should be about everyone vs everyone else (with the occasional exception), but to make it only PvP, and not try to tell a story ... It leaves me feeling sad. THQ's Dark Millennium had its faults but they were willing to do a story with it. Do I want another WoW? No. But I would happily take a game that is like SWTOR crossed with TSW and Terra. Moral choice story lines, intrigue and thinking quests and dynamic combat. Have PvP in there too, and make sure its done properly, its not my cup of tea but people like it.

If you don't use the richness of universe, then there is no point the game being set there, it may as well be Starship Troopers of The Fifth Element the MMO for all the difference it will make.

what the hell u talking about! story.. swtor, moral choices... lol

 

you didnt play SWTOR did you?  you know, not only your class storyline you had pet storylines, quest storylines,  chain quests that basically had storylines.  Also the moral choices he is talking about like dark and light side decisions.  This affected your character.  Darkside gave you appearances and somewhat different story endings on a small scale but not on the huge storyline

 

But yeah the one thing games like this is cutting out is the players that enjoy pve.  They should have more then just pvp.  Plus crafting and housing etc.  otherwise, this game wont have much to do if you were say bored today about pvping.  I have had those days where I just wanted a break from pvp and i would go do something else.  If this game doesnt have that option, they may eventually shrink their playerbase because of it.

what wh40k have to do with all this crap u talking about?  THERE IS ONLY WAR!  goddammit im feeling like a fking alien with all this kids

  Dauntis

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 10/21/09
Posts: 443

6/28/13 1:03:57 AM#69

Although, I do want this game to be more than just a painted over PS2 and to have some PVE elements to it so that it brings you into the 40K world and not just the PVP battles. It should expand on the tabletop ( Though the PnP RPG is also really fun and should be seen as an example not just the miniature war games). However, housing and crafting really have no place in the 40K verse... you are a hardened warrior, all you need is a seat on a fleet vessel and then a seat on a drop ship... you don't need a pretty apartment with kitty posters. Your weapons and armor are ordanance, you don't craft them, I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of accomplishment system for getting improved ordanance... but busting down at a crafting table after collecting 1 billion plasma cells is just not the way this should go.

 

I would like to give an opinion on this post, but if I agree I will offend people who disagree. While if I disagree my comment will be seen as inflammatory. Either way I will get banned by this site full of the most delicate flowers in online gaming. Ban people for giving honest opinions... beautiful. Unfortunately I still like the articles.

  Muspilli

Novice Member

Joined: 2/18/08
Posts: 29

6/28/13 3:03:11 AM#70

Please DO NOT WASTE your time developing personal story lines. Too much time is invested, all we need is a couple GRIM DARK cut scenes, leave the rest to the player base.

What happened to telling our own stories? Living our own battles? Forging our own way? Somehow that has be lost in the fray...

  kedara

Novice Member

Joined: 6/19/09
Posts: 52

Just because you can't be nice, doesn't mean you shouldn't.

6/29/13 3:24:32 AM#71
I hope everything turns out better than Tabula Rasa.
  Nighthawk77

Novice Member

Joined: 6/27/13
Posts: 6

6/29/13 5:52:25 PM#72
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc
Originally posted by safgril
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc
Originally posted by Nighthawk77

I am actually very disappointed with the game. To say that Warhammer/40K isn't a Saturday tabletop game is completely wrong. They clearly have not heard of Dark Heresy/Black Crusade/Rogue Trader/Deathwatch/Only War by Fantasy Flight Games. The Warhammer 40K universe has such rich lore and detailed story, there is so much scope for a player to roleplay, and be a part of that story, even as a Space Marine. PvP centric games have die horribly in the past, and games MMO's with no end game don't keep players.

An MMORPG needs to be balanced in its play style or people will get board, especially the fans of the universe. It is true to say that 40K should be about everyone vs everyone else (with the occasional exception), but to make it only PvP, and not try to tell a story ... It leaves me feeling sad. THQ's Dark Millennium had its faults but they were willing to do a story with it. Do I want another WoW? No. But I would happily take a game that is like SWTOR crossed with TSW and Terra. Moral choice story lines, intrigue and thinking quests and dynamic combat. Have PvP in there too, and make sure its done properly, its not my cup of tea but people like it.

If you don't use the richness of universe, then there is no point the game being set there, it may as well be Starship Troopers of The Fifth Element the MMO for all the difference it will make.

what the hell u talking about! story.. swtor, moral choices... lol

 

you didnt play SWTOR did you?  you know, not only your class storyline you had pet storylines, quest storylines,  chain quests that basically had storylines.  Also the moral choices he is talking about like dark and light side decisions.  This affected your character.  Darkside gave you appearances and somewhat different story endings on a small scale but not on the huge storyline

 

But yeah the one thing games like this is cutting out is the players that enjoy pve.  They should have more then just pvp.  Plus crafting and housing etc.  otherwise, this game wont have much to do if you were say bored today about pvping.  I have had those days where I just wanted a break from pvp and i would go do something else.  If this game doesnt have that option, they may eventually shrink their playerbase because of it.

what wh40k have to do with all this crap u talking about?  THERE IS ONLY WAR!  goddammit im feeling like a fking alien with all this kids

Kids? I may not be as old as you Sir, but I am no child.

 

"There is only war" Is the tag line for the miniatures game, and is something that should be taken into account, but you can do that through the story telling. Warhammer 40K has been around since 1987, and the story has been developed ever since then. From the wonderfully illustrated Horus Heresy books, to the hundreds of novels published by Games Workshops Black Library, to just the flavor pieces in codexes.

The game has twenty six years of story behind it, spanning over eleven thousand years of in-universe time. There is a lot of passion behind the story, and it is an incredibly rich setting. I started playing the miniatures game in 1995, and even though I stopped playing the game about eleven years later, I continued reading the books, because I loved the setting. I now run pen and paper roleplaying games, twice a week, using the Fantasy Flight Games published books, as mentioned in my previous post.

There is always a story to tell about the universe. Hell, when I played in the Medusa V campaign in 2006, Games Workshop encouraged us to write battle reports in character, and the best ones would get published in the weekly report. In an MMO setting morality plays a big part too, especially for the Imperium. Can you emulate the Adeptus Soritas and be a zealot of the Imperial Creed, and be 100% Xenophobic, or be like they Grey Knights and be incorruptible in the face of the Great Enemy? Or are you out for riches and wealth like so many Rogue Traders, content to deal and trade with Xenos to put a few extra Throne Gelt in your pocket? Or are you sick of the restriction of knowledge, the oppression of the Ecclesiarchy, and tedium of the Administratum, pooling their moral corruption together and claiming it is in the name of the Emperor? That rotting Corpse, locked away on a throne of Gold, worshiped as a God, yet does nothing? Are you sliding into the embrace of the Four? Traditional, stoic, and the undying of Nurgle? The rage, battle lust, and honour of martial duty of Khorne? The perverse lust of excessive sensation of Slaanesh? Or the ever changing, knowledge and power loving Tzeentch? Mortal Humans have so many choices, and the universe is so morally grey, so those choices are hard. Even abhumans such as the ratlings, ogryns, squats, navigators, asteopaths, psykers and chemical-mutants (not warp-mutants) have to chose to try and fit in with a society that hates and fears them or embrace the Dark Gods.

Xenos have morality too. The Eldar have the difficult choice of being pure or being fervently devoted to Slaanesh in the hopes that "She who thirsts" does not consume their soul when they die (Eldar vs Dark Eldar), and then whether the Mon Keigh (Humans) should be educated to avoid Chaos or simply purged from the Galaxy before they make the same mistakes they did long ago. Even simple Orks have morality, but on a different wave length. Is dae de stompiest or is dae de kunningest? Do dae keep all the dakka for dem selves or do dae give it to dere boyz to brin' more loyalty?

If you want an in universe example of story over war, I will point you at the Inquisition. They lurk in the shadow and manipulate things more often than they go to war. They search and investigate, they involve themselves in the recovery of artifacts, and they conduct experimentation on both Xenos and Warp beings and Tech to learn how to beat them. They even have internal conflicts when some parts of them think the others have gone too far. Sure they will get into fights too, but they dont go looking for them.

I hope this wall of text serves to demonstrate that there is a lot more to the universe than just combat. I personally dont like PvP, I had bad experiences of it in WoW, and over the years of MMO's I have never really found anything to draw me back into it. I will not buy Eternal Crusade if it is just going to be a PvP game, and I will be deeply saddened that I wont be playing the 40K MMO. The Warhammer 40K universe is my favorite setting, and I know there is so much more that can be done with it that just a PvP game.

 

tl:dr - Stroy has every right to be in a Warhammer 40K game.

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5244

6/30/13 3:32:01 AM#73

Phjillee raises a good point if Orks can have paying players and get all the F2P players their side will dominant.

As he says give each faction a F2P option, Guardsmen for Space Marines and so on. Or you could limit the number of paying Orks, but if you do nothing imbalance will follow.

  TsaboHavoc

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/11
Posts: 340

6/30/13 7:02:52 AM#74
Originally posted by Nighthawk77
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc
Originally posted by safgril
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc
Originally posted by Nighthawk77

I am actually very disappointed with the game. To say that Warhammer/40K isn't a Saturday tabletop game is completely wrong. They clearly have not heard of Dark Heresy/Black Crusade/Rogue Trader/Deathwatch/Only War by Fantasy Flight Games. The Warhammer 40K universe has such rich lore and detailed story, there is so much scope for a player to roleplay, and be a part of that story, even as a Space Marine. PvP centric games have die horribly in the past, and games MMO's with no end game don't keep players.

An MMORPG needs to be balanced in its play style or people will get board, especially the fans of the universe. It is true to say that 40K should be about everyone vs everyone else (with the occasional exception), but to make it only PvP, and not try to tell a story ... It leaves me feeling sad. THQ's Dark Millennium had its faults but they were willing to do a story with it. Do I want another WoW? No. But I would happily take a game that is like SWTOR crossed with TSW and Terra. Moral choice story lines, intrigue and thinking quests and dynamic combat. Have PvP in there too, and make sure its done properly, its not my cup of tea but people like it.

If you don't use the richness of universe, then there is no point the game being set there, it may as well be Starship Troopers of The Fifth Element the MMO for all the difference it will make.

what the hell u talking about! story.. swtor, moral choices... lol

 

you didnt play SWTOR did you?  you know, not only your class storyline you had pet storylines, quest storylines,  chain quests that basically had storylines.  Also the moral choices he is talking about like dark and light side decisions.  This affected your character.  Darkside gave you appearances and somewhat different story endings on a small scale but not on the huge storyline

 

But yeah the one thing games like this is cutting out is the players that enjoy pve.  They should have more then just pvp.  Plus crafting and housing etc.  otherwise, this game wont have much to do if you were say bored today about pvping.  I have had those days where I just wanted a break from pvp and i would go do something else.  If this game doesnt have that option, they may eventually shrink their playerbase because of it.

what wh40k have to do with all this crap u talking about?  THERE IS ONLY WAR!  goddammit im feeling like a fking alien with all this kids

Kids? I may not be as old as you Sir, but I am no child.

 

"There is only war" Is the tag line for the miniatures game, and is something that should be taken into account, but you can do that through the story telling. Warhammer 40K has been around since 1987, and the story has been developed ever since then. From the wonderfully illustrated Horus Heresy books, to the hundreds of novels published by Games Workshops Black Library, to just the flavor pieces in codexes.

The game has twenty six years of story behind it, spanning over eleven thousand years of in-universe time. There is a lot of passion behind the story, and it is an incredibly rich setting. I started playing the miniatures game in 1995, and even though I stopped playing the game about eleven years later, I continued reading the books, because I loved the setting. I now run pen and paper roleplaying games, twice a week, using the Fantasy Flight Games published books, as mentioned in my previous post.

There is always a story to tell about the universe. Hell, when I played in the Medusa V campaign in 2006, Games Workshop encouraged us to write battle reports in character, and the best ones would get published in the weekly report. In an MMO setting morality plays a big part too, especially for the Imperium. Can you emulate the Adeptus Soritas and be a zealot of the Imperial Creed, and be 100% Xenophobic, or be like they Grey Knights and be incorruptible in the face of the Great Enemy? Or are you out for riches and wealth like so many Rogue Traders, content to deal and trade with Xenos to put a few extra Throne Gelt in your pocket? Or are you sick of the restriction of knowledge, the oppression of the Ecclesiarchy, and tedium of the Administratum, pooling their moral corruption together and claiming it is in the name of the Emperor? That rotting Corpse, locked away on a throne of Gold, worshiped as a God, yet does nothing? Are you sliding into the embrace of the Four? Traditional, stoic, and the undying of Nurgle? The rage, battle lust, and honour of martial duty of Khorne? The perverse lust of excessive sensation of Slaanesh? Or the ever changing, knowledge and power loving Tzeentch? Mortal Humans have so many choices, and the universe is so morally grey, so those choices are hard. Even abhumans such as the ratlings, ogryns, squats, navigators, asteopaths, psykers and chemical-mutants (not warp-mutants) have to chose to try and fit in with a society that hates and fears them or embrace the Dark Gods.

Xenos have morality too. The Eldar have the difficult choice of being pure or being fervently devoted to Slaanesh in the hopes that "She who thirsts" does not consume their soul when they die (Eldar vs Dark Eldar), and then whether the Mon Keigh (Humans) should be educated to avoid Chaos or simply purged from the Galaxy before they make the same mistakes they did long ago. Even simple Orks have morality, but on a different wave length. Is dae de stompiest or is dae de kunningest? Do dae keep all the dakka for dem selves or do dae give it to dere boyz to brin' more loyalty?

If you want an in universe example of story over war, I will point you at the Inquisition. They lurk in the shadow and manipulate things more often than they go to war. They search and investigate, they involve themselves in the recovery of artifacts, and they conduct experimentation on both Xenos and Warp beings and Tech to learn how to beat them. They even have internal conflicts when some parts of them think the others have gone too far. Sure they will get into fights too, but they dont go looking for them.

I hope this wall of text serves to demonstrate that there is a lot more to the universe than just combat. I personally dont like PvP, I had bad experiences of it in WoW, and over the years of MMO's I have never really found anything to draw me back into it. I will not buy Eternal Crusade if it is just going to be a PvP game, and I will be deeply saddened that I wont be playing the 40K MMO. The Warhammer 40K universe is my favorite setting, and I know there is so much more that can be done with it that just a PvP game.

 

tl:dr - Stroy has every right to be in a Warhammer 40K game.

thats the problem, the wh40k universe is so rich and complex that its almost impossible (not to say impossible) to develop a mmorpg that would translate well all of the IP. if u ask me the only way, i would say PnP with ppl that know the lore, period. 40k its not A or B , its much deep, i dont want to see they turn this into another swtor with ridiculous boring artificial nom meaningful choices that everybody pass throug, "oh i lost my ring for the 45385 time, u bring to me or keep to yourself". From my point of view, they are tryin to bring the lore in a direct and honest way," lets take the part we can do well" (WAR), and lets give the players the power to war the way they want, freedom, to act in the orgy and carnage  thats a good chunk of 40k.

  TsaboHavoc

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/11
Posts: 340

6/30/13 7:18:51 AM#75
Originally posted by Scot

Phjillee raises a good point if Orks can have paying players and get all the F2P players their side will dominant.

As he says give each faction a F2P option, Guardsmen for Space Marines and so on. Or you could limit the number of paying Orks, but if you do nothing imbalance will follow.

they will be so irrelevant, undisciplined and stupid  that wont make much of a diference. Actually if u think about its all about the lore, the orks could easily crush everyone, but they are so...."ramdom, caotic,stupid as group and detached" that they cant see this.. like F2P players are ... oh wait..;p

  Nighthawk77

Novice Member

Joined: 6/27/13
Posts: 6

6/30/13 9:03:47 AM#76
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc
thats the problem, the wh40k universe is so rich and complex that its almost impossible (not to say impossible) to develop a mmorpg that would translate well all of the IP. if u ask me the only way, i would say PnP with ppl that know the lore, period. 40k its not A or B , its much deep, i dont want to see they turn this into another swtor with ridiculous boring artificial nom meaningful choices that everybody pass throug, "oh i lost my ring for the 45385 time, u bring to me or keep to yourself". From my point of view, they are tryin to bring the lore in a direct and honest way," lets take the part we can do well" (WAR), and lets give the players the power to war the way they want, freedom, to act in the orgy and carnage  thats a good chunk of 40k.

I agree that quests can't be lost ring fetch quests, but it is not that difficult to create meaningful quests. Thats why I mentioned TSW in my original post. There are brilliant quests that make you think for the answer. War without meaning is certainly a part of the games mechanics, but it is not the whole game. Why would the Imperium not just Exterminatus the world as it has so many Xenos and Heretics on it? There must be something of importance there, either to the Imperium or to the Dark Angles in general. What are Chaos after? No Chaos Legion still fights as it did during the Horus Heresy, internal fractures has split them into Warbands. For a warband the size we are going to see, or perhaps several working together, means that there is something of significance going on. Maybe Perturabo himself has rallied his Iron Warriors back together for this campaign.

If the battle lasts for a long time (which I am sure they hope it will given that it is an MMO) why do the Mechanicus not deploy Titans? Why does Chaos unleash the Daemon Engines (Iron Warriors use Daemon Engines a great deal after all)?

The argument of "Oh we have to fight them because they are not us" is as silly as "Go find my lost ring". Without using the story or the flavour of the setting, then it may as well just be an original IP instead of using the 40K tie in.

I know there will be people who will always want more. I have already seen people say "I wont play/buy this game until I can be Tau". But it unreasonable to ask a team to do everyone at first and expect it to be good. I am happy to let them to focus of Four core races and do others as expansions.

If only PvP is the goad why not let Players be Tyranids? They could be Genestealers, make use of stealth mechanics, give them a limited use bioweapon for range. In combat their claws are sharp enough to go through power armour like butter, so no issues with balance. For a story perspective they are bad, because they have limited free will, due to the hive mind, and they dont really speak, so bad for story. But this is not going to be a story based game.

These inconsistencies bother me, because it shows so much wasted potential.

  TsaboHavoc

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/11
Posts: 340

6/30/13 9:28:37 AM#77
Originally posted by Nighthawk77
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc
thats the problem, the wh40k universe is so rich and complex that its almost impossible (not to say impossible) to develop a mmorpg that would translate well all of the IP. if u ask me the only way, i would say PnP with ppl that know the lore, period. 40k its not A or B , its much deep, i dont want to see they turn this into another swtor with ridiculous boring artificial nom meaningful choices that everybody pass throug, "oh i lost my ring for the 45385 time, u bring to me or keep to yourself". From my point of view, they are tryin to bring the lore in a direct and honest way," lets take the part we can do well" (WAR), and lets give the players the power to war the way they want, freedom, to act in the orgy and carnage  thats a good chunk of 40k.

I agree that quests can't be lost ring fetch quests, but it is not that difficult to create meaningful quests. Thats why I mentioned TSW in my original post. There are brilliant quests that make you think for the answer. War without meaning is certainly a part of the games mechanics, but it is not the whole game. Why would the Imperium not just Exterminatus the world as it has so many Xenos and Heretics on it? There must be something of importance there, either to the Imperium or to the Dark Angles in general. What are Chaos after? No Chaos Legion still fights as it did during the Horus Heresy, internal fractures has split them into Warbands. For a warband the size we are going to see, or perhaps several working together, means that there is something of significance going on. Maybe Perturabo himself has rallied his Iron Warriors back together for this campaign.

If the battle lasts for a long time (which I am sure they hope it will given that it is an MMO) why do the Mechanicus not deploy Titans? Why does Chaos unleash the Daemon Engines (Iron Warriors use Daemon Engines a great deal after all)?

The argument of "Oh we have to fight them because they are not us" is as silly as "Go find my lost ring". Without using the story or the flavour of the setting, then it may as well just be an original IP instead of using the 40K tie in.

I know there will be people who will always want more. I have already seen people say "I wont play/buy this game until I can be Tau". But it unreasonable to ask a team to do everyone at first and expect it to be good. I am happy to let them to focus of Four core races and do others as expansions.

If only PvP is the goad why not let Players be Tyranids? They could be Genestealers, make use of stealth mechanics, give them a limited use bioweapon for range. In combat their claws are sharp enough to go through power armour like butter, so no issues with balance. For a story perspective they are bad, because they have limited free will, due to the hive mind, and they dont really speak, so bad for story. But this is not going to be a story based game.

These inconsistencies bother me, because it shows so much wasted potential.

it wont be a quest game, but everything will be explained in the background lore, dont worry, also i find funny when ppl say "i want to play the flying hairy oddball that appearn Codex X page 22, if not this game will sux and i wont play", geez the bread and butter are there, space marine, orks, chaos, eldar... patience..

  Nighthawk77

Novice Member

Joined: 6/27/13
Posts: 6

6/30/13 9:47:51 AM#78
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc
Originally posted by Nighthawk77
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc
thats the problem, the wh40k universe is so rich and complex that its almost impossible (not to say impossible) to develop a mmorpg that would translate well all of the IP. if u ask me the only way, i would say PnP with ppl that know the lore, period. 40k its not A or B , its much deep, i dont want to see they turn this into another swtor with ridiculous boring artificial nom meaningful choices that everybody pass throug, "oh i lost my ring for the 45385 time, u bring to me or keep to yourself". From my point of view, they are tryin to bring the lore in a direct and honest way," lets take the part we can do well" (WAR), and lets give the players the power to war the way they want, freedom, to act in the orgy and carnage  thats a good chunk of 40k.

I agree that quests can't be lost ring fetch quests, but it is not that difficult to create meaningful quests. Thats why I mentioned TSW in my original post. There are brilliant quests that make you think for the answer. War without meaning is certainly a part of the games mechanics, but it is not the whole game. Why would the Imperium not just Exterminatus the world as it has so many Xenos and Heretics on it? There must be something of importance there, either to the Imperium or to the Dark Angles in general. What are Chaos after? No Chaos Legion still fights as it did during the Horus Heresy, internal fractures has split them into Warbands. For a warband the size we are going to see, or perhaps several working together, means that there is something of significance going on. Maybe Perturabo himself has rallied his Iron Warriors back together for this campaign.

If the battle lasts for a long time (which I am sure they hope it will given that it is an MMO) why do the Mechanicus not deploy Titans? Why does Chaos unleash the Daemon Engines (Iron Warriors use Daemon Engines a great deal after all)?

The argument of "Oh we have to fight them because they are not us" is as silly as "Go find my lost ring". Without using the story or the flavour of the setting, then it may as well just be an original IP instead of using the 40K tie in.

I know there will be people who will always want more. I have already seen people say "I wont play/buy this game until I can be Tau". But it unreasonable to ask a team to do everyone at first and expect it to be good. I am happy to let them to focus of Four core races and do others as expansions.

If only PvP is the goad why not let Players be Tyranids? They could be Genestealers, make use of stealth mechanics, give them a limited use bioweapon for range. In combat their claws are sharp enough to go through power armour like butter, so no issues with balance. For a story perspective they are bad, because they have limited free will, due to the hive mind, and they dont really speak, so bad for story. But this is not going to be a story based game.

These inconsistencies bother me, because it shows so much wasted potential.

it wont be a quest game, but everything will be explained in the background lore, dont worry, also i find funny when ppl say "i want to play the flying hairy oddball that appearn Codex X page 22, if not this game will sux and i wont play", geez the bread and butter are there, space marine, orks, chaos, eldar... patience..

I dont think, just having it explained in the background lore is enough, not for a MMO. The more I think about it, the more this game feels like Call of Duty 40K. I just feel it deserves more. People will just be doing the same shit over and over again, grow tired of it and quit.

  TsaboHavoc

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/11
Posts: 340

6/30/13 10:05:32 AM#79
Originally posted by Nighthawk77
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc
Originally posted by Nighthawk77
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc
thats the problem, the wh40k universe is so rich and complex that its almost impossible (not to say impossible) to develop a mmorpg that would translate well all of the IP. if u ask me the only way, i would say PnP with ppl that know the lore, period. 40k its not A or B , its much deep, i dont want to see they turn this into another swtor with ridiculous boring artificial nom meaningful choices that everybody pass throug, "oh i lost my ring for the 45385 time, u bring to me or keep to yourself". From my point of view, they are tryin to bring the lore in a direct and honest way," lets take the part we can do well" (WAR), and lets give the players the power to war the way they want, freedom, to act in the orgy and carnage  thats a good chunk of 40k.

I agree that quests can't be lost ring fetch quests, but it is not that difficult to create meaningful quests. Thats why I mentioned TSW in my original post. There are brilliant quests that make you think for the answer. War without meaning is certainly a part of the games mechanics, but it is not the whole game. Why would the Imperium not just Exterminatus the world as it has so many Xenos and Heretics on it? There must be something of importance there, either to the Imperium or to the Dark Angles in general. What are Chaos after? No Chaos Legion still fights as it did during the Horus Heresy, internal fractures has split them into Warbands. For a warband the size we are going to see, or perhaps several working together, means that there is something of significance going on. Maybe Perturabo himself has rallied his Iron Warriors back together for this campaign.

If the battle lasts for a long time (which I am sure they hope it will given that it is an MMO) why do the Mechanicus not deploy Titans? Why does Chaos unleash the Daemon Engines (Iron Warriors use Daemon Engines a great deal after all)?

The argument of "Oh we have to fight them because they are not us" is as silly as "Go find my lost ring". Without using the story or the flavour of the setting, then it may as well just be an original IP instead of using the 40K tie in.

I know there will be people who will always want more. I have already seen people say "I wont play/buy this game until I can be Tau". But it unreasonable to ask a team to do everyone at first and expect it to be good. I am happy to let them to focus of Four core races and do others as expansions.

If only PvP is the goad why not let Players be Tyranids? They could be Genestealers, make use of stealth mechanics, give them a limited use bioweapon for range. In combat their claws are sharp enough to go through power armour like butter, so no issues with balance. For a story perspective they are bad, because they have limited free will, due to the hive mind, and they dont really speak, so bad for story. But this is not going to be a story based game.

These inconsistencies bother me, because it shows so much wasted potential.

it wont be a quest game, but everything will be explained in the background lore, dont worry, also i find funny when ppl say "i want to play the flying hairy oddball that appearn Codex X page 22, if not this game will sux and i wont play", geez the bread and butter are there, space marine, orks, chaos, eldar... patience..

I dont think, just having it explained in the background lore is enough, not for a MMO. The more I think about it, the more this game feels like Call of Duty 40K. I just feel it deserves more. People will just be doing the same shit over and over again, grow tired of it and quit.

its impossible to do justice to wh40k complexity in a mmorpg, and quests would make the game feel artificial instead of the organic feeling they areaiming for, giving players the freedom to fight where they want when they want in a fully dinamic planet changing all the time due to war. try to think as u in the skin of a unit in DoW in a 4 faction warfare.

  Nighthawk77

Novice Member

Joined: 6/27/13
Posts: 6

6/30/13 11:08:55 AM#80
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc
its impossible to do justice to wh40k complexity in a mmorpg, and quests would make the game feel artificial instead of the organic feeling they areaiming for, giving players the freedom to fight where they want when they want in a fully dinamic planet changing all the time due to war. try to think as u in the skin of a unit in DoW in a 4 faction warfare.

Quests dont feel artificial if they are done right. Lets take the game "Space Marine" as an example. In the opening go jumpack down onto an Ork ship, but you lose contact with the rest of your squad, so you have to fight through hordes of Orks to regroup with them. Thats a quest. It feels right too, you want to maintain squad cohesion so you fight to get your Brothers back. Relieving the Imperial Guard forces is another quest. Again it feels right because you want to protect the noble soldiers of the Imperium. Then getting to the Inquisitor. Thats damn important because he might know whats going on, why the Orks are so organised, and what they are after.

Space Marine was a fighting game, but it told its story well, and you got what you wanted out of it, a pretty good FPS, and it felt organic.

Doing that on an open world scale is possible. Have your faction commander vox missions to you. For the Eldar have someone drop out of a Webway gate with your orders, and then have the NPC busy with resealing the Webway so they dont join you. Practical and keeps immersion intact.

If you want it to keep feeling fresh, do what GW2 did, and scale your level to the area, with the maximum being the level you have earned. That way you can always have a challenge, and you pick up new skills or weapons along the way (or even terminator armour).

You can keep the World changing by doing RIFT/GW2 like area events: A squad of Dark Angels deepstrike in and start building fortifications / A Warp Gate opens and a horde of Daemons poor out / A Webway gate lets out a Screaming Banshie Strike Force / A Rok crashes into the planet spilling forth more Orks for the Waaaaagh! / A Tyranid burrower bursts out of the ground disgorging a myriad of Hormagaunts and Termagaunts lead by a Warrior form.

You can have open World raids for the end game content. Have Perturabo's fortress, that you can seige, and High level Chaos can defend it. Give the Dark Angles a Mechanicum Titan Works, and have the final fight be against a Titan. Again letting the Dark Angles defend it. Have the Ork's Warboss be surrounded by a swarm or Nobz, Gruntz, and Boyz, throw in Killa Kanz, and Squigs. Have him roam the High level areas and be a mobile raid. Let the Orks find him and protect their Warboss. Something similar for the Eldar too, maybe an Avatar of Kaine?

"Oh but then they will kill our faction leader" Perturabo is a Daemon Prince, unless he is killed in the warp he doesn't die, he'll be back. Titans can be rebuilt. The next Stompiest Ork takes the Bosses stuff and proclaimes himself "de biggest and de strongest". Avatars can be resummoned. Problems solved, and their you have three raids for your faction to fight, and one for your faction to defend.

Organic quest lines. Dynamic Worlds events. Organic raids. Not so hard.

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