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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Developers change the name of a feature, but calls it a new idea. You get hyped over this. How you fall for this same trick?

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53 posts found
  Fdzzaigl

Elite Member

Joined: 8/22/09
Posts: 2092

6/27/13 6:23:41 AM#21

Hearts =\= quests. Last time I checked walking into an area and doing various acitivities that automatically add to your progress isn't comparable to first talking to an NPC before getting assigned a specific activity.

A better comparison would've been dynamic events = public events. Because they pretty much are.

Yes, what you say is true, this is used quite often and it's a common marketing technique. Most apparent example right now would be Wildstar's "telegraphs" imo. Circles on the ground have been used for many years.

Still why do people fall for it: because they haven't seen the game yet, a re-branded name might also come with a few new tricks and depending on the way a concept is handled, the same idea in a new environment might work much better, or much worse.

Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  GroovyFlower

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/11
Posts: 1252

Skyrim

6/27/13 6:33:52 AM#22
Originally posted by Scalpless
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by Naqaj

Arenanet didn't take credit for creating dynamic quests, what they did first was basing the entire core PvE gameplay of an MMO around those events. 

The hearts actually came later in development when they found out MMO players are so conditioned by their former MMOs that they willingly ignore the events despite all the visual feedback, unless they get a UI element (heart) that makes it look like a quest.

 I love how you're so able to completely forget all of their interviews and videos touting how they created dynamic events that would shape the game's world and players story.

They did create all the DEs. They didn't invent the concept of public quests, but that's irrelevant. The great thing about GW2's DEs isn't that they're the first of their kind. It's that they're used well as the primary PvE and leveling content instead of quests. Yeah, Rift, WAR and AO had similar features, but they were either minor (Rifts, alien invasions) or the game just sucked (WAR).

Let me demonstrate how great GW2's DEs are via an example:

The traditional model:

I travel to a village. Some guy tells me orcs are attacking this village. I go out and see some orcs wander around aimlessly and have to kill 10 of them to progress my quest. Nothing happens if I ignore this quest. I ask a friend to help me in this epic battle. He can only do that if we party up. After I've completed the quest, I can still see orcs wandering around. Wait, didn't I just push them back? Why are they still here?

GW2's model:

I travel to a village. Some guy tells me centaurs are attacking this village. I can see centaurs run through the village, setting things on fire and killing villagers. I ask a friend to help me in this epic battle. He can simply help me, without using a metagame construct like parties. I complete the quest by killing enough centaurs, forcing them to retreat. Maybe they'll attempt to attack the village again later on, but for a while it returns to being its peaceful self. If I ignored this event, the village would've gotten pillaged by centaurs, making its NPCs unavailable and opening up DEs to take this village back.

Sure, you still kill some stuff and get XP, but GW2's event is so much more believable than the quest the two can't even be compared. THAT's why GW2's events are great and traditional quests suck.

Ok, I'l admit I'm bored. This'll probably get ignored, anyway, and stupid comments like "lol GW2 fan think ANet invented dynamic content!" will continue.

In gw2 its even better you dont have walk to npc at all(manytimes they come run up to you even telling you to help them) you just start killing centours and you doing quest but killing mobs your friend dont have party or go to npc also he just help wallah DYNAMIC event.

  Doogiehowser

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1939

6/27/13 6:34:46 AM#23
Originally posted by waynejr2

If something has a negative association some people will follow the herd and hate it.  Change the name and suddenly they feel they can love it without the negative association.  That or they are not as bright as you'd want them to be.

+1

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell

"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney

  GroovyFlower

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/11
Posts: 1252

Skyrim

6/27/13 6:39:35 AM#24

Other example of quest you see group of children at village and some boy is talking to other kids some little story or whatever. And some kid say you wont dare, other kid say ok i will you follow him and he just run out to some place(remember i just listend and follow never talked to any npc kid or other npc) he then see you near he ask can you help me and dynamic events starts thats GW2.

Random events thats just happen if you pay attention no ! above head or npc's waiting you come to them asking for quest no you just experience it dynamicly.

OP is totally wrong with is assumptions GW2 just have same quest as other games thats just NOT TRUE.

  tokini

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/03/07
Posts: 345

6/27/13 6:48:44 AM#25

i can understand the re-naming in terms of game 'flavor', like a rift in RIFT is supposed to be an opening between dimensions, yeah its essentially just a public quest but that wouldnt sound as good in terms of game lore.

beyond that OP is right. gw2 has quests, you just have to wait for them to start up, instead of clicking an ! npc (or in the case of the hearts you do just that haha). almost all the DE come down to 'do this so many times' until the next phase (next part in the quest line) starts.

 

i guess new features are hard to come up with, so they try to tweak the way old ones are implemented.

  zymurgeist

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/24/04
Posts: 5186

6/27/13 6:50:15 AM#26
When you overgeneralize everything sounds stupid. I can't believe so many of you haven't caught on to this trick. People must not be very bright. I'm such a special snowflake for having thought of this after so many billions of other people have. We are the elite majority. Ignore the small but often significant differences. Worship the masters of the obvious. /eyeroll

"Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  Scalpless

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/22/07
Posts: 1300

6/27/13 7:29:22 AM#27
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

I think you've missed the whole topic pertaining to the renaming of a feature in  newer games.

OP claimed people were excited because GW2 replaced quests with Hearts. I explained why people were excited. It's because it replaced quests with Dynamic Events, not Hearts. There's a huge difference there. Similarly, people recognized that CU's stealth mechanic was stealth, but with a twist. They simply liked the twist. As for Rift's Rifts, I guess people were excited about public quests in a game that doesn't suck.

The point is that the renaming of those features was never of any importance. People get excited because of the way these games used those features, not because of the basic premise behind them.

  Rayshe

Novice Member

Joined: 11/30/11
Posts: 1295

6/27/13 7:37:10 AM#28

I believe its "Go with the Flow" Hate. Personally ive seen it many times where somone jumps into a thread just to hype or hate on something. some people dont actually know what is positive or negitive about it, they just want to join the conversation. So they join the hate. Thus it really doesnt matter if its just a name change, people dont actually learn what the feature is. they just hate it because somone else does.

Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  User Deleted
6/27/13 7:38:44 AM#29

They don't call it 'brand new ideas' do they? No, they call it 'innovative' which is exactly what it is. All those things you listed are forms of innovation, an evolution of existing ideas.  There have been very few brand new ideas that have come from nowhere, especially in this era of bloated knowledge. Most new products are just evolutions of existing ideas, even if they seem like brand new ideas to you.

If people want to get excited about this then who are you to judge?  I am sure you get excited about plenty of things that I couldn't care less about.

  User Deleted
6/27/13 7:53:55 AM#30
Originally posted by bcbully
Incredible isn't it? I was talking to my aunt about this the other day,. I think maybe only 30% of the population is capable of critical thinking. It's like the other 70%'s DNA is different. I just don't get them.

A buddy of mine is a university professor and told me a while back that he gets very frustrated with students these days. "They have no ability to think empirically", he says. "They cannot differentiate good data from bad". A good example: He regularly returns papers for rewrite that use Wikipedia entries as references.

  Divona

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/02/11
Posts: 165

6/27/13 8:01:07 AM#31

This is mobile phone:

This is smartphones:

This is bacon:

This is Pancetta:

Can you point out the different in each of these similar looking thing but different name?

/sarcasm

I don't understand how many of you fall for this same form of marketing and hype.

/end sarcasm

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12258

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Project Gorgon, and Combat Arms

6/27/13 2:15:35 PM#32
Originally posted by Scalpless
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

I think you've missed the whole topic pertaining to the renaming of a feature in  newer games.

OP claimed people were excited because GW2 replaced quests with Hearts. I explained why people were excited. It's because it replaced quests with Dynamic Events, not Hearts. There's a huge difference there. Similarly, people recognized that CU's stealth mechanic was stealth, but with a twist. They simply liked the twist. As for Rift's Rifts, I guess people were excited about public quests in a game that doesn't suck.

The point is that the renaming of those features was never of any importance. People get excited because of the way these games used those features, not because of the basic premise behind them.

+1  

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Serelisk

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/02/11
Posts: 845

6/27/13 2:26:38 PM#33
I've never heard of Pancetta before today but by god do I want it.
  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7241

6/27/13 2:37:06 PM#34
Originally posted by topographic
Originally posted by bcbully
Incredible isn't it? I was talking to my aunt about this the other day,. I think maybe only 30% of the population is capable of critical thinking. It's like the other 70%'s DNA is different. I just don't get them.

A buddy of mine is a university professor and told me a while back that he gets very frustrated with students these days. "They have no ability to think empirically", he says. "They cannot differentiate good data from bad". A good example: He regularly returns papers for rewrite that use Wikipedia entries as references.

It was my second grade teacher who told me to go home and read the paper. She said read it  with a critical eye.

 

more to your example, hoe about quoting theonion.com or the daily show and citing it as a source. 

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  Lokberg

Elite Member

Joined: 12/24/05
Posts: 310

6/27/13 2:40:04 PM#35
Originally posted by topographic
Originally posted by bcbully
Incredible isn't it? I was talking to my aunt about this the other day,. I think maybe only 30% of the population is capable of critical thinking. It's like the other 70%'s DNA is different. I just don't get them.

A buddy of mine is a university professor and told me a while back that he gets very frustrated with students these days. "They have no ability to think empirically", he says. "They cannot differentiate good data from bad". A good example: He regularly returns papers for rewrite that use Wikipedia entries as references.

Honest question why people from usa generaly distrust wikipedia?

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2693

6/27/13 4:27:02 PM#36
Originally posted by Scalpless
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

I think you've missed the whole topic pertaining to the renaming of a feature in  newer games.

OP claimed people were excited because GW2 replaced quests with Hearts. I explained why people were excited. It's because it replaced quests with Dynamic Events, not Hearts. There's a huge difference there. Similarly, people recognized that CU's stealth mechanic was stealth, but with a twist. They simply liked the twist. As for Rift's Rifts, I guess people were excited about public quests in a game that doesn't suck.

The point is that the renaming of those features was never of any importance. People get excited because of the way these games used those features, not because of the basic premise behind them.

 Dynamic events/hearts are the quests for GW2. Which is Arena Net simply renaming them so that the customer doesn't feel like they're grinding quests. It's renamed content.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Scalpless

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/22/07
Posts: 1300

6/27/13 4:51:55 PM#37
Originally posted by Lokberg

Honest question why people from usa generaly distrust wikipedia?

I was going to write something, but then found this article. It's rather good IMO:

http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news/education/2010/march/The-Top-10-Reasons-Students-Cannot-Cite-or-Rely-on-Wikipedia.html

Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

 Dynamic events/hearts are the quests for GW2. Which is Arena Net simply renaming them so that the customer doesn't feel like they're grinding quests. It's renamed content.

Actually, you're be right. The only things that make DEs different from normal quests are that they change the areas in minor ways like opening dungeons, automatically support group play, actually show you what's happening instead of telling you, scale based on the number of players, are repeatable, can fail, are sometimes zone-wide and require coordinated effort from entire guilds, don't have any quest entries or NPCs, move around, often happen in PvP and can take place even without any players around.

It's all minor stuff. In the end, you do things and get XP, so they're just like quests and GW2 is a WoW clone. I mean, both games have lizards in them and you can hit stuff and get loot.

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2693

6/27/13 5:01:12 PM#38
Originally posted by Scalpless
Originally posted by Lokberg

Honest question why people from usa generaly distrust wikipedia?

I was going to write something, but then found this article. It's rather good IMO:

http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news/education/2010/march/The-Top-10-Reasons-Students-Cannot-Cite-or-Rely-on-Wikipedia.html

Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

 Dynamic events/hearts are the quests for GW2. Which is Arena Net simply renaming them so that the customer doesn't feel like they're grinding quests. It's renamed content.

Actually, you're be right. The only things that make DEs different from normal quests are that they change the areas in minor ways like opening dungeons, automatically support group play, actually show you what's happening instead of telling you, scale based on the number of players, are repeatable, can fail, are sometimes zone-wide and require coordinated effort from entire guilds, don't have any quest entries or NPCs, move around, often happen in PvP and can take place even without any players around.

It's all minor stuff. In the end, you do things and get XP, so they're just like quests and GW2 is a WoW clone. I mean, both games have lizards in them and you can hit stuff and get loot.

  Well I would have imagined Arena Net would have looked at the rift system within RIFT. From what I've listened from Guild Wars 2 they use to talk about how a town would become attacked by a group of centaurs. It'd be nice to actually see the Centaurs actually take control of the town if they were successful. Like how RIFT's system had control points for their NPC's. 

 I'm also not calling any game a 'WoW clone' MMO's play like other MMO's and I'm fine with that. But don't paint a turd gold and call it a golden nugget; it's still a turd.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  godpuppet

Novice Member

Joined: 12/06/05
Posts: 1428

6/27/13 5:12:51 PM#39
Originally posted by Scalpless

I travel to a village. Some guy tells me centaurs are attacking this village. I can see centaurs run through the village, setting things on fire and killing villagers. I ask a friend to help me in this epic battle. He can simply help me, without using a metagame construct like parties. I complete the quest by killing enough centaurs, forcing them to retreat. Maybe they'll attempt to attack the village again later on, but for a while it returns to being its peaceful self. If I ignored this event, the village would've gotten pillaged by centaurs, making its NPCs unavailable and opening up DEs to take this village back.

Um...

Tabula Rasa did this, so technically, doesnt that mean Richard Garriot created "Dynamic Events".

 

At any rate, the novelty soon wore off, as you realised after the 4th time a town was taken, it was going to keep happening repeatedly. 

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  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2693

6/27/13 5:14:50 PM#40
Originally posted by godpuppet
Originally posted by Scalpless

I travel to a village. Some guy tells me centaurs are attacking this village. I can see centaurs run through the village, setting things on fire and killing villagers. I ask a friend to help me in this epic battle. He can simply help me, without using a metagame construct like parties. I complete the quest by killing enough centaurs, forcing them to retreat. Maybe they'll attempt to attack the village again later on, but for a while it returns to being its peaceful self. If I ignored this event, the village would've gotten pillaged by centaurs, making its NPCs unavailable and opening up DEs to take this village back.

Um...

Tabula Rasa did this, so technically, doesnt that mean Richard Garriot created "Dynamic Events".

 

At any rate, the novelty soon wore off, as you realised after the 4th time a town was taking, it was going to keep happening repeatedly. 

Nah, because Funcom did this back in Anarchy Online with invasions of player cities.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

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