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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » Lead Game Designer on Everquest Next Debunks Non-Consent PVP

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296 posts found
  gylnne

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/07
Posts: 325

6/26/13 9:54:26 PM#181
Originally posted by Maquiame
Everquest was never and will never be mainly about pvp. I gotta ask why are you pvpers not just all over the Camelot boards where you belong? Or playing Wushu or Darkfall?

I kind of wondered this myself.

And makes one wonder if the only reason they are here is to find new low lvls to gank.:P

I love a good pvp game but I also love a good pve game as well.

When I get tired of beating on real people I login to my favorite pve game and explore.

The Everquest world has always been pve at it's core and does not make any sense to change that with Everquest Next.

  azzamasin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2830

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

6/26/13 10:07:33 PM#182
Originally posted by adderVXI
Why cant we just have a flagging system like SWG was?  All those people wanting the pvp excitement can have it.  That would cut out the killing of level 2 people in starter areas though which is perhaps the real goal. 

Many of us would like that or separate rule set servers but the PvP crowd, by and large, will never meet In the middle.  For that demographic it is either their way or the highway.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3709

6/26/13 10:12:28 PM#183
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by adderVXI
Why cant we just have a flagging system like SWG was?  All those people wanting the pvp excitement can have it.  That would cut out the killing of level 2 people in starter areas though which is perhaps the real goal. 

Many of us would like that or separate rule set servers but the PvP crowd, by and large, will never meet In the middle.  For that demographic it is either their way or the highway.

Same could be said for PvEers, Sandbox gamers, themepark gamers... wait thats seems to be the way gamers are.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15957

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

6/26/13 10:12:29 PM#184
Originally posted by Kyleran

Anyone else see the irony of a SOE Developer, famous for SWG and some others making the statement that they avoid making bad design decisions?

I'd say as a company they are right up there at the top in this department.

 

This guy wasn't the lead on SWG, so i can't see the irony in that,  I'd also assume he's talking about his team and not SOE as a whole.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15957

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

6/26/13 10:13:24 PM#185
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by adderVXI
Why cant we just have a flagging system like SWG was?  All those people wanting the pvp excitement can have it.  That would cut out the killing of level 2 people in starter areas though which is perhaps the real goal. 

Many of us would like that or separate rule set servers but the PvP crowd, by and large, will never meet In the middle.  For that demographic it is either their way or the highway.

Same could be said for PvEers, Sandbox gamers, themepark gamers... wait thats seems to be the way gamers are.

Exactly...

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Electro057

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/09
Posts: 545

6/26/13 10:16:58 PM#186
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by adderVXI
Why cant we just have a flagging system like SWG was?  All those people wanting the pvp excitement can have it.  That would cut out the killing of level 2 people in starter areas though which is perhaps the real goal. 

Many of us would like that or separate rule set servers but the PvP crowd, by and large, will never meet In the middle.  For that demographic it is either their way or the highway.

Same could be said for PvEers, Sandbox gamers, themepark gamers... wait thats seems to be the way gamers are.

Exactly...

That's pretty much just people, including you and myself. It doesn't only apply to video gamers, just people. Look at politics for example. You can provide as much facts and solid logic but if a person is rooted in their opinion strong enough it doesn't matter.

--Custom Rig: Maker's Forge---
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Windows 7 Ultimate

  User Deleted
6/26/13 10:19:01 PM#187
Originally posted by DamonVile

This site is full of delusional people.  There will be lots of people that believe that ffa pvp is going to be the only option up until the time where they try and attack someone and can't.

Then it will be off the the forums to call the game another fail mmo.

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!

  HabitualFrogStomp

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/04/13
Posts: 256

6/26/13 10:23:02 PM#188

I would have no problem with those who want to facilitate the PVE only playstyle, if those who did so were actually consistent with that aim. We often find that PVE games are more littered with pretentious and rotten filth than you would expect to find on most PVP servers. The PVE'er wants the drama and excitement of PVP just as much as anyone else does. The reason they don't PVP is because they can only play the game on their own terms, and lack the sack to put their money where their mouth is. We find it in the worlds biggest douchebag who sits in front of the AH in his raid armor for 3 months straight, challenging anyone who would not appear to be a threat in a fight (namely noobs who've played the game for 2 and a half hours) to duels. We find it in the general world chat where the same 15 idiots ramble day after day 18 hours a day in their infinite emo-gothism, swiftly abusing and harassing any who dare speak without acknowledging them as supreme master of the universe first. We find it in the habitual ninja thief who would wait in the shadows while you clear trash mobs for 30 minutes, only to swoop in and steal your named at the last possible second while telling you to L2Play.

You will not play an MMO on the market today that is not comprised of these types of players, anything else would be the exception. We all know it, but some how we've come to accept the notion that forced PVP is bad and it hurts harmless little noobs who just want to play the game. Please. Those harmless little noobs are most likely you, the PVE'er, who just wants to spread the contents of your soiled and festering maxipad to yet another game, and we the PVP'ers are doing the game world a service by preventing you from doing so by beating the utter shit out of you wherever you dare show your face.

That's just an alternate perspective. Im sure some innocent noobs do get harmed in the process. I would like to apologize to said noobs for any harm done.

 

  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2544

World > Quest Progression

6/26/13 10:52:34 PM#189
Those... less than desirable individuals would still find safe places to hide out and troll others if that's their wish. I'd much rather them troll a general chat, where I can select "ignore" or decline a dual challenge and laugh as I search the auction house.

Unfortunate individuals are everywhere, in every server type of every MMO and even every forum. Having PvP in an MMO isn't going to change that. The lengths at which to try would make the situation worse.
  xxxxxx1

Novice Member

Joined: 7/26/06
Posts: 95

6/26/13 11:32:01 PM#190
I think EQN will be a faction-based  hybrid PVP/PVE open world in a single shard server. If that is true, this will certainly blow my mind.
  hMJem

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 468

6/27/13 12:33:00 AM#191
Originally posted by Piiritus
Originally posted by bcbully

You kidding right?

 

"We avoid bad decisions"

Thank god they will not listen to you people who want another themepark with housing, in a world with no risk reward, where you are safe to insult act an ass and not get touched because you don't consent.

 

that's what that statement means to me.

Why are you so upset? Have you played EQ and know what this game is about? EQN should be new EQ, not Age of Wushu or whatever in EQ skin. To able to gank people was never a core part of EQ.

They've stated 789324x this isnt going to be like Everquest 3 or Everquest 1 +2 in HD high def graphics.. If you go in expecting that, you'll be let down. They've only said it a million times. They say Everquest Next is going to be so different from EQ1/EQ2 that it isnt going to kill those games because its different.

  User Deleted
6/27/13 12:41:26 AM#192
Sounds like they are going with a heavily moderated form of open world PvP, akin to Age of Wushu.
  Ecoces

Elite Member

Joined: 7/25/11
Posts: 838

6/27/13 6:30:25 AM#193
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by adderVXI
Why cant we just have a flagging system like SWG was?  All those people wanting the pvp excitement can have it.  That would cut out the killing of level 2 people in starter areas though which is perhaps the real goal. 

Many of us would like that or separate rule set servers but the PvP crowd, by and large, will never meet In the middle.  For that demographic it is either their way or the highway.

Same could be said for PvEers, Sandbox gamers, themepark gamers... wait thats seems to be the way gamers are.

Exactly...

actually thats not true at all, many PVE'rs and Consensual PVP supporters im sure would be fine with giving FFA PVPers a separate server so they can enjoy themselves.

 

in fact this HAS been brought up many times in this thread and others on this very forum, yet what is the typical response? "oh separate servers mean the PVP is tacked on and that sucks so no thanks".

 

PVE'rs and Consensual PVPers are open to compromise, its the FFA PVPers that want everyone to be killable at anytime and thats it everything else is tacked on PVP.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3709

6/27/13 7:50:02 AM#194
Originally posted by Ecoces
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by adderVXI
Why cant we just have a flagging system like SWG was?  All those people wanting the pvp excitement can have it.  That would cut out the killing of level 2 people in starter areas though which is perhaps the real goal. 

Many of us would like that or separate rule set servers but the PvP crowd, by and large, will never meet In the middle.  For that demographic it is either their way or the highway.

Same could be said for PvEers, Sandbox gamers, themepark gamers... wait thats seems to be the way gamers are.

Exactly...

actually thats not true at all, many PVE'rs and Consensual PVP supporters im sure would be fine with giving FFA PVPers a separate server so they can enjoy themselves.

 

in fact this HAS been brought up many times in this thread and others on this very forum, yet what is the typical response? "oh separate servers mean the PVP is tacked on and that sucks so no thanks".

 

PVE'rs and Consensual PVPers are open to compromise, its the FFA PVPers that want everyone to be killable at anytime and thats it everything else is tacked on PVP.

According to THIS poll, almost 40% of gamers dont want PvP to be in the game in any form, my guess that would be your easy going PvEers. Not that I blame them as PvP of any form means classes and skills balanced for PvP and that steps on the toes of PvE gamers. Gamers like what they like and we all are a picky bunch.

  Saxx0n

PR/Brand Manager BitBox Ltd.

Joined: 10/15/10
Posts: 832

6/27/13 8:53:49 AM#195
Originally posted by Piiritus
Originally posted by bcbully

You kidding right?

 

"We avoid bad decisions"

Thank god they will not listen to you people who want another themepark with housing, in a world with no risk reward, where you are safe to insult act an ass and not get touched because you don't consent.

 

that's what that statement means to me.

Why are you so upset? Have you played EQ and know what this game is about? EQN should be new EQ, not Age of Wushu or whatever in EQ skin. To able to gank people was never a core part of EQ.

There were 4 servers at launch of EQ. One of those servers was Rallos Zek which was full loot everyone red pvp. Tell my group that was working together to level in North Ro that hardcore pvp was never a core part.

Great times when those little Halfling bastards would round up all the sand giants and train us. The first time they did it they caught us with our pants down and the whole group was crushed by the giants and then the little halflings would come loot us dry. Til we wisened up and would bush whack them as they attempted the same tactic in following days and chase them all the way back to Rivervale. 

Good times for all and dynamic and exciting.

The gank was always a part of EQ...

 

edit- This behavior will always exist. It is in our nature. We have binocular vision and canine teeth and they are not designed for pve.

  lizardbones

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

6/27/13 9:27:30 AM#196


Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by Ecoces

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by azzamasin

Originally posted by adderVXI Why cant we just have a flagging system like SWG was?  All those people wanting the pvp excitement can have it.  That would cut out the killing of level 2 people in starter areas though which is perhaps the real goal. 
Many of us would like that or separate rule set servers but the PvP crowd, by and large, will never meet In the middle.  For that demographic it is either their way or the highway.
Same could be said for PvEers, Sandbox gamers, themepark gamers... wait thats seems to be the way gamers are.
Exactly...
actually thats not true at all, many PVE'rs and Consensual PVP supporters im sure would be fine with giving FFA PVPers a separate server so they can enjoy themselves.   in fact this HAS been brought up many times in this thread and others on this very forum, yet what is the typical response? "oh separate servers mean the PVP is tacked on and that sucks so no thanks".   PVE'rs and Consensual PVPers are open to compromise, its the FFA PVPers that want everyone to be killable at anytime and thats it everything else is tacked on PVP.
According to THIS poll, almost 40% of gamers dont want PvP to be in the game in any form, my guess that would be your easy going PvEers. Not that I blame them as PvP of any form means classes and skills balanced for PvP and that steps on the toes of PvE gamers. Gamers like what they like and we all are a picky bunch.



If anyone is wondering, if you want to see the polls on this site, follow this link:
http://www.mmorpg.com/features.cfm/view/polls

I remembered a poll on PvE and PvP and found the results from that link.
What's more important, PvE or PvP? 15,471 respondents
5.7% PvP
14.8% PvE
PvP focus with a little PvE 10.5%
PvE focus with a little PvP 34.8%
Equal focus on both 34.2%

Overall, at least on this site, PvE content is considered more important, regardless of the game. It's not likely that the people on this site are going to get behind the idea of a PvP focused EQN. That doesn't mean EQN won't be PvP focused, but the preference on this site is going to be PvE, not PvP.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Akerbeltz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/12/13
Posts: 157

6/27/13 11:29:51 AM#197

Above all, I'm a roleplayer. In this sense, I cannot conceive a game that calls itself mmoRPG without open world PvP.

 

I see that much more often than desired people associate OWPvP with combat exclusively, which is quite short sighted in my view. OWPvP and sandbox foundations provide the only viable way of long-term enjoyment and longevity without falling in the "power-creep" and "gear-treadmill" pits: that is player generated content a/o plots.

 

The decadence of mmorpg, among other things, started with the segregation of PVE and PvP and its consolidation as an standard among gamers (very especially among the ones that are not oldskool RPs a/o started in the genre in the post WoW-BC era, after all they haven't known any other model. Oh, and the so-called casuals).

 

When you segregate PVE and PvP a game stops being RPG, automatically, to become another thing. In my view, none of the so-called MMORPGs have been RPGs, they are more like easy mode arcades through "images in motion" with a collection of PvP instanced battlegrounds and a chat. Definitely, taking casual for plain "stupid" and "lazy" has done a lot of damage to the genre; and worst than that, a large portion of the public accepting that as normal and even nice. You could be a casual in the UO days too (I was one), some people tend to forget that...

 

Anyway, I accept that for the sake of the casuals' money some compromise must be made. My bet would be PvP flag/unflag system in a "lame" server. I mean, a "casual" or "ezymode" server. No segregation. Please. We've had enough of that crap. I hope Smed is suggesting something like this in his quote.

 

By the way, I take advantage of the situation to announce how sick I am of the "ganking hysteria". In spite of having been more of a victim than a perpetrator, I never understood all this drama. In my UO days, I remember me and other guys being harassed by a bunch of nasty sons of a bleep in the Jelom area, we would join muscle to counterattack, make a roleplay plot and all, pay them back and loot their stinking corpses. We got to be friends and even got to befriend the "gankers" and prepare RPG events with them. Those were the days were the trend was to be sociable and look for sinergies to solve your particular in-game "problems" and not expect the devs to dumb down or segregate game systems.

 

And don't take my post badly, I know I might be the last of a dying breed...

 

Regards

 

 

 

 

Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.

  Dullahan

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/05
Posts: 798

Death to Themepark.

6/27/13 11:35:27 AM#198

Is this thread really still going?  Its called a conjecture people, and it was a really bad one.

Played EQ, UO, DAoC, AO, WoW, EQII, Vanguard, Ryzom, Darkfall, Warhammer, Rift, MO, Tera, DFUW, Age of Wushu, NW2, ESO, ArcheAge and many others I don't remember or care to admit.
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Awaiting The Repopulation, Camelot Unchained & Shroud of the Avatar.
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Don't be ignorant. Get an MMO education!

  Dejoblue

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/11
Posts: 295

I'll give them heroics...and when everyone is super...no one will be.

6/27/13 11:47:07 AM#199
Looks like SOE is pointing us in this direction, heh. They are sending EQ forum posters to this thread.
 
EQ Community Manager Dexella "There's actually a discussion about PvP in EverQuest Next going on at MMORPG (which you can read here).
 
Source: https://forums.station.sony.com/eq/index.php?threads/smed-co-betraying-the-core-esense-of-eq.200903/page-5
  lizardbones

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

6/27/13 11:55:57 AM#200


Originally posted by dejoblue
Looks like SOE is pointing us in this direction, heh. They are sending EQ forum posters to this thread.   EQ Community Manager Dexella "There's actually a discussion about PvP in EverQuest Next going on at MMORPG (which you can read here).   Source: https://forums.station.sony.com/eq/index.php?threads/smed-co-betraying-the-core-esense-of-eq.200903/page-5


VICTORY!

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

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