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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » Lead Game Designer on Everquest Next Debunks Non-Consent PVP

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296 posts found
  Yamota

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6521

"I fight so you don't have to."

6/26/13 5:04:16 PM#121
Originally posted by furbans
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by Khayotix
Originally posted by TheJoda
Not much really said at all.......You can read that 100's different ways.

It can only be read in the context of the question being answered. That is will it be forced on players who do not want it. The answer, That would be a poor design decision.

I understand people want to live in their little world of believing they are right, but that gets old when the truth hammer hits you and they still deny it.

No it does not. He said clearly that he specifically cannot comment on it and then made the general statement that they dont make bad design decisions.

That is typical PR BS that basically says nothing at all because there is no telling what they consider a bad design decisions. You can assume that he is referring to non consentual PvP but he has given him enough legroom to deny that later down the line.

It's not typical PR BS, it's actually the smart answer.  The great unveiling is on Aug 2nd and any game cannot and will not comment on any design that will have people go raging all over the internet, and extreme n intense n ridiculous raging there will be when this hot topic is finally answered.  No one isn't going to confirm nor deny any game mechanics until they do their press release or whatever PR event that they reveal it in.

What you just described is what I call PR BS, i.e. a statement that says everything but confirming nothing. A non statement.

It is like asking about X feature and get response:

We try not to make a bad game.

It is a useless answer because who in their right mind would consciously make a bad design decision? No one.

  jagd241

Novice Member

Joined: 10/06/12
Posts: 54

6/26/13 5:05:07 PM#122
Originally posted by Xssiv

 

I have to disagree.   I've been playing on PvP servers almost exclusively for many years and I don't know anyone who runs around looking for "easy targets"

 

 

 

 

 

What PvP servers have you been playing on?  Ganking, griefing and corpse camping lowbies is a pretty well known and long established practice and is why most PvE players don't like  PvP servers.

  illorion

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/08
Posts: 476

6/26/13 5:12:12 PM#123
Originally posted by Storm_Cloud

I wasn't sure if I was going to reply or not. Seems to me like you are picking a fight, and I'm not interested. Like I wouldn't be in the game unless, I feel like it.

So, you have 2 choices. Accept a (temporary enemy flag) system like the one that was in SWG, and "sometimes" fight people who usually does not wanna PvP, or, get stuck on a pure PvP server where eventually, people will leave and you'll be fighting the same 50 ppl every day. What's your choice?

 

You mean a temporary flagging system like the one in that game that died years and years ago and people know point to as a shinning example of "what not to do in a video game".... or a seperate server system... like the one in WoW... where some of the highest population servers come with watching you back at all times in case of danger... you know... the game thats over 10 years old and still has 10 million players?

I would just rather they keep those players on a seperate server... so they can all play together and have an dandy old time. I personally like a little more excitement and stress in my MMO's... i like having to deal with people and their shitty habits... if i didn't then i wouldn't play multiplayer games....

"Don't mistake a fun game for a good game... Checkers is fun to play but its not exactly the highest point of gaming design... and definatly not worth $60 plus $15 a month"

  Storm_Cloud

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/10/13
Posts: 309

6/26/13 5:24:44 PM#124
Originally posted by illorion
Originally posted by Storm_Cloud

I wasn't sure if I was going to reply or not. Seems to me like you are picking a fight, and I'm not interested. Like I wouldn't be in the game unless, I feel like it.

So, you have 2 choices. Accept a (temporary enemy flag) system like the one that was in SWG, and "sometimes" fight people who usually does not wanna PvP, or, get stuck on a pure PvP server where eventually, people will leave and you'll be fighting the same 50 ppl every day. What's your choice?

 

You mean a temporary flagging system like the one in that game that died years and years ago and people know point to as a shinning example of "what not to do in a video game".... or a seperate server system... like the one in WoW... where some of the highest population servers come with watching you back at all times in case of danger... you know... the game thats over 10 years old and still has 10 million players?

I would just rather they keep those players on a seperate server... so they can all play together and have an dandy old time. I personally like a little more excitement and stress in my MMO's... i like having to deal with people and their shitty habits... if i didn't then i wouldn't play multiplayer games....

LOL! Ok, I just have 3 questions.

1. How's the health of the "open world" PvP in WoW.

2. How long did it take until it ended up that way?

3. How long will a server with 50 ppl remain alive?

Because I'm a nice guy, I will give you a second chance to answer my question with these facts in mind. See how easy it is to find the right answer now? :)

 

  illorion

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/08
Posts: 476

6/26/13 5:27:00 PM#125
Originally posted by jagd241
Originally posted by Xssiv

 

I have to disagree.   I've been playing on PvP servers almost exclusively for many years and I don't know anyone who runs around looking for "easy targets"

 

 

 

 

 

What PvP servers have you been playing on?  Ganking, griefing and corpse camping lowbies is a pretty well known and long established practice and is why most PvE players don't like  PvP servers.

Thats the appeal for those of us who enjoy PvP. I enjoy the danger and the constant anxiety of a possible attack. I don't know if everyone just forgot or if maybe myself and the other players on these forums who are all for open PvP are exclusive in this belief... but these games are NOT hard... like at all... i can hammer out quests/events/dungeons in pretty much any game without so much more as a ho hum... its child's play.... the added danger of having to watch out for the "big boys" while you are doing it actually makes it entertaining and at least partially challenging.

 

"Don't mistake a fun game for a good game... Checkers is fun to play but its not exactly the highest point of gaming design... and definatly not worth $60 plus $15 a month"

  illorion

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/08
Posts: 476

6/26/13 5:31:05 PM#126
Originally posted by Storm_Cloud
Originally posted by illorion
Originally posted by Storm_Cloud

I wasn't sure if I was going to reply or not. Seems to me like you are picking a fight, and I'm not interested. Like I wouldn't be in the game unless, I feel like it.

So, you have 2 choices. Accept a (temporary enemy flag) system like the one that was in SWG, and "sometimes" fight people who usually does not wanna PvP, or, get stuck on a pure PvP server where eventually, people will leave and you'll be fighting the same 50 ppl every day. What's your choice?

 

You mean a temporary flagging system like the one in that game that died years and years ago and people know point to as a shinning example of "what not to do in a video game".... or a seperate server system... like the one in WoW... where some of the highest population servers come with watching you back at all times in case of danger... you know... the game thats over 10 years old and still has 10 million players?

I would just rather they keep those players on a seperate server... so they can all play together and have an dandy old time. I personally like a little more excitement and stress in my MMO's... i like having to deal with people and their shitty habits... if i didn't then i wouldn't play multiplayer games....

LOL! Ok, I just have 3 questions.

1. How's the health of the "open world" PvP in WoW.

2. How long did it take until it ended up that way?

3. How long will a server with 50 ppl remain alive?

Because I'm a nice guy, I will give you a second chance to answer my question with these facts in mind. See how easy it is to find the right answer now? :)

 

1. Open world PvP in WoW is still alive and kicking last time i played... you get ganked... or do the ganking and it usually turns into a huge "everyone log of and log onto your main" 3 hour slugfest in southshore... hella fun.

2. It's always been that way... since vanilla... again... southshore... the barrens.... stranglethorn vale...

3. I played on emerald dream... its RPPvP... its still max pop...so yeah... if anything PvP servers last longer than PvE because there is still something to do when you've gotten bored with the themepark content... its called other players... Hence the MM part of MMORPG

"Don't mistake a fun game for a good game... Checkers is fun to play but its not exactly the highest point of gaming design... and definatly not worth $60 plus $15 a month"

  LacedOpium

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/22/12
Posts: 482

6/26/13 5:38:21 PM#127

 

I find it amazing that all of these pro "forced non consensual" PvPers actually believe that SOE would decide to make Everquest, their most popular flagship title, a "forced non consensual" PvP game.  The very definition of bad game design would be to have any type of "forced PvP" or  "non consensual PvP" in a MMORPG involving PvE.  What is there not to get about that?

In regard to this tweet, would any of you hardcore PvP geniuses like to take a guess as to what exactly he could have been referring to when he answered "we avoid bad game decisions" when specifically asked  about  concern regarding "forced non consensual  PvP.?" 

I mean, what else could he have been referring to if not "forced non consensual" PvP?

/roflmao

Prettying-up wrong by dressing it up as opinion does not negate the fact that it is still wrong.

  Storm_Cloud

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/10/13
Posts: 309

6/26/13 5:39:52 PM#128
Originally posted by illorion
Originally posted by Storm_Cloud
Originally posted by illorion
Originally posted by Storm_Cloud

I wasn't sure if I was going to reply or not. Seems to me like you are picking a fight, and I'm not interested. Like I wouldn't be in the game unless, I feel like it.

So, you have 2 choices. Accept a (temporary enemy flag) system like the one that was in SWG, and "sometimes" fight people who usually does not wanna PvP, or, get stuck on a pure PvP server where eventually, people will leave and you'll be fighting the same 50 ppl every day. What's your choice?

 

You mean a temporary flagging system like the one in that game that died years and years ago and people know point to as a shinning example of "what not to do in a video game".... or a seperate server system... like the one in WoW... where some of the highest population servers come with watching you back at all times in case of danger... you know... the game thats over 10 years old and still has 10 million players?

I would just rather they keep those players on a seperate server... so they can all play together and have an dandy old time. I personally like a little more excitement and stress in my MMO's... i like having to deal with people and their shitty habits... if i didn't then i wouldn't play multiplayer games....

LOL! Ok, I just have 3 questions.

1. How's the health of the "open world" PvP in WoW.

2. How long did it take until it ended up that way?

3. How long will a server with 50 ppl remain alive?

Because I'm a nice guy, I will give you a second chance to answer my question with these facts in mind. See how easy it is to find the right answer now? :)

 

1. Open world PvP in WoW is still alive and kicking last time i played... you get ganked... or do the ganking and it usually turns into a huge "everyone log of and log onto your main" 3 hour slugfest in southshore... hella fun.

2. It's always been that way... since vanilla... again... southshore... the barrens.... stranglethorn vale...

3. I played on emerald dream... its RPPvP... its still max pop...so yeah... if anything PvP servers last longer than PvE because there is still something to do when you've gotten bored with the themepark content... its called other players... Hence the MM part of MMORPG

See, now I know you are in denial.

So ok, have fun with your WoW battl... Errr, "open world" PvP.

I'll see you when EQN releases with SWG style TEF system where we all are together on the same server, PvE and PvP. I'm pretty sure we'll clash if we end up on the same server, when I am in the mood for PvP. Not, vice verca. Also, with the TEF system, there will be no ganking, because you lose your TEF once you die. It's great system for casual PvE people like myself who once in a while like to do some PvP. While, PvP people can do it all the time. Remember the 50 ppl? They will also be there for your entertainment.

It's a win for us both. :)

 

  User Deleted
6/26/13 5:47:00 PM#129

The best part about that tweet all these pvpers who tihnk FFA PVP is fun won't be playing EQN :)  

 

If I were to assume I would guess faction based PVP after all smed did say they're doing amazing things with factions.

  illorion

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/08
Posts: 476

6/26/13 5:49:53 PM#130

See, now I know you are in denial.

So ok, have fun with your WoW battl... Errr, "open world" PvP.

I'll see you when EQN releases with SWG style TEF system where we all are together on the same server, PvE and PvP. I'm pretty sure we'll clash if we end up on the same server, when I am in the mood for PvP. Not, vice verca. Also, with the TEF system, there will be no ganking, because you lose your TEF once you die. It's great system for casual PvE people like myself who once in a while like to do some PvP. While, PvP people can do it all the time. Remember the 50 ppl? They will also be there for your entertainment.

It's a win for us both. :)

 

No it's a win for you and an immersion breaker for me... the difference between us is that you want to play a "game" i want to experience a world. And when i click on you and click fireball and get a red message that says... "this player is not flagged for PvP" is an immersion breaker.

Your continued use of the "50" people quote even though its very very obvious that, just in WoW alone, there where thousand of people who prefered it just the way i do on forced PvP servers... means that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Im not even asking them to force PvP on people like you... im just asking that they keep you seperate on a different server with people who think like you. People who want to play massive multplayer but want to be able to control how the other players will affect them. Thats silly... 

I don't want to clash with you... i don't want you to decided when the fight between us will suit you... just as i don't want to be able to stop you from attacking me should you so choose. It's not realistic... "hey my PvP flag wasn't on" will not stop you from getting punched in the face at the bar and it shouldn't be so in, what is supposed to be, and immersive game experience

"Don't mistake a fun game for a good game... Checkers is fun to play but its not exactly the highest point of gaming design... and definatly not worth $60 plus $15 a month"

  tank017

Novice Member

Joined: 7/09/06
Posts: 2206

6/26/13 5:50:24 PM#131

I knew they wouldnt take the open pvp route..

 

to force it on everyone is,indeed,a bad design decision.

  Storm_Cloud

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/10/13
Posts: 309

6/26/13 5:50:52 PM#132
Originally posted by William12

The best part about that tweet all these pvpers who tihnk FFA PVP is fun won't be playing EQN :)  

 

If I were to assume I would guess faction based PVP after all smed did say they're doing amazing things with factions.

Agreed!

I want a good old fashioned Good vs Evil setup. Gonna have to figure which races are good and bad though, it's not all that clear I think. :)

  Storm_Cloud

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/10/13
Posts: 309

6/26/13 5:56:49 PM#133
Originally posted by illorion

See, now I know you are in denial.

So ok, have fun with your WoW battl... Errr, "open world" PvP.

I'll see you when EQN releases with SWG style TEF system where we all are together on the same server, PvE and PvP. I'm pretty sure we'll clash if we end up on the same server, when I am in the mood for PvP. Not, vice verca. Also, with the TEF system, there will be no ganking, because you lose your TEF once you die. It's great system for casual PvE people like myself who once in a while like to do some PvP. While, PvP people can do it all the time. Remember the 50 ppl? They will also be there for your entertainment.

It's a win for us both. :)

 

No it's a win for you and an immersion breaker for me... the difference between us is that you want to play a "game" i want to experience a world. And when i click on you and click fireball and get a red message that says... "this player is not flagged for PvP" is an immersion breaker.

Your continued use of the "50" people quote even though its very very obvious that, just in WoW alone, there where thousand of people who prefered it just the way i do on forced PvP servers... means that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Im not even asking them to force PvP on people like you... im just asking that they keep you seperate on a different server with people who think like you. People who want to play massive multplayer but want to be able to control how the other players will affect them. Thats silly... 

I don't want to clash with you... i don't want you to decided when the fight between us will suit you... just as i don't want to be able to stop you from attacking me should you so choose. It's not realistic... "hey my PvP flag wasn't on" will not stop you from getting punched in the face at the bar and it shouldn't be so in, what is supposed to be, and immersive game experience

That's so sad.

So, either eventually you will be lonely looking for more ppl to PvP on the seperate pvp server, or, you won't be playing EQN at all, which I find sad because it's most likely going to be a great game, for PvP and PvE if you decide to bend a little on those rules you have, or, you will be back in WoW.

Good luck, we're all gonna need it on August 2nd. :)

 

  illorion

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/08
Posts: 476

6/26/13 6:03:20 PM#134
Originally posted by Storm_Cloud
Originally posted by illorion

See, now I know you are in denial.

So ok, have fun with your WoW battl... Errr, "open world" PvP.

I'll see you when EQN releases with SWG style TEF system where we all are together on the same server, PvE and PvP. I'm pretty sure we'll clash if we end up on the same server, when I am in the mood for PvP. Not, vice verca. Also, with the TEF system, there will be no ganking, because you lose your TEF once you die. It's great system for casual PvE people like myself who once in a while like to do some PvP. While, PvP people can do it all the time. Remember the 50 ppl? They will also be there for your entertainment.

It's a win for us both. :)

 

No it's a win for you and an immersion breaker for me... the difference between us is that you want to play a "game" i want to experience a world. And when i click on you and click fireball and get a red message that says... "this player is not flagged for PvP" is an immersion breaker.

Your continued use of the "50" people quote even though its very very obvious that, just in WoW alone, there where thousand of people who prefered it just the way i do on forced PvP servers... means that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Im not even asking them to force PvP on people like you... im just asking that they keep you seperate on a different server with people who think like you. People who want to play massive multplayer but want to be able to control how the other players will affect them. Thats silly... 

I don't want to clash with you... i don't want you to decided when the fight between us will suit you... just as i don't want to be able to stop you from attacking me should you so choose. It's not realistic... "hey my PvP flag wasn't on" will not stop you from getting punched in the face at the bar and it shouldn't be so in, what is supposed to be, and immersive game experience

That's so sad.

So, either eventually you will be lonely looking for more ppl to PvP on the seperate pvp server, or, you won't be playing EQN at all, which I find sad because it's most likely going to be a great game, for PvP and PvE if you decide to bend a little on those rules you have, or, you will be back in WoW.

Good luck, we're all gonna need it on August 2nd. :)

 

Again you are stuck on the delusion that there are few people who want PvP like me... yet i can point to one single game Darkfall with its 200,000 players... so that means... at the very least... there are 200,000 people on one game that like open PvP... so how you get I will be "lonely" on my PvP server i have no idea.

What will happen is that you will steamroll through almost all the content within a month or two like everyone does and then log out and not play again until the next Xpack with new content drops... meanwhile ill be fighting my fellow players and having a good time as content is only a part of the game for me. It will also take me longer to level as i have to fight off gankers and Pkers as i level... 

"Don't mistake a fun game for a good game... Checkers is fun to play but its not exactly the highest point of gaming design... and definatly not worth $60 plus $15 a month"

  User Deleted
6/26/13 6:10:03 PM#135
Originally posted by TheJoda
Not much really said at all.......You can read that 100's different ways.

That's right.

 

This statement doesn't really clear up anything. What is a "bad design decision"?

  Bidwood

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 555

6/26/13 6:10:34 PM#136
Originally posted by illorion
Originally posted by jagd241
Originally posted by Xssiv

 

I have to disagree.   I've been playing on PvP servers almost exclusively for many years and I don't know anyone who runs around looking for "easy targets"

 

 

 

 

 

What PvP servers have you been playing on?  Ganking, griefing and corpse camping lowbies is a pretty well known and long established practice and is why most PvE players don't like  PvP servers.

Thats the appeal for those of us who enjoy PvP. I enjoy the danger and the constant anxiety of a possible attack. I don't know if everyone just forgot or if maybe myself and the other players on these forums who are all for open PvP are exclusive in this belief... but these games are NOT hard... like at all... i can hammer out quests/events/dungeons in pretty much any game without so much more as a ho hum... its child's play.... the added danger of having to watch out for the "big boys" while you are doing it actually makes it entertaining and at least partially challenging.

 

This. You rock.

  LacedOpium

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/22/12
Posts: 482

6/26/13 6:10:59 PM#137
Originally posted by illorion
Originally posted by Storm_Cloud
Originally posted by illorion
 
 
,,, It will also take me longer to level as i have to fight off gankers and Pkers as i level... 

 

Sounds like great fun.

 

/shakes head

Prettying-up wrong by dressing it up as opinion does not negate the fact that it is still wrong.

  Storm_Cloud

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/10/13
Posts: 309

6/26/13 6:13:41 PM#138
Originally posted by illorion
Originally posted by Storm_Cloud
Originally posted by illorion

See, now I know you are in denial.

So ok, have fun with your WoW battl... Errr, "open world" PvP.

I'll see you when EQN releases with SWG style TEF system where we all are together on the same server, PvE and PvP. I'm pretty sure we'll clash if we end up on the same server, when I am in the mood for PvP. Not, vice verca. Also, with the TEF system, there will be no ganking, because you lose your TEF once you die. It's great system for casual PvE people like myself who once in a while like to do some PvP. While, PvP people can do it all the time. Remember the 50 ppl? They will also be there for your entertainment.

It's a win for us both. :)

 

No it's a win for you and an immersion breaker for me... the difference between us is that you want to play a "game" i want to experience a world. And when i click on you and click fireball and get a red message that says... "this player is not flagged for PvP" is an immersion breaker.

Your continued use of the "50" people quote even though its very very obvious that, just in WoW alone, there where thousand of people who prefered it just the way i do on forced PvP servers... means that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Im not even asking them to force PvP on people like you... im just asking that they keep you seperate on a different server with people who think like you. People who want to play massive multplayer but want to be able to control how the other players will affect them. Thats silly... 

I don't want to clash with you... i don't want you to decided when the fight between us will suit you... just as i don't want to be able to stop you from attacking me should you so choose. It's not realistic... "hey my PvP flag wasn't on" will not stop you from getting punched in the face at the bar and it shouldn't be so in, what is supposed to be, and immersive game experience

That's so sad.

So, either eventually you will be lonely looking for more ppl to PvP on the seperate pvp server, or, you won't be playing EQN at all, which I find sad because it's most likely going to be a great game, for PvP and PvE if you decide to bend a little on those rules you have, or, you will be back in WoW.

Good luck, we're all gonna need it on August 2nd. :)

 

Again you are stuck on the delusion that there are few people who want PvP like me... yet i can point to one single game Darkfall with its 200,000 players... so that means... at the very least... there are 200,000 people on one game that like open PvP... so how you get I will be "lonely" on my PvP server i have no idea.

What will happen is that you will steamroll through almost all the content within a month or two like everyone does and then log out and not play again until the next Xpack with new content drops... meanwhile ill be fighting my fellow players and having a good time as content is only a part of the game for me. It will also take me longer to level as i have to fight off gankers and Pkers as i level... 

LOL, oh man!

Ok, you need to read through some threads. :)

There's been "talk" like everything about this game is all "talk" because we have no facts about anything basically. However, some of that "talk" is suggesting that there will be 2 sets of difficulty servers.

1. Easy Mode server (today's current difficulty level where one reaches max level within a week or two.)

2. Hardcore server (EQ1 difficulty style, which means takes a long time to level, death penalties, etc.)

And to give you a hint of what kinda person I am. I played EQ1 for almost 5 years, from release. Then moved on to SWG for a couple years and after EQ2, then Vanguard. So, in short, without moving into other games, how long do you think I will stay with this game, when I chose option 2? Because, I'm like you, but in PvE. I am here for the challenge, not easy mode. :)

 

  LacedOpium

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/22/12
Posts: 482

6/26/13 6:15:06 PM#139
Originally posted by PWN_FACE
Originally posted by TheJoda
Not much really said at all.......You can read that 100's different ways.

That's right.

 

This statement doesn't really clear up anything. What is a "bad design decision"?

 

What was the topic of the question that he specifically provided that answer to?

 

I know ... amazing, right? loll

Prettying-up wrong by dressing it up as opinion does not negate the fact that it is still wrong.

  Bidwood

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 555

6/26/13 6:15:54 PM#140

King Croesus: Oracle! Can my army defeat the Persians?

Delphic Oracle: If you cross the Halys River, a great Empire will be destroyed.

*Croesus' army crosses the river, is crushed by the Persians.*



"Confirmation bias (also called confirmatory bias or myside bias) is a tendency of people to favor information that confirms their beliefs or hypotheses. People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. The effect is stronger for emotionally charged issues and for deeply entrenched beliefs."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias


The only people who really make sense here are the ones who say this doesn't tell us very much because it's too ambiguous.

Here's my biased interpretation though:

Bad game design = PVP implemented in such a way that the game is only fun for a niche market.

I'm expecting open world PVP to be revealed as one of the "pillars" of the holy grail MMO that SOE is creating here. It will be integrated with the other pillars in such a way that the game is INCREDIBLY fun and has a ton of players. So the tweet actually confirms by bias in an indirect way. After all, he said he can't comment directly. ;)

See how easy it is?
 

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