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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » Triple-A sandbox with open-world, non-consensual PVP: If you build it, they will come. And stay.

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373 posts found
  User Deleted
6/26/13 8:15:36 AM#341
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by Dihoru

EQ had non consensual PVP actually. And the PVP servers died, there is only 1 left, while there are 16 PVE servers.

Some people like non-consensual PVP, but you're delusional if you think it's anything more than a small niche market.

Here son, show us on the doll where the bad pvpers touched you (I am seriously sick of your narrowminded, judgemental replies to any thread with this topic, either make a valid comment on its, PVP's, place in a future, not passed, EQ game with actual facts behind your arguments and I might not just start taking apart the jokes you call arguments).

You know, half of the reason PVE players refuse to do any PVP at all has to do with the attitude problem PVP players have. There's this need to be confrontational with you players, something you don't find on PVE servers.

And the doll didn't touch me anywhere you crazy creep.

+1

The guy you responded to illustrates everything that's wrong with the typical PvP mindset. The less of that in any game the better, IMO.

The game developer who designs a sandbox with compelling world and story and encourages open-world PvP while discouraging d-bag griefer behavior will take the play style from niche to mainstream. 

No one has done it yet, although EVE was on the right track. 

  olepi

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/15/07
Posts: 984

6/26/13 8:19:39 AM#342

The answer seems so simple, even DAOC had it right 10 years ago. Make a large area PvP, and put valuable stuff in it so people will want/need to go into the zone. Either for mats, or for outposts, etc. Then make the rest of the world non-PvP.

This allows for both types of gameplay. Remove either one, and lose some market. Go full FFA PvP and lose 95% of the market. What it doesn't allow is griefers attacking people whenever and wherever they want.

------------
RIP City of Heroes. One of my favorite MMO's.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17114

6/26/13 8:25:43 AM#343
Originally posted by Whiplash931
Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs

If the PvP is Non-consensual, no they will not stay.

Most MMO gamers dont like PvP that is on someone elses terms.

These type of people need to grow a backbone and learn how to PvP. Thats the whole point of PvP is making the other person fight on your terms.

LOL

well now, how does it feel to be part of the problem?

I can play too: "you type of players should develop some empathy and realize that not everyone enjoys or wants to have the same play experience"

It's always difficult to have discussions where I admit I love pvp because automatically players associate me with those pvp players who drag the pastime into the gutter.

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 5110

6/26/13 8:25:57 AM#344
Originally posted by SavageHorizon
Originally posted by exwin
Great, make PvP servers and PvE servers and everyone is happy. Problem solved.

Yup, not hard to do.

On contrary all the devs I talk to say its a pain in the ass to have 2 rule sets and 2 code branches - it is undesirable and much harder to support, for very little gain usually.

Things that seem not a big deal from a players perspective are not always like that in reality.

 

  SavageHorizon

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 1562

6/26/13 8:28:35 AM#345
Originally posted by olepi

The answer seems so simple, even DAOC had it right 10 years ago. Make a large area PvP, and put valuable stuff in it so people will want/need to go into the zone. Either for mats, or for outposts, etc. Then make the rest of the world non-PvP.

This allows for both types of gameplay. Remove either one, and lose some market. Go full FFA PvP and lose 95% of the market. What it doesn't allow is griefers attacking people whenever and wherever they want.

The answer is doing what Smed and co have always done, have server rulesets.

PVP

RPPVP

PVE

RPPVE

Simple.

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  olepi

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/15/07
Posts: 984

6/26/13 8:30:24 AM#346
Originally posted by SavageHorizon
Originally posted by olepi

The answer seems so simple, even DAOC had it right 10 years ago. Make a large area PvP, and put valuable stuff in it so people will want/need to go into the zone. Either for mats, or for outposts, etc. Then make the rest of the world non-PvP.

This allows for both types of gameplay. Remove either one, and lose some market. Go full FFA PvP and lose 95% of the market. What it doesn't allow is griefers attacking people whenever and wherever they want.

The answer is doing what Smed and co have always done, have server rulesets.

PVP

RPPVP

PVE

RPPVE

Simple.

 

This sounds like it might work. Except, how many games have separate PvE and PvP servers, where the PvP servers are thriving and full?

 

edit: and it doesn''t help players like me that want to do both

------------
RIP City of Heroes. One of my favorite MMO's.

  exwin

Novice Member

Joined: 3/08/07
Posts: 224

6/26/13 8:33:05 AM#347
Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by SavageHorizon
Originally posted by exwin
Great, make PvP servers and PvE servers and everyone is happy. Problem solved.

Yup, not hard to do.

On contrary all the devs I talk to say its a pain in the ass to have 2 rule sets and 2 code branches - it is undesirable and much harder to support, for very little gain usually.

Things that seem not a big deal from a players perspective are not always like that in reality.

 

It's what every major MMO on the market does. I think, if they want a successful EQ for years to come, it is an inconvenience they'll have to deal with. If not, they can go work for WarZ.

  TribeofOne

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/10/05
Posts: 976

6/26/13 8:33:32 AM#348
we cant agree on what AAA or sandbox means
  SavageHorizon

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 1562

6/26/13 8:50:32 AM#349
Originally posted by olepi
Originally posted by SavageHorizon
Originally posted by olepi

The answer seems so simple, even DAOC had it right 10 years ago. Make a large area PvP, and put valuable stuff in it so people will want/need to go into the zone. Either for mats, or for outposts, etc. Then make the rest of the world non-PvP.

This allows for both types of gameplay. Remove either one, and lose some market. Go full FFA PvP and lose 95% of the market. What it doesn't allow is griefers attacking people whenever and wherever they want.

The answer is doing what Smed and co have always done, have server rulesets.

PVP

RPPVP

PVE

RPPVE

Simple.

 

This sounds like it might work. Except, how many games have separate PvE and PvP servers, where the PvP servers are thriving and full?

 

edit: and it doesn''t help players like me that want to do both

If the PVPer are not enough to fill up there own pvp servers then that's down to the lack of people wanting to PVP, why should PVE's suffer for the lack of PVPers?

 

EQ ip has always had separate servers, i don't think EQN will change that.

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  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3425

6/26/13 8:55:33 AM#350
This place is going to be a lot less fun when this FFA PvP things is cleared up =-) PvPForum is almost as fun as PvP itself =-)
  SavageHorizon

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 1562

6/26/13 9:00:55 AM#351
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
This place is going to be a lot less fun when this FFA PvP things is cleared up =-) PvPForum is almost as fun as PvP itself =-)

Yup, when the people who think EQN is going to be the next Darkfall In Norrath realize that it's not the big next PVP game they were hoping for it's going to be fireworks. And when they realize that Smed's sandbox is not quite what many of us would call a sandbox it's going to be even more fun.

No fear though, there is always a true sandbox that offers everything you would expect from a true sandbox game.

 

  • Explore huge, diverse landmasses extending over 512sq km in total!
  • Modify the terrain; dig, raise, flatten and sculpt the land around you!
  • Make your home on either the PvP or PvE server, two different ruleset severs in a sandbox game, oh my.
  • Craft and use thousands of unique items.
  • Wage war on other kingdoms, and lead yours to victory.
  • Discover and fight over religious artifacts on the PvP server.
  • Capture and breed animals from the environment.
  • Train 133 Skills, 10 Player Characteristics, and 3 Religion Characteristics.
  • Follow one of four unique deities and religions.
  • Hunt creatures such as the unique red dragon, forest giant, kyklops, troll king and others!
  • Become a priest or champion of your religion and learn powerful spells and enchantments.
  • Choose one of five meditation paths and take advantage of special meditation abilities.
  • Earn as many of our 200+ skill and achievement titles as you have time for!
  • Mount various creatures, from horses and carts to unicorns, bears and even dragons!
  • Construct, crew or even captain six different ship types with other players, from small rowing boats to impressive caravels.
  • Build a variety of structures, from guard towers to stone houses to fences and statues.
  • Found your own settlement wherever you desire; own land, build a farm, a castle, or perhaps an entire village!
  • Pave roads to connect settlements and plant signs to improve local infrastructure.
  • Live off the land by creating fields to farm a variety of crops including potatoes, garlic, cotton, wheat, strawberries, pumpkins and more!
  • Cook food using a huge range of ingredients.
  • …and much more!
http://wurmonline.com/  what are you all waiting for?
 
Can Smed really claim that EQN is the biggest sandbox mmo ever made, i expect to see all of the above features in EQN. If the game is even missing one of the above features then Smed has lost.

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  Zzad

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/14/11
Posts: 1282

6/26/13 9:01:10 AM#352

If the PvP is Non-consensual, i won´t ven bother trying the game out.

So SOE is doing the right thing.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7188

6/26/13 9:02:36 AM#353
Originally posted by TribeofOne
we cant agree on what AAA or sandbox means

a lot of people in the thread don't even understand the concept.

 

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  VikingGamer

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/08/10
Posts: 1253

The strong are sometimes wrong but the weak are never free.

6/26/13 9:03:28 AM#354
Originally posted by DocBrody
Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs

If the PvP is Non-consensual, no they will not stay.

Most MMO gamers dont like PvP that is on someone elses terms.

 Repeating this big fat lie which has been running for years won´t make it true

it has been running for years because it has been true and well know since pre-Trammel UO.

All die, so die well.
Join SOLA in ArcheAge.

  SavageHorizon

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 1562

6/26/13 9:06:48 AM#355
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by TribeofOne
we cant agree on what AAA or sandbox means

a lot of people in the thread don't even understand the concept.

 

Oh make no mistake, i do.

Look at my above post to see what a true sandbox game is, Age Of Wushu isn't a true sandbox nor is AA and neither will EQN be imo.

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  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10551

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

6/26/13 9:08:54 AM#356


Originally posted by DMKano

Originally posted by SavageHorizon

Originally posted by exwin Great, make PvP servers and PvE servers and everyone is happy. Problem solved.
Yup, not hard to do.
On contrary all the devs I talk to say its a pain in the ass to have 2 rule sets and 2 code branches - it is undesirable and much harder to support, for very little gain usually.

Things that seem not a big deal from a players perspective are not always like that in reality.

 




This isn't something that's exclusive to games, it's a common thing in most applications. Admin users have a different set of abilities from regular users. Different applications have different permissions depending on the user who starts them. Applications may have different options available depending on whether the database responds or not. Yes, having two separate code bases increases complexity, but saying that user behaviors, permissions or abilities being different in different scenarios is some special kind of difficult is a cop out. Anyone who has written software as anything other than a hobby has had to deal with this.

It is just hard or harder to make skills and abilities relatively balanced across many different scenarios as it would be to have different behaviors for skills and abilities in the different scenarios. It just depends on how the developer wants things to work. If a developer wants to have a consistent behavior for all abilities across all types of game play scenarios, it's because that fits the vision of the game they are making. That's why WoW has mostly the same behavior in PvE and PvP, even though they are perfectly capable of distinguishing between the two types of combat, and have only slight differences in skills between the two types of combat. It's why GW2's combat is largely different between PvE and PvP. It's because that's how the developers want to do it.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3425

6/26/13 9:16:57 AM#357

Problem with calling a game sandbox is not so much if it is or isnt, its how much of it is. Take SWG, lots of people played it and the words sandbox game was used to describe it. Now people think thats sandbox when only a % of it was. SWG also had themepark mechanics. Same with any game that has a % of sandbox elements. So the play base start saying this is a sandbox game and it becomes something different for each player, when in fact sandbox is not the game but an idea that comes down to one thing. A player can build, change, some part of the game, be it PvP, char development, skills or world. When you have the freedom to create something different with a set of tools you have been given by the developer you now have something sandbox. 

EQN will not be pure sandbox. Structured classes and skills, quests written the same for everyone or classes or a world you cant change. Its rare to find a game thats 100% pure sandbox. EQN at best will be a % of sandbox, question is what parts of the game will players have creative control over?

  SavageHorizon

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 1562

6/26/13 9:19:34 AM#358
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Problem with calling a game sandbox is not so much if it is or isnt, its how much of it is. Take SWG, lots of people played it and the words sandbox game was used to describe it. Now people think thats sandbox when only a % of it was. SWG also had themepark mechanics. Same with any game that has a % of sandbox elements. So the play base start saying this is a sandbox game and it becomes something different for each player, when in fact sandbox is not the game but an idea that comes down to one thing. A player can build, change, some part of the game, be it PvP, char development, skills or world. When you have the freedom to create something different with a set of tools you have been given by the developer you now have something sandbox. 

EQN will not be pure sandbox. Structured classes and skills, quests written the same for everyone or classes or a world you cant change. Its rare to find a game thats 100% pure sandbox. EQN at best will be a % of sandbox, question is what parts of the game will players have creative control over?

Wurm Online is a full sandbox game, EQN is not so already Smed has made a booboo and is setting himself up for flack.

He should of said Sandpark or Hybrid like ArcheAge and Age Of Wulin.

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  nothuman24

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/21/13
Posts: 40

6/26/13 9:21:54 AM#359

The way i see it:

 

-Target non-competitive pve'ers. Get them to stick around by adding a few cutting edge game components for end-game, that differ from the other end-less supply of pve centered mmos to maximize end-game player interest. Add a few pvp servers to maximize profit = Strong initial profit / profitable short-term.

 

-Target competitive pvpers and create one of a few good vast sandbox games centered around pvp = Strong long-term playerbase and image as developer / profitable long-term.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

 

  SavageHorizon

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 1562

6/26/13 9:26:54 AM#360
Originally posted by nothuman24

The way i see it:

 

-Target non-competitive pve'ers. Get them to stick around by adding a few cutting edge game components for end-game, that differ from the other end-less supply of pve centered mmos to maximize end-game player interest. Add a few pvp servers to maximize profit = Strong initial profit / profitable short-term.

 Don't think you understand lol, EQ already has vast amount of PVE's, they will play anything that has EQ all over it.

-Target competitive pvpers and create one of a few good vast sandbox games centered around pvp = Strong long-term playerbase and image as developer / profitable long-term.

 

Thoughts?

EQN centered around PVP, no thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

EQN would still thrive if there were no PVPers but EQ has always or nearly always had some form of PVP. PVP servers but don't have the game built around PVP which i really don't think it will be.

 

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