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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Where's the self satisfaction come from all these "Insta-Win"-No-Penalty-For-Death games now?

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113 posts found
  VengeSunsoar

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4767

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

6/25/13 2:35:32 AM#41
I'm ok with that.  Going to bed now. :)

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  GroovyFlower

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/11
Posts: 1252

Skyrim

6/25/13 2:49:24 AM#42
Originally posted by zaxtor99

Okay, first off I dislike griefers as much as any other player.

What I do want is a well-designed AAA mmo title built today that gives us something similar to pre-trammel Ultima Online or Asheron's Call on the Darktide server back in the day. Where players who want to player kill another player risk a bounty on their head or turning red and not being given the luxury of being able to enter towns any longer.

Look at the mainstream mmo games today...

Warrior tough guy foolishly enters a higher level instant dungeon all alone and gets killed within seconds. So he goes and buys a CASH pay-to-win sword and armor and re-enters without leveling up or finding a buddy to help out. Dead again. Rinse and repeat 14 times. The guy is being utterly foolish and using no skill what so ever, no strategy in the constantly spamming the same hot bar spell/attack button over and over.

There is really no way he can survive this instanced dungeon alone unless he levels up or gets help because there really is no skill involved period. But he foolishly re-enters this instance 14 times in a row.

Where is the penalty for being stupid or making a mistake??

Most games today will give this goof ball some experience for failure as well. So eventually he will gain a level and by mashing the same hot bar button 100 times, he will WIN! YAY!

..But my question is Where is the self-satisfaction in THIS??

Not to mention, nobody wants to experience the world built for them anymore. Nobody reads the lore, the quests, or takes time to appreciate the attention to detail in the beautifully designed graphics, the flowing river, or the 100 foot waterfall in the distance. Nobody appreciates the puffy and realistic looking clouds. Its just this silly mentality to "WIN NOW, GET GET GET ME ME ME MORE MORE MORE"

I just don't get it. I haven't understood this for years.

Lets take a popular multi-player game on the consoles to compare. With the consoles, at least people are playing online shooter games and using real skill and fast reflexes to try and out skill, out think, and out-wit other players to win. - I can get this and appreciate it.

So in comparison, where does any self satisfaction come from in these way too easy, never lose anything mmo games? Why even play if there is never a penalty (besides minor exp loss or time) for being stupid or making a dumb mistake?

See, real satisfaction comes from knowing you survived something that was actually a challenge. And with that comes other players. No matter how advanced they might make the AI of mobs in an mmo, it will never be anywhere close to what other players can present.

No death consequence games with no PvP can't possibly offer the racing heart excitement that came with games like Ultima Online back in the late 1990s. By comparison look at most WoW players today. They sit back in their big desk chair and are half asleep, bored to death just mashing the same hot bar keys over and over... Never any real excitment. Nothing to make anyone sweat, or to make their heart beat faster. How is this FUN?!?!

I'd love to have a real conversation and honesty from you players that say you hate PvP games. Have you EVER felt your heart race with excitement in a game without PvP? Yes I know some of these games offer PvP in zones, but even that is just who has the best gear and who mashes the hot bar buttons fastest. The fireballs hit the other player regardless of their movement. There is no way to really dodge, or out manuever the other player. It's stats vs stats, period. The outcome is already per-decided. The same two players fight 100 times, the same player will will 99 or 100 times out of 100 unless some stats change to change that outcome. There just is no skill involved, or sure, a little maybe. Something stupid low like 5% skill and 95% stat based outcomes. Hell rolling dice would be more entertaining because at least then you'd have some level of surprise.

Yes, the graphics are prettier in Rift then they are in Asheron's Call or Ultima Online. I get that! But the depth of the games now is like a front yard mud hole filled with rain water compared to the Pacific ocean when compared against mmo's from 15 years ago, the mmos that paved the way for all these pretty, shiny things we have today.

What's sadder is when anyone even suggests or says that hope a new AAA game offers some PvP with death consequence, that person instantly gets 100 people crying and screaming NOOOO!!! WAAAA!! - like it would be a crime to actually have an all new TRIPLE A MMO TITLE made today that gave us what pre-Trammel Ultima Online offered back in the day. It's like they just want yet another Rift, World of Warcraft, or other overly simple, overly streamlined for the masses mmo. Because the 500 of those now isn't enough. This is what baffles me even more. And if you don't believe what I say in this paragraph just take a look at the few threads where someone 'hoped' Everquest Next would offer some level of challenging PvP in the EQ Next forums.

Anyhow, just my two copper.

 

- Zaxx

Only interested in purist form so i play DayZ.

 

Ive played 11years ago Asherons call 2 Darktide and had awesome time we had griefers but they where delt with swiftly by ANTI clans hunt down the evil ones.

I played Darkfall1  2.5 years was also great for while but was already to much infected with whiners and cheaters/hackers/exploiters i quit eventually it was one big macro game whole clans macro in there towns no fun anymore.

DayZ on the other hand have no numbers stats skills lvls xp your just dropped in the game on the beach with NOTHING(i play on hardcore server) and you have to try survive. Scaviging towns for food/water/medicine and weapons to survive.

What game give FREE FOR ALL FULL LOOT PERMADEATH where you been dropped in the game hoping to find a axe/crowbar or machete to survive zombies and players.

DayZ also have its bad apples like hackers but lately there not so rampart and massive as 6 months ago servers are rather good now.

Griefers also but its harsly met with own death and lose all so most who cant take it eather leave or try adept and survive.

DayZ standalone soon being released with servers that can handle 200players.

No instance no seperate zones or any loading screens.

No lvls xp stats skills or armor.

PURE SURVIVAL and its sandbox you can build alot or detroy alot it gets a rather deep crafting system also.

DayZ is HARDCORE but only free for all full loot permadeath game worth playing.

DayZ must be played on hardcore server only so no ezmode(origin) thats for the weak.

 

  GroovyFlower

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/11
Posts: 1252

Skyrim

6/25/13 2:53:26 AM#43
Originally posted by zaxtor99

 


Originally posted by Divona
I don't find having heart beat fast and sweat from thrill is fun, to be honest. It's just too much after come back from work. I enjoy playing game just to relax, and PvP does not give me ability to do that.

 

My satisfaction is from doing small things that added up to a bigger things. Collecting new costume for the character, housing items, exploring new areas, crafting items for people in need. At the end I find that I made someone else happy, instead of throw their headphone away, smashing their keyboard and start yell out at the screen like a mad sailor.


 


And see that's just the thing Divona. I can get that! And respect that. See, in the old school Ultima Online, you could do that. You could take the safety of town and chat with tons of other players and collect materials and be a highly respected blacksmith or tailor that many players looked for to buy their gear. Those player did the PvP battles and took the risks of dangerous dungeons for loot and paid those blacksmiths well. And those blacksmiths and tailors and carpenters in town took great pride in being able to provide other more adventure-thrill seeking players their needed supplies and gear.

There was a nice balance in old school UO. You didn't have to really risk much, but you did have to play smart and use your head. Even a smith or scroll maker could take pride in their work done and get rich with gold taking the safety of less risky professions.

I dunno, maybe I'm just too old and don't appreciate all the automation and simplicity of these newer, more popular games.


- Zaxx

DayZ pure thrill hardcore pvp

TRY IT!

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 5975

6/25/13 2:59:42 AM#44
Originally posted by GroovyFlower
Originally posted by zaxtor99

 


Originally posted by Divona
I don't find having heart beat fast and sweat from thrill is fun, to be honest. It's just too much after come back from work. I enjoy playing game just to relax, and PvP does not give me ability to do that.

 

My satisfaction is from doing small things that added up to a bigger things. Collecting new costume for the character, housing items, exploring new areas, crafting items for people in need. At the end I find that I made someone else happy, instead of throw their headphone away, smashing their keyboard and start yell out at the screen like a mad sailor.


 


And see that's just the thing Divona. I can get that! And respect that. See, in the old school Ultima Online, you could do that. You could take the safety of town and chat with tons of other players and collect materials and be a highly respected blacksmith or tailor that many players looked for to buy their gear. Those player did the PvP battles and took the risks of dangerous dungeons for loot and paid those blacksmiths well. And those blacksmiths and tailors and carpenters in town took great pride in being able to provide other more adventure-thrill seeking players their needed supplies and gear.

There was a nice balance in old school UO. You didn't have to really risk much, but you did have to play smart and use your head. Even a smith or scroll maker could take pride in their work done and get rich with gold taking the safety of less risky professions.

I dunno, maybe I'm just too old and don't appreciate all the automation and simplicity of these newer, more popular games.


- Zaxx

DayZ pure thrill hardcore pvp

TRY IT!

That game died for a reason 

  GroovyFlower

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/11
Posts: 1252

Skyrim

6/25/13 3:01:00 AM#45
Originally posted by DMKano

There are many (I'd say majority) of gamers who only play in very short bursts several times a week. They fire up a game and want instant fun for 20-30min.

A lot of us veteran gamers are used to deep and MMORPGs that take 100s (1000s) of hours to achieve things - we are a minority.

So nothing wrong with games that cater to a specific gamer. Many of my friends can't stand MMORPG, they dont want to spend any time to learn about class systems or skills, they get overwhelmed by hot bars, skill trees, and the idea that it takes 100s of hours to progress - they don't have the desire to devote that much time to a game.

So for them there are 100s of actions games like CoD, PS2, Defiance - designed to be played in very small time increments.

Nothing wrong with this - find a game that suits your needs.

I personally play a game depending on my mood, if I want something quick - Defiance, if I am going to spend several hours - EQ1, Rift.

open world PvP - AoC

Etc.....

There is so much choice, we are in the golden age of gaming.

 

But when a game is released for hardcore still majority who bought game start whining game is to hard lol.

Thats problem these days i think even most hardcore are not hardcore anymore and go with flow.

Look at Darkfall UW its a joke now compare to first 6 months of DFO 1.

I think only small fraction of players that can handle hardcore pvp.

Thats why i play DayZ its in its purists form FFA PVP FULL LOOT and permadeath.

  zaxtor99

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/31/03
Posts: 1791

 
OP  6/25/13 3:01:36 AM#46

Absolutely agree Groovyflower.

Dayz, while certainly lacking the polish of a AAA title is a very good game, and offers HUGE risk vs reward in the fact that if you die, you must start completely over again from zero.

And with the popularity of games like Dayz, I find it fascinating that mmo games today lack so little risk vs reward or meaningful PvP. I know that so many are just trying to leech off of the success of World of Warcraft but the mmo genre has been stagnant for far too many years now with too few AAA titles with good risk vs reward implemented.

It's about time a competent and able and financially strong company takes a RISK themselves to give us a big budget old school style mmo with modern graphics. I think the reward for them could be MUCH BIGGER then many believe, especially looking at the success of very high risk vs reward pvp mods like Dayz.

Please don't anyone get me wrong. I have a lot of respect for Blizzard and the World of Warcraft game. WoW was/is a brilliant game, and while it does have depth to it, it's just not the kind of depth I'm talking about or want.

Imagine a triple A mmo based on the apocalypse with zombies like Dayz. But thousands of players on a server instead of 20. Imagine groups of people trying to survive and perhaps a deep crafting system and PvP skill required. An mmo like that with the polish of a game like Guild Wars 2 but meaningful PvP and deep risk vs reward mechanics would likely succeed though the roof!

- So where is, and who is the company willing to stop making clones of WoW and take a RISK at something new in the mmo genre today?

- Zaxx

  zaxtor99

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/31/03
Posts: 1791

 
OP  6/25/13 3:04:02 AM#47


Originally posted by MMOExposed
That game died for a reason 

HaHaHaHa.

Dayz is dead? You SURE about that?

Wait until the stand-alone Dayz launches before you speak such foolish words my friend.

Dayz is FAR from dead.


- Zaxx

  GroovyFlower

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/11
Posts: 1252

Skyrim

6/25/13 3:06:25 AM#48
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by GroovyFlower
Originally posted by zaxtor99

 


Originally posted by Divona
I don't find having heart beat fast and sweat from thrill is fun, to be honest. It's just too much after come back from work. I enjoy playing game just to relax, and PvP does not give me ability to do that.

 

My satisfaction is from doing small things that added up to a bigger things. Collecting new costume for the character, housing items, exploring new areas, crafting items for people in need. At the end I find that I made someone else happy, instead of throw their headphone away, smashing their keyboard and start yell out at the screen like a mad sailor.


 


And see that's just the thing Divona. I can get that! And respect that. See, in the old school Ultima Online, you could do that. You could take the safety of town and chat with tons of other players and collect materials and be a highly respected blacksmith or tailor that many players looked for to buy their gear. Those player did the PvP battles and took the risks of dangerous dungeons for loot and paid those blacksmiths well. And those blacksmiths and tailors and carpenters in town took great pride in being able to provide other more adventure-thrill seeking players their needed supplies and gear.

There was a nice balance in old school UO. You didn't have to really risk much, but you did have to play smart and use your head. Even a smith or scroll maker could take pride in their work done and get rich with gold taking the safety of less risky professions.

I dunno, maybe I'm just too old and don't appreciate all the automation and simplicity of these newer, more popular games.


- Zaxx

DayZ pure thrill hardcore pvp

TRY IT!

That game died for a reason 

Died?

Im playing on server EVERYDAY and its packed and in my server list i see also other servers packed even some have 70/70.

Hundreds(maybe thousend servers) of servers still up everyday.

1.7 million bought ARMA2 only for DayZ.

Its ALIVE and kicking my friend.

  Wicoa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/08/07
Posts: 1613

6/25/13 3:20:40 AM#49
You want a patient mans game! EvE Online and FFXARR coming up.
  zymurgeist

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/24/04
Posts: 5185

6/25/13 6:12:23 AM#50
Originally posted by zaxtor99

 


Originally posted by zymurgeist
A blacksmith has to have good enough gear. He has to mash the same metal with a hammer over and over and over. If you believe that's not a skill I urge you to try it some time. No skill is difficult once you've properly learned it.

 

That isn't SKILL. When I say skill, I mean your skill as a player, not a characters blacksmith skill or their sorcery skill, lol.

Mindlessly mashing the same two hot bars while eating a greasy fast food burger might be fun, I dunno, but it's not "skill". Not to mention most of these mmo games today require almost zero thought process. Before you get upset, think about it. Most mmo games today show you a COLOR CODE of the danger to your character a mobs presents. You know you will always own yellow and blue and green colored mobs and you just mindless attack those mobs until they are all dead. Oh wait, you do gotta watch your power bar or your stamina and stop and rest for 5 seconds sometimes. Wow. Deep skills and insane thought required. LoL.

When I say SKILL... watch the linked YouTube video I found of a player playing Asheron's Call a couple of months ago. Watch not only his precision timed fingers movements over many keys, but also his ability to dodge out of the way of bolt spells cast at him. He has to pay careful attention to many things at once on the screen, time his attacks correctly, and think ahead of his opponent to win. It's not just mashing hot bar keys over and over and over while eating chips and his gear stats vs his opponents gear stats. With skill, he could take out a MUCH higher level character with much better gear if he can out think, out wit, and out maneuver him.


This is an mmo where actual SKILL and THOUGHT is required.

If you watched that video, I think you MIGHT see the difference between that and a game like WoW or Rift. If you can't see the difference and want to continue to argue how games like WOW require soooo much skill, then there is really nothing further I can say.


- Zaxx

Who's  talking about crafting? AC may be slightly more complicated but the skills are the same. It's all just mashing buttons in sequences and timing. It's no more difficult than typing.

"Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  Vannor

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/11/03
Posts: 2995

6/25/13 6:18:14 AM#51
Winning and not dying?
  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

6/25/13 7:07:54 AM#52
Originally posted by zaxtor99

So in comparison, where does any self satisfaction come from in these way too easy, never lose anything mmo games?

- Zaxx

When pursuing the LK server first (pre-nerf), the raid probably wiped 30 or 40 times. You don't even want to know how many wipes were involved in the hardmode LK.

Each wipe involves substantial reset, re-consume, and buff time, and considerable keep-the-spirits-up temper control of the various raiders. Keeping a raid motivated though several nights of wipes is a non-trivial problem.

Plenty of reasons for cheers to break out on vent when we finally got it.

 

There's lots of ways to find challenge in any system, if challenge is what you actually seek, and if you look for it.

Yes, there are considerable numbers of players who aren't Type-As, and don't simply do not value the same things you do. But without the lower 98%, the two-percenters wouldn't have anyone to look down on, right?

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Divona

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/02/11
Posts: 164

6/25/13 7:40:17 AM#53

Hey, I dig some research on penalty and found a good article about this on this site from 2009:

"You're basically talking about death penalties from PvP, and things like that just encourage gank squads. I'd rather not be forced to group up with a bunch kids or jerks in a game. If you're going to claim losing gear is realistic or that it gives death a meaning, well then why don't you ask for death to be permanent. Now that's a death penalty I'd advocate for, because then people will start showing a little more respect and manners to people, and not hide behind anonymity so much. If there isn't permanent death, then there might as well be no death penalty, because they just aren't fun any other way."

"The harsher death penalties can be gotten around by resourceful players, [...] and so it can be argued that the mechanic really only tends to penalize those who aren’t as resourceful. When you’re a developer chasing customers who have potentially never touched an MMOG before, that is indeed “bad for business” [...]"

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/staffblog/102009/4951_Community-Spotlight-The-Decline-of-the-Death-Penalty

My thought is that to be resourceful, you will require to spend time to collect such resources, and most game does not make collect those resources fun enough for newcomer to continue playing the game past the point of collecting the resources. I feel the same pain from mining and scavenging in EVE Online and Darkfall, so I can have the tools to get to the fun part.

However, I find collecting resources fun when I have a whole group doing it with. Maybe the problem is not just lying in penalty, but because the player now are less social to make an effort to join group and go through these grind together, which made the company make the game which no penalty, solo-able, to catering to the messes instead.

Also, you should check out the comments in that thread. That should add in quite a lot to this thread about what people already been saying on this topic.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10550

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

6/25/13 7:44:59 AM#54


Originally posted by zaxtor99

Originally posted by Axehilt
 The win isn't automatic -- you need to be skilled to beat a challenge.  The win isn't instant -- you need to be skilled for a duration  

Really? You need to be SKILLED huh?

...Let's not mistake "skill" for having good enough GEAR and mashing the same one or to hot bar spells/attacks over and over and over. (Which defines most mmos today)


- Zaxx





How is this different from how MMORPGs have always been? Overcoming a horrible UI isn't skill. Having patience isn't skill either. MMORPGs have never taken skill. They take varying degrees of patience depending on which one you're playing.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Theocritus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3613

6/25/13 7:51:00 AM#55
You have to realize that there was a major shift a few years ago in the player's mindset......MMOs went from harder core games to being viewed as entertainment......They were made to entertain and please the player instead of challenge them.....The sad thing is I dont think that too many MMOs will ever go back to the days when the games were harder.....I think we are going to continue to see Rifts, wows, lotros, and swtors because that is apparently what the people want.....They want easy games that they can play casually and get handed things easily without much hassle....They want to watch as much of the game as play it, almsot like watching a TV show or movie than playing a video game.
  Divona

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/02/11
Posts: 164

6/25/13 7:54:32 AM#56
Originally posted by Theocritus
You have to realize that there was a major shift a few years ago in the player's mindset......MMOs went from harder core games to being viewed as entertainment......They were made to entertain and please the player instead of challenge them.....The sad thing is I dont think that too many MMOs will ever go back to the days when the games were harder.....I think we are going to continue to see Rifts, wows, lotros, and swtors because that is apparently what the people want.....They want easy games that they can play casually and get handed things easily without much hassle....They want to watch as much of the game as play it, almsot like watching a TV show or movie than playing a video game.

Just to add, it's not only MMOs that change. You can see this in recent single-player games as well... except Dark Souls.

  Hellidol

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/14/12
Posts: 364

6/25/13 8:12:59 AM#57

personally I like to have the challenge and it drives me to come back when I die. I like the ability to take on more then one person....real people and have a chance to take them out if they slip up. Games like UO and SB make it so you can use your skill to the max and then some if you choose to. Leveling in 80% of all MMOs puts me to sleep, MOST mmos provide the same story in some form and every now and then you get a different story which is in that case becomes interesting. Theme parks jack it up every single time, wow was one of a kind and the side quest in that game was the 1st that most people have played and enjoyed. Theme parks should do away with side quest all together and focus on one story with multiple paths, they do that and people will enjoy the leveling experience a million times more. Each dungeon should just be a extension or continuation of that story per expiation, you can make it world wide or just per group encounter, how ever the dev's want to design it.

Sandboxes are easy with the leveling experience short and not so detailed but everything after should allow you to mold the world a round you to a degree. Building cities, siege cities, RPKing, nod pvp, and then the occasional (per month)  live Dev GM events. Every type of person is different and for some silly reason people believe that "if you don't think like me or agree with me you are dumb" which in it self is a dumb train of thought. Some people believe in guns for what ever reason and some don't but both think the other one is dumb. Same goes for sandbox and theme park, aggressive and passive, nether is wrong and if uneducated both can be toxic toward each other, it shows on these forums daily.

Bottom line is their are different people with different mentalities when it comes to gaming on a large scale. There is a market for both, 12 years ago people were more aggressive and now since the U.S. has become weak hearted (imo) their are more passives.

  mrrshann618

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/25/12
Posts: 194

6/25/13 8:38:38 AM#58

Average-casual-little-time-to-play gamer here

Do I find insta-win boring, Yup. I do not like to grind, if every battle is a few hits and on to the next without having to rest or take a drink (in game) then it is to easy and I do not feel like I did anything. On the other hand I remember back when playing FFXI and getting to a zone just after making it to level 10. Looking at a mob and I see "easy kill" when I scan it. That mob proceeded to mop the floor with me. So that pushed me to far in the other direction I went from a zone that was able to be played solo/with a friend or two to the next zone needing a full team for "easy" kills. Again no attraction for me felt like I cannot do anything.

 

PvP I do not want to have to deal with all the "fear of gankers" when I simply want to relax. Most games I've been part of have not had any "significant" penalty for those gankers. On the other hand when I played WAR I freely went into the RvR zones as for most of the times there I did not have to worry about Zerg groups, rather I'd come across small warbands and we would have a lovely cat/mouse chase that was often times fun.

 

I'd be all for Permadeath, Yeah it would be annoying, but at the same time it would be just as annoying to those who purposefully ganked lower levels. In other words, the Wild west was not all that Wild as everyone was packing. Conversely it was a rather civil area as there was significant penalties for shooting down people in cold blood.

 

Then again just my thoughts, including that while I've never been a fan of PvP, I'm not against it.

  PsiKahn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/26/12
Posts: 124

6/25/13 8:40:57 AM#59
Perhaps the question isn't as much "why are contemporary games not challenging" but rather "why do a lot of players not find their challenges rewarding?"  As other posters have stated, current MMOs do offer challenging elements, usually in the form of high-level raids and the like, but do the rewards equal the investment?  For some players clearly the answer is yes, the excitement of the gear grab and/or coordinating a complex raid is sufficient.  I for one am not interested in those kinds of rewards so much and enjoy a game a lot more when it's centered around some sort of player world conflict, more sandbox style.  Even something as limited as DAoC's RvR managed to offer a meaningful centerpiece with keep and relics and all, and realm differentiation, which made it all seem like something worth fighting for.  When you were doing PvE content, it felt like it was in service of bettering the realm on some level.  You were gearing up to defend Hibernia or whatever your realm was.  I haven't found this meaningful center in many recent games.
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19496

6/25/13 3:32:07 PM#60
Originally posted by zaxtor99

Warrior tough guy foolishly enters a higher level instant dungeon all alone and gets killed within seconds. So he goes and buys a CASH pay-to-win sword and armor and re-enters without leveling up or finding a buddy to help out. Dead again. Rinse and repeat 14 times. The guy is being utterly foolish and using no skill what so ever, no strategy in the constantly spamming the same hot bar spell/attack button over and over.

There is really no way he can survive this instanced dungeon alone unless he levels up or gets help because there really is no skill involved period. But he foolishly re-enters this instance 14 times in a row.

Where is the penalty for being stupid or making a mistake??

What "insta-win"? If he dies 14 times, it is not instance win, it is a challenge. The penalty? Waste of his time.

Sounds like it work well enough for me.

Not unlike wow raids. If you don't think wiping again and again is a penalty, just ask those who rage-quit, or rant out their guildies because of wipes.

 

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