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Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn 

General Discussion  » PVP compiled Info

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56 posts found
  aionix

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/14/07
Posts: 296

6/24/13 7:05:42 PM#21
Separate PvP and PvE skills.  Finally someone with a freaking brain.  All hail based Yoshi-P.
  DamonVile

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 3644

6/24/13 7:09:07 PM#22
Originally posted by aionix
Separate PvP and PvE skills.  Finally someone with a freaking brain.  All hail based Yoshi-P.

While I support doing this, it really only works for instance pvp. If you have world pvp this type of thing doesn't really work well.

People are like cats. When they die, you get a new one.

  skyexile

Novice Member

Joined: 8/14/07
Posts: 701

6/24/13 7:17:15 PM#23


Originally posted by redcloud16

Originally posted by svann

Originally posted by ZenTaoYingYang

Originally posted by svann Im wondering how they will balance frontline, considering that the starting city states are dependent on class.
you can only enroll in the grand companies at Level 20. and so you have the luxury to choose any of them. I would say more but it will spoil the storyline.   Also Yoshida was ranked 1st in a tournament for  DOAC or DOTA not sure. hardcore PVPer, so I still believe he will develop a good system. 
Do they have a means to avoid everyone choosing the same team?
the three companies, at least in 1.0, were pretty well represented. It mostly boils down to personal preference, which characters you like more, which city is your favorite, what colors you prefer. 

 

I don't why they'd be massively imbalanced. 

 

But there is also the feature where you can undergo some quests to switch your Grand Company later so...


do you keep your rep when doing this or have to startover?

i presume it would be a good idea for our guild to pick the same grand company?

SKYeXile
TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.

  ElRenmazuo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/28/06
Posts: 3458

6/24/13 7:51:18 PM#24
the pvp gear looks more badass than the artifact armor
  MagikrorriM

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/14/10
Posts: 149

6/25/13 2:47:31 AM#25

Kuppa I wouldn't be so quick to judge, if I were you. To date Yoshi-P has been teasing us little by little, it could very well be he is saving the best for last. Which is a good thing, if they nail PvP, we're in for one hell of a game. Not only is he a hardcaore PvPer but the people designing the PvP have also PvPed with him.

Each test has been more impressive than the last, and I can't help but feel like he's saying wait until you see what I do next. With that kind of mindset, I have no doubt, that it's the very thing that will keep people coming back for more. He's keeping PvP very hush hush, right until the end.

With both solid PvE and solid PvP, you can't loose.

  ZenTaoYingYang

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/23/13
Posts: 224

 
OP  6/25/13 8:38:26 AM#26

updated the pictures with Leo armor.

 

too many quotes to reply to, but here are some points of clarification:

 

1. There will be 2 elements of PVP, one which is an instance 4v4 will be there in phase 4 of this Beta, the other front lines which is RvRvR will be in patch 2.3 which is further down the road after release that is 2.0.

so for the argument that they are trying to implement PVP into the game late, its far from truth, they have been developing PVP side of the game as soon as ARR project started. you can notice even the maps have the locations ready, and even the character stats shows PVP DMG  reduction stats etc.

2.  the separation of PVE and PVP skills is a good thing even outside of instances, as the info released, we will have one or more PVP zone, but to complete the formula, the armory system in place gives you the ability to hit 1 click and your whole keybind and gear changes to PVP gear/skills. so I don't think its bad outside the instances.

 

3. I am still worried on grand companies issue being imbalanced, as one said players will just switch over the winining team. and i completely agree, I wonder how will they resolve this issue and what sort of conditions they will put to control it.

 

Finally, I know it might be funny to look for good PVP system in PVE centric game, but part of me want this part to succeed so that I can finally settle in this MMO for the longer term, as they  got an awesome Dev team that are pro-actively engaging with community ( hello witcher ) which is rare to find in an MMO market right now.

 

  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3442

The problem with censorship is ********

6/25/13 9:49:00 AM#27
Originally posted by jskeets916
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by jskeets916
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by jskeets916
Originally posted by Kuppa
I REALLY hoped they didn't do pvp. It's going to be a half assed approach because they focus on pve much more.

I guess if your the instant gratification short term judge a book by its cover type than yes.

However, logically speaking what example can you provide of quality pvp in an MMO that the dev team didn't start with PvE first?

I'll help you out, depending on your cup of tea WoW, GW2, FFXI, SWTOR, pretty much any big name big budget themepark MMO that i can recall with any sort of appealing pvp system focused on PvE first naturally since they are a business and not a Kuppa opinion pleasing firm.

Really tired of people comparing apples and oranges.

Just because a themepark MMO is PvE centric does NOT mean devs should just ignore spicing things up and developing pvp, especially since P2P models are contingent upon long-term development projects and content.

Most mmos(almost all) have pvp tacked on, this is a pretty easy assumption to make since there aren't any big pvp tournaments that use mmo pvp. There are a handful though that have pvp permeated throughout the design of the game. You can see that in GW2 and DAOC. You definitely do not see that on FFXVI. Even looking back at FFXI their focus has never been pvp, they emphasize their pve experience. When they end up tacking on pvp they just create a lousy pvp experience and affect pve in the process.

If you are one of those that don't care how good the pvp is then I can see why you won't care.

You actually make a great point and I would agree with the notion that from what we've seen pvp is not permeated throughout the design of the game to that of the emphasis of GW1/2 and DAOC, however we have yet to even see the beta testing of ARR's pvp to make such a claim that it will be half assed.

Keep in mind WoW's arenas at their height of their popularity > DAOC or GW.  I didn't even play WoW really, and i'm not stating that it was more quality, but it was clearly appealing to a successful mass of people so lets at least give them a shot.

This game's development philosophy is more akin to WoW's than DAOC or GW, so at least give it a similar window, remember arena's in WoW came long after initial launch, and it seems they already have more dynamic pvp such as frontlines at least in the pipeline.

They haven't released info on pvp that is much relevant yet and haven't shown it. The release is in two months, if pvp was core part of the design it would have been easily noticeable at this point. But, like you mention we don't know. They might pull a rabbit out of the hat when release comes around but I highly doubt it.

 

WoW's pvp was popular not because it was particularly good but because there were TONS of ppl playing the game. You don't think back to WoW and say man that was a good pvp game. GW, DAOC are games built from the ground up with pvp in mind. I don't believe FF is the same and like all the other mmo games the overall quality will suffer for it. I also highly doubt this game will ever be as popular as WoW.

So your argument is that since its not been revealed as a mainstay in the initial core design > PvE, that games such as GW2 or DAOC with it in mind thus have greater pvp?

That's incredibly subjective as well since you assume your opinion as to what constitutes greater pvp is > than that of an EXPONENTIALLY larger population such as those who played WoW's arena pvp.

I'm sorry but how is GW2 and DAOC's pvp doing today?  Oh i'll tell you one went under and the other i just queued for a tournament 2 hours ago, it took 15 minutes to pop and we went against a premade but did well, 500-432.  You can't crown an MMO king of pvp just because it was designed initially for it, especially when both have been a failure and GW2 caters to its WvW and PvE crowd more than they initially planned.

Yes this game prolly won't have WoW numbers, but it's obvious as a subscription game to follow a similar development path in which PvP will be more integrated after it's initial launch. 

 

 

This is not my personal opinion only. DAOC is know for it's pvp, this game is extremely old as well. GW2 has great potential and if you followed pvp communities you would know that it's not without reason that they are a strong candidate for MLG even with a super lower population than WoW.

 

BTW DAOC and GW2's pvp are good for different reasons, one arena the other is open world. Now DAOC was a failure? haha ok...


  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3442

The problem with censorship is ********

6/25/13 9:50:44 AM#28
Originally posted by MagikrorriM

Kuppa I wouldn't be so quick to judge, if I were you. To date Yoshi-P has been teasing us little by little, it could very well be he is saving the best for last. Which is a good thing, if they nail PvP, we're in for one hell of a game. Not only is he a hardcaore PvPer but the people designing the PvP have also PvPed with him.

Each test has been more impressive than the last, and I can't help but feel like he's saying wait until you see what I do next. With that kind of mindset, I have no doubt, that it's the very thing that will keep people coming back for more. He's keeping PvP very hush hush, right until the end.

With both solid PvE and solid PvP, you can't loose.

Yes, we will see what it is store. But I find it hard to believe it will be better than most pvp in mmos out there. BTW the idea of separating skills for pve and pvp is a good one as well as normalizing gear.


  Shadanwolf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/10
Posts: 1851

6/25/13 11:06:14 PM#29
DAOC suffers from "cross realming".....people switching to the stronger/winning side.One can only hope they make it impossible or near impossible to change faction in Final Fantasy.
  Maik36

Novice Member

Joined: 6/24/13
Posts: 51

6/26/13 6:43:15 AM#30
I don't think anyone expects PVP in this game to be better than a MMO designed around PVP. We can only hope that it's good enough as a side-game kind of thing, which it's turning out to be. But then again we may all be surprised.
  Shadanwolf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/10
Posts: 1851

6/26/13 7:50:58 AM#31
Was faction vs faction conflict a significant part of earlier Final Fantasy games....or is this a new addition to how they design games ?
  drivendawn

Elite Member

Joined: 4/17/11
Posts: 782

6/26/13 12:22:53 PM#32
Originally posted by Shadanwolf
Was faction vs faction conflict a significant part of earlier Final Fantasy games....or is this a new addition to how they design games ?

New, however as said Yoshi was a huge hardcore pvp player on DAOC. Infact one of the top pvp players on the game, so I'm looking forward to seeing how his crew implements this part of the game.

  Shadanwolf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/10
Posts: 1851

6/26/13 12:35:53 PM#33
Originally posted by drivendawn
Originally posted by Shadanwolf
Was faction vs faction conflict a significant part of earlier Final Fantasy games....or is this a new addition to how they design games ?

New, however as said Yoshi was a huge hardcore pvp player on DAOC. Infact one of the top pvp players on the game, so I'm looking forward to seeing how his crew implements this part of the game.

I'm always chasing rainbows hoping the next game will have something close to the best faction conflict ever made...DAOC.

The latest....GW2  and before that RIFT......and before that WAR  and before that..............................................

Hopefully we'll find our pot o gold in the form of  world class faction conflict in FINAL FANTASY XIV

  drivendawn

Elite Member

Joined: 4/17/11
Posts: 782

6/26/13 5:54:23 PM#34
Originally posted by Shadanwolf
Originally posted by drivendawn
Originally posted by Shadanwolf
Was faction vs faction conflict a significant part of earlier Final Fantasy games....or is this a new addition to how they design games ?

New, however as said Yoshi was a huge hardcore pvp player on DAOC. Infact one of the top pvp players on the game, so I'm looking forward to seeing how his crew implements this part of the game.

I'm always chasing rainbows hoping the next game will have something close to the best faction conflict ever made...DAOC.

The latest....GW2  and before that RIFT......and before that WAR  and before that..............................................

Hopefully we'll find our pot o gold in the form of  world class faction conflict in FINAL FANTASY XIV

Here's to hope, lifts a mug of Sam Adams summer ale.

  ElRenmazuo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/28/06
Posts: 3458

6/26/13 6:16:07 PM#35
Originally posted by Shadanwolf
Was faction vs faction conflict a significant part of earlier Final Fantasy games....or is this a new addition to how they design games ?

Some of them had factions as part of the story

FF6 - Returners (Rebel Group) vs The Gestahlian Empire, then story changed to the whole world vs Kefka (Main Villain)

FF7 - Avalanche (Rebel Group) vs The Shinra Corporation, then story changed to whole world vs Sephiroth (Main Villain)

FF Tactics - A regent is needed to rule in place of the prince, and the kingdom is split between Prince Goltana, represented by the Black Lion, and Prince Larg, symbolized by the White Lion. The conflict leads to what is known in the game as the Lion War.  But later your faced with a much greater threat for the whole world.

FF12 - Has 3 nations in conflict with each other

In the end all of them were about saving the whole world from a great threat than the opposing factions.

  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3442

The problem with censorship is ********

6/27/13 9:47:39 AM#36
Originally posted by tkreep
Originally posted by Shadanwolf
Was faction vs faction conflict a significant part of earlier Final Fantasy games....or is this a new addition to how they design games ?

Some of them had factions as part of the story

FF6 - Returners (Rebel Group) vs The Gestahlian Empire, then story changed to the whole world vs Kefka (Main Villain)

FF7 - Avalanche (Rebel Group) vs The Shinra Corporation, then story changed to whole world vs Sephiroth (Main Villain)

FF Tactics - A regent is needed to rule in place of the prince, and the kingdom is split between Prince Goltana, represented by the Black Lion, and Prince Larg, symbolized by the White Lion. The conflict leads to what is known in the game as the Lion War.  But later your faced with a much greater threat for the whole world.

FF12 - Has 3 nations in conflict with each other

In the end all of them were about saving the whole world from a great threat than the opposing factions.

There would be a ton of games that would count for that criteria. I think his question maybe more directed toward actual faction vs faction pvp.


  Naqaj

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/24/09
Posts: 1672

6/27/13 10:11:39 AM#37
Originally posted by drivendawn
Originally posted by Shadanwolf

I'm always chasing rainbows hoping the next game will have something close to the best faction conflict ever made...DAOC.

The latest....GW2  and before that RIFT......and before that WAR  and before that..............................................

Hopefully we'll find our pot o gold in the form of  world class faction conflict in FINAL FANTASY XIV

Here's to hope, lifts a mug of Sam Adams summer ale.

And the 3-fact-PVP-challengers keep coming: ESO, Camelot Unchained ... 

  ZenTaoYingYang

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/23/13
Posts: 224

 
OP  6/27/13 2:13:34 PM#38
Originally posted by Naqaj
Originally posted by drivendawn
Originally posted by Shadanwolf

I'm always chasing rainbows hoping the next game will have something close to the best faction conflict ever made...DAOC.

The latest....GW2  and before that RIFT......and before that WAR  and before that..............................................

Hopefully we'll find our pot o gold in the form of  world class faction conflict in FINAL FANTASY XIV

Here's to hope, lifts a mug of Sam Adams summer ale.

And the 3-fact-PVP-challengers keep coming: ESO, Camelot Unchained ... 

it still would not matter to me although I love PVP more than PVE. but I can not stay in a game that offers solid PVP with no solid PVE, it gets boring the same level I get bored with street fighter or call of duty. 

 

For me FFXIV did hit the nail on all the element I want from an MMO, so I am really hoping they get the PVP element correct because it will just means I will be staying with this game a minimum 5 years. ( yea I hate jumping games and creating new charecters over and over)

  Shadanwolf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/10
Posts: 1851

7/07/13 9:09:42 PM#39
Please keep posting to this thread when new FRONTLINE information becomes available.
  svann

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/06/06
Posts: 1629

7/07/13 10:38:11 PM#40
Originally posted by Shadanwolf
DAOC suffers from "cross realming".....people switching to the stronger/winning side.One can only hope they make it impossible or near impossible to change faction in Final Fantasy.

Even if they make it impossible to change faction, typically new players will join the stronger faction.   Unless they have some unimaginable new idea to prevent it.

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